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Post by tnr9 on Jan 4, 2018 13:25:33 GMT
I don't know if I am also more Avoidant on the spectrum but I find a friend who calls me almost everyday to talk about the trivia in her life quite annoying...eg this colleague has been rude to her, the boss hasn't been sympathetic to her illness, the date she is meeting might be a bit overweight but has a sense of humor, so she isn't sure....I don't know if it's normal to feel this way. I prefer conversations that have a bit more meaning and heft, eg. I enjoy talking to ex DA because even as we commiserated about something that is happening in our lives, eg kids addicted to iGadgets, we related it to larger trends in society and their implications, sharing info about Silicon Valley executives abstaining from them where their own children are concerned, etc. I also prefer sleeping in my own apartment for needed privacy and away from the gaze of another. Plus I need time for solitary pursuits like reading. I reckon I'm Secure as I am "elastic" enough to be present for most people, but perhaps I'm leaning towards more Avoidant! Honestly...I don't relate to the girl you are describing at all..and we all have the ability to experience our own flavor of avoidant, secure, anxious precoccupied depending on the individual person. i also prefer deep onversations and people who just complain daily and show no gratitude or depth cause me to run away. If a guy likes me and I can sense he has not taken any time to really get to know me...no conversations at all...then I put up walls. I took a test thinking about my ex and I scored equal on secure and AP. I think this simply points to the fact that, as people, we are complex...we cannot be defined solely be our attachment style. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 17:06:17 GMT
I don't know if I am also more Avoidant on the spectrum but I find a friend who calls me almost everyday to talk about the trivia in her life quite annoying...eg this colleague has been rude to her, the boss hasn't been sympathetic to her illness, the date she is meeting might be a bit overweight but has a sense of humor, so she isn't sure....I don't know if it's normal to feel this way. It hits me as she complained about an old friend of hers who would simply disappear at times when they were on vacation together - she expected the friend to be there to do things together since they arranged to go on vacation together. For me, it is perfectly fine to do things separately on some days as we might all like different pursuits. I linger far longer than most of my friends in museums and I'd rather do that on my own and meet them later instead of cutting short a pursuit that I enjoy. This is where I'm feeling more cautious about this friend as she doesn't seem to respect others' need for space and respite from all-day chatter - it also strikes me as a bit self-centered. I hinted to her that perhaps her friend needed some alone time but she just went on and on that she thinks it is unhealthy and bizarre, that one should spend time together when one goes on vacation together, etc...she has quite a strong opinion about what's right or wrong too. I prefer conversations that have a bit more meaning and heft, eg. I enjoy talking to ex DA because even as we commiserated about something that is happening in our lives, eg kids addicted to iGadgets, we related it to larger trends in society and their implications, sharing info about Silicon Valley executives abstaining from them where their own children are concerned, etc. If it is something that interests me I don't mind going on as long as both parties remain enthusiastic about the shared experience. I also prefer sleeping in my own apartment for needed privacy and away from the gaze of another. Plus I need time for solitary pursuits like reading. I reckon I'm Secure as I am "elastic" enough to be present for most people, but perhaps I'm leaning towards more Avoidant as I am becoming conscious that I'd prefer an Avoidant over an AP! Sounds secure to me. I don't believe is anymore healthy to need constant connection than it is to need total solitude. Secure is about balance. People do best to learn how to interact with people but also how to be ok during the times the are alone learning to be good company for ourselves. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 0:15:34 GMT
Sorry if it seems that way, but I don't mean to direct my post at any particular post/poster. I just spent another evening with her and a very chatty lady she befriended...they talked non-stop from 7pm till the cafe closing at 10pm. I felt quite tired, and I think it showed, unfortunately, even though I didn't mean to make them feel that way. I feel suffocated by this friend, she NEEDS someone to listen to her non-stop talking, and cannot grasp why someone who is with her might need some solitary time. I like her other qualities though, she is quick to help others and is generally a lot of fun if there are others around and she doesn't overwhelm me at once.
I am wondering if she is a vulnerable Narcissist rather than an AP? I think Jaegar posted some interesting facts about co-morbid Narcissism with some APs, just as there is co-morbidity with grandiose Narcissism and DA.
I might repost it here if he doesn't mind!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 0:17:31 GMT
Jaeger Avatar
Dec 29, 2017 1:56:30 GMT 1 Jaeger said:
Shamelessly stolen from another person's post, but I think it may elucidate a thing or two on this subject :
"The concepts of equifinality and multifinality may be helpful. The first involves the same cause or condition resulting in multiple outcomes. The second involves different causes or conditions resulting in the same outcome. Avoidant attachment may eventually be expressed in several ways.I would encourage you to looks at the writings of Theodore Millon on the development of Narcissistic Personality Disorder as he suggested that it may stem from either extreme of parenting: neglect or excessive admiration.
Concerning the effects of attachment, there has not been much research. In a 1999 dissertation (Betty Feintuch) secure attachment showed a negative correlation with narcissism while fearful-avoidant and preoccupied attachment showed robust positive correlations. A2013 dissertation (Mark Ettensohn) that found "grandiose narcissistic traits were positively related to dismissing-avoidant attachment style (positive self model, negative other model), while scores of vulnerable narcissistic traits were positively related to fearful-avoidant attachment style (negative self model, negative other model). In contrast, a 2002 dissertation (by Kelly Ann Dickinson and published in 2003) suggested, "[D]espite the observable traits consistent with character pathology, [grandiose narcissists] reported secure adult attachment orientations [consistent with positive self-representations: Secure, dismissive] and denied interpersonal distress related to their interpersonal problems. Vulnerable narcissistic individuals were represented by high ratings on avoidant personality disorder and their self report of fearful attachment."
Concerning empathy and narcissism, there is a research that narcissists have deficient and dysfunctional empathy subject to a range of motivational and situational factors. In addition, there are two types of empathy: Emotional and cognitive. Narcissists tend to be lacking in emotional empathy but not necessarily cognitive empathy."
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 5, 2018 0:20:35 GMT
Sorry if it seems that way, but I don't mean to direct my post at any particular post/poster. I just spent another evening with her and a very chatty lady she befriended...they talked non-stop from 7pm till the cafe closing at 10pm. I felt quite tired, and I think it showed, unfortunately, even though I didn't mean to make them feel that way. I feel suffocated by this friend, she NEEDS someone to listen to her non-stop talking. I am wondering if she is a vulnerable Narcissist rather than an AP? I think Jaegar posted some interesting facts about co-morbid Narcissism with some APs, just as there is co-morbidity with grandiose Narcissism and DA. I might repost it here if he doesn't mind! I was thinking the same thing....that perhaps she falls into a different flavor of Narc.....because it's like she is about herself. Now, I can get needy...don't get me wrong...but I do acknowledge my friends and try to repay their kindnesses back by asking how they are or listening at a different time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 0:28:29 GMT
I was thinking the same thing....that perhaps she falls into a different flavor of Narc.....because it's like she is about herself. Now, I can get needy...don't get me wrong...but I do acknowledge my friends and try to repay their kindnesses back by asking how they are or listening at a different time. Yes, I think Attachment styles are so complex along several spectrum, and in the end, completely subjective. However, there is a problem with inability to feel empathy for the partner, whether one is AP or DA, and that's where greater co-morbidity with Narcissism (of both flavors "suffocation" and "neglect") creeps in. |
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Post by Jaeger on Jan 5, 2018 1:01:45 GMT
I think Jaegar posted some interesting facts about co-morbid Narcissism with some APs, just as there is co-morbidity with grandiose Narcissism and DA. I might repost it here if he doesn't mind! I don't mind at all! Anything that sheds some more light on the complicated interpersonal relationships we all have is a positive to me. I hope it is of benefit to someone. |
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