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Post by learningalongtheway on Jul 21, 2017 6:00:08 GMT
How do other DAs deal with feeling suffocated by their partners?Throughout my 8 mo relationship w/an AP I feel like I had to be "on and attentive" at any moment. Any daydreaming by me was interpreted as me being cold and uncaring. My ex had to be near me or touching me at all times. One time, I decided to sleep on the sofa since I felt nauseous, and didn't want to disturb his sleep. He accused me of being angry with him and trying to avoid him.
Another time we were just hanging out in my apt and he told me he was going to take a nap. I thought this was a great time to catch up on some work. After telling him that I would be doing work he became irate, and said that he I didn't want to hang out with him and that he would not have driven to my apt for the weekend.
I felt like he requires an explanation for every small action I took, and most of them had nothing to do with him. In the end it was exhausting and overwhelming....like constantly putting out small fires. Reassurance never seemed to do anything because he never took me at my word. Nothing I did was good enough, I didn't like him enough, I wasn't affectionate enough etc...
Eventually, I just felt like he didn't actually care at all about me and he just wanted someone to fill a hole in his heart. He just wanted a warm body to do x, y, and z so he could feel good.
Have other DAs had similar experiences? Have you felt "used" in relationships? How can this be avoided? Thanks for reading.
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Post by cricket on Jul 21, 2017 15:07:04 GMT
This is very insightful for me. I am AP. Not as intense anymore. I have done a lot of work on myself to change it but in my 20' s i was totally the way u desribed. It is this insatiable hunger to be validated by the one u love romantically. You're right though, nothing will satisfy that hunger. And funny thing is we really dont see it as anything other than Im trying to get them to love me as much as I love them, not realizing our love is tainted by our insecurities and attachment trauma. I had no idea you would view it as "being used" . Thank you for that. I am still a work in progress but have come a long way. Does the person you are with have any idea you feel this way or any idea of how they are behaving? It took years for me to realize what I was doing was not loving but needing the person.
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Post by learningalongtheway on Jul 21, 2017 21:32:04 GMT
This is very insightful for me. I am AP. Not as intense anymore. I have done a lot of work on myself to change it but in my 20' s i was totally the way u desribed. It is this insatiable hunger to be validated by the one u love romantically. You're right though, nothing will satisfy that hunger. And funny thing is we really dont see it as anything other than Im trying to get them to love me as much as I love them, not realizing our love is tainted by our insecurities and attachment trauma. I had no idea you would view it as "being used" . Thank you for that. I am still a work in progress but have come a long way. Does the person you are with have any idea you feel this way or any idea of how they are behaving? It took years for me to realize what I was doing was not loving but needing the person. I don't think they have any idea I fell this way. I think that APs think that since they do/buy things for their partner, they are de facto good partners. I appreciated the things my AP did for me, but I felt alone in the relationship because he never listened to my words or trusted me. He often bought me things that I didn't like (coffee prepared his way, even though I like my coffee black), which indicated that he wasn't actually thinking about his actions...just "performing" in a way that I should appreciate and therefore validate him. Thus, I felt like anyone could be inserted into his relationship; there was no actual desire to know me as an individual. However, I don't think that a secure person would necessarily see things this way. DA attachment arises from childhood experiences where the individuals is "used" for another purpose (validating the parent etc), and neglected emotionally. So being in a relationship with someone who does not values my words and experiences is triggering. Again I understand that this isn't secure functioning, but I think it is integral to understanding why a DA would pull away. The last straw for me was accusations of cheating. All I could do was deny them and explain my actions. But if my words have no meaning to you, then nothing I say matters, so why waste the energy saying it? If you have no interest in things I like to do, then I need to do them myself, away from you... And I do think that DAs devalue things the AP does for them, but it's not due to narcissism, it's a reflection of their negative childhood experiences. For example, my parents did not neglect me physically; I had all those needs met. But I had to self-soother emotionally. Since I can provide for myself financially, I just don't value material offerings as much as other people. Having things didn't help me enjoy my childhood.
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Post by gaynxious on Jul 21, 2017 22:56:38 GMT
There is a lot here. Firstly, I find it strange that in your experience you felt your AP did or bought you things and emotionally checked out. Of the love languages I would think that buying gifts and doing things would be more of a DA means of showing affection. My DA would buy me things like Pokémon cards, which I really enjoyed as a kid. But I hadn't played in years and never talked about them. I felt like he just latched on to something I said and never really thought about whether I would like it or not. APs would typically like quality time, physical affection/sex, and maybe complements as love languages from their partner. Secondly, You say your AP never wanted to know you as a real person. Frankly I find that perplexing as I see myriads of comments by APs saying the same about their DAs. DAs often don't want to talk about problems or feelings so we feel their is no way to get to know them. The fundamental understanding of attachment is APs crave intimacy, we want to know our partners and feel that they know and understand us. Your experience is your experience but I can't help but wonder how much you actually enabled your partner to learn who you were. It is their responsibility to try but if they feel it's not well received eventually they will stop trying.
We deff have a problem of expecting out partners to regulate our emotions. In our minds if you make us mad you meant to do it or you should know better by now. But I deff think we both contribute. You say you felt like you were always putting out fires or had to be constantly vigilant. But I suspect that a secure person prolly wouldn't feel the amount of effort predicting what their partners wanted and how they might react would be as demanding as you felt it was.
My parents were married for 15 years and the only reason it was so brief was because my mother died. In all their years together I don't think either of them EVER slept on the couch no matter how sick or angry at each other they were. Because it's just not generally something couples do. But that's were attachment comes in, we each evaluate what we think is normal based on our attachment style. A DAmight not bat an eye about sleeping on the couch because at some level they don't need to sleep together. A secure partner might find this strange and upon getting an explanationaccept it at face value. An AP will see this as bizarre and question whether such a universal experience, being sick, would result in a behavior they may have never thought would seem reasonable. And likely asses some other reason is more probable. I think it is important for APs to realize the problems they bring into the relationship, DAs certainly take more of the blame than they deserve. It's also insightful to hear the DA experience as it is shared so little. But I think it's always good to remember it takes two to tango. The trap is the result of two fundamentally opposed needs coming together and the suffering experienced shouldn't necessarily lead to blame.
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Post by learningalongtheway on Jul 22, 2017 2:51:16 GMT
There is a lot here. Firstly, I find it strange that in your experience you felt your AP did or bought you things and emotionally checked out. Of the love languages I would think that buying gifts and doing things would be more of a DA means of showing affection. My DA would buy me things like Pokémon cards, which I really enjoyed as a kid. But I hadn't played in years and never talked about them. I felt like he just latched on to something I said and never really thought about whether I would like it or not. APs would typically like quality time, physical affection/sex, and maybe complements as love languages from their partner. Secondly, You say your AP never wanted to know you as a real person. Frankly I find that perplexing as I see myriads of comments by APs saying the same about their DAs. DAs often don't want to talk about problems or feelings so we feel their is no way to get to know them. The fundamental understanding of attachment is APs crave intimacy, we want to know our partners and feel that they know and understand us. Your experience is your experience but I can't help but wonder how much you actually enabled your partner to learn who you were. It is their responsibility to try but if they feel it's not well received eventually they will stop trying. We deff have a problem of expecting out partners to regulate our emotions. In our minds if you make us mad you meant to do it or you should know better by now. But I deff think we both contribute. You say you felt like you were always putting out fires or had to be constantly vigilant. But I suspect that a secure person prolly wouldn't feel the amount of effort predicting what their partners wanted and how they might react would be as demanding as you felt it was. My parents were married for 15 years and the only reason it was so brief was because my mother died. In all their years together I don't think either of them EVER slept on the couch no matter how sick or angry at each other they were. Because it's just not generally something couples do. But that's were attachment comes in, we each evaluate what we think is normal based on our attachment style. A DAmight not bat an eye about sleeping on the couch because at some level they don't need to sleep together. A secure partner might find this strange and upon getting an explanationaccept it at face value. An AP will see this as bizarre and question whether such a universal experience, being sick, would result in a behavior they may have never thought would seem reasonable. And likely asses some other reason is more probable. I think it is important for APs to realize the problems they bring into the relationship, DAs certainly take more of the blame than they deserve. It's also insightful to hear the DA experience as it is shared so little. But I think it's always good to remember it takes two to tango. The trap is the result of two fundamentally opposed needs coming together and the suffering experienced shouldn't necessarily lead to blame. I did not say the AP was "emotionally checked out". Emotionally superficial is a better descriptor. Gestures of affection were oriented around getting me to reassure him in the relationship. They had nothing to do with me as an individual. I'm sure you do find it perplexing that I would say that. The DAs are strongly outnumbered on this board so it's illogical to compare the number of time you heard an AP "x" compared to a DA. To further clarify, I mean that my ex didn't care to know me as an individual. He talked very little about my interests and never asked me about my goals/plans in life. The things he mentioned that he did like about me were very superficial and replaceable in my opinion, ex. finances, looks, education etc. It's also true that we were very different. He was blue collar grew up poor, me being educated academic growing up lower middle class. Maybe he just felt like he couldn't take about my interests. I do concede that DAs are harder to get to know. But remember that DAs do want connection. I think we are just so used to being rejected in chdhood for sharing our ideas. I remember a time when my ex described an opinion I had as "stupid" and that I should think otherwise because the topic was "not that hard to understand". I just got up and left. Knowing more about attachment theory I'm sure that was a very triggering experience for him. My main point is that DAs want to open up about thoughts and feelings but if you shoot us down we withdraw/retreat BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE HAD TO DO TO SURVIVE CHILDHOOD. I acknowledge that secures wouldn't necessarily have these issues in my original post.... It doesn't make sense to me cite your parents always sleeping in the same bed, and subsequently generalize that to the whole population. It's also worth mentioning that we went to bed together (then I decided to get up), sick is the wrong word, more like drunk, hot and nauseous in the August heat, the bed we slept in was a twin size, and couch I slept on was less than seven feet away in a studio apartment. No where in this post do I blame my ex, and I never suggest that he is solely responsible for our breakup. The purpose of this post is to provide an explanation (not a justification) from a DA for their behavior because I keeping readings post by APs saying "I don't know what happened!" If you have more criticisms of DAs the DA forum is the place for those
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Post by howpredictable on Jul 22, 2017 15:36:31 GMT
How do other DAs deal with feeling suffocated by their partners? Have you felt "used" in relationships? How can this be avoided? Thanks for reading. I'm DA with an "overlay" of narcissistic tendencies, courtesy of my parents' own narcissism and their style of bringing me up. I struggle constantly with feeling used to reassure people, to provide for them, to be asked to listen, express concern, solve their problems. I also chose a profession where this is my role. And I have two children who naturally needed a lot from me as they were growing up, and now that they are teens I find some old childhood wounds (around my own sense of being unheard and unseen, which I think caused my DA attachment style) are getting triggered by their self-absorption and unwillingness to pay me much heed these days.
I echo your comment about being expected to play a "role". I think with my narcissism operating overtop of those expectations, my solution is to dive right into it, with full gusto, until I can't take it anymore and then I withdraw or leave entirely. I play along at doing (or over-doing) what is expected of me.... until I get exhausted and frustrated and resentful.
This plays out in romantic relationships: I am the ideal partner for a while, and then I start getting this anxious feeling that despite all I'm doing for the other person I'm not really being "seen" for myself and my own needs. Then the switch kind of flips to the "off" position and the relationship starts to unravel.
As for how to avoid it.... I have not solved that one. If I had, I suppose I wouldn't be single right now, or so often.
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Post by joanneg on Jul 22, 2017 23:07:07 GMT
I wish I could have spoken with my DA about attachment styles. I only found out about them after he ended it. It was ended with a "fade" out...just started to ignore me and complete break down of communication.
I really wish I could have told him about it however if I'd have known about attachment styles then I'm not sure he would have even listened. The end of our relationship (after almost a year) had no conversation or chat or anything... we met up afterwards to get stuff we had belong to each other.. he literally picked up his stuff and left,.. nothing...
He could just not have any emotional conversation or anything to do with feelings... How would I have brought up something like attachment styles?
I feel like it's my fault because if I ever tried to connect or talk he completed retreated ...
It's so sad that this is the case... I keep thinking he will just click get over it and move on happily with someone else
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 17:42:39 GMT
This is very insightful for me. I am AP. Not as intense anymore. I have done a lot of work on myself to change it but in my 20' s i was totally the way u desribed. It is this insatiable hunger to be validated by the one u love romantically. You're right though, nothing will satisfy that hunger. And funny thing is we really dont see it as anything other than Im trying to get them to love me as much as I love them, not realizing our love is tainted by our insecurities and attachment trauma. I had no idea you would view it as "being used" . Thank you for that. I am still a work in progress but have come a long way. Does the person you are with have any idea you feel this way or any idea of how they are behaving? It took years for me to realize what I was doing was not loving but needing the person. I don't think they have any idea I fell this way. I think that APs think that since they do/buy things for their partner, they are de facto good partners. I appreciated the things my AP did for me, but I felt alone in the relationship because he never listened to my words or trusted me. He often bought me things that I didn't like (coffee prepared his way, even though I like my coffee black), which indicated that he wasn't actually thinking about his actions...just "performing" in a way that I should appreciate and therefore validate him. Thus, I felt like anyone could be inserted into his relationship; there was no actual desire to know me as an individual. However, I don't think that a secure person would necessarily see things this way. DA attachment arises from childhood experiences where the individuals is "used" for another purpose (validating the parent etc), and neglected emotionally. So being in a relationship with someone who does not values my words and experiences is triggering. Again I understand that this isn't secure functioning, but I think it is integral to understanding why a DA would pull away. The last straw for me was accusations of cheating. All I could do was deny them and explain my actions. But if my words have no meaning to you, then nothing I say matters, so why waste the energy saying it? If you have no interest in things I like to do, then I need to do them myself, away from you... And I do think that DAs devalue things the AP does for them, but it's not due to narcissism, it's a reflection of their negative childhood experiences. For example, my parents did not neglect me physically; I had all those needs met. But I had to self-soother emotionally. Since I can provide for myself financially, I just don't value material offerings as much as other people. Having things didn't help me enjoy my childhood. learningalongtheway, I wish I had seen this thread when you posted it. I was not on the board over the summer. You and I seem to have a LOT in common. I completely relate. My ex AP also bought me material things which often made no sense. I never, ever wear jewelry but he always bought it for me, then got upset when I didn't wear it much. I grew up in a household similar. I was provided for materially, but not emotionally with some physical abuse. I also do not value material gifts, but he never understood that. I would always tell him not to buy me expensive things, but it was in his head that that's was what I wanted. I can relate to everything in your initial post. I too was accused of cheating if I wanted to go out with my gfs for girls night out. When I had a cold and slept in another room so that he wouldn't get sick, I was accused of not wanting to be with him. If I had work stress and my mind was elsewhere for the night, I was accused of being cold and uncaring. I think we are attracted to people that remind us of our childhood, unfortunately. My mother was very anxious, but never took the time to get to know me. She still doesn't know me and buys me gifts that make no sense. At the end of my relationship with him, I felt "used up". I tried to give him the constant company, the constant contact, but it was never enough. If I stayed on the phone with him one day for 2 hours, but not the next, it meant I didn't love him. It didn't matter either way, because he never believed that I loved him. I don't have any answers. I just wanted you to know that I can relate and your feelings are valid. I could not make it work with my ex AP and we broke up. He still texts me every week and it has been nearly 10 years. I don't respond. I can tell you that I am in a relationship currently with a secure man and it is the complete opposite of what I experienced with the ex. We are both independent and I can have as many girls nights that I want and he isn't upset at all. He's happy that I have my own friends. I think I can best describe it as he's unselfish with my time. He doesn't need all my time and attention, he's happy to share me. . I hope you have gotten some peace since this post.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 20, 2017 18:25:04 GMT
Wow...this hit HARD....not respecting boundaries and making someone feel used is the furthest thing I wanted to do in my relationship with my ex. It is unfortunate that there is no manual...no way to get to know a person's needs unless you are able to ask the right questions without seeming intrusive. My ex was very suspicious of questions and he had a strong need to define himself....I kept tripping up. There was one night he said it was hard to sleep with another person because he was used to spreading out like a starfish...so he spent the night on the couch. I admit in my journal...I took this a bit personally...but I did not say anything to him. The next day he slept in the bed as if nothing had happened.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 23, 2017 22:44:26 GMT
I think what I am gathering from reading this and other's posts from the Avoidant perspective is that you have been unfairly labeled by the Anxious partners in your life without those individuals understanding your needs. I do think we end up triggering each....accidentally....because what feels normal to one, feels smothering to the other and what feels normal to the other feels like abandonment/rejection to the first. I am truly grateful to read this as it helps me to grow.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 12:55:39 GMT
Wow....I believe that I'm a Secure but I find the relationships you described with APs suffocating as well. I wonder though which is easier - for an AP to turn Secure or for a DA? I always thought it's the former, but I may be wrong.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 2, 2018 13:44:55 GMT
I think the answer lies in really understanding both your own history and triggers and your partners. What I love about these forums is that I get to learn about the ways i "tthought" I was being there for my partner, but wasn't in a way he needed and how I interpreted things he did as distancing, when they may not have been. He still matters so much to me....and yes...the actual man....not my attachment system or my idea of him. I did care about his passions and his dreams and I fully believe in him.....but I admit that I tripped up regarding trust when we were together and I really had an issue with space apart....but I own that I must work on those things.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 19:51:41 GMT
Wow....I believe that I'm a Secure but I find the relationships you described with APs suffocating as well. I wonder though which is easier - for an AP to turn Secure or for a DA? I always thought it's the former, but I may be wrong. I think it's individual. Each is a spectrum, so perhaps the closer you are to secure, the higher the chances of getting there? Plus, I think if an insecure is in a relationship with a secure, they can become more secure over time.
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Post by Jaeger on Jan 3, 2018 1:18:24 GMT
Wow....I believe that I'm a Secure but I find the relationships you described with APs suffocating as well. I wonder though which is easier - for an AP to turn Secure or for a DA? I always thought it's the former, but I may be wrong. I'm not sure if it's easier, per se, but generally I think the anxious are much more likely to look for and find attachment theory and perform the necessary introspection to get started on the path to becoming secure. The reason for this, to my mind, is that (again, generalizing) an anxious - whether aware or not - is overly focused on their own role in causing the breakup, looking for all the reasons and all they could have done differently to make it work. Whereas an avoidant is usually more apt to downplay their own role in the breakup and move on to find 'the one' who will fit them perfectly.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 13:09:11 GMT
I don't know if I am also more Avoidant on the spectrum but I find a friend who calls me almost everyday to talk about the trivia in her life quite annoying...eg this colleague has been rude to her, the boss hasn't been sympathetic to her illness, the date she is meeting might be a bit overweight but has a sense of humor, so she isn't sure....I don't know if it's normal to feel this way.
It hits me as she complained about an old friend of hers who would simply disappear at times when they were on vacation together - she expected the friend to be there to do things together since they arranged to go on vacation together. For me, it is perfectly fine to do things separately on some days as we might all like different pursuits. I linger far longer than most of my friends in museums and I'd rather do that on my own and meet them later instead of cutting short a pursuit that I enjoy.
This is where I'm feeling more cautious about this friend as she doesn't seem to respect others' need for space and respite from all-day chatter - it also strikes me as a bit self-centered.
I hinted to her that perhaps her friend needed some alone time but she just went on and on that she thinks it is unhealthy and bizarre, that one should spend time together when one goes on vacation together, etc...she has quite a strong opinion about what's right or wrong too.
I prefer conversations that have a bit more meaning and heft, eg. I enjoy talking to ex DA because even as we commiserated about something that is happening in our lives, eg kids addicted to iGadgets, we related it to larger trends in society and their implications, sharing info about Silicon Valley executives abstaining from them where their own children are concerned, etc. If it is something that interests me I don't mind going on as long as both parties remain enthusiastic about the shared experience.
I also prefer sleeping in my own apartment for needed privacy and away from the gaze of another.
Plus I need time for solitary pursuits like reading.
I reckon I'm Secure as I am "elastic" enough to be present for most people, but perhaps I'm leaning towards more Avoidant as I am becoming conscious that I'd prefer an Avoidant over an AP!
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