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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 3:49:10 GMT
An article describing the Freeze response, this is a description of the deactivation that I experience as a dismissive. It is not always so severe with all the physical symptoms, it varies, mild to serious. Typically it lasts for days for me, although I think it was periods of weeks and months for me at times of my life. Those who are dismissively attached may be interested in the article in order to understand themselves and why they experience what they do. Those with dismissive partners may find it helpful to understand what is occurring for their partner, and to understand the physiological barriers to intimacy that present when childhood traumas are triggered. Here you will see common conplaints: reduced sex drive (under stress, deactivation) reduced ability to engage socially, reduced ability to access emotion. These are the result of an over active parasympathetic system, which is in high gear- it is not a stubborn choice to disengage- it is physiological, just like fight and flight are. Its a great article: childhoodtraumarecovery.com/all-articles/the-freeze-response-to-trauma/ |
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Post by ocarina on Jul 20, 2019 21:49:14 GMT
Yes this is me at times - I become intensely withdrawn to the point of almost being mute. Feel like a block of stone. It's bizarre. It's usually triggered by multiple stressors all at once and I withdraw even from my most trusted companions.
Having said that, it's really in the past - more open communication as meant I share my feelings and it doesn't get to this stage any more.
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Post by toorational on Jul 22, 2019 19:38:15 GMT
Interesting read, thanks for sharing. The bit about "childhood trauma" being the source of this deactivation strategy rings true. My GF was heavily bullied because of her looks when she was young. A traumatic experience for sure. It would make sense that she would develop a freeze response to cope with that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 1:51:37 GMT
There is a spectrum of freeze response. Any of the trauma responses can be experienced by any attachment type. The fight or flight response of AP is also a trauma response, and also occurs on a spectrum.
I have posted this article because the freeze response is much less discussed than fight or flight.
And, the freeze response is the response that dismissives experience rather than the activated state of fight or flight when triggered.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 1:55:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 2:01:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 2:59:36 GMT
Diane Poole Heller describes avoidant adaptation as the nervous system being "too off" in the Dorsal Vagal state, and disorganized as missing the regulation between the "too on" and "too off" states of sympathetic vs parasympathetic.
I'm not sure what you believe about this but I experience the shutdown described by Heller, the dorsal vagal response, and not a flipping back and forth between sympathetic and dorsal vagal.
And in fact, ventral vagal support in the form of caring social contact helps me come out of that shut down.
So, I am ok with disagreeing but I have gained a lot of help from the work of researchers who have studied the role of the nervous system threat responses in attachment.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 4:06:43 GMT
The activation of the sympathetic nervous system in ambivalent vs the activation of the parasympathetic nervous system in avoidant is discussed in her book The Power of Attachment.
Do you disagree? The PNS response is the shutdown. The SNS is fight or flight. I'm confused about what you're saying.
Are you saying that the ANS nervous system responses do not occur in attachment, and only in other kinds of trauma? That contradicts what she teaches.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 4:08:21 GMT
@sherry You can try to read the healing desorganised/trauma thread again. I have posted about the fight, flight, freeze response ect. I am referencing Diane Poole Heller's work. I understand about fight flight freeze. Diane says that the avoidant adaptation involves PNS shutdown. I don't really want to argue as the work I have had with ANS approach has been very helpful to me.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 4:10:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 4:26:32 GMT
You are arguing about what she writes clearly about in her own books.
The heading is "Range of Resiliency" and it is searchable in the google link.
Sympathetic = Fight or Flight
Parasympathetic = Freeze
in common terms.
I don't have further comments either.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 4:45:22 GMT
I am NOT argueing about what she writes in her books. I was commiting on your First post. What are you disagreeing with though? I simply posted an article describing the PNS response, saying that is the response of the dismissive in deactivation. It also occurs in trauma. I have no idea what you disagree with, can you explain? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 12:04:57 GMT
@sherry you've posted Something from Stephen Porges.about the freeze state You posted Something about shame,dessosiation, freeze, hopelessness, helpnessless ect (not from Diane) But from Steven Porges. Thats why I Wrote what I did So how can You know if You are acting out of a desorganised parterne or an avoidant pattern? Not All With some Tiny desorganised pattern flips back and Forth. Are you serious? You are thinking we all need to identify what exact style we are acting out of? Parasympathetic overactivation is in response to a perceived threat. So is sympathetic. The trigger can be a good indication. And that's something people can identify themselves or in therapy. This article describes it, and mentions polyvagal theory and I was just posting so someone who doesn't experience it could read a description. I've done trauma work and I also have spent time working with attachment therapists, and you and I don't have to align. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 13:50:28 GMT
Nope Thats not what I am saying at All. Lets leave IT Here. If You have read All That I have posted in This board You would know. I have read your threads and there is a lot of helpful information, but also some of it is very difficult to understand because of a language/ organization issue. You tend to bring in a lot of information from various sources without distinguishing one aspect from another, it's all thrown together. The language you use is sometimes confusing, especially on the healing threads. It is not that it isn't helpful but going straight to the sources you reference is how I had been working before I came to the forum. Heller has been a favorite source for me because of her understanding and the way she writes it. There are other very helpful sources for attachment as well, there are many very knowledgeable and skillful therapists putting information out there. And many of them quote her and her work. So yes, this conversation turned from my original intent which was to share the description of a parasympathetic stress response for those less familiar with it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 14:31:58 GMT
Ah.... how low can You go..! I have seen This drama before. Not All in This forum comes from an english speaking country, and You wouldent Be able to understand my notes anyway. Do not ask me any questions in the future. Thank You! What? I am completely confused. Why have you just not explained the disagreement? I don't understand your input into this thread at all and asked for clarification. I do have trouble understanding the organization of your long threads and the wording you use- that is not an insult. I have asked for explanation and instead of clearly stating your points you have asked a series of questions and pointed me to other threads. Why not just explain? I think it is your drama, not mine. |
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