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Post by standintheheart on Mar 1, 2019 8:14:29 GMT
Ok, welp, this person who I think to be AP and I are trying to figure out our relationship. I'd love to bullet point it, and see what your impressions are. - Just friends - platonic, supportive, helping each other through separate heartache for 4 months.
- Kissing - For about a month, our occasional cuddle nights become makeout sessions. It becomes clear that being "friends who occasionally make out" leaves me feeling anxious, and consumed with thoughts of her.
- I start to feel that I can't navigate this friendship, and basically tell her I need to either just be platonic friends, or try to step in to a relationship together
- We take a week break to think it over, during which she plunges into a depression and becomes desperate for contact with me, triggering her abandonment issues
- We decide we'd like to be "together" somehow, and are working on what that configuration looks like
- Now - When she texts me, I anxiously think - "Must respond. Must make her laugh. Must assure her I am/we are ok. Must study text and make sure I understand it. Must try to understand her.... etc."
How on earth can I regain some of my security? She's willing to work on this thing with me, so we can stand a chance at creating a fulfilling relationship, and yet I feel unsure what I should even request. Part of what endeared her to me is recognizing a lot of the same AP patterns, and sympathizing. That's part of what made our friendship feel supportive and exciting. It made me feel close to her.
I understand that it will be tricky, but I do want to find a way to have a relationship with her. Any thoughts on how to help soothe each other's anxieties, so I can feel less needy/consumed by her?
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Post by faithopelove on Mar 1, 2019 13:44:28 GMT
Ok, welp, this person who I think to be AP and I are trying to figure out our relationship. I'd love to bullet point it, and see what your impressions are. - Just friends - platonic, supportive, helping each other through separate heartache for 4 months.
- Kissing - For about a month, our occasional cuddle nights become makeout sessions. It becomes clear that being "friends who occasionally make out" leaves me feeling anxious, and consumed with thoughts of her.
- I start to feel that I can't navigate this friendship, and basically tell her I need to either just be platonic friends, or try to step in to a relationship together
- We take a week break to think it over, during which she plunges into a depression and becomes desperate for contact with me, triggering her abandonment issues
- We decide we'd like to be "together" somehow, and are working on what that configuration looks like
- Now - When she texts me, I anxiously think - "Must respond. Must make her laugh. Must assure her I am/we are ok. Must study text and make sure I understand it. Must try to understand her.... etc."
How on earth can I regain some of my security? She's willing to work on this thing with me, so we can stand a chance at creating a fulfilling relationship, and yet I feel unsure what I should even request. Part of what endeared her to me is recognizing a lot of the same AP patterns, and sympathizing. That's part of what made our friendship feel supportive and exciting. It made me feel close to her.
I understand that it will be tricky, but I do want to find a way to have a relationship with her. Any thoughts on how to help soothe each other's anxieties, so I can feel less needy/consumed by her?
Open and honest communication. If she’s not avoidant she may be open to sharing her feelings and not feel threatened doing so.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 15:41:46 GMT
Ok, welp, this person who I think to be AP and I are trying to figure out our relationship. I'd love to bullet point it, and see what your impressions are. - Just friends - platonic, supportive, helping each other through separate heartache for 4 months.
- Kissing - For about a month, our occasional cuddle nights become makeout sessions. It becomes clear that being "friends who occasionally make out" leaves me feeling anxious, and consumed with thoughts of her.
- I start to feel that I can't navigate this friendship, and basically tell her I need to either just be platonic friends, or try to step in to a relationship together
- We take a week break to think it over, during which she plunges into a depression and becomes desperate for contact with me, triggering her abandonment issues
- We decide we'd like to be "together" somehow, and are working on what that configuration looks like
- Now - When she texts me, I anxiously think - "Must respond. Must make her laugh. Must assure her I am/we are ok. Must study text and make sure I understand it. Must try to understand her.... etc."
How on earth can I regain some of my security? She's willing to work on this thing with me, so we can stand a chance at creating a fulfilling relationship, and yet I feel unsure what I should even request. Part of what endeared her to me is recognizing a lot of the same AP patterns, and sympathizing. That's part of what made our friendship feel supportive and exciting. It made me feel close to her.
I understand that it will be tricky, but I do want to find a way to have a relationship with her. Any thoughts on how to help soothe each other's anxieties, so I can feel less needy/consumed by her?
Open and honest communication. If she’s not avoidant she may be open to sharing her feelings and not feel threatened doing so. It's so interesting that you shared this perspective, it sounds like you might be implying that an AP is open to sharing their feelings and wouldn't feel threatened doing so? My experience with AP has been in line with what Jeb describes in this article about the anxious preoccupied attachment type. jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-anxious-preoccupied/There's a bit in there about the difficulty AP's run into in communicating, and it sure rings true to what I've encountered.
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Post by faithopelove on Mar 1, 2019 22:31:00 GMT
Open and honest communication. If she’s not avoidant she may be open to sharing her feelings and not feel threatened doing so. It's so interesting that you shared this perspective, it sounds like you might be implying that an AP is open to sharing their feelings and wouldn't feel threatened doing so? My experience with AP has been in line with what Jeb describes in this article about the anxious preoccupied attachment type. jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-anxious-preoccupied/There's a bit in there about the difficulty AP's run into in communicating, and it sure rings true to what I've encountered. I’ve read all his links before @nullified but no need to take my comment in a negative light. There’s a reason why avoidants are called avoidants. They tend to avoid things. It’s the hallmark of the DA. An AP is high approachability, low avoidance. I’m a 1 on the avoidance scale, for example. AP’s and secures are much more expressive. They crave closeness and intimacy. It’s an AP’s driving force. Not everything I say or an AP says about avoidants should be taken as a personal attack. All insecure types have strengths and weaknesses- DA’s strength does not lie in open communication. My intention in responding to the poster was to encourage her to attempt open and honest communication bc that may be an uphill battle with an avoidant but should be more accepting and less triggering to an AP. Sharing different view points of the attachment styles shouldn’t be a negative thing and no one should have to walk on egg shells when sharing generalities about the types.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2019 22:38:24 GMT
It's so interesting that you shared this perspective, it sounds like you might be implying that an AP is open to sharing their feelings and wouldn't feel threatened doing so? My experience with AP has been in line with what Jeb describes in this article about the anxious preoccupied attachment type. jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-anxious-preoccupied/There's a bit in there about the difficulty AP's run into in communicating, and it sure rings true to what I've encountered. I’ve read all his links before @nullified but no need to take my comment in a negative light. There’s a reason why avoidants are called avoidants. They tend to avoid things. It’s the hallmark of the DA. An AP is high approachability, low avoidance. I’m a 1 on the avoidance scale, for example. AP’s and secures are much more expressive. They crave closeness and intimacy. It’s an AP’s driving force. Not everything I say or an AP says about avoidants should be taken as a personal attack. All insecure types have strengths and weaknesses- DA’s strength does not lie in open communication. My intention in responding to the poster was to encourage her to attempt open and honest communication bc that may be an uphill battle with an avoidant but should be more accepting and less triggering to an AP. Sharing different view points of the attachment styles shouldn’t be a negative thing and no one should have to walk on egg shells when sharing generalities about the types. Oh, I didn't take it in a negative light. I just done see any of the attachment types as good communicators. The article is excellent, in terms of describing what I've witnessed. That's all So I'm not walking on eggshells, not at all. I just don't see things your way and said so, partaking in the discussion.
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Post by faithopelove on Mar 1, 2019 22:44:44 GMT
I’ve read all his links before @nullified but no need to take my comment in a negative light. There’s a reason why avoidants are called avoidants. They tend to avoid things. It’s the hallmark of the DA. An AP is high approachability, low avoidance. I’m a 1 on the avoidance scale, for example. AP’s and secures are much more expressive. They crave closeness and intimacy. It’s an AP’s driving force. Not everything I say or an AP says about avoidants should be taken as a personal attack. All insecure types have strengths and weaknesses- DA’s strength does not lie in open communication. My intention in responding to the poster was to encourage her to attempt open and honest communication bc that may be an uphill battle with an avoidant but should be more accepting and less triggering to an AP. Sharing different view points of the attachment styles shouldn’t be a negative thing and no one should have to walk on egg shells when sharing generalities about the types. Oh, I didn't take it in a negative light. I just done see any of the attachment types as good communicators. The article is excellent, in terms of describing what I've witnessed. That's all So I'm not walking on eggshells, not at all. I just don't see things your way and said so, partaking in the discussion. I didn’t mean you were walking on egg shells - I meant no one should feel that way w a different view. AP’s very much feel that way in many relationships. AP’s may not be the best communicators bc of their fears, but they’re open to talking. It’s a start. No opening, no progress.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 0:10:38 GMT
Oh, I didn't take it in a negative light. I just done see any of the attachment types as good communicators. The article is excellent, in terms of describing what I've witnessed. That's all So I'm not walking on eggshells, not at all. I just don't see things your way and said so, partaking in the discussion. I didn’t mean you were walking on egg shells - I meant no one should feel that way w a different view. AP’s very much feel that way in many relationships. AP’s may not be the best communicators bc of their fears, but they’re open to talking. It’s a start. No opening, no progress. I agree, no one "should" feel like they are walking on eggshells if they present an alternative view. That said, I don't really go for "shoulds", but if someone IS walking on eggshells when presenting an alternative view on a discussion forum, that's probably something to take a look at within themselves. Also, I didn't see any personal attack and didn't respond to one. I responded how I did as part of a discussion about insecure types and communication. Also, the article I included could provide some insight to OP, if they are looking at how to understand the dynamic and their partner a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 1:07:29 GMT
As a self-identified AP, I think there is a desire to share and communication, but a terrible fear that if they do they'll lose everything. so there's alot of psychic tension there. Also, a willingness to communicate is not the same as an ability to communicate!! I always feel like I do, but I find it very hard to put it into words what I'm feeling, then I feel very stupid for being a burden on others because I have feelings that are not conducive to the harmony of the relationship e.g., anger. So there is this willingness to talk, but i think an inability to do so without fearing that I will be seen as a burden/unnecessary and will be punished for having boundaries/feelings. the latter is what makes the communication garbled, particularly for those who are unaware of themselves.
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Post by faithopelove on Mar 2, 2019 1:35:06 GMT
As a self-identified AP, I think there is a desire to share and communication, but a terrible fear that if they do they'll lose everything. so there's alot of psychic tension there. Also, a willingness to communicate is not the same as an ability to communicate!! I always feel like I do, but I find it very hard to put it into words what I'm feeling, then I feel very stupid for being a burden on others because I have feelings that are not conducive to the harmony of the relationship e.g., anger. So there is this willingness to talk, but i think an inability to do so without fearing that I will be seen as a burden/unnecessary and will be punished for having boundaries/feelings. the latter is what makes the communication garbled, particularly for those who are unaware of themselves. Yes, the willingness is there...I’m generally very open and like to share with my partner. Being with my last ex is the first time I felt intimidated to share because he started to get irritable and withdraw. As I sensed that I felt more anxious and less comfortable sharing. I never hesitated sharing with my ex husband or others- with me the dynamic totally changed being with someone closed off. I remembered that feeling of being afraid to express oneself- it felt like my childhood home. It felt tense. If OP can keep the channels of communication open and both partners are willing to do that, I think that’s a big step in the right direction.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 1:39:32 GMT
Oh, I didn't take it in a negative light. I just done see any of the attachment types as good communicators. The article is excellent, in terms of describing what I've witnessed. That's all So I'm not walking on eggshells, not at all. I just don't see things your way and said so, partaking in the discussion. I didn’t mean you were walking on egg shells - I meant no one should feel that way w a different view. AP’s very much feel that way in many relationships. AP’s may not be the best communicators bc of their fears, but they’re open to talking. It’s a start. No opening, no progress. Another alternative view... I've never had a problem getting a dialog out of a fellow avoidant. DA may be known for this or that, any type may be known for this or that- but ultimately people behave in a dynamic. Getting an avoidant to open up is an approach. It's founded on a dynamic of trust and empathy and common ground , and a willingness to not gain anything from the interaction that really does the trick. This is not a dynamic that tends to exist in an AP/DA pairing. But; back to the Original post, what @shiningstar said, that sounds like a good assessment of what impedes communication on the AP side. (?) And, I just want to let OP in on an article that might describe some things helpful to the questions that were posed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 1:57:42 GMT
mm @nullified. I think that's an interesting point you made. Sorry OP if this is detracting from the topic.
it is a dynamic indeed. I've been involved in various awkward/difficult conversations the past few years, and I've really picked up on the differences.
I did notice that when i'm in a DA mode (with certain partners and parents), I am willing and able to talk, but with very little emotion involved. it's mainly logic and problem solving, but have limited emotional empathizing/sharing/affirming involved, even more so when the other party is DA. perhaps after the conversation, but not during.
when I'm in AP with a DA, there is that fear I spoke of. it's further exacerbated by emotional distance and a lack of emotional resonance. when the conversation is logical, it becomes triggering because there's a narrative, rightly or wrongly, that my emotional demands are a problem and need to be fixed. Boom. everyone is triggered. AP for being a burden just by being alive, and DA for feeling like they gotta fix stuff all the time.
when i'm with a secure (or at least it feels like a secure), there's a feeling of being on the same team, and that we're navigating the waters together. there's an interchange and flux of problem solving and emotional affirmation during the conversation. this makes it feel like even if it was me who brought up the "problem", he hears me and even if he disagrees, he affirms me and the relationship. There's extra relationship repair after the conversation too (e.g., jokes, affirmation, validation of each other), rather than disconnection (with DA) or excessive clinginess (with AP).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 2:03:43 GMT
standintheheart , I got experience with this, with my ex having the same ideas, then getting annoyed at me for having conversations with him. You said "Now - When she texts me, I anxiously think - "Must respond. Must make her laugh. Must assure her I am/we are ok. Must study text and make sure I understand it. Must try to understand her.... etc."" It's important that you recognized that YOU think this, not her, and she didn't demand you to do that. It seems like you feel pressure to perform a role, rather than working with her directly to find a way to navigate this as a couple. While you should do your own work to make sure that you are centered and secured, it is not your job to "must" do everything for her. That leads to excessive pressure on yourself and ultimately resentment of her, when she didn't ask any of this from you. I think it's crucial to remain very mindful of what you perceive as her needs and what she has stated as her needs. while there is definitely a gray area where someone does not detail that need but you know that it is important to them, you need to know that alot of narratives can be created from wrongly perceptions of what your role is in meeting her needs. so what i am saying is, you feel pressured on all these fronts already, but it doesn't seem like she's actually asked/did anything yet that warrants alarm. if you are sincere about working on this with her, it's key that both of you discuss this thoroughly and find a way to detach the insecurities from yourself. it's normal to feel and be triggered, but I think a strong relationship is when you are able to admit to each other that you are triggered but keep the relationship going to while you work through those concerns. it is slowly becoming my realization that not great relationships are those where one is triggered and then take it out on the entire relationship i.e., not protect and honor that connection that you have. this comes out in various ways, especially during communication, as can be seen from the countless threads here on dysfunctional communication patterns. lastly, it's important that you both acknowledge that you're on each other's side and that you're on the same team. it's also key that you and her FEEL this, not just SAY this. in my experience, it is a situation of trying to stay together while protecting themselves, but that really doesn't work. both parties can sense the wariness and the self-protection/defense, and that's really not great for building relationships.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 2:09:58 GMT
@shiningstar , interesting... some of the deepest emotional talks I have ever had were with a fellow DA. I guess every dynamic is what it is.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 2:25:58 GMT
@shiningstar , interesting... some of the deepest emotional talks I have ever had were with a fellow DA. I guess every dynamic is what it is. that is very true... because some of my deepest talks are also with DAs. maybe you both identify as DA, but the relationship is secure. perhaps here's a difference between what the dynamic is and what one self-identify as. that might be the key! OP also said that they are both anxious, and that common understanding of that experience led to emotional resonance. it's never so straightforward that pairing of labels = fixed situations -- and i hope it never will be.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 2:54:38 GMT
@shiningstar , interesting... some of the deepest emotional talks I have ever had were with a fellow DA. I guess every dynamic is what it is. that is very true... because some of my deepest talks are also with DAs. maybe you both identify as DA, but the relationship is secure. perhaps here's a difference between what the dynamic is and what one self-identify as. that might be the key! OP also said that they are both anxious, and that common understanding of that experience led to emotional resonance. it's never so straightforward that pairing of labels = fixed situations -- and i hope it never will be. Yes, it's about the dynamic I think. Nicely said.
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