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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2020 20:57:22 GMT
Hey everyone, this is literally my first time ever posting on a forum, but discovering attachment theory and lurking on this board has literally been a god-send in dealing with a break-up with ex. I'm just looking for advice in how to continue to manage the situation.
My girlfriend of 5 1/2 years left me pretty suddenly a little more than two months ago. I'm 28 and she's 27.
I was admittedly always the strong one in our relationship. She's afraid of confrontation (she told me this after we started dating), so we didn't fight much in general, and there were a lot of cases where she would bottle something up, bring it out later (sometimes two years later). We're both anxious people, but I go therapy to handle my issues, and have been regularly since I was 17. She used to but stopped going a couple years ago because she repeatedly told me she hates emotions and feelings (this was a common theme). My therapist told me a year ago he thought she has Borderline Personality Disorder, which would be unsurprising because my mom has BPD.
Our relationship wasn't perfect as we had moved around a lot, both had our own job issues, broke up for two months at one point (my decision, but I matured because of it and we grew stronger) and this new job and new city were supposed to be the stability we were both looking for.
But I slumped into a really bad depression because of the pandemic, almost entirely because of my job. I was working 6-7 days a week, 50-60 hours, and never leaving the apartment. I was furloughed twice. I wasn't enjoying what I was doing. I lost all my outlets and hobbies because of closures and cancellations, and was trying to find new ones (I'm now a proud plant dad.) She was extremely emotionally supportive, but for the first time since we started dating, she was the one solely carrying the emotions of the relationship for months despite dealing with her own issues (starting school again, lost jobs, money issues, etc.).
I had some really bad depressive episodes starting in July, and tried medication but had bad side-effects from them, so I stopped. The last episode I had was in October, and she was extremely supportive, and basically told me I needed to do what I long-talked about and step away from work for a bit, and that she loved me and would support me. But then a week later, we got into a big fight (our first actual fight since May) that I started because she asked me to edit a video together for her on my day off after one of the worst weeks I had of working seven-straight days (At the start of the pandemic I basically told her with my work schedule, my days off were important to me because they're my only downtime). She told me that I was responsible for all her problems. We screamed at each other and she said she was tired of feeling like she was always doing something wrong, and that she doesn't feel like I've changed in five years (this hurt because I've matured a ton since we started dating and it's a source of pride for me). I said I guess that's it then if you don't wanna do something your partner is asking you to do that bothers him. I thought it was a fight, but she thought it was a break-up.
Within an hour, she had removed all the pictures of us off social media, was texting me about logistics of moving out. I was really in shock. We spoke for four hours the next day, I told her I didn't want this, and she basically told me she was thinking of doing since we had moved (never had given any indication the relationship was in doubt), said moving was a last-ditch effort to save the relationship (she told me she was excited and happy and called it the next chapter in our lives and told everyone she was happy there), and said that my emotions were the reason we broke up (the last fight we had gotten into in May, she apologized and said she was going to therapy -- she made a call to her university, but never followed up and I held her accountable for it in the months after). She said her mom was concerned about her well being and wanted her to move home. She basically continued to pin everything on me and my depression throughout this conversation. And she kept saying the pandemic was not an excuse for anything. (This was my fourth adult relationship -- I know break-ups are almost always a two-way street.)
Almost immediately she started sending weird signals and acting like a zombie. Despite being hurt, I said we could continue living together in separate rooms because she couldn't afford to move out and was barely making our rent. But she was sending mixed signals: she surprised with me with dinner, asked to watch shows with me, leaned on me for emotional support for her issues, talked to me constantly about her day. Then simultaneously was forcing me to sign a form to break our lease and accusing me of delaying it, despite the fact that my whole life changed and I wanted to sort through my next moves before rendering myself homeless. Eventually it erupted into a fight where I told her she wasn't respecting my boundaries and respecting my grieving process. I told her she was sending me mixed signals, she got defensive, and then kept picking fights over the next few days to the point I had to leave.
During the last fight, I told her, "I still feel like I haven't been given the real reason why we broke up." She said, "I talked to you for four hours and I'm not gonna do that again." I told her, "I'm tired of you using me and my emotions as a scapegoat, and that I'd never apologize for telling her how I was feeling." She continued to say it was all my fault. I didn't feel safe, so I left to go to a hotel. That was the last time I saw her in person.
The next month and a half has been awful for various reasons. She texted me an apology after the fight for causing me so much distresses, and said it was because of a talk with her mom pressuring her about moving home. She texted me daily about the house and logistics of moving out, saying things like "I want you to have the sparkling water." She asked to meet up before we left and say goodbye and I told her I didn't want to (I just didn't want to get in a fight again and the break-up was too fresh.) The day I left she texted me "I'll miss you" and "I'm wishing you the best." I sent her a long text basically saying I'm doing fine and you don't have to worry about me and I'm in a good place, but I need to keep the boundaries. She tried texting me about normal things. I just kept responding with "boundaries."
And then a week after I get a call from her that she was going to have to put our cat down. The cat got stressed after we broke up, and I'm convinced she stopped eating because of it. It launched off two days of her leaning on me for emotional support about the cat. She was literally texting me and calling me saying "I did this to her," "This is my fault," "I'm a bad mom," "She was the only thing I had to look forward to in moving home," "Why do bad things keep happening to me," "I don't know if I can move on," etc. She kept telling me she was wrong to feel sad about the cat and she hates emotions, and her parents were telling her to think practically. I literally had to tell her it's okay to grieve and be sad about your cat. It all really freaked me out cause she was a zombie, but then she disappeared. It also hurt cause she showed zero emotion about the relationship, but all the emotion about the cat. (Not saying the latter is wrong, at all.)
I didn't hear from her for three weeks and it honestly just made me feel used one last time. I was experiencing my own additional issues (my dad had a medical emergency.) So I reached out to her, asked how she was doing and she launched into more about the cat. I literally asked her "Hey, how are you doing?" and she responded "I wanted to send this picture to you but I wasn't sure." It was just more of her saying she was struggling about the cat and me supporting her, but then she threw in a "I'm doing great day-to-day." She eventually asked how I was, so I told her what happened with my dad and she said "Sorry but glad he's okay." Really short and not even close to the support I've given her over the cat. It ended with me just saying I was concerned about her and wanted to reach out cause I was thinking about her. She said she was thinking about me too, but that we both needed to heal. I said I agree. That was that.
Just the conversations since we broke up have been like talking to a zombie and like nothing happened. I have a great support system of friends and my dad, but the former have just been telling me she's evil and crazy and move on and block her (It's well-meaning advice but doesn't really help me with my personality.) I googled around and found attachment theory and it's creepy how word-for-word some of what she said and did lined up with Fearful Avoidant. It's also creepy how much I've lined up as an Anxious Avoidant in dealing with this situation. I've always been the secure one -- and at least when we broke up the firs time a dismissive avoidant -- in relationships.
Most importantly for me is I'm already in hell-of-a-lot better place mentally. I took a leave from work and my depression disappeared instantly. I'm about to make a change in my work situation. I feel like I did before the pandemic, which is where I want to be. I've also moved past the "wanting closure" part of the break-up, and have accepted that might not ever come. I've also started talking to other girls to show myself there are other fish in the sea.
But it's still not even been three months, and my missing of her is only growing larger. What I've been working on with my therapist and friends is deciding what I want to do. I'm the type of person that needs to feel like I tried everything I could before I move on. In texting her last and seeing she still didn't want to talk about the relationship, I felt good because it showed were at different places in the healing process.
But will she ever want to talk about it? Am I expected to reach out? Do I need to make my feelings known, or will that push her away even more? Do I cut if off entirely? Is she going to continue leaning on me for emotional support and what do I do in that situation?
Any advice would be helpful.
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Post by serenity on Dec 24, 2020 20:08:03 GMT
Hugs jt, You've been through an awful lot, and I'm so sorry for the pain and confusion it has caused you. Sucks thats its Christmas too, when most of us hope to be with our loved ones Sending you hugs. Your ex is clearly someone with mental health issues that go deeper than her fearful avoidant attachment style. I feel a lot for these kinds of people too... their vulnerability and sweetness, their lonliness and intense need for love and connection. But I feel their lonliness is their own doing. They keep pushing people away who love and care for them, or messing up relationships up due to their selfishness and the extreme distress they cause loved ones .... you forgive them because it seems to be a selfishness that comes from being overwhelmed with feelings they don't know how to deal with. But at some point you realise that they don't really care about you, or the impact of their behaviour on you. They'd rather throw you away like trash than take the simplest of steps to make the relationship work for both of you. When they hear that they are causing you extreme distress, they simply don't care. Theres not the empathy in them to give you that. Its a hard lesson to learn..that you were used, and not really seen as person with feelings and needs of your own that they wanted to meet out of love... I've learned this lesson well through two relationships with men like this. I feel you did all that could be done in your situation. It was both fair and reasonable to try to create a reciprocal relationship, ask for your needs to be met, to give her chances to grow. You were accountable for your own mental health, and held your ground when she was causing you distress. The missing feeling after relationships like this is the worst I've ever felt personally. Its horrible to deal with and lasts longer than it should, when you consider the low quality of the relationship you "miss". I believe it comes from have your nervous system upset and put into a state of anxiety. It will calm as the months go by and you hold onto your boundaries, but it takes so long Periods of no contact do help a lot, if you can manage it. Again I'm so sorry for your experience. I understand why you tried and loved her so much. You really need reciprocal relationships in life, its not possible to thrive being the one giving and caring, and getting distress and heart ache in return. Please care for yourself during this difficult time. Good people like you deserve it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2020 5:13:19 GMT
Serenity, thanks for the kind words and apologize that you had to go through something similar ... twice. It's hard because she really was an empathetic partner literally until the end. Our relationship wasn't perfect, and very few are, but it was the best I've ever had. She is a really nice person and we didn't fight. I went to bed happy every night with her. She just is incapable of handling her emotions, and the pandemic tested a lot of that. Right now no contact is working quite well for me, but I'm sure there's a point where it won't. I'm the type of person where if I feel like I should text her, I'll do it -- I don't mind being vulnerable and can accept any outcome. I guess my biggest questions for you are: Did you hear from your exes? Or were you the one to reach out? What were those conversations like? Were they attempts to get back together, be friends, or just kinda in between? How did you handle those? Again, I just don't know how to navigate this so any input is helpful! And Merry Christmas to you
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 28, 2020 13:16:29 GMT
Serenity, thanks for the kind words and apologize that you had to go through something similar ... twice. It's hard because she really was an empathetic partner literally until the end. Our relationship wasn't perfect, and very few are, but it was the best I've ever had. She is a really nice person and we didn't fight. I went to bed happy every night with her. She just is incapable of handling her emotions, and the pandemic tested a lot of that. Right now no contact is working quite well for me, but I'm sure there's a point where it won't. I'm the type of person where if I feel like I should text her, I'll do it -- I don't mind being vulnerable and can accept any outcome. I guess my biggest questions for you are: Did you hear from your exes? Or were you the one to reach out? What were those conversations like? Were they attempts to get back together, be friends, or just kinda in between? How did you handle those? Again, I just don't know how to navigate this so any input is helpful! And Merry Christmas to you Hi there....welcome to the forums. I understand the desire to do everything you can and to reconnect, but I would encourage you to discuss that with your therapist. Are you trying for a different outcome based on what you have read on these boards and about attachment theory? Because if you read through the entire FA section....you will not find a single example of a successful relationship where only 1 person worked on his/her attachment issues. In most cases, it is the anxious partner who thinks the avoidant partner can change just if the anxious partner is less...anxious.....but both partners have to be aware and willing to do the work. Also....check in with yourself whether the desire to reconnect has to do with your own vision of her “potential”...meaning, you can see how things “could be” “if only”. Anxious people tend to see potential in people and focus on this fantasy version rather then accepting the other person as that person is now. It leads to longing for a partner who isn’t there but a construct of the best parts of that person.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 18:12:55 GMT
Serenity, thanks for the kind words and apologize that you had to go through something similar ... twice. It's hard because she really was an empathetic partner literally until the end. Our relationship wasn't perfect, and very few are, but it was the best I've ever had. She is a really nice person and we didn't fight. I went to bed happy every night with her. She just is incapable of handling her emotions, and the pandemic tested a lot of that. Right now no contact is working quite well for me, but I'm sure there's a point where it won't. I'm the type of person where if I feel like I should text her, I'll do it -- I don't mind being vulnerable and can accept any outcome. I guess my biggest questions for you are: Did you hear from your exes? Or were you the one to reach out? What were those conversations like? Were they attempts to get back together, be friends, or just kinda in between? How did you handle those? Again, I just don't know how to navigate this so any input is helpful! And Merry Christmas to you Hi there....welcome to the forums. I understand the desire to do everything you can and to reconnect, but I would encourage you to discuss that with your therapist. Are you trying for a different outcome based on what you have read on these boards and about attachment theory? Because if you read through the entire FA section....you will not find a single example of a successful relationship where only 1 person worked on his/her attachment issues. In most cases, it is the anxious partner who thinks the avoidant partner can change just if the anxious partner is less...anxious.....but both partners have to be aware and willing to do the work. Also....check in with yourself whether the desire to reconnect has to do with your own vision of her “potential”...meaning, you can see how things “could be” “if only”. Anxious people tend to see potential in people and focus on this fantasy version rather then accepting the other person as that person is now. It leads to longing for a partner who isn’t there but a construct of the best parts of that person. Thanks for the information, and I definitely understand. But no, I'm not trying for a specific outcome between us at the moment, and just taking it day-by-day. I really have zero desire to reach out to her at the moment. It's still fresh and she hurt me and I'm working through that and what I want. That could change but I know what I want right now is space. I'm literally just curious for advice on best practices and expectations should she reach out to me. I've consistently suggested for a months she should see a therapist. Do I do that again? What should I expect if I continue to keep boundaries and push her away? Or if I respond short and friendly and keep things in between? Or if I come on strong and say let's get back together? And what are the best ways to do each of these and the pros/cons.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 28, 2020 19:51:05 GMT
Hi there....welcome to the forums. I understand the desire to do everything you can and to reconnect, but I would encourage you to discuss that with your therapist. Are you trying for a different outcome based on what you have read on these boards and about attachment theory? Because if you read through the entire FA section....you will not find a single example of a successful relationship where only 1 person worked on his/her attachment issues. In most cases, it is the anxious partner who thinks the avoidant partner can change just if the anxious partner is less...anxious.....but both partners have to be aware and willing to do the work. Also....check in with yourself whether the desire to reconnect has to do with your own vision of her “potential”...meaning, you can see how things “could be” “if only”. Anxious people tend to see potential in people and focus on this fantasy version rather then accepting the other person as that person is now. It leads to longing for a partner who isn’t there but a construct of the best parts of that person. Thanks for the information, and I definitely understand. But no, I'm not trying for a specific outcome between us at the moment, and just taking it day-by-day. I really have zero desire to reach out to her at the moment. It's still fresh and she hurt me and I'm working through that and what I want. That could change but I know what I want right now is space. I'm literally just curious for advice on best practices and expectations should she reach out to me. I've consistently suggested for a months she should see a therapist. Do I do that again? What should I expect if I continue to keep boundaries and push her away? Or if I respond short and friendly and keep things in between? Or if I come on strong and say let's get back together? And what are the best ways to do each of these and the pros/cons. I think you need to stop considering her reactions in the equation and instead simply focus on what you want....because, to be honest...you sound all over the place. Do you or do you not want to get back together? Are you ok with her staying the way she is? If the answer is no....then you are best served if she does reach out to hold your boundaries. She will only go to therapy if she decides it is right for her so I would drop that entire line of thinking unless she raises it. This whole “what should I expect” line of questions doesn’t take into consideration that FA is an attachment style, it doesn’t define every aspect of who she is...especially if there are other things going on.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 21:10:02 GMT
Thanks for the information, and I definitely understand. But no, I'm not trying for a specific outcome between us at the moment, and just taking it day-by-day. I really have zero desire to reach out to her at the moment. It's still fresh and she hurt me and I'm working through that and what I want. That could change but I know what I want right now is space. I'm literally just curious for advice on best practices and expectations should she reach out to me. I've consistently suggested for a months she should see a therapist. Do I do that again? What should I expect if I continue to keep boundaries and push her away? Or if I respond short and friendly and keep things in between? Or if I come on strong and say let's get back together? And what are the best ways to do each of these and the pros/cons. I think you need to stop considering her reactions in the equation and instead simply focus on what you want....because, to be honest...you sound all over the place. Do you or do you not want to get back together? Are you ok with her staying the way she is? If the answer is no....then you are best served if she does reach out to hold your boundaries. She will only go to therapy if she decides it is right for her so I would drop that entire line of thinking unless she raises it. This whole “what should I expect” line of questions doesn’t take into consideration that FA is an attachment style, it doesn’t define every aspect of who she is...especially if there are other things going on. I am all over the place and I think I've pretty openly admitted that. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be here asking for advice But this is the kind of response I'm looking for. I've accepted that she is the way she is, which is fine, because that person was extremely empathetic pretty much until the relationship ended. I haven't accepted whether that's what I need from a relationship, someone who isn't willing to work on themselves and acknowledge their own issues and pin the blame on their partner, and the fact that she could hurt me again. That's why I'm asking the "what should I expect" questions if I even suggest that. Again, I know right now boundaries are good and that's what's working for me.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 29, 2020 5:17:59 GMT
I think you need to stop considering her reactions in the equation and instead simply focus on what you want....because, to be honest...you sound all over the place. Do you or do you not want to get back together? Are you ok with her staying the way she is? If the answer is no....then you are best served if she does reach out to hold your boundaries. She will only go to therapy if she decides it is right for her so I would drop that entire line of thinking unless she raises it. This whole “what should I expect” line of questions doesn’t take into consideration that FA is an attachment style, it doesn’t define every aspect of who she is...especially if there are other things going on. I am all over the place and I think I've pretty openly admitted that. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be here asking for advice But this is the kind of response I'm looking for. I've accepted that she is the way she is, which is fine, because that person was extremely empathetic pretty much until the relationship ended. I haven't accepted whether that's what I need from a relationship, someone who isn't willing to work on themselves and acknowledge their own issues and pin the blame on their partner, and the fact that she could hurt me again. That's why I'm asking the "what should I expect" questions if I even suggest that. Again, I know right now boundaries are good and that's what's working for me. No one here can predict her reactions or behavior based on a summary of events....what I would suggest you do is take some time to go back through this forum because you will find a lot of anxious posters asking questions and lots of FA posters providing insight. I am FA but I cannot predict how your ex is going to behave.....whether she will or will not reach out...whether she will or will not hurt you again. Many FAs do cycle with exes...meaning after enough time has passed, they miss the good parts of the relationship (just as you miss the good parts of the relationship) and reach out....things might be good for a bit but then old patterns begin again and the push/pull dynamic starts again. As to the whole “working on herself”...if she feels in the slightest that you expect her to change, there is a fairly big likelihood that she will put up a wall....this is due to the chaotic childhood relationship that FAs go through.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 2:58:29 GMT
I am all over the place and I think I've pretty openly admitted that. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be here asking for advice But this is the kind of response I'm looking for. I've accepted that she is the way she is, which is fine, because that person was extremely empathetic pretty much until the relationship ended. I haven't accepted whether that's what I need from a relationship, someone who isn't willing to work on themselves and acknowledge their own issues and pin the blame on their partner, and the fact that she could hurt me again. That's why I'm asking the "what should I expect" questions if I even suggest that. Again, I know right now boundaries are good and that's what's working for me. No one here can predict her reactions or behavior based on a summary of events....what I would suggest you do is take some time to go back through this forum because you will find a lot of anxious posters asking questions and lots of FA posters providing insight. I am FA but I cannot predict how your ex is going to behave.....whether she will or will not reach out...whether she will or will not hurt you again. Many FAs do cycle with exes...meaning after enough time has passed, they miss the good parts of the relationship (just as you miss the good parts of the relationship) and reach out....things might be good for a bit but then old patterns begin again and the push/pull dynamic starts again. As to the whole “working on herself”...if she feels in the slightest that you expect her to change, there is a fairly big likelihood that she will put up a wall....this is due to the chaotic childhood relationship that FAs go through. Seriously, thank you for your advice. I read this post and combined that with advice from family/therapist: I've done all I can with her to this point, focus on what I could control like my work situation, and just deal with it when she reaches out. I know what I need from a relationship and if we were to ever get to that point again, I know exactly what I would need to say. I don't want to change her. I like her for who she is. Then she texted me and said that she's had COVID for the last two weeks, that her dad is really sick, and that she misses me. She spent the next day seeking emotional support (and her dad is doing better but still not out the woods, thank God), but asking about me and how I'm doing. Then the next day she apologized for being too friendly. I just said you know where I stand, that I can never be just friends with you. She just said I haven't forgotten that and I just need distance sometimes. And that was the end of it. I feel really good about it. I haven't changed the fact that I'm a good person who cares about her, I retained and reiterated the boundaries I need, and I've done what I can for the time being. Thanks for helping out a stranger.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2021 3:23:05 GMT
Coming back around for an update on me: Over the last month, I've really been working on breaking some trends in my romantic relationships ... and it turns out, agrees my therapist, that I'm a fearful avoidant. The early stages of the break-up were just my anxious side being triggered, but in the whole, I've always been over-independent in relationships, feel threatened when losing that independence, become anxious when I have to be emotionally vulnerable, and self-sabotage.
In this relationship, I ignored my partner's needs (my therapist asked me what she told me she needed from me and I couldn't give him an answer.) Before it ended I self-sabotaged -- nitpicking, starting disagreements over very minor things, avoiding serious and important talks (and either shutting down or starting fights over them) -- until we exploded during that final fight. I was having some major intimacy issues and we didn't have sex for months before we broke up, and would tell her it was off-limits if she tried to talk to me about it because my intimacy issues were caused by my low self-esteem, when it was really my depression.
This discovery kind of explains why my depression subsided after we broke-up, and I felt a sort of relief to be independent, even though my self-esteem remained low. It also explains why in relationships I always look for the negatives out of fear that I end up dating my mother, even though in friends I never have a hard time finding the positive qualities, and ignoring issues with them.
Feeling like I've discovered myself has been therapeutic honestly. I've had depressive symptoms only once in the last 2 1/2 months. Over the last month, I've gotten into a routine that focuses on finding the happiness in my life, and practicing mindfulness, which has literally been a life-changer. I say a gratitude every time something good happens, and make a list of happy things every day before I go to bed. I reached the point a couple weeks ago where I no longer felt like a participant in my own life, but that I was taking control of it. I'm trying to do a better job of recognizing my triggers; living at home again and watching my parents' interactions and how they shaped me has been eye-opening, especially the realization that my dad basically gave up years ago with my mom and is depressed, too.
But the underlying thing is I'm really missing my ex-girlfriend. I went back for the first through text messages from the week before we broke up and saw that I was really pushing her away. It's clear I was just emotion-dumping and attention-seeking, and not articulating my actual feelings. I also found out that at one point during my depression my dad talked with my therapist and basically told me he doesn't understand why things are so hard for me because I have this great girlfriend who had stuck with me through so many lows. And he's right. I really didn't do a good job of appreciating her.
This past weekend, I reached a point where I felt empowered and confident enough to make myself emotionally vulnerable and tell her how I feel. I was going to tell her a lot of this and just say I'm sorry that I ignored her needs and that it was done unconsciously. I was really happy with the plan. I sent her a text this morning telling her I miss her (first time I've been the first to say that since we broke up). Her response was "I'm lonely, too" and that she had been thinking about asking me about the new job I'm starting next month.
I responded by telling her "I'm sorry she's feeling lonely" and hope that she continues to stays busy. I then told her that I'm staying busy too, I've been focusing on myself, I've worked my way back to a point where I feel happy with myself, and that I'm proud of myself (all true, which is something I'm really, really proud of). I ended it by responding to her by saying I'm personally not feeling lonely, and that I just really miss her. She had immediately responded the first time, but this time took hours to send me a short text that she's happy for me and keep up the good work.
Unfortunately, that just really triggered me, because being stuck in the middle in all aspects of my life prompts my feelings of inadequacy (this is true for work, family, romantic relationships). I know I need to finish telling her how I feel but right I know I just need to take a step away from the conversation until I work through these feelings.
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Post by serenity on Jan 20, 2021 7:47:28 GMT
Hi jtbraves,
I'm unsure if you've followed any of Thais Gibson excellent videos on youtube? She's a very experienced, insightful and engaging attachment style therapist, and I've found her advice to be spot on when I've applied it to my own life.
What she would likely say in your situation, since trust has been broken on both sides, is try first with creating a pattern of "light, friendly" communication. She suggests every 4 days or so. Theres obviously many elephants in the room, but you're not quite ready to re negotiate a relationship yet... your trust was broken, and so you feel self protective, and for good reason. Its not the time to be completely vulnerable yet. Her trust has been broken for other reasons.
Try to get the pattern going for a month, and for your own sake wait and see if she shows up before trying to reconcile. If she seems responsive for 4 weeks, you can start to negotiate reconciliation from there. At that point, I would suggest being fully vulnerable and admit what you feel were your mistakes and address her fears. Just give it a little time? You've been badly shaken up, abandoned, and you need her to show up for you a bit too.
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simon
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Post by simon on Jan 20, 2021 12:02:23 GMT
It is common for an FA or DA to feel "suffocated, controlled, etc." in a relationship due to previous wounds from childhood, especially if there was an element of parentification, enmeshment, engulfment, etc.
And it is common, that even if they really like a person, that after pushing away there is a sense of relief and calm with the independence, and NOT having someone depend on them, or be emotionally connected to them. Again, this is because the core wounds are not being triggered. It's unconscious programs at work.
And aligned with Pete Walker's work on CPTSD and emotional flashbacks, I have a theory that sometimes (but not always) a "depression" is really a form of emotional flashback, a feeling stored in the body's emotional system, that is bubbling back up and being re-experienced.
So, for instance... if someone went through a childhood with too much responsibility or enmeshment or emotional neglect or narcissistic abuse or whatever... those times the child was not empowered to get away or escape the situation, the coping method was disassociation and tuning out, repressing everything so that the fear or hurt or abandonment would not be felt.
And until those core wounds or traumatic emotions that are still stored in the body, are healed and integrated, they can bubble up later in life as depressive episodes (an emotional flashback). I have seen this in a FA that I dated.
And the irony, is what can trigger these emotional flashbacks... in the sense that it can be triggered by negative events, but also what would be considered positive... such as actually feeling a stable and strong love from a partner, could remind what was missing back in childhood and could trigger.
Anyway, I bring it up because of your statement about "feeling relief" and your depression going away after you broke up, which can feel surprising if you like the person. And to realize it's not actually about the person, but about the feelings behind it that are more about core wounds from earlier in life. It's more deeply about your "beliefs" and programs stored in your mind/body about what a relationship can mean, both bad and good. And what those underlying fears really are.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2021 15:44:35 GMT
Hi jtbraves, I'm unsure if you've followed any of Thais Gibson excellent videos on youtube? She's a very experienced, insightful and engaging attachment style therapist, and I've found her advice to be spot on when I've applied it to my own life. What she would likely say in your situation, since trust has been broken on both sides, is try first with creating a pattern of "light, friendly" communication. She suggests every 4 days or so. Theres obviously many elephants in the room, but you're not quite ready to re negotiate a relationship yet... your trust was broken, and so you feel self protective, and for good reason. Its not the time to be completely vulnerable yet. Her trust has been broken for other reasons. Try to get the pattern going for a month, and for your own sake wait and see if she shows up before trying to reconcile. If she seems responsive for 4 weeks, you can start to negotiate reconciliation from there. At that point, I would suggest being fully vulnerable and admit what you feel were your mistakes and address her fears. Just give it a little time? You've been badly shaken up, abandoned, and you need her to show up for you a bit too. You just nailed all my emotions. Regardless of how it happened, I do still feel like my trust is broken. Yesterday was really the first time I put my own emotional guard down as I've set up strict boundaries with her, with the exception of being emotional support with her after the cat and the COVID diagnosis. Despite that we've been in fairly regularly contact, only once going longer than two weeks without talking to each other. She told me New Year's Eve she missed me, and has been regularly texting me since. I've watched a ton of Thais Gibson videos over the last month, but not sure I saw that one. Would you mind linking it? I honestly love that plan, telling her something like "Maybe I can keep you company a bit" and just keeping it light. The biggest thing is I don't wanna disregard her attachment issues too and want to make sure that she feels comfortable. I really, really don't wanna make the same mistake again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2021 22:15:12 GMT
It is common for an FA or DA to feel "suffocated, controlled, etc." in a relationship due to previous wounds from childhood, especially if there was an element of parentification, enmeshment, engulfment, etc. And it is common, that even if they really like a person, that after pushing away there is a sense of relief and calm with the independence, and NOT having someone depend on them, or be emotionally connected to them. Again, this is because the core wounds are not being triggered. It's unconscious programs at work. And aligned with Pete Walker's work on CPTSD and emotional flashbacks, I have a theory that sometimes (but not always) a "depression" is really a form of emotional flashback, a feeling stored in the body's emotional system, that is bubbling back up and being re-experienced. So, for instance... if someone went through a childhood with too much responsibility or enmeshment or emotional neglect or narcissistic abuse or whatever... those times the child was not empowered to get away or escape the situation, the coping method was disassociation and tuning out, repressing everything so that the fear or hurt or abandonment would not be felt. And until those core wounds or traumatic emotions that are still stored in the body, are healed and integrated, they can bubble up later in life as depressive episodes (an emotional flashback). I have seen this in a FA that I dated. And the irony, is what can trigger these emotional flashbacks... in the sense that it can be triggered by negative events, but also what would be considered positive... such as actually feeling a stable and strong love from a partner, could remind what was missing back in childhood and could trigger. Anyway, I bring it up because of your statement about "feeling relief" and your depression going away after you broke up, which can feel surprising if you like the person. And to realize it's not actually about the person, but about the feelings behind it that are more about core wounds from earlier in life. It's more deeply about your "beliefs" and programs stored in your mind/body about what a relationship can mean, both bad and good. And what those underlying fears really are. Admittedly, I had to take a step away from this after reading it and come back hours later to it cause it triggered me quite a bit. For one, I think this applied to both of us in the relationship. My ex-gf does have trouble making big decisions and one fight we got into during the pandemic she was stressing out over a part-time job and housing decision and I told her I sometimes felt like I was her dad. Her response was that she wouldn't come to me and that she'd handle it herself. My childhood was rough. My mom would forget to pick me up from soccer or baseball practice or school, she is a hoarder and the house is still messy (although much better now than until I was in high school), she'd constantly yell at us and hit us, my parents told me three times they were getting a divorce and on and on. She called the cops on my dad once saying he hit her (which was very much untrue and the cops and didn't believe her.) She tried to commit suicide when I was in high school and I was the one who found her upstairs on the ground. Despite all that, my dad has never made any changes because he's afraid of being alone, even though he has four amazing kids who take care of him. He's given up. I think I was subconsciously having emotional flashbacks. I came home in May during a furlough week from my job and had a major breakdown to my sister and dad where I told them I have a lot of childhood trauma. I didn't really know what suddenly brought it on, minus a really awful, disgusting, hurtful comment my sister made that just triggered a major outburst and breakdown. I thought it was the stress of everything, but now I might know why. 2020 was supposed to be a big year for me. My gf and I were finally living together for the first time right before the pandemic and once she moved out there, things seemed really good -- we both had jobs, she started school, I finished school, we were getting out and doing stuff, on a kickball team, I was incorporating her into my friend group (big step for me), etc. Honestly, I just tried so hard to make everything perfect that 1) I put a lot of stress on myself because I didn't wanna disappoint her and 2) I took the pandemic ruining things really hard. It just feeds into my intrusive thoughts that I'm not allowed to be happy, even though I had a ton going for me -- amazing gf, great job, living in a city I want, and supportive family. I'm now recognizing some feelings of my independence being threatened by living with her. I really feel like I messed up :/ I really wanna fix all this.
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simon
New Member
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Post by simon on Jan 21, 2021 11:44:07 GMT
You didn't "mess up". You and your gf are a "system" that inter-connect... you both have wounds that need healing, and they were going to come up and out one way or another. Sad or difficult as it might be to see or believe, both of you played a role in triggering each other to bring these things to the surface that need attention and healing. And likely you seeing your gf as a bit "weak" or childlike (common with CPTSD trauma and being able to make decisions/passivity/learned helplessness) triggers you, worrying about someone being dependent on you or not "whole"... in the way that your mom was unreliable and dependent. OF course, that thought SHOULD scare you, as it would any healthy person. And if I really wanted to fark with your mind, I would point out that likely you knew this about your GF and chose her because of this similarity (unconsciously) in order to trigger these wounds and/or re-enact this pattern of dependency in a desire to "fix" your mother and her ways from the past. Look up "imago theory". But that is a bit deep for now. ;-) It is important to see "conflict" as simply just an opportunity for growth and healing, and meant to be, as it is. You come across as having an immense sense of self-awareness that is growing every day, and that bodes very well for your healing journey. I am impressed. Neither of you are bad people, nor deserve to have had these things happen... it's just that bad things happened "to" you. It's not your fault, but it is now your responsibility. But the way to "fix" all this is not to fix the "Relationship"... this has nothing to do with that, actually. The way to "fix" all this is to fix the childhood wounds that both of you carry, and then the relationship fixes itself. Cheers. edit: To be very clear, maybe or maybe not you two are meant for each other... but the patterns and conflict you both are experiencing is actually projections from the past, and not actually about the present moment. So to "fix" the relationship that is trying to work in the present moment, you both have to heal the wounds that are bubbling up from past events - this is what is blocking that possibility. And Thais video might be this one, not positive... youtu.be/j12Q4FZhpvI
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