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Post by epicgum on Nov 28, 2018 1:42:37 GMT
I go to a mens meetup called "No more Mr. Nice guy" which mostly features differing degrees of insecurely attached/codependent men who are trying to work on themselves together. (Both AP and avoidant)
The guy who runs the meetup ends it with a creed that goes something like this:
"I go into the world, taking responsibility for my own needs (asking for what i want), and giving freely and without attachment"
I think that it is good advice for any insecurely attached person.
The FA fears that the love given by the AP is not given freely, it is part of a bargian that he can neither accept (because it will end in him being controlled and overwhelmed, forced to give things that he fears he cannot give or will destroy him) nor reject, because it will end in his abandonment. For it to work, the FA needs to believe that the love truly is freely given and for the love ACTUALLY TO BE freely given....at the same time, he needs to take responsibility for his own needs and ask his or her partner for the things (space, closeness etc) that he needs. Over time, with consistency, the FA will begin to trust that he can express needs and meet his partners needs without being overpowered or abandoned....but the drama of the FA/AP dance tend to destroy thst trust.
For the AP, she needs to make clear (and be clear with herself) that her affection is given without threat, while also not suppressing her own needs, which will only lead to resentment.
Both FA and AP need to learn that their needs and concerns are legitimate, and can only be negotiated through a dialog based in love amd trust.
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Post by 8675309 on Nov 28, 2018 3:10:09 GMT
I go to a mens meetup called "No more Mr. Nice guy" which mostly features differing degrees of insecurely attached/codependent men who are trying to work on themselves together. (Both AP and avoidant) The guy who runs the meetup ends it with a creed that goes something like this: "I go into the world, taking responsibility for my own needs (asking for what i want), and giving freely and without attachment" I think that it is good advice for any insecurely attached person. The FA fears that the love given by the AP is not given freely, it is part of a bargian that he can neither accept (because it will end in him being controlled and overwhelmed, forced to give things that he fears he cannot give or will destroy him) nor reject, because it will end in his abandonment. For it to work, the FA needs to believe that the love truly is freely given and for the love ACTUALLY TO BE freely given....at the same time, he needs to take responsibility for his own needs and ask his or her partner for the things (space, closeness etc) that he needs. Over time, with consistency, the FA will begin to trust that he can express needs and meet his partners needs without being overpowered or abandoned....but the drama of the FA/AP dance tend to destroy thst trust. For the AP, she needs to make clear (and be clear with herself) that her affection is given without threat, while also not suppressing her own needs, which will only lead to resentment. Both FA and AP need to learn that their needs and concerns are legitimate, and can only be negotiated through a dialog based in love amd trust. I think thats good advice for anyone! 
It seems for some FAs its not just an AP. Mine didn't believe in me either. I was consistent, calm and genuine for the last year. I gave freely, us secures can, I dont know another way.
I genuinely want good things for him even if Im no part of it. Told him this more than once. he actually didnt even give me a chance to fully give by running. Anything healthy I 'offered' he ran from.
I was probably just boring to him haha. I didn't create that 'chaos' hes used to with the AP dance, I was always nurturing/calm and pulled back when he did.
I still ponder why he keeps coming back as I dont give him what he needs, well I do in a way because I know healthy and 'project' healthy behaviors his way and thats good for him... its his terms of needs in his mind Im not meeting, he thinks the dance is 'normal', I dont dance.
And I know he will be back again...
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 28, 2018 3:54:30 GMT
I go to a mens meetup called "No more Mr. Nice guy" which mostly features differing degrees of insecurely attached/codependent men who are trying to work on themselves together. (Both AP and avoidant) The guy who runs the meetup ends it with a creed that goes something like this: "I go into the world, taking responsibility for my own needs (asking for what i want), and giving freely and without attachment" I think that it is good advice for any insecurely attached person. The FA fears that the love given by the AP is not given freely, it is part of a bargian that he can neither accept (because it will end in him being controlled and overwhelmed, forced to give things that he fears he cannot give or will destroy him) nor reject, because it will end in his abandonment. For it to work, the FA needs to believe that the love truly is freely given and for the love ACTUALLY TO BE freely given....at the same time, he needs to take responsibility for his own needs and ask his or her partner for the things (space, closeness etc) that he needs. Over time, with consistency, the FA will begin to trust that he can express needs and meet his partners needs without being overpowered or abandoned....but the drama of the FA/AP dance tend to destroy thst trust. For the AP, she needs to make clear (and be clear with herself) that her affection is given without threat, while also not suppressing her own needs, which will only lead to resentment. Both FA and AP need to learn that their needs and concerns are legitimate, and can only be negotiated through a dialog based in love amd trust. I think thats good advice for anyone!
It seems for some FAs its not just an AP. Mine didn't believe in me either. I was consistent, calm and genuine for the last year. I gave freely, us secures can, I dont know another way.
I genuinely want good things for him even if Im no part of it. Told him this more than once. he actually didnt even give me a chance to fully give by running. Anything healthy I 'offered' he ran from.
I was probably just boring to him haha. I didn't create that 'chaos' hes used to with the AP dance, I was always nurturing/calm and pulled back when he did.
I still ponder why he keeps coming back as I dont give him what he needs, well I do in a way because I know healthy and 'project' healthy behaviors his way and thats good for him... its his terms of needs in his mind Im not meeting, he thinks the dance is 'normal', I dont dance.
And I know he will be back again...
I think that is the struggle for insecures...not just FAs....APs also don't know how to be in a secure relationship....I keep telling myself I want someone who is consistent...yet, that is not what I am attracted to.....there has to be some level of dance...some level of feeling he is not quite in my reach....I don't know any other way. |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 28, 2018 3:58:22 GMT
I go to a mens meetup called "No more Mr. Nice guy" which mostly features differing degrees of insecurely attached/codependent men who are trying to work on themselves together. (Both AP and avoidant) The guy who runs the meetup ends it with a creed that goes something like this: "I go into the world, taking responsibility for my own needs (asking for what i want), and giving freely and without attachment" I think that it is good advice for any insecurely attached person. The FA fears that the love given by the AP is not given freely, it is part of a bargian that he can neither accept (because it will end in him being controlled and overwhelmed, forced to give things that he fears he cannot give or will destroy him) nor reject, because it will end in his abandonment. For it to work, the FA needs to believe that the love truly is freely given and for the love ACTUALLY TO BE freely given....at the same time, he needs to take responsibility for his own needs and ask his or her partner for the things (space, closeness etc) that he needs. Over time, with consistency, the FA will begin to trust that he can express needs and meet his partners needs without being overpowered or abandoned....but the drama of the FA/AP dance tend to destroy thst trust. For the AP, she needs to make clear (and be clear with herself) that her affection is given without threat, while also not suppressing her own needs, which will only lead to resentment. Both FA and AP need to learn that their needs and concerns are legitimate, and can only be negotiated through a dialog based in love amd trust. I think that FAs have a legitimate fear...I think there is this "sense" that what appears to be freely give, has expectations and desires tied to it. It stinks to admit to that....because that is me. |
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Post by ocarina on Nov 28, 2018 9:33:04 GMT
I go to a mens meetup called "No more Mr. Nice guy" which mostly features differing degrees of insecurely attached/codependent men who are trying to work on themselves together. (Both AP and avoidant) The guy who runs the meetup ends it with a creed that goes something like this: "I go into the world, taking responsibility for my own needs (asking for what i want), and giving freely and without attachment" I think that it is good advice for any insecurely attached person. The FA fears that the love given by the AP is not given freely, it is part of a bargian that he can neither accept (because it will end in him being controlled and overwhelmed, forced to give things that he fears he cannot give or will destroy him) nor reject, because it will end in his abandonment. For it to work, the FA needs to believe that the love truly is freely given and for the love ACTUALLY TO BE freely given....at the same time, he needs to take responsibility for his own needs and ask his or her partner for the things (space, closeness etc) that he needs. Over time, with consistency, the FA will begin to trust that he can express needs and meet his partners needs without being overpowered or abandoned....but the drama of the FA/AP dance tend to destroy thst trust. For the AP, she needs to make clear (and be clear with herself) that her affection is given without threat, while also not suppressing her own needs, which will only lead to resentment. Both FA and AP need to learn that their needs and concerns are legitimate, and can only be negotiated through a dialog based in love amd trust. Good on you epicgum for your insight and willingness to engage with this kind of stuff - you're a rare beast! |
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Post by lilyg on Nov 28, 2018 12:02:23 GMT
I’m just trying to see this from his perspective: he maybe likes you but is afraid of infancy (as so many of us here ultimately are) and commitment. So he says it would be easier if you didn’t and that it makes him nervous because he doesn’t share that degree of feeling with you. Doesn’t mean he isn’t interested just doesn’t “love” you or want to committ to you- nothing wrong with that unless that is what you want- then it doesn’t work for you and that’s ok even though it is maybe sad and painful. You told him you don’t love him. Was this a way to keep the peace or make it easier for him to be with you??. That would make me ask a few things- did she lie to me? Then or now? Either way- can I trust her? Did she flip on me? Why does she now feel differently? What about me isn’t good enough? Why would she tell me that? If someone I’m interested in who loved me now tells me they don’t- that would make me question a lot of things and would hurt- I don’t teally think your attachment style matters although it would probably affect your response to that. A DA I imagine might be able to dust that off more easily since they don’t seem to personalize things. For me it would make the stories in my head run wild but I would not be able to find the courage to confront you about it. I said it hoping to ease the anxiety he felt about me loving him. I thought saying I don't love him would help him to feel relieved. Although at one point he said it did. His actions and words speak completely different volumes. Sounds like my boyfriend before 😊 FA. I managed by stating him that I did love him, and explained that feeling to him, in order to try to voice what terrified him. It usually helped him understand that I cared for him, that I liked the way he is, that I treasured time with him and that I enjoyed getting to know each other better while seeing if we were compatible enough to keep progressing as a couple. It has been bumpy! But we talk a lot now about our feelings and our relationship and I can say honesty helped us open up and trust ourselves and each other. Intimacy is this. Anxiety diminishes after this, for both 🙂. I imagine we'd have ended so much more anxious if we kept denying our feelings. Rewiring for secure is the way to change insecurities attachment. Don't be afraid to scare him. Gently open up and explain what this means to you. Don't let honesty and love become a taboo for you. He and you'll appreciate this approach so much more! 💐 Good luck! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2018 14:00:50 GMT
How do you rewire to being secure?
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Post by alexandra on Dec 11, 2018 19:49:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 23:14:33 GMT
I just have to say, alexandra, you've been such a great help! You're always clear in your writing, and it's done in a way to help AP in moving towards secure, and not in ways that will trigger APness. Thank you! |
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Post by alexandra on Dec 12, 2018 1:07:41 GMT
I just have to say, alexandra, you've been such a great help! You're always clear in your writing, and it's done in a way to help AP in moving towards secure, and not in ways that will trigger APness. Thank you! Well, thank you. Combination of thinking about what would have helped me to hear and knowing what words would have triggered my AP coupled with spending a lot of time IRL trying to figure out how not to trigger an FA. Just want to help create the resources I wish I had to start with! |
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Post by epicgum on Dec 13, 2018 17:41:24 GMT
I can speak only for myself, but in my experience the "I love you" is/was terrifying because I thought the girl was going to become self destructive because i couldn't give her enough, or that she would abandon me because i couldn't give her enough. I can totally see how this would be- it would feel like a lot of pressure to me to be honest. To know they had feelings stronger than me- would I hurt them? Would I disappoint them? especially if I have low self esteem and feel unlovable. I might feel like the bad guy underneath so that while I liked them and wanted to be with them it could be in the background that feeling that I am not giving them what they need while trying to hold on to what I need. This is just me of course. I’m obviously not him and can’t speak for him. I understand why you might have tried to take it back. I have never directly taken the words back but have tried to act more aloof and “chill” after having said way more than I should have as a way to try to smooth it over. That back fired on me. This is my experience. I definitely felt like a bad guy. |
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