soho
Junior Member
Posts: 54 
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Post by soho on Aug 20, 2017 7:20:08 GMT
Sounds difficult...
I once had a relation with a secure. Everything was fine but she wanted to move close to her family and live the same "simple" life as her parents. I didn't like that idea, it seemed restricting, boring. In a way this would have been the case. Living in a small town, going to holiday to resorts only,... But I did compare her to my then best friend, now wife; a high performing DA with connections all over the world.
I had a lot of fun with my secure ex (maybe mostly because I loved her and she loved me), but we weren't on the same page with regards to interests. However, I don't know whether it would have been possibe to meet in the middle and be happy with my secure ex if I wouldn't have been best friend with my wife then. I loved my ex but didn't look up to her the way I did to my then best friend.
Even though the relationship with my best friend seemed pure platonic to me, my ex wanted me to quit her. I didn't. My ex broke up with me and shortly after that I started a relationship with my best friend.
Now I live in a nice house in an interesting city, I have 2 wonderful kids, but I have the feeling my wife is often looking down on me and most of all, she doesn t really love me. I still miss the love I got from my secure ex.
So that's my experience. Dangerous to compare both situations.
I was wondering: Is there anyway a connection between the 2 of you? Apart from the love-aspect, do you match? If you forget the 5 years with your DA ex and think of who you were before, would you have a different view on the guy you're now dating? Are you opening yourself already?
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Post by jaleesa on Aug 20, 2017 11:19:37 GMT
Thank you for your answer soho! I think I wouldn't be interested in him and would find him boring without the experience with my ex. But my last relationship really was an eyeopener to me, I never want to go there ever again. I've always had these whirlwind romances with men I wanted to "fix", which were actually really great relationships in the beginning, until reality sunk in and I realized we were never a good match to begin with. They all cheated on me, they all had some sort of addiction and they always became distant. I just never had the courage to leave because of my fear of being alone. I am very aware of the fact that I'm always looking for tension, but I know now that this is not always a good sign. We do have similar interests and values and we talk a lot. This is a relief, because my ex was very secretive and never talked about anything. He knows about my past and he's very understanding, but I can't help the fact that I see him more as a friend than as a romantic partner. Do you regret that you started a relationship with your best friend? What would you have done if you knew then what you know now? Do you think it can ever be best of both worlds? I'm so sorry your wife doesn't love you. That must be really hard?  |
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soho
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by soho on Aug 20, 2017 13:23:48 GMT
It could be interesting to analyze what you're looking for in the DAs and why. Understanding this could change your view on the partner you need. During the discussions with my therapist I've realized that the fact my successful grandmother was looking down on my father may have had a bigger impact on me than what I expected. I married a successful woman but maybe I needed a lovely down to earth person more. Do you regret that you started a relationship with your best friend? What would you have done if you knew then what you know now? Do you think it can ever be best of both worlds? I'm so sorry your wife doesn't love you. That must be really hard? Not sure if I regret it. Probably yes. But I must say in the beginning she helped me to grow, she's done a lot of good things and I've learned a lot from my wife even though sometimes her pushing was contraproductive. Would I have done the same with the knowledge I have now? Probably not, but it's only since a couple of months I 've lost hope. I've put a lot of energy to improve the relationship, but I've realized my wife will always find excuses not to come closer to me. I'm trying the 180 rule now and will read No more Mr nice guy soon. But that will most likely be the last attempt to improve the situation. I may have stated it incorrectly. My wife does love me, but not to the same extend as I love her. If the average amount of love one needs and give is 5, I may want and give 7 and my wife needs and gives 3. But she's happy with our relationship since I suppose we re at 3 or 4 together. |
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Post by jaleesa on Aug 20, 2017 14:43:50 GMT
It could be interesting to analyze what you're looking for in the DAs and why. Understanding this could change your view on the partner you need. Yes! I have learned that both my parents are avoidant as well. They're genuinely good people and I know they love me, but they never expressed their love on an emotional level. We never talk about feelings and they never say they love me, so basically I've learned to suppress my emotions when I grew up and I never felt good enough. It seems like I'm chasing emotionally unavailable men to earn the validation I never got from my parents. Reliving childhood all over again. It's weird how this works and I still don't fully understand why I'm attracted to this, instead of men who are actually able to give me this validation. Perhaps avoidant men are "safe" because I don't want people to come close either. I crave intimacy and do make an effort though. I don't know.. It's just weird haha. How long are you and your wife together? Do you feel she's open to change? It's hard to do all the hard work on your own! |
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Post by cricket on Aug 20, 2017 15:24:46 GMT
Jaleesa- I feel this happen to me too. I can totally relate.
You are right about seeking validation from men because of parents. I do that because of my father and really I am scared to be close which is why DA's are perfect to replay that scenario over and over again. I am going to therapy and working on forgiving myself and my father for the past.
Maybe this means it is just too soon for u to be in a relationship? Or maybe u can just tell him you can only offer friendship at this time. I don't believe we have to make ourselves like every nice guy who likes us. I'd rather be happily alone than force myself. There's lots of nice guys out there and when the time is right you will b attracted to one of them.
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Post by jaleesa on Aug 20, 2017 16:17:22 GMT
Jaleesa- I feel this happen to me too. I can totally relate. You are right about seeking validation from men because of parents. I do that because of my father and really I am scared to be close which is why DA's are perfect to replay that scenario over and over again. I am going to therapy and working on forgiving myself and my father for the past. Maybe this means it is just too soon for u to be in a relationship? Or maybe u can just tell him you can only offer friendship at this time. I don't believe we have to make ourselves like every nice guy who likes us. I'd rather be happily alone than force myself. There's lots of nice guys out there and when the time is right you will b attracted to one of them. Ah you're right! Thank you! Do you believe you will ever be genuinely attracted to secure guys? I'm scared I never will be although it would be best for me. |
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Post by cricket on Aug 20, 2017 23:57:47 GMT
I'm not sure..ive really gotten ok w the idea that I may be solo forever. It doesn't sound like a negative thing anymore. At the same time since I am working on myself I think I would like to practice being close to someone that also wants to be close AND that I actually am attracted to physically and emotionally. You never know what's in store for the future.
Are you going to keep seeing that guy?
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soho
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by soho on Aug 21, 2017 7:47:32 GMT
How long are you and your wife together? Do you feel she's open to change? It's hard to do all the hard work on your own! We've been together for approx 15 years now, but apart from the fact that we were good friends, there was never a real harmony or balance in the relationship. She was the high flyer, and she often said I was OK but it would be better for the relationship if I performed better, became less anxious,... however she wasn't supportive on that. On the contrary, she always used my "underperformance" as excuses. Since we were good friends and still appreciate each other, she's was willing to improve our relationship. We went to couples therapy, and even though we fighted so often, we connected again at the end of each session. I know I too often took things personally, but the sad thing was that she was convinced that in the end it was me who had to become a better person if I wanted to save the relationship. Fortunately my wife agreed to see a therapist soon. I insisted in that since she ended up spending most days doing nothing but researching things to buy and chatting with friends. I really appreciate she will be seeing a therapist but she s already warned me this therapist may give her the strenght to no longer accept my "misbehaviour". Example of how she sees me: My wife recently said that she may want another child and since most likely she wouldn t find someone else on time it would have to be with me. BTW: I'm not perfect at all and I have been somewhat neurotic and needy in the past, but I doing better the last years. I m still the nice guy doing most of the housework and giving my wife a lot of space. jaleesa: you're going through tough times. Good luck! Maybe the guy you re dating is not thrilling enough or you may need some more time, but I hope you will give secures a try. |
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Post by jaleesa on Aug 21, 2017 9:08:09 GMT
I'm not sure..ive really gotten ok w the idea that I may be solo forever. It doesn't sound like a negative thing anymore. At the same time since I am working on myself I think I would like to practice being close to someone that also wants to be close AND that I actually am attracted to physically and emotionally. You never know what's in store for the future. Are you going to keep seeing that guy? Wow I really respect you for that. My friend is actually single for 3 years now, after 15 years of relationship hopping. All terrible relationships and her last relationship was with a fullblown narcissist. This forced her to go to therapy and she's never been so happy in her entire life. I think it's hard for most anxious to think about a relationship-free life, but I think it's inly healthy to be good by yourself. I don't think I'm going to keep seeing him. I feel so guilty all the time It's not fair to him and he deserves someone who would want to walk to the moon and back for him. This forum reminds me of a lot of issues I still have and I realize that I'm still not over my ex. Still looking for answers to why he did what he did to me and that's not a good place to start a relationship from. I'm going to keep working on myself. |
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Post by jaleesa on Aug 21, 2017 10:10:50 GMT
How long are you and your wife together? Do you feel she's open to change? It's hard to do all the hard work on your own! We've been together for approx 15 years now, but apart from the fact that we were good friends, there was never a real harmony or balance in the relationship. She was the high flyer, and she often said I was OK but it would be better for the relationship if I performed better, became less anxious,... however she wasn't supportive on that. On the contrary, she always used my "underperformance" as excuses. Since we were good friends and still appreciate each other, she's was willing to improve our relationship. We went to couples therapy, and even though we fighted so often, we connected again at the end of each session. I know I too often took things personally, but the sad thing was that she was convinced that in the end it was me who had to become a better person if I wanted to save the relationship. Fortunately my wife agreed to see a therapist soon. I insisted in that since she ended up spending most days doing nothing but researching things to buy and chatting with friends. I really appreciate she will be seeing a therapist but she s already warned me this therapist may give her the strenght to no longer accept my "misbehaviour". Example of how she sees me: My wife recently said that she may want another child and since most likely she wouldn t find someone else on time it would have to be with me. BTW: I'm not perfect at all and I have been somewhat neurotic and needy in the past, but I doing better the last years. I m still the nice guy doing most of the housework and giving my wife a lot of space. jaleesa: you're going through tough times. Good luck! Maybe the guy you re dating is not thrilling enough or you may need some more time, but I hope you will give secures a try. I'm so sorry, that must be hard to hear. No offence but what is the reason you're still with her? Are you still connected in any other way? 15 years is a very long time to be unhappy I wonder, what did the first therapist in couples therapy say to her about her behavior? Did she take any of it seriously? It's good you're working on yourself and I hope you guys can work it out! Seems like you're a really good guy who deserves to be loved. |
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soho
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by soho on Aug 22, 2017 8:18:45 GMT
I'm so sorry, that must be hard to hear. No offence but what is the reason you're still with her? Are you still connected in any other way? 15 years is a very long time to be unhappy I wonder, what did the first therapist in couples therapy say to her about her behavior? Did she take any of it seriously? It's good you're working on yourself and I hope you guys can work it out! Seems like you're a really good guy who deserves to be loved. Why I'm still with her? Good question. I believe it's cause of the following reasons: - I love my wife, she's a wonderful woman (apart from the negative aspects) and we 've had a good time together in the beginning and good moments afterwards. We can connect to each other deepest inners. Not sure if that s unique, but it s worth a lot. - I've always hoped it was going to be better. She used to work a lot, so I hoped things were going to improve when after years she finally got more spare time. It didn't. We first lived in a flat but we lacked space. Then we moved to a nice villa. Nothing changed. My wife wanted to have kids but had to wait 'cause of the work schedule. We then got 2 great kids, but no improvement on the relation. We went to couples therapy. I was convinced we d learning good things, but then my wife said she thought it was useless. My wife now spends a lot of time with her friends. It s a good thing. It makes her happier. But it seems they are filling most of her needs. And so on. She also said I was the reason things deteriorated. So I did my best to do better. I gave her more space, read books and tried to be a 100% nice guy. I'My wife even gave instructions on how to handle in order to get sex, but it rarely worked. There was always something I didn't do as she wanted, or she said she was just tired. Btw: I'm actually proud of the progression I made. People can change. I have more confidence, I'm a less frustrated person, more autonomous, give more compliments, I manage to do more things on a day,... but no impact on the relationship. My wife will go to a therapist and I ll try to stop being the nice guy. That's my last hope - I'm an AP, I don t have plenty of good friends and I'm attached to my wife. I didn't have the guts to leave my wife. - I'm married and see divorce as a personal failure. I prefere to have tried everything before divorcing - Financially it's much more expensive - We have 2 kids with busy schedules - I do believe people can change if they want I mostly miss a wife in my life, intimacy. Now I even can't say to my wife she s sexy. Not sure how much that's worth. The couple's therapist didn't juge. She respected each other behaviors and needs and took these as a starting point. The sessions were more about avoiding conflicts and trying to better communicate. Thanks for your comment about being a good guy. A lot of people think my wife isn't fair to me, but I didn't want to give up on her. I wished she could appreciatie me more. Maybe it's just contraproductive to be a nice guy. |
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Post by gaynxious on Aug 22, 2017 15:11:39 GMT
I hear a lot of my own thoughts in that last post. I forgave my ex for a lot because he was so busy hoping to get tenure one day. Every year he told me things would be better someday. Well when he failed to get tenure and had to move to much less demanding job they did get better. He was more available, made an effort with my friends, was more relaxed. But then he made his own friends and wanted to spend less and less time with me. It became clear he had less fun when I was around and the relationship just fell apart. Looking back I can't say there were any prolonged happy times. Happy moments yes. But I basically just learned to be less upset and less miserable. I largely stayed because at one point I knew he would never leave me. And then things changed. My advice to anyone is don't stay hopingnit will get better, because even if it does get better you have no idea what else will come with it. Make a decision based on the relationship you actually have, not the one you think you could have.
Easier said than done, I know. I wanted to leave at so many points and to this day I would prolly still be with him and unhappy had he not ended it.
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Post by cricket on Aug 22, 2017 15:58:36 GMT
[/quote] Wow I really respect you for that. My friend is actually single for 3 years now, after 15 years of relationship hopping. All terrible relationships and her last relationship was with a fullblown narcissist. This forced her to go to therapy and she's never been so happy in her entire life. I think it's hard for most anxious to think about a relationship-free life, but I think it's inly healthy to be good by yourself. I don't think I'm going to keep seeing him. I feel so guilty all the time It's not fair to him and he deserves someone who would want to walk to the moon and back for him. This forum reminds me of a lot of issues I still have and I realize that I'm still not over my ex. Still looking for answers to why he did what he did to me and that's not a good place to start a relationship from. I'm going to keep working on myself.[/quote] Congrats to your friend. I kinda feel the same way. Before this guy I was w a commitment phone for 6 yrs and before that married to an emotionally unavailable guy for 8 yrs. I thought I was really ready for something more But when I attracted this DA into my life it finally hit me hard how much I have to learn and do differently with myself and my negative thinking. I think you are making a great decision to let him go and also realizing if you aren't over your ex it's probably not healthy to start something with anyone yet. So many people use other people to fill that void and pain of getting o we someone else and then that relationship just ends up having issues too. Working on yourself will be well worth it. |
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Post by cricket on Aug 22, 2017 16:00:09 GMT
I hear a lot of my own thoughts in that last post. I forgave my ex for a lot because he was so busy hoping to get tenure one day. Every year he told me things would be better someday. Well when he failed to get tenure and had to move to much less demanding job they did get better. He was more available, made an effort with my friends, was more relaxed. But then he made his own friends and wanted to spend less and less time with me. It became clear he had less fun when I was around and the relationship just fell apart. Looking back I can't say there were any prolonged happy times. Happy moments yes. But I basically just learned to be less upset and less miserable. I largely stayed because at one point I knew he would never leave me. And then things changed. My advice to anyone is don't stay hopingnit will get better, because even if it does get better you have no idea what else will come with it. Make a decision based on the relationship you actually have, not the one you think you could have. Easier said than done, I know. I wanted to leave at so many points and to this day I would prolly still be with him and unhappy had he not ended it. Thank you for sharing your experience. It gives me a lot to think about. How long ago did u guys breakup and how do you feel now? |
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Post by gaynxious on Aug 22, 2017 16:48:58 GMT
It's been 11 months since we broke up. It would be a lie to say I am 'over him', every time I see him I am irritable and down for multiple days. But I have no desire to ever resume the relationship, not that likely would ever be an option to me. I consider our time together to have largely been a waste that was beneficial for a lot of practical reasons and that made sense due to the stage of my life I was in (getting my career going, figuring out what I wanted out of life). I have no interest in having any kind of relationship with him and probably prefer that we are hostile to each other because largely I have the initial upper hand in forcing him not to enter the same room as myself so I still get some pleasure out of controlling his behavior. But ultimately I would prefer never to see him again.
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