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Post by 8675309 on Apr 25, 2019 21:56:12 GMT
I didn’t read all this but why would you even go there with another avoidant? Youre still trying to heal and back at it with another unavailable man. This is not going to help you.
Walk away and just stay friends.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2019 22:01:14 GMT
I didn’t read all this but why would you even go there with another avoidant? Youre still trying to heal and back at it with another unavailable man. This is not going to help you. Walk away and just stay friends. fo' sho! |
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Post by unluckyinlove on Apr 25, 2019 22:03:22 GMT
I agree with taking a short term break and was going to suggest it before even reading the comments, though I was thinking closer to 3 months because he's got issues to deal with right now and if he doesn't have time he'll keep sitting on an ambivalent fence with you. And you need time to convert back to thinking about him just as a friend and moving on in that way. It's very difficult when you have an AP history of not walking away, you voice your needs and try to walk away, and the other person doesn't want to step up (because, whether they're aware of it or not, they are unavailable), but also tries to talk you out of going. I'm in that situation right now, with a new guy who is likely FA, and it's really difficult to make that decision to back off and meet resistance, so decide what you want to do beforehand (30 days, 3 months, something else), and stick to your guns about it. Not doing so will feel like a step back and like getting stuck, at least in my recent experience coming at it from earned secure. The good news is, it's easier to deal with this stuff when you understand which dynamics are actually playing out! Yay attachment theory. If you date someone who you believe is FA, and encounter both resistance to relationship and resistance to endings, isn't the healthy thing to resist being in the back seat while an insecure and unhealthy partner drives the agenda? I guess a three month waiting period is better than an indefinite stay but it does get tiresome to have to work so hard just to date, or maintain a friendship, doesn't it? It seems like a more natural flow would be more desirable. It would be nice to not have to work so hard for sure! But remember not all "relationships" are romantic and some relationships such as friendship and family aren't the kind that you can easily walk away from indefinitely. I think what Alexandria was saying about making the decision to but a break in place and "check back in" after a certain amount of time is actually a secure move. And I still believe in the power of change when someone realizes what they are losing, becomes aware of their wounds and works on healing. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2019 22:07:18 GMT
If you date someone who you believe is FA, and encounter both resistance to relationship and resistance to endings, isn't the healthy thing to resist being in the back seat while an insecure and unhealthy partner drives the agenda? I guess a three month waiting period is better than an indefinite stay but it does get tiresome to have to work so hard just to date, or maintain a friendship, doesn't it? It seems like a more natural flow would be more desirable. It would be nice to not have to work so hard for sure! But remember not all "relationships" are romantic and some relationships such as friendship and family aren't the kind that you can easily walk away from indefinitely. I think what Alexandria was saying about making the decision to but a break in place and "check back in" after a certain amount of time is actually a secure move. And I still believe in the power of change when someone realizes what they are losing, becomes aware of their wounds and works on healing. I'm just referring to the situation of dating a suspected FA , who won't step up but doesn't want you to leave. That's a lot of work, emotionally. |
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Post by alexandra on Apr 25, 2019 22:32:39 GMT
Thanks, but I wasn't saying I'm doing that. The OP is describing a 15 year friendship. I'm not describing an established friendship at all. I agree with her she shouldn't throw that away and was suggesting she make the decision about what she wants, stick with it, and give it some time to chill so that they can maintain their friendship. And was also saying that this kind of ambivalent and not ready dynamic isn't uncommon, especially if insecure attachment is involved, and was giving an example of what could happen if she didn't double-down on boundaries.
My situation has an established end date due to other circumstances and I wasn't sure if he was insecurely attached until I told him I want to end things early and why. But I wasn't expecting to encounter resistance and was trying to offer some potential pitfalls to consider when preparing for a conversation to both establish needs and save the long-standing friendship described in this thread.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 1:08:45 GMT
Oh, gotcha alexandra ! Makes sense. I got confused about what was what and who. haha |
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Post by mrob on Apr 26, 2019 3:12:13 GMT
I don’t think this man is dismissive at all. More of an FA, like myself. Let him go or he will circle and cause you grief.
Also, bear in mind that some of us men are incapable of being just friends with the opposite sex, especially after sex.
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Post by happyidiot on Apr 26, 2019 7:04:35 GMT
I feel like maybe I am looking at this a bit differently from other people. This is how it comes across to me:
Two people who have known each other for FIFTEEN YEARS (and are in a confused place in their lives) have sex. This may be, in my opinion, a very important detail that no one else seems to be making a big deal out of. How well do you know him? Did you stay in touch frequently? I didn't really get a clear picture of your relationship prior to the sex. I mean, I have people I've "known" for that long who I barely know and rarely see or talk to and we've only been "friends" by Mark Zuckerberg's standards, and I also have some very dear and close friends, and of course people who are in between. If you are more than ultra-casual acquaintances this could be a very confusing and nerve-wracking situation for anyone, regardless of attachment type. I have a male friend who I have known for around that long and we've come close to getting physical at times. I know he is secure. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if we DID sleep together if he acted weird and distant afterwards. Especially if that happened at a time when he felt like he was not ready for a relationship and had communicated that to me prior (which almost happened). Sometimes he's acted a bit weird and distant for a time just because we got really flirty or had some emotional talks. Sometimes I probably just imagined he was being weird and distant because his texts were brief and really he was just super busy but still trying to stay in touch. And this is a guy who is fully secure. So if an avoidant person reacts merely by seeming slightly different in their texts and telling you they feel conflicted, that seems like not a very extreme reaction to me.
If you know each other pretty well and have mutual friends and whatnot, then I'd say OF COURSE this guy is putting pressure on himself to decide right away if he wants a relationship or not or is leading you on or whatever else he feels he needs to decide, because you have been friends for 15 years. I'm sure plenty of people would see this as a high-stakes scenario because you risk completely losing the friendship and also making life way more awkward than if things didn't work out with, say, someone you met on Tinder last week who has no other connection to you. And plenty of people wouldn't be great at talking about all that and might just pull back a little while they think about things.
I don't really see how some dramatic move like declaring 1-3 months of no contact is necessary. This guy has told you where he's at. He has been honest about how he feels like it was "too soon" as he doesn't feel he is capable of a relationship right now. You know he's not a good choice for you to get emotionally or sexually involved with right now. Are your anxieties so triggered that you have to go no contact, or have a big serious talk? Can you just pull back yourself and focus on other things for a bit? Just because he texts you doesn't mean you always have to reply right away when the texts are just making conversation. Or you could even tell him you're busier than usual if you feel like you have to say something. And I suggest you get busier than usual, so it will be the truth.
My vote is let him go, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to stop talking forever if you value the friendship. It's more about letting him go in your head, if that makes sense.
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Post by happyidiot on Apr 26, 2019 7:24:40 GMT
My take, is that here is an opportunity to make a major shift in how you conduct yourself in relationships. Here is a chance to identify and drop the role that has you engaging with unavailable partners. It leaves you left out, confused, and wondering what is next. My experience is if you can see it, drop it, and walk away you will never again be confused about what to do when a partner is telling you exactly how and why they cannot progress with you. You'll wish then the best of luck and move on because you are no longer in the lost girl role. It feels great to DECIDE how to feel and be in your life instead of being subject to the whims and priorities of someone else. Unavailable feels like crap and it's harder to carry on with it then it is to move up a level and be truly available for something better. I love this. You have perfectly articulated something that I have been practicing in my own life with great success. And add to that, learning how to not be destroyed if someone drops me and walks away or to worry about that possibility. I think one of the reasons that people waste time on unavailable partners is that deep down we feel we don't deserve someone awesome who is fully available and commits to us and so don't even realize that is a possibility and may even tell ourselves we aren't looking for a serious relationship. But if we can get clear on what we truly want (or at least what we don't want!) we might start seeing entanglements with unavailable people as waste of time, stopping us from meeting someone available and great. We might even be relieved when someone reveals themselves as unavailable early on, because at least they saved us some time and we can quickly move on. And the more times you let someone go because you realize there is a major barrier (like they have another partner, they live far away, they said they weren't looking for anything serious, there is some deal-breaker, etc) the easier it gets and the easier it gets to notice quickly when a barrier is there and stop choosing people with barriers. |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 26, 2019 11:47:21 GMT
I don’t think this man is dismissive at all. More of an FA, like myself. Let him go or he will circle and cause you grief. Also, bear in mind that some of us men are incapable of being just friends with the opposite sex, especially after sex. I don’t understand the circle and cause you grief statement mrob. Can you elaborate on that? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 11:56:04 GMT
My take, is that here is an opportunity to make a major shift in how you conduct yourself in relationships. Here is a chance to identify and drop the role that has you engaging with unavailable partners. It leaves you left out, confused, and wondering what is next. My experience is if you can see it, drop it, and walk away you will never again be confused about what to do when a partner is telling you exactly how and why they cannot progress with you. You'll wish then the best of luck and move on because you are no longer in the lost girl role. It feels great to DECIDE how to feel and be in your life instead of being subject to the whims and priorities of someone else. Unavailable feels like crap and it's harder to carry on with it then it is to move up a level and be truly available for something better. I love this. You have perfectly articulated something that I have been practicing in my own life with great success. And add to that, learning how to not be destroyed if someone drops me and walks away or to worry about that possibility. I think one of the reasons that people waste time on unavailable partners is that deep down we feel we don't deserve someone awesome who is fully available and commits to us and so don't even realize that is a possibility and may even tell ourselves we aren't looking for a serious relationship. But if we can get clear on what we truly want (or at least what we don't want!) we might start seeing entanglements with unavailable people as waste of time, stopping us from meeting someone available and great. We might even be relieved when someone reveals themselves as unavailable early on, because at least they saved us some time and we can quickly move on. And the more times you let someone go because you realize there is a major barrier (like they have another partner, they live far away, they said they weren't looking for anything serious, there is some deal-breaker, etc) the easier it gets and the easier it gets to notice quickly when a barrier is there and stop choosing people with barriers. Right? I had an epiphany about this. DA will hang around in unavailable relationships, to their detriment , like any other insecure style, and the last time I found myself suffering the same old pain I had an epiphany. I was unconsciously in the same role I was when I was a child. Feeling the exact same way. With the same attachment figures... wow! It was so liberating, actually, to see it. I plucked myself out of the role and JUST. STOPPED. I got out of reaction and into action and it was a relief to let go. The drama inherent in unavailable relationships is toxic and a repetition of pattern and script. It doesn't have to be so hard, painful, confusing, so WEIRD. So UNIQUE. (Hint: it's not unique. It's a different version of unavailable. It's anything but unique.) Old stuff needs to go away. A key step in finding out what you want is stopping, dropping, what you know you don't want. No further deliberation necessary. Unavailable? Not my thing. Lots of drama and inconsistency and negativity that begs me to crouch down into that little role? No way. Terrible waste of time, terrible waste of Me. |
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 26, 2019 12:05:23 GMT
My take, is that here is an opportunity to make a major shift in how you conduct yourself in relationships. Here is a chance to identify and drop the role that has you engaging with unavailable partners. It leaves you left out, confused, and wondering what is next. My experience is if you can see it, drop it, and walk away you will never again be confused about what to do when a partner is telling you exactly how and why they cannot progress with you. You'll wish then the best of luck and move on because you are no longer in the lost girl role. It feels great to DECIDE how to feel and be in your life instead of being subject to the whims and priorities of someone else. Unavailable feels like crap and it's harder to carry on with it then it is to move up a level and be truly available for something better. I love this. You have perfectly articulated something that I have been practicing in my own life with great success. And add to that, learning how to not be destroyed if someone drops me and walks away or to worry about that possibility. I think one of the reasons that people waste time on unavailable partners is that deep down we feel we don't deserve someone awesome who is fully available and commits to us and so don't even realize that is a possibility and may even tell ourselves we aren't looking for a serious relationship. But if we can get clear on what we truly want (or at least what we don't want!) we might start seeing entanglements with unavailable people as waste of time, stopping us from meeting someone available and great. We might even be relieved when someone reveals themselves as unavailable early on, because at least they saved us some time and we can quickly move on. And the more times you let someone go because you realize there is a major barrier (like they have another partner, they live far away, they said they weren't looking for anything serious, there is some deal-breaker, etc) the easier it gets and the easier it gets to notice quickly when a barrier is there and stop choosing people with barriers. I know this was not addressed to me and I hope it is ok to speak to this...the above, although extremely sound and logical, goes against my AP mantra in my head to “never give up on someone I care about”. I am working on changing that tape or at least being aware of it playing in the background...but cutting ties is a real challenge for me, and I think that may be why some people hang on to unavailable partners. Embracing an attitude of “this is a waste of my time” does not compute because I oftentimes find myself looking at potential and possibility versus what is really there...so I conveniently gloss over the “unavailable” part and cling to what is “potential”, which I think happens a lot in insecure pairings. Thank you for letting me explore this a bit a speak to a deep seated issue that I am working on. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 12:09:44 GMT
Also, in response to the recommendation of 90 days no contact- I personally, as a DA, would not re-engage after someone imposed that. I don't know if he is DA. But no contact is a way to end a relationship in my mind, we can't put people in timeouts to figure out their stuff and hope they will be more to our liking when we let them out. I know no contact is supposed to be about working on personal issues for the initiator but it cuts both ways. I don't know that secure people need to do that, it doesn't really make sense to me.
It sounds like the issue is fairly resolved though, to the satisfaction of both parties.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 12:16:57 GMT
I love this. You have perfectly articulated something that I have been practicing in my own life with great success. And add to that, learning how to not be destroyed if someone drops me and walks away or to worry about that possibility. I think one of the reasons that people waste time on unavailable partners is that deep down we feel we don't deserve someone awesome who is fully available and commits to us and so don't even realize that is a possibility and may even tell ourselves we aren't looking for a serious relationship. But if we can get clear on what we truly want (or at least what we don't want!) we might start seeing entanglements with unavailable people as waste of time, stopping us from meeting someone available and great. We might even be relieved when someone reveals themselves as unavailable early on, because at least they saved us some time and we can quickly move on. And the more times you let someone go because you realize there is a major barrier (like they have another partner, they live far away, they said they weren't looking for anything serious, there is some deal-breaker, etc) the easier it gets and the easier it gets to notice quickly when a barrier is there and stop choosing people with barriers. I know this was not addressed to me and I hope it is ok to speak to this...the above, although extremely sound and logical, goes against my AP mantra in my head to “never give up on someone I care about”. I am working on changing that tape or at least being aware of it playing in the background...but cutting ties is a real challenge for me, and I think that may be why some people hang on to unavailable partners. Embracing an attitude of “this is a waste of my time” does not compute because I oftentimes find myself looking at potential and possibility versus what is really there...so I conveniently gloss over the “unavailable” part and cling to what is “potential”, which I think happens a lot in insecure pairings. Thank you for letting me explore this a bit a speak to a deep seated issue that I am working on. Of course. It seems to me that what you are doing is an extreme form of emotional unavailability. In yourself. You are able to keep the relationship alive and even feel "connection" without being detected when you stalk on social media. The entire relationship exists only as a potential in your imagination and keeps you solidly unavailable for a partner, or even your healthier self. You are entertaining potential for a relationship that he is oblivious to- and it's you doing it. I'd say you can't get more emotionally unavailable than that. It is a fantasy relationship that takes up the relationship space in your life. And it doesn't exist. It's not real. It's fascinating to see both sides of the unavailable spectrum, in a way. AP's are unavailable too but their enormous burden of emotions masquerade as emotional availability. What a conundrum for all insecure types. I think a person isn't done until they are done, though. And when you're done, it gets a whole lot simpler. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 12:27:32 GMT
happyidiot , isn't it incredible when you realize that feeling horrible is a choice? When the role is anchoice? Of course you're going to feel sad and angry and stressed and confused with a partner who is inconsistent and emotionally unhealthy. There's only so much you can do to grow in such a situation before you realize, uh, the situation doesn't fit me anymore. It's just so empowering to realize that everything involves a choice. It doesn't make it easy- but it simplifies things. I've learned to be a lot more conscious in my choices. Make the tough ones. Deal with the risks. Be myself, full on. Say what I'm thinking and feeling. Know and say what I need and want. It gets easier and easier and I don't feel alone because I haven't abandoned myself for some other lost soul. I know exactly where I am at with me and really, that's the best feeling.
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