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Post by alexandra on May 11, 2020 0:42:57 GMT
But what I'm mostly struggling with is this: - Working through that pain from X and wanting to run away from everyone (even spilling over into work/friends at moments) - Sometimes I have this odd feeling of like "what if I miss the happiness from that hope or the deep pain from the pain?" It's impossible to explain, but it reminds me a little of how victims / survivors with PTSD can be with their abusers. - Do APs have phantom exes? Or what is this? It's like I don't want to be with him, but I feel like I'm not as angry as I should be. It's totally sick. He is still friends with all of my friends back home, and stuff... so I don't know. It's just f-ed up. I don't know. I also feel like I wasted so much of my adult prime life on being wounded from X, and even repeating the situation with another guy after moving across the country away from X. I wish I would've never met him. I guess to sum it up: I’m scared. It's incredibly common for people who aren't really committed and motivated to changing to bail on therapy a few months in, and this is exactly why. When you start peeling back into core wounds, it's difficult and painful and triggering, so you may go into flight mode. I think you're right, that you have a better therapist who is getting down to those core layers that you've dumped defense mechanisms over for years and years and years to bury, which means it's going to take some time to face and address. Because you didn't get to where you are overnight, so you can't fix it overnight. This takes time, and you are going to want to withdraw from your therapist and everyone else at times. That's okay to feel. You are getting overwhelmed and doing a lot of hard work, even if it's not wholly conscious processing. Be kind to yourself -- my personal recommendation is, if you feel overwhelmed, then do withdraw for short periods of time from others except keep the therapy up and as consistent as you can tolerate. Learning you can trust your therapist to be consistent through this triggering and pain is part of modeling a secure relationship, assuming your therapist actually is good. This is a normal step in the process. To answer your other questions, I had just written something about essentially missing being triggered and anxious a couple weeks ago. I think that's a fallacy, and write more at the bottom comment of this page: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1937/help-communicating-da-gf-triggers?page=15APs can get stuck endlessly on exes, yes. It's not quite the same as the phantom ex phenomenon, because it's usually not that you'd lose interest as soon as you got back together (like avoidants do when using phantom ex as a distancing coping mechanism). But it's because you never fully processed it and got stuck at some point when trying to move on, so there's still trauma to work through there (which you're now hitting up against in therapy). I think you've made an important callout that you're not "angry" enough. Frankly, that's probably the mourning stage at which you got stuck, as APs very often have difficulty with anger because it wasn't helpful or productive when you were younger due to family dynamics. Maybe you were invalidated or told to suck it up when you felt angry, or maybe you getting angry produced a really scary response in the adults around you. I was extremely uncomfortable being angry for much of my life and often questioned if it was "fair" for me to feel that way. But it's a typical part of the AP experience and is one place where I've noticed it's common to get stuck. (Ask tnr9 if she agrees, since this has been a theme in several of her threads too... and anne12 has posted an entire discussion thread about anger: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1468/anger-integrety-boundaries-ect )
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Post by serenity on May 11, 2020 9:05:25 GMT
Hugs Caroline, I totally understand that feeling of being scared when you've been through so much. And it must really hurt, thinking of all the years you endured that situation with X, and feeling like you didn't have the emotional resources to "escape". You likely didn't have them, through no fault of your own. Some of its because of our conditioning as kids, some of its because of conditioning as females too. You were caught in trap, but at least you got out of it, which must have taken an awful lot of courage. Well done for surviving! <3
Just know, that the feelings you have now..the instincts..they're not all "wrong". Our experiences teach us stuff, and frankly having experience is a good position to be in, when a lot of guys treat women horribly.
Your guy has done some things to betray your trust, and he has a lot of issues. I believe you have good reason to be guarded, and I respect your reasons for wanting to give him a chance too. If you really want to move forward with him, then take some risks, invest some (guarded) trust and see what he does with it? You won't feel safe in this relationship until you do. And he may prove unsafe, which is the scarey thing. But you do owe yourself some clarity.
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Post by tnr9 on May 11, 2020 16:53:25 GMT
But what I'm mostly struggling with is this: - Working through that pain from X and wanting to run away from everyone (even spilling over into work/friends at moments) - Sometimes I have this odd feeling of like "what if I miss the happiness from that hope or the deep pain from the pain?" It's impossible to explain, but it reminds me a little of how victims / survivors with PTSD can be with their abusers. - Do APs have phantom exes? Or what is this? It's like I don't want to be with him, but I feel like I'm not as angry as I should be. It's totally sick. He is still friends with all of my friends back home, and stuff... so I don't know. It's just f-ed up. I don't know. I also feel like I wasted so much of my adult prime life on being wounded from X, and even repeating the situation with another guy after moving across the country away from X. I wish I would've never met him. I guess to sum it up: I’m scared. It's incredibly common for people who aren't really committed and motivated to changing to bail on therapy a few months in, and this is exactly why. When you start peeling back into core wounds, it's difficult and painful and triggering, so you may go into flight mode. I think you're right, that you have a better therapist who is getting down to those core layers that you've dumped defense mechanisms over for years and years and years to bury, which means it's going to take some time to face and address. Because you didn't get to where you are overnight, so you can't fix it overnight. This takes time, and you are going to want to withdraw from your therapist and everyone else at times. That's okay to feel. You are getting overwhelmed and doing a lot of hard work, even if it's not wholly conscious processing. Be kind to yourself -- my personal recommendation is, if you feel overwhelmed, then do withdraw for short periods of time from others except keep the therapy up and as consistent as you can tolerate. Learning you can trust your therapist to be consistent through this triggering and pain is part of modeling a secure relationship, assuming your therapist actually is good. This is a normal step in the process. To answer your other questions, I had just written something about essentially missing being triggered and anxious a couple weeks ago. I think that's a fallacy, and write more at the bottom comment of this page: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1937/help-communicating-da-gf-triggers?page=15APs can get stuck endlessly on exes, yes. It's not quite the same as the phantom ex phenomenon, because it's usually not that you'd lose interest as soon as you got back together (like avoidants do when using phantom ex as a distancing coping mechanism). But it's because you never fully processed it and got stuck at some point when trying to move on, so there's still trauma to work through there (which you're now hitting up against in therapy). I think you've made an important callout that you're not "angry" enough. Frankly, that's probably the mourning stage at which you got stuck, as APs very often have difficulty with anger because it wasn't helpful or productive when you were younger due to family dynamics. Maybe you were invalidated or told to suck it up when you felt angry, or maybe you getting angry produced a really scary response in the adults around you. I was extremely uncomfortable being angry for much of my life and often questioned if it was "fair" for me to feel that way. But it's a typical part of the AP experience and is one place where I've noticed it's common to get stuck. (Ask tnr9 if she agrees, since this has been a theme in several of her threads too... and anne12 has posted an entire discussion thread about anger: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1468/anger-integrety-boundaries-ect ) Hey Caroline....I find that a good therapist has a way of stirring up the muck that has been long buried and it is soooo important to allow yourself the ability to grieve. I realize this man was a while ago but he was front and center in your life for a decade so no wonder you have some strong feelings coming forward. I also relate to anger “not being ok” growing up. I remember anger as a scary emotion in others and told it was a selfish emotion whenever I tried to express it. I developed 2 very distinct coping mechanisms....1. I cry whenever I think the person is going to judge me...that happens when I am in a very young place...2. I project it outward onto others. My main place is while driving...I will get really pissed off when people don’t use a signal when changing lanes, drive too slow etc etc. This usually happens when I feel judged....always happens after I see my mom. Yesterday I went through a ton of emotions...at one point I was angry at “running”....let me explain....after B broke up with me, he liked all these photos of a friend of mine who loves to run....so I got fixated on the idea that in order to be with B, I would have had to run (I believe his fiancée is a runner too)...well..as you can imagine....I got extremely indignant...it felt like an obligation...it also felt like a judgement...I don’t like running...it isn’t my thing....and today that is ok...but yesterday.....wooza....I was super angry at running...,which was my way at being pissed at B. i think it is good to want breaks from people....processing this stuff is not easy and your partner should understand. And as @alexadra says be kind to yourself.....treat this like meditation....let the feelings and thoughts pass through you without judgement. Also,I find it is about control and choice....so much was chosen for us that we did not want or we lost any choice because there were no options.
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Post by tnr9 on May 11, 2020 22:45:23 GMT
Those are all great points, thank you. I also didn’t realize that I’m in flight mode... which I very much am. I also relate to the running thing, I’ve done this with things before. Sorry for the crappy response, as I do so much appreciate everyone’s response. I think I’m just still feeling these things so much. I was coldish to FA when he was texting last night. Not really cold but just not my usual self. I could barely get like 2 words out, I was trying, and resorted to just sending funny pics I had on my phone then trailing off saying I was reading. I wanted to answer him and not ignore as he’s been very good at doing the same to me when he’s obviously not in a great mood. I feel too broken, like why would anyone ever like me? No one has before. (But I guess my ex I lived with did and saw me as “marriage material”). Like I’m just past that point. Like no one has really ever understood me (my mom reminded me of this yesterday), or until people I’ve recently (mainly you all). So why would he accept me as me? I’m “good enough” in a lot of ways now, which is diff than my narrative before, but this X wound is making me feel a whole revised brokenness. Like I’m 6 years older than him, and I feel like I should’ve resolved all of this and be this whole, successful person. Not someone crying on their couch for a whole day. I guess I just have to vulnerable and tell FA what’s going on for me. And if he runs, then it wasn’t meant to be. I didn’t run when he told me deep “broken” pieces of him, it helped understand more. Flight under quarantine feels like you’re forced to deal with this as I can’t just pick up and go somewhere and never turn back like I want. Welcome to being human....I find it super fascinating how we can be so very accommodating to whoever it is we are in the dance with...but hey...we have to be “perfect”...otherwise no one will want to be with us. The big difference I see between me and my secure friends is that they accept that they are not perfect...and...that they are still lovable....so things happen and they don’t spend hours dwelling on...did I say the right thing? Is he going to leave me? All the stuff I gyrate on because I don’t think “me” as I am is enough. Relationships still feel like glass...fragile. But what therapy is teaching me is that true friendship is based on mutual respect...not, did I say the right? Text too much? Get too emotional. They leave room for the imperfections to have space....for the oopsies and the oh crumbs.
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Post by tnr9 on May 12, 2020 11:53:04 GMT
Welcome to being human....I find it super fascinating how we can be so very accommodating to whoever it is we are in the dance with...but hey...we have to be “perfect”...otherwise no one will want to be with us. The big difference I see between me and my secure friends is that they accept that they are not perfect...and...that they are still lovable....so things happen and they don’t spend hours dwelling on...did I say the right thing? Is he going to leave me? All the stuff I gyrate on because I don’t think “me” as I am is enough. Relationships still feel like glass...fragile. But what therapy is teaching me is that true friendship is based on mutual respect...not, did I say the right? Text too much? Get too emotional. They leave room for the imperfections to have space....for the oopsies and the oh crumbs. I agree, and as I'm (maybe) shifting somewhat to some tiny level of security, I can feel these things. But while those moments of brokenness are much less, they're still so strong. I'll also admit it's about to be that time of month and hormones a couple of days before usually crush me — my last "big moment" of breakdown from X after therapy was exactly a month ago. I guess it's also a fear of knowing I need to be vulnerable and tell him a piece of what's up with me. He's been open, and I haven't... the irony but yup feeds into "we have to be perfect" but no one else does and we'd never put that pressure on them. There's also this weird feeling of "my problem isn't big enough" or "it's nothing compared to what he's been through." So I just feel stupid thinking about saying it, but I know it does put a blocker between us for me not to be open and for him not to understand why I sometimes on occasion do the things I do. When he told me what was going on for him, it all made way more sense and I truly saw that this wasn't me (even if I'd suspected it for a while). I'm basically being a hypocrite telling him to open up, let me in, to be vulnerable — while I'm sitting here in my box afraid to expose some wounds — even if they aren't as big as his, they're still there. And I want us to have a healthy relationship — or as healthy as we can knowing we're still massively healing from our own sh*t — and that requires me being vulnerable too. Yep...discounting myself while forgiving B was a big thing for me too. My stepfather’s dad died and it was a a very sad occasion and I did not hear from B for 3 days...I even thought for a moment that he had ghosted me. When he finally contacted me,I said nothing....I acted as if everything was ok.....and I focused solely on him. I too felt like my issues were not as big and there was this nagging sense that my issues made me seem crazy and were self induced, whereas his issues stemmed from trauma he experienced as a little boy.
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Post by tnr9 on May 13, 2020 10:54:44 GMT
So my therapist said tonight that I’m trying to come up with every reason to prove I’m unlikeable and that he doesn’t / couldn’t ever like me. So yeh, that hit hard. It’s so true. Give yourself a ton of grace and space to feel those emotions without judging them. That is hard....having the emotions, thoughts and then allowing them to just be without the “parent” voice criticizing them. When it gets really bad....lie down on your back with your feet on a chair for 5 minutes and just breath. Allow whatever thoughts/feelings to flow through you but don’t react to them. If it helps...you can picture yourself sitting at the bottom of a clear lake and your thoughts and feelings float up and away in bubbles.
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