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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 14:57:14 GMT
I also would like to admit here that I am not proud of the DEACTIVATING THOUGHTS that come into my head when I am shutting down or trying to turn myself away. I think they are ugly and mean thoughts that do not represent the way I feel about people in my heart. I am sure you have read somewhere about how dismissives will focus on or even make up imperfections or faults in their partner or in others as a defense against being too close. This is true and it's gross, because I myself know that people overlook my imperfections and flaws in order to love me- and I am truly loved. I also truly love. These thoughts are automatic- and seem so petty but they are the little devil on my shoulder saying DONT RELY ON THIS. Don't trust. Don't let them too close. This will end badly. So- with this group of amazing professionals whom I admire and respect, and whom I would like to get to know (my pace is too slow for a days long event  ) - I had these stupid ridiculous thoughts like: These people are ridiculous with their instant camaraderie. How fake. What terrible boundaries. They think they know me? No one can understand me. I don't belong with these people! I'm an alien and I gotta get out of this stupid place. Look at how he dressed OMG what is that, some kind of embroidery on his vest? How silly. Blingy! Does everyone have to talk so much about every little thought they are having here?! I don't want to do this. Why did I think I could do this? I watched myself having these thoughts and was really not happy about it because this is not how I really roll. I work daily with people and I like people. I do it one on one in an established setting that allows a process, and I'm comfortable and enjoy knowing and relating to many different kinds of people in a meaningful way- but it's at my pace with my boundaries and I am the leader. So different and so safe for me compared to being thrown into the mix. I overcame the thoughts and DISMISSED THEM as a defense  But it frustrates me that my brain goes there to get me away from people. Yes it really does frustrate me. I have read the same thing from AP who have silly automatic thoughts when they are anxious so please understand I don't like my thoughts, but I can go along with them to rationalize my withdraw and it's all just a self protective load of shit I am having compassion for and trying to change. Awareness is the first step. These deactivating thoughts disappear when I am able to repair and open up and be vulnerable. They evaporate- they aren't real. But they are indeed a part of a narrative that has kept me at a distance my whole life so it's not always easy to recognize that they aren't real. I am working on all of this. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 15:02:36 GMT
I am so glad it is helpful. For me, it is helpful to share it because NATURALLY I tend to keep it all in my head and writing it out I think helps me to evolve with it instead of... just shut down and dismiss this process. You naturally keep it all in your head? Wow you made lots of progress then!  It helps me to write here as well, because it's an alternative to overwhelm my GF with couple talk. There's much work I can do on myself without overwhelming her. I think it's extremely admirable the fact that you have kindly shared and candidly opened up this amount of useful information especially here on this forum. Many of us don't and can't understand what happens especially from a DA's perspective. So now it's out here, it will help us especially AP's to understand what happens. Thank you again! Agreed 100%. Thanks sherry for the opportunity to peek into the mind of a DA. Oh heck yes I naturally keep it all in my head because it's automatic, the deactivating process and until recent years I never even questioned it or needed to process it. I have a DA girlfriend going through self awareness too but of course we rarely spill guts to each other- when we do it's great but we are both in a bubble. Every single time I post here I realize there is more I haven't shared with my partner and I love him a lot. It's so effed up. Really, understand this. We go inside rather than share outside and it's just really pervasive, I didn't even realize before awareness what a closed book I have been all my life. One counselor said to my husband at the time : "Do you find sherry to be an enigma, a puzzle you cannot solve or even find all the pieces?" And i thought- What the hell? I am here aren't I? What's to figure out? I didn't get what he was saying AT ALL and I felt singled out and put on the spot. I had no connection even to all my feelings and thoughts AND DIDNT EVEN REALIZE IT. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 15:08:57 GMT
I am so glad it is helpful. For me, it is helpful to share it because NATURALLY I tend to keep it all in my head and writing it out I think helps me to evolve with it instead of... just shut down and dismiss this process. Anything uncomfortable on a personal is just so automatically dismissed or minimized in order to make it less threatening. That can be awesome because seriously, I am good at not sweating the small shit and can really be effective in a crisis. But relationships aren't a crisis they are just triggering. The whole DA narrative goes AGAINST interdependence and intimacy and it's harder than you think to overcome it. Like has been mentioned- this is deep stuff and we all operate out of mortal fear. The mental processes are pervasive, deep, profound. It's an attempt to guard against loss which feels too painful to bear. Just like AP anxiety. It's so crazy how same and different all this is. I get why AP and DA trigger the HEll out of each other. It takes deep work to improve both sides of the dilemma. I think it's extremely admirable the fact that you have kindly shared and candidly opened up this amount of useful information especially here on this forum. Many of us don't and can't understand what happens especially from a DA's perspective. So now it's out here, it will help us especially AP's to understand what happens. Thank you again! I am truly glad that it is helpful. I do want to he helpful. I am sure it will not surprise you for me to say, I'm doing it for me. Ha. This is selfish. But in it I recognize that we are all here together trying to figure this out and that without you others here to receive me, this would not be possible. So YES here is a DA realizing that she needs and benefits from candid interactions about what is going on and what she struggles with. I see that it is so elementary but it's been a learning process. So I Do appreciate the group interactions here and all the individuals opening up about their own struggles and I am sorry when I am not as soft as I could be about interactions. I am. Yes- I feel pathetic sometimes and dismiss my needs. I disparage my needs and the needs of others when I am defended and withdrawn. I am a work in progress. This has been a lot of information for me to reveal but I am glad it's on the internet. I talk about it at times with counselors and close friends but I would like to be more comfortable in general with being real about what goes on in me especially the ugly bits. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 15:38:11 GMT
AND- all those deactivating thoughts sound like anxiety right? They are. But how that manifest for me, is not to have a racing heart and want some reassurance or comfort. Instead, I feel exhausted, start to numb out a bit, feel a little tired and am convinced that what I need is some peace and quiet in my own head space. That's when I exit and retreat and go feel more peaceful alone. I'll do something constructive, or just enjoy my reverie in solitude.
If it's a relationship trigger and I feel vulnerable to loss I will busy myself and just kind of detach. I may think about the situation but since I don't have a solution I just kind of procrastinate and pull back. Since I have had a long time to get to know my guy and we have a lot of similarities and trust between us, I have been able to sort of reach out and stay connected even though I'm not fully feeling it. Then the thing resolves, I get to a better place and we talk about it, he gets to a better place and we talk, or we have conflict and we expose suppressed feelings and we talk, or whatever. We are both getting better at all this. I honestly think I would trigger an AP so bad it would be very destructive to us both. I have had progress in this relationship because the space and decompression needs are mutual and we have learned to trust the connection.
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 24, 2019 17:45:07 GMT
AND- all those deactivating thoughts sound like anxiety right? They are. But how that manifest for me, is not to have a racing heart and want some reassurance or comfort. Instead, I feel exhausted, start to numb out a bit, feel a little tired and am convinced that what I need is some peace and quiet in my own head space. That's when I exit and retreat and go feel more peaceful alone. I'll do something constructive, or just enjoy my reverie in solitude. If it's a relationship trigger and I feel vulnerable to loss I will busy myself and just kind of detach. I may think about the situation but since I don't have a solution I just kind of procrastinate and pull back. Since I have had a long time to get to know my guy and we have a lot of similarities and trust between us, I have been able to sort of reach out and stay connected even though I'm not fully feeling it. Then the thing resolves, I get to a better place and we talk about it, he gets to a better place and we talk, or we have conflict and we expose suppressed feelings and we talk, or whatever. We are both getting better at all this. I honestly think I would trigger an AP so bad it would be very destructive to us both. I have had progress in this relationship because the space and decompression needs are mutual and we have learned to trust the connection. @sherry - When I read your DA perspective it helps me appreciate how overwhelming and debilitating being close must be to my ex DA. He doesn’t verbalize his feelings a lot and instead seeks solitude, but when he does confide bits and pieces to me I get the same exact sense of what you’re describing. Recently he didn’t respond to my texts for two weeks- then he texts that “he was sorry to keep me hanging and that my deep texts were too much for him and he needed a minute.” A minute to him, felt much longer to me having that desire for connection. He has such walls and defense mechanisms against closeness. You help me see where he’s coming from and I appreciate that, but at the same time it opens my eyes to how painful and possibly impossible it is for him to maintain closeness. I’d like to be consistent and build trust without being AP triggered. I’m building my connection and security to myself and as a result his pushing away affects me less, but sobering to know how much closeness hurts and repels him. I never dated anyone like him before. I wonder is physical closeness as triggering to a DA as emotional? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 20:54:21 GMT
AND- all those deactivating thoughts sound like anxiety right? They are. But how that manifest for me, is not to have a racing heart and want some reassurance or comfort. Instead, I feel exhausted, start to numb out a bit, feel a little tired and am convinced that what I need is some peace and quiet in my own head space. That's when I exit and retreat and go feel more peaceful alone. I'll do something constructive, or just enjoy my reverie in solitude. If it's a relationship trigger and I feel vulnerable to loss I will busy myself and just kind of detach. I may think about the situation but since I don't have a solution I just kind of procrastinate and pull back. Since I have had a long time to get to know my guy and we have a lot of similarities and trust between us, I have been able to sort of reach out and stay connected even though I'm not fully feeling it. Then the thing resolves, I get to a better place and we talk about it, he gets to a better place and we talk, or we have conflict and we expose suppressed feelings and we talk, or whatever. We are both getting better at all this. I honestly think I would trigger an AP so bad it would be very destructive to us both. I have had progress in this relationship because the space and decompression needs are mutual and we have learned to trust the connection. @sherry - When I read your DA perspective it helps me appreciate how overwhelming and debilitating being close must be to my ex DA. He doesn’t verbalize his feelings a lot and instead seeks solitude, but when he does confide bits and pieces to me I get the same exact sense of what you’re describing. Recently he didn’t respond to my texts for two weeks- then he texts that “he was sorry to keep me hanging and that my deep texts were too much for him and he needed a minute.” A minute to him, felt much longer to me having that desire for connection. He has such walls and defense mechanisms against closeness. You help me see where he’s coming from and I appreciate that, but at the same time it opens my eyes to how painful and possibly impossible it is for him to maintain closeness. I’d like to be consistent and build trust without being AP triggered. I’m building my connection and security to myself and as a result his pushing away affects me less, but sobering to know how much closeness hurts and repels him. I never dated anyone like him before. I wonder is physical closeness as triggering to a DA as emotional? First I have to explain that being close had never been overwhelming or debilitating to me prior to becoming aware of myself emotionally- because I flat didn't allow it to happen. All that deactivating is to prevent it- so the only reason I have really experienced full on discomfort is when I have tried to stick around past the deactivating thoughts. Does that make sense? My whole gig has been about avoiding the potential. So, prior to the relationship I am in now I didn't feel close, didn't feel bonded, didn't feel overwhelmed. Because when I thought and felt the negatives I just moved away from it all and was ok again. Being dismissive isn't bad all the time, and can actually be pretty fine. Before I discovered that I do want and need closer relationships, it's just the way it was for me and although I felt kind of like the odd one out that didn't debilitate me. To me the arguments I had in my head against relationships sounded perfectly reasonable and like pluses, not negatives. The list is long, the benefits of being unattached. I did NOT see the negatives. There are countless ways to find pseudo- satisfaction and peace in this world that have nothing to do with intimacy. When your priority is not relationship, a lack of one doesn't sting so much. Let's face it- relationships can be a real hassle and quite an inconvenience and that is what a dismissive will try to focus on, at least I did. And it worked for a long time. Having kids, getting older and more mature, experiencing life stressors or just growing spiritually and emotionally as people tend to do over time, has changed this for me. Death of parents, existential questions, and the awareness of love in myself for other people (of course my kids! my friends! people who suffer! ) made me question why I didn't allow that or think it was important for myself. Seeds were planted over time, and I got to a point of really being open to a new way. Having said that- being fully aware of the defenses I have and the absolutely solid walls that I am able to build against vulnerability, I WOULD NOT BOTHER trying to have a relationship with an unaware DA. I just know what the internal mechanism is and it is daunting for me, myself. I get it. I would have no hope for a solid bond with a sleepwalking DA because it's just too deep. It's as hard for a DA to overcome their drive away as it is for an anxious person to overcome their anxiety. Maybe harder, probably harder because they don't ask for help or know they need it. I have been working at this for a long time (in my mind, three years is a very long time to be sticking with someone emotionally) and able to be where I am only because I have worked consciously with it , utilized therapy and a lot of self help, and my partner is also aware and in therapy for himself. If that were not the case I do not see this being possible at all. And, even in spite of that, I STILL have times when I can just feel like I am better off alone. Still. I wonder if I will always have to work with that or if it will just continue to get less believable. I have talked about that quite a lot with my guy over this time, and I was the first person he ever heard express the same things he thinks and feels as an avoidant. It's not an ideal relationship but really more than I ever thought possible or even desirable prior to things changing internally for me. As to whether or not physical closeness is triggering? Remember not all DA are the same degree - there are lots of factors in the mix and a mix of other styles in everyone. So individual. But for me- not so much. I have been non impacted by causal sex or even married sex to men who I wasn't emotionally intimate with. It's the emotional piece for me, the true relationship, that triggers me now. Non- intimate sex or physical closeness is not a big deal. I feel very vulnerable when my partner and I have emotionally intimate sex. So does he. But we enjoy it. It comes with a necessary decompression following it. Thats just the way it is for us at this time. We come close, so close together and then exhale and lighten it up and then come back to stasis. It's not perfectly smooth but that's the general pattern. If we weren't emotionally close I would just be doing the casual thing and not really deactivating out of vulnerability but more out of disinterest, I'd be doing the dismissive thing of just not being available. Anyway- in your situation I personally would advise you to let it go and grieve and move on. I myself, and this is just me, coming from my own experience with myself - I would see no hope or realistic future with the man you have been involved with at all. I can't read his mind but what you share indicates to me, the writing on the wall is there and yes I believe it impossible to get anywhere with him. I am sorry to offend you if I do by saying that. But there is nothing at all to be optimistic about there if you want a real relationship, not from what you share. I'm sorry to say it but I really mean it. This stuff is really deep and hard to get past especially if someone isn't even trying or aware at all. |
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Post by ocarina on Jul 24, 2019 22:15:37 GMT
I also would like to admit here that I am not proud of the DEACTIVATING THOUGHTS that come into my head when I am shutting down or trying to turn myself away. I think they are ugly and mean thoughts that do not represent the way I feel about people in my heart. I am sure you have read somewhere about how dismissives will focus on or even make up imperfections or faults in their partner or in others as a defense against being too close. This is true and it's gross, because I myself know that people overlook my imperfections and flaws in order to love me- and I am truly loved. I also truly love. These thoughts are automatic- and seem so petty but they are the little devil on my shoulder saying DONT RELY ON THIS. Don't trust. Don't let them too close. This will end badly. So- with this group of amazing professionals whom I admire and respect, and whom I would like to get to know (my pace is too slow for a days long event ) - I had these stupid ridiculous thoughts like: These people are ridiculous with their instant camaraderie. How fake. What terrible boundaries. They think they know me? No one can understand me. I don't belong with these people! I'm an alien and I gotta get out of this stupid place. Look at how he dressed OMG what is that, some kind of embroidery on his vest? How silly. Blingy! Does everyone have to talk so much about every little thought they are having here?! I don't want to do this. Why did I think I could do this? I watched myself having these thoughts and was really not happy about it because this is not how I really roll. I work daily with people and I like people. I do it one on one in an established setting that allows a process, and I'm comfortable and enjoy knowing and relating to many different kinds of people in a meaningful way- but it's at my pace with my boundaries and I am the leader. So different and so safe for me compared to being thrown into the mix. I overcame the thoughts and DISMISSED THEM as a defense But it frustrates me that my brain goes there to get me away from people. Yes it really does frustrate me. I have read the same thing from AP who have silly automatic thoughts when they are anxious so please understand I don't like my thoughts, but I can go along with them to rationalize my withdraw and it's all just a self protective load of shit I am having compassion for and trying to change. Awareness is the first step. These deactivating thoughts disappear when I am able to repair and open up and be vulnerable. They evaporate- they aren't real. But they are indeed a part of a narrative that has kept me at a distance my whole life so it's not always easy to recognize that they aren't real. I am working on all of this. I could have written this - and I am really ashamed of how I have isolated myself and other people in the past. I have hurt people over and over again as a result of my attachment issues - and now that I can really begin to feel just how difficult the emotional pain must have been, I feel really very sad - for myself and for my previous partners.
The thing is - as @sherry says, without recognising this which has taken years, I didn't feel as though there was anything wrong with me - I simply never attached to anyone, ever. I knew this was slightly unusual and always felt slightly superior in that way, but it hasn't been until the past few years where I have grown to realise what an unnatural and isolating life I was constructing for myself. The sad thing is that none of my partners could have done anything different to make anything change. It very much had to come from within. It makes me sad to read people posting here trying to work out how to behave to help an avoidant partner bond with them - in my experience at least, that's wasted time and energy and a road to heartache. Change needs to be internally motivated - and I quite simply didn't see that there was a problem so where was the motivation? It took a lot of work, maturity and a couple of relationships where I began to experience real intimacy - and some friendships, to even begin the journey.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 22:30:43 GMT
ocarina, I got chills when I read what you write here because it's just so true. I had no, absolutely no idea that real attachment or what I recognize now as intimacy was real or what it would mean to me. I rejected the fairy tale but tried to live it anyway in some ways- maybe a certain guy would be the one to reveal all that to me, but probably not. I did get married and it was like I saw my parents... utilitarian. And they divorced when I was young but my dad was never around anyway so it wasn't huge. It was all just kind of an arrangement , the marriage and the family. There was no picture of love and friendship, not at all. There is nothing a partner could have done to win me over. Nothing. Like trying to make a cat into a bird. Just not realistic and why would a cat want to be a bird? Crazy!
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 24, 2019 22:31:51 GMT
@sherry - When I read your DA perspective it helps me appreciate how overwhelming and debilitating being close must be to my ex DA. He doesn’t verbalize his feelings a lot and instead seeks solitude, but when he does confide bits and pieces to me I get the same exact sense of what you’re describing. Recently he didn’t respond to my texts for two weeks- then he texts that “he was sorry to keep me hanging and that my deep texts were too much for him and he needed a minute.” A minute to him, felt much longer to me having that desire for connection. He has such walls and defense mechanisms against closeness. You help me see where he’s coming from and I appreciate that, but at the same time it opens my eyes to how painful and possibly impossible it is for him to maintain closeness. I’d like to be consistent and build trust without being AP triggered. I’m building my connection and security to myself and as a result his pushing away affects me less, but sobering to know how much closeness hurts and repels him. I never dated anyone like him before. I wonder is physical closeness as triggering to a DA as emotional? First I have to explain that being close had never been overwhelming or debilitating to me prior to becoming aware of myself emotionally- because I flat didn't allow it to happen. All that deactivating is to prevent it- so the only reason I have really experienced full on discomfort is when I have tried to stick around past the deactivating thoughts. Does that make sense? My whole gig has been about avoiding the potential. So, prior to the relationship I am in now I didn't feel close, didn't feel bonded, didn't feel overwhelmed. Because when I thought and felt the negatives I just moved away from it all and was ok again. Being dismissive isn't bad all the time, and can actually be pretty fine. Before I discovered that I do want and need closer relationships, it's just the way it was for me and although I felt kind of like the odd one out that didn't debilitate me. To me the arguments I had in my head against relationships sounded perfectly reasonable and like pluses, not negatives. The list is long, the benefits of being unattached. I did NOT see the negatives. There are countless ways to find pseudo- satisfaction and peace in this world that have nothing to do with intimacy. When your priority is not relationship, a lack of one doesn't sting so much. Let's face it- relationships can be a real hassle and quite an inconvenience and that is what a dismissive will try to focus on, at least I did. And it worked for a long time. Having kids, getting older and more mature, experiencing life stressors or just growing spiritually and emotionally as people tend to do over time, has changed this for me. Death of parents, existential questions, and the awareness of love in myself for other people (of course my kids! my friends! people who suffer! ) made me question why I didn't allow that or think it was important for myself. Seeds were planted over time, and I got to a point of really being open to a new way. Having said that- being fully aware of the defenses I have and the absolutely solid walls that I am able to build against vulnerability, I WOULD NOT BOTHER trying to have a relationship with an unaware DA. I just know what the internal mechanism is and it is daunting for me, myself. I get it. I would have no hope for a solid bond with a sleepwalking DA because it's just too deep. It's as hard for a DA to overcome their drive away as it is for an anxious person to overcome their anxiety. Maybe harder, probably harder because they don't ask for help or know they need it. I have been working at this for a long time (in my mind, three years is a very long time to be sticking with someone emotionally) and able to be where I am only because I have worked consciously with it , utilized therapy and a lot of self help, and my partner is also aware and in therapy for himself. If that were not the case I do not see this being possible at all. And, even in spite of that, I STILL have times when I can just feel like I am better off alone. Still. I wonder if I will always have to work with that or if it will just continue to get less believable. I have talked about that quite a lot with my guy over this time, and I was the first person he ever heard express the same things he thinks and feels as an avoidant. It's not an ideal relationship but really more than I ever thought possible or even desirable prior to things changing internally for me. As to whether or not physical closeness is triggering? Remember not all DA are the same degree - there are lots of factors in the mix and a mix of other styles in everyone. So individual. But for me- not so much. I have been non impacted by causal sex or even married sex to men who I wasn't emotionally intimate with. It's the emotional piece for me, the true relationship, that triggers me now. Non- intimate sex or physical closeness is not a big deal. I feel very vulnerable when my partner and I have emotionally intimate sex. So does he. But we enjoy it. It comes with a necessary decompression following it. Thats just the way it is for us at this time. We come close, so close together and then exhale and lighten it up and then come back to stasis. It's not perfectly smooth but that's the general pattern. If we weren't emotionally close I would just be doing the casual thing and not really deactivating out of vulnerability but more out of disinterest, I'd be doing the dismissive thing of just not being available. Anyway- in your situation I personally would advise you to let it go and grieve and move on. I myself, and this is just me, coming from my own experience with myself - I would see no hope or realistic future with the man you have been involved with at all. I can't read his mind but what you share indicates to me, the writing on the wall is there and yes I believe it impossible to get anywhere with him. I am sorry to offend you if I do by saying that. But there is nothing at all to be optimistic about there if you want a real relationship, not from what you share. I'm sorry to say it but I really mean it. This stuff is really deep and hard to get past especially if someone isn't even trying or aware at all. @sherry - Thanks for your detailed response. I’ve come along to accepting he’s done. Whatever will be will be. My journey continues nonetheless and isn’t reliant on him. He’s very much comfortable in his solitude and he tried to be all in with me and opened up emotionally for the first time in his life- and it overwhelmed him. |
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Post by faithopelove on Jul 24, 2019 22:35:42 GMT
I also would like to admit here that I am not proud of the DEACTIVATING THOUGHTS that come into my head when I am shutting down or trying to turn myself away. I think they are ugly and mean thoughts that do not represent the way I feel about people in my heart. I am sure you have read somewhere about how dismissives will focus on or even make up imperfections or faults in their partner or in others as a defense against being too close. This is true and it's gross, because I myself know that people overlook my imperfections and flaws in order to love me- and I am truly loved. I also truly love. These thoughts are automatic- and seem so petty but they are the little devil on my shoulder saying DONT RELY ON THIS. Don't trust. Don't let them too close. This will end badly. So- with this group of amazing professionals whom I admire and respect, and whom I would like to get to know (my pace is too slow for a days long event ) - I had these stupid ridiculous thoughts like: These people are ridiculous with their instant camaraderie. How fake. What terrible boundaries. They think they know me? No one can understand me. I don't belong with these people! I'm an alien and I gotta get out of this stupid place. Look at how he dressed OMG what is that, some kind of embroidery on his vest? How silly. Blingy! Does everyone have to talk so much about every little thought they are having here?! I don't want to do this. Why did I think I could do this? I watched myself having these thoughts and was really not happy about it because this is not how I really roll. I work daily with people and I like people. I do it one on one in an established setting that allows a process, and I'm comfortable and enjoy knowing and relating to many different kinds of people in a meaningful way- but it's at my pace with my boundaries and I am the leader. So different and so safe for me compared to being thrown into the mix. I overcame the thoughts and DISMISSED THEM as a defense But it frustrates me that my brain goes there to get me away from people. Yes it really does frustrate me. I have read the same thing from AP who have silly automatic thoughts when they are anxious so please understand I don't like my thoughts, but I can go along with them to rationalize my withdraw and it's all just a self protective load of shit I am having compassion for and trying to change. Awareness is the first step. These deactivating thoughts disappear when I am able to repair and open up and be vulnerable. They evaporate- they aren't real. But they are indeed a part of a narrative that has kept me at a distance my whole life so it's not always easy to recognize that they aren't real. I am working on all of this. I could have written this - and I am really ashamed of how I have isolated myself and other people in the past. I have hurt people over and over again as a result of my attachment issues - and now that I can really begin to feel just how difficult the emotional pain must have been, I feel really very sad - for myself and for my previous partners.
The thing is - as @sherry says, without recognising this which has taken years, I didn't feel as though there was anything wrong with me - I simply never attached to anyone, ever. I knew this was slightly unusual and always felt slightly superior in that way, but it hasn't been until the past few years where I have grown to realise what an unnatural and isolating life I was constructing for myself. The sad thing is that none of my partners could have done anything different to make anything change. It very much had to come from within. It makes me sad to read people posting here trying to work out how to behave to help an avoidant partner bond with them - in my experience at least, that's wasted time and energy and a road to heartache. Change needs to be internally motivated - and I quite simply didn't see that there was a problem so where was the motivation? It took a lot of work, maturity and a couple of relationships where I began to experience real intimacy - and some friendships, to even begin the journey.
- Yes, and he even sees and admits there’s a problem but he’d rather avoid dealing with it. Path of least resistance. He was so disheartened and depressed bc he couldn’t make it work with me. Now he won’t invest. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 22:41:56 GMT
I'm sorry faithopelove. I know it's awful to experience. I had some AP relationships and they were very painful both ways. Looking back it just never was possible for me and knowing their subsequent outcomes, they didn't have it figured out either. Just a bunch of yuck. It is all just yucky. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 2:02:49 GMT
ocarina, this article has Peter Levine's explanation of avoidant attachment , and how the freeze response shows up in the daily life and relationships of the avoidant. Do you recognize yourself? It's so interesting to know now what is behind it- how the original attachment trauma manifests in the nervous system trauma response. What do you think? I could check all the boxes in that description. Also- there are descriptions of the other styles there too. Avoidant is stage 3 of the trauma response, according to this interpretation .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2019 16:07:20 GMT
I had a really great discussion with my partner this morning about all of this . We talked about the evolution of our interactions over the course of our involvement. What has happened is that we have become more skillful about regulating each other with the ventral vagal influence and didn't know that is what we were doing. We talked about how he has more fight/flight than I do but either way, whichever response is operating in us we keep repairing conflict or triggers by moving into the repair mode of the parasympathetic social bonding mode.
We did not intentionally set out to do this as I have described it here but it has been an evolutionary process as we both improved our own individual responses and sought healing, and brought that to the relationship. That's what has made this a healing relationship for the both of us. We are both very independent in our therapeutic/ self work processes but it comes together in our interactions, and is especially evident in how we have learned to resolve conflict.
I think every couple will have a unique path to this, it won't look the same for every pairing of course. It's just really pleasing to see how it happens for us. And, he's actually glad that I can analyze it this way and explain it because it makes him trust this more, there is a method to our madness and when we make sense of it it strengthens our trust.
It's really beautiful. And it all had roots in our physiology. What a life changing example of the mind/body connection.
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Post by ocarina on Jul 25, 2019 16:31:45 GMT
ocarina , this article has Peter Levine's explanation of avoidant attachment , and how the freeze response shows up in the daily life and relationships of the avoidant. Do you recognize yourself? It's so interesting to know now what is behind it- how the original attachment trauma manifests in the nervous system trauma response. What do you think? I could check all the boxes in that description. Also- there are descriptions of the other styles there too. Avoidant is stage 3 of the trauma response, according to this interpretation . This is really good - and yes I totally recognise myself - the detachment from body, the intense self reliance - that person who never goes to the doctor, who's always just fine - and because it seems so on the outside, the person who others don't think to support because it appears I have it all sorted. Your description of relationships as a kind of functional union also resonates with me - and it wasn't until my 40s that I could see anything else in a relationship. That must have been so painful for my partners and now that I have experienced vulnerability and intimacy I recognise how important this is in my life.
This was interesting: "In relationships, this freeze state often plays out in hesitation, fear, lack of engagement, minimal expression, low motivation, limited enthusiasm, and greater attunement to anger and controlling actions in others"
I am not sure if I am interpreting this correctly, but I am super super sensitive to anger in others and often feel very put upon in relationships by conflict - I feel blamed, demeaned and shamed and therefore further wall myself off. The thing I am beginning to recognise is that the anger may appear a personal attack but is usually a fleeting reflection of the other persons mental state and I am not being attacked - it's just a skewed perception. Do you recognise that @sherry?
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Post by ocarina on Jul 25, 2019 16:35:10 GMT
"As we learn to meet ourselves with empathy and compassion, our experience of life can change. It may become a little softer, a little more manageable. With awareness and attention, meeting self can feel like coming home, and we can begin to elicit and receive from the world what we have needed all along."
This is beautiful.
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) - I had these stupid ridiculous thoughts like:
