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Post by LPC on Mar 24, 2016 20:29:40 GMT
I just read this:
"If you’re older, bad news: while you were spending time and effort on relationships you were hoping would turn out better, or even happily nestled in a good relationship or two, most of the secure, reliable, sane people in your age group got paired off. They’re married or happily enfamilied, and most of the people your age in the dating pool are tragically unable to form a good long-term relationship. You should always ask yourself, “why is this one still available?”—there may be a good answer (recently widowed or left a long-term relationship), or it may be that this person has just been extraordinarily unlucky in having over twenty short relationships in twenty years (to cite one case!) But it’s far more likely you have met someone with a problematic attachment style. As you age past 40, the percentage of the dating pool that is able to form a secure, stable relationship drops to less than 30%; and since it can take months of dating to understand why Mr. or Ms. SeemsNice is really the future ex-partner from Hell, being able to recognize the difficult types will help you recognize them faster and move on to the next."
And i have to say, I understand that it is trying to be helpful, but I think it is actually harmful. I don't think a person with an anxious attachment style should ever be encouraged in the "scarcity mentality" that is already a problematic hallmark of their attachment style!!! It may be true that there are fewer secure types in the dating pool as we age, but how does saying that help at all? Rather, let's focus on helping people identify and avoid avoidants. As I read this paragraph, my heart sank, and my anxious slef started to think "Screw it, being with an avoidant is better than being alone." That was a much louder clammer than the info that I can learn to recognize and avoid avoidants.
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katy
Sticky Post Powers
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Post by katy on Mar 25, 2016 1:47:52 GMT
I'm not sure I agree with you that the anxious attachment style is preoccupied with a global scarcity of potential mates. The anxious attachment style is referring to being in a specific relationship and feeling that you need to be constantly "in touch" with your partner to feel OK. An anxious attachment style needs constant demonstrations that everything is OK in the relationship.
The people with problem attachment styles referred to in the above paragraphs often have avoidant styles and don't want to be in constant touch. They feel more comfortable being very removed and distant, which makes an anxious person even more anxious. When an anxious person requests reassurance, an avoidant person will feel very threatened and will often pull away even more.
The push / pull between an avoidant style and an anxious style is a very difficult long-term combination. Both people end up feeling very unsatisfied on a very primal level. I think the above paragraph was simply stating that it's good to try to identify an avoidant as soon as possible so that you are not dragged into long-term misery.
I also think that in some of Jeb's writings, he discusses the fact that people who are not too avoidant and not too anxious can sometimes work on a compromise. The avoidant person would try to be a little more bonded and the anxious person would try to limit how often they reach out.
I hope things work out for you.
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Post by erasmus on Apr 5, 2016 17:44:04 GMT
LPC, where did you read this? I am new to this whole set of ideas and haven't read any of the books yet.
I have to admit that my first reaction, too, is that that passage is telling us clingy types that if we didn't find and benefit from these ideas by our very early twenties, we are doomed. Even if against all odds we manage to improve our style--and is that even possible?--no one is left out there that we can have a healthy relationship with.
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Post by Jeb Kinnison on Apr 8, 2016 22:04:31 GMT
That was the bad news! The better news (which appears in paragraphs and chapters following that bucket of cold water) is that are are always people who are good partner material for you in the dating pool -- just not as many as time goes on, and you have to learn not to get stuck in trial relationships with people that will never work for you because you're hoping the current candidate will work out despite the flaws you already know about.
The intention is not to discourage, but to dispel the unrealistic tendency to glom onto someone you have met, while not spending any effort on meeting new people and staying open to others. I would encourage you to read the books. Your courtship efforts are much more likely to get you where you want to be if you don't go into them with unrealistic expectations.
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Post by erasmus on Apr 15, 2016 17:19:08 GMT
I guess one reason I reacted so strongly to this bad news is that, for me, scarcity was a reality even when I was young and surrounded by single people. If no one will date you, or if maybe once or twice in a good year you can find someone who will consent to a single date, then for practical purposes there really isn't much of a dating pool.
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Post by Jeb Kinnison on Apr 15, 2016 19:36:26 GMT
Erasmus: not knowing anything about younger you, there are three possible explanations for not finding anyone to date: 1) You don't see many people you want to date and your lack of enthusiasm communicates to others that you aren't that interested; 2) No one "sees" you at all, because some combination of lack of looks and charm makes you invisible; 3) You are failing to pick up on subtly-expressed interest to start the dance of courtship.
I can remember being invisible myself. Instead of accepting that, one can work on outward appearances -- like building up your body, getting more athletic, losing weight, treating skin and makeup as important, dressing better -- which show that you are *trying* for others. And work on taking the lead in communicating -- the skill of chatting people up, developing body language that signals you're approachable, etc. If it's important to meet new people to date, it helps to act like it's important, without trying so hard you look desperate. Grace and confidence attract people who want to feel like their partner is able to handle life....
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Post by erasmus on Apr 15, 2016 21:41:58 GMT
Thanks for your reply, Jeb, and your useful suggestions for thinking about my past life of near-total dating failure. Of the possibilities, it certainly wasn't number 1; I saw a lot of people I'd like to date. If anything, I was desperate (and I do know that desperation and a real interest in individuals are not the same) and my desperation showed. Two, for sure, I was invisible. A few women have said I'm not bad-looking; but lack of charm, for sure, no charm at all. And yes, as I have thought in recent months about these things I have realized that there were times I didn't pick up on people's interest, or what might in any case have been interest.
Some time during the eighties, I think it was, I revived an interest in dressing well (I mentioned the sixties; grateful as I am to have come of age then, the era did kind of interrupt the development of my self-presentation skills). Alan Flusser's books were invaluable, though I didn't have (and still don't) anything like the budget for his recommendations: instead I learned a little about quality and cut and hit the thrift stores, and while I may not have much going for me, I think I can say I dress better on a smaller outlay than most. More recently I've been trying to get stronger and lose some weight--difficult because I lack not only self-discipline, but time and space. But I decided to start with just incorporating more movement and physical challenge into daily life--taking the stairs faster, doing (or attempting) a couple of push-ups or lunges in passing once in a while, that sort of thing; then a couple of weeks ago I started doing a few beginning Pilates exercises first thing in the morning, and now that that habit has started getting established I'm looking at some paleo-style routines. If nothing else, I'd like to be, as the saying goes, more useful and harder to kill. And I can, in fact, chat people up and signal approachability quite a bit better than I could when young.
So who knows--if I'm ever in a position to try dating again, maybe I wouldn't be as invisible, or as repellent when seen, as I once was. Though there are the little details of being old, bald, and relatively poor, and the fact that all the women who might have been dating prospects 40 years ago, and their younger counterparts, are now comfortably paired up.
This will seem very strange in light of what else I've written here, but I have had times in the last few months when I have felt much more confident, much more attractive, and in a way younger, than I ever did in my twenties. And I've even been able to look back on the past and reinterpret it as "look at that, you *were* attracting women, you were just too wrapped up in your own story to know it." But I don't know how to hold on to that.
P.S. (added later because for the last couple of days and nights I can't stop thinking about this): And I'm afraid that almost never dating when everyone else was, and losing my virginity so late, left deficits that can never be remedied, no matter what I do later in life. It's not just the memories and experiences that the rest of the world has that can never be mine, but the foundation that was never properly laid (pun unintended but I'll leave it, such as it is). I fear it's like the violin: you can learn at any age to draw the bow across the strings and place your fingers to make the right notes, but as any classical musician will tell you, you'll never be really good if you didn't start young.
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Post by empathy on Mar 21, 2017 16:13:16 GMT
i am an anxious preoccupied and from what i know if the older we get the wiser we get and honestly i am very afraid of dismissive avoidance partner there really is no way to find out unless you be with them for awhile and the scary part is DA are indeed increasing as we age which come to my conclusion there are more DA then AP just my theory i want to let you guys know that in japan there seems to plentiful of DA so they don't even want marriage they want is career, freedom, entertainment but oddly no sex and even they don't mind being single (both male and female)
i could be wrong but still it's some very startling news for the anyone i believe cause human's are design to be dependent on each other not be independently of each other, what i am trying to say is aren't we supposed to mate and reproduce and repeat for survival of the species or maybe we have reach a breaking point....
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Post by gaynxious on Mar 21, 2017 16:38:12 GMT
i am an anxious preoccupied and from what i know if the older we get the wiser we get and honestly i am very afraid of dismissive avoidance partner there really is no way to find out unless you be with them for awhile and the scary part is DA are indeed increasing as we age which come to my conclusion there are more DA then AP just my theory i want to let you guys know that in japan there seems to plentiful of DA so they don't even want marriage they want is career, freedom, entertainment but oddly no sex and even they don't mind being single (both male and female) i could be wrong but still it's some very startling news for the anyone i believe cause human's are design to be dependent on each other not be independently of each other, what i am trying to say is aren't we supposed to mate and reproduce and repeat for survival of the species or maybe we have reach a breaking point.... I've found identifying avoidants pretty easy. The most surefire way I have found is to ask them about their exes. If they refer to them as clingy or jealous, red flag, ask more questions. One guy volunteered that he shuts down in fights. I made a very obvious nervousness laugh to let him know that I was fine seeing him again but that he would not be making the serious dating cut. People really tell you about themselves if you listen. As for your question about aren't we designed to attach. I'd say that yes we are designed to need SOMEONE but it may not necessarily be a particular person for life. Evolution is not best fit, it's quickest answer. So in our history giving us a need for someone was enough to ensure we paired off and then the environment made monogamy the easiest way to fufill that need. Now there is no shortage of people available for shorter term relationships so the evolutionary drive may not be sufficient to form life long relationships in the modern environment. I'm still hopeful but we need to accept that due to economic and social factors we aren't as forced to stay with someone, and there are definitely advantages to this, but that also leaves less incentive to do the work to make something last.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 4:55:31 GMT
After 40, or at least your very late 40s, it gets real simple: If you're female in your late 40s, you've "hit the wall", your looks are gone, you've had your time in the sun, it's game over if you didn't lasso a husband yet. It's all one-night stands from here on out. (This is the time you'll finally remember all those "boring nice guys" you spurned in your youth who would have married you in a heartbeat back then.) If you're male and you're still light in the wallet, or whose wallet has experienced calamitous loss, then you're done, too. You've got a very slight chance of busting your tail and getting financially lucky still, but not much. Time is short, and even older women would rather bitch and moan about being lonely or being constantly pumped-and-dumped by wealthier men they want but can never have, rather than be in a relationship with you. You're better off just finding a purpose to work towards with your remaining time, a cause that you'll be remembered by after you're gone. As to the remaining dregs of your testosterone and sex drive, masturbation will be it for you. If you're a male in your late 40s who is wealthy, then the sky is the limit for you: You are now the male equivalent of the 18 year old female hottie with the big boobs and great a##. You get whatever attention you want from the opposite sex, whenever you want it, and as much of it as you want (and as young and nubile as you want). You call the shots. Of course, if you are somehow still an anxious, you're still gonna screw this up. It's that simple. That's life. That's the aging breakdown of sexual market value in the real world.
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Post by tnr9 on Dec 24, 2017 20:27:46 GMT
After 40, or at least your very late 40s, it gets real simple: If you're female in your late 40s, you've "hit the wall", your looks are gone, you've had your time in the sun, it's game over if you didn't lasso a husband yet. It's all one-night stands from here on out. (This is the time you'll finally remember all those "boring nice guys" you spurned in your youth who would have married you in a heartbeat back then.) If you're male and you're still light in the wallet, or whose wallet has experienced calamitous loss, then you're done, too. You've got a very slight chance of busting your tail and getting financially lucky still, but not much. Time is short, and even older women would rather bitch and moan about being lonely or being constantly pumped-and-dumped by wealthier men they want but can never have, rather than be in a relationship with you. You're better off just finding a purpose to work towards with your remaining time, a cause that you'll be remembered by after you're gone. As to the remaining dregs of your testosterone and sex drive, masturbation will be it for you. If you're a male in your late 40s who is wealthy, then the sky is the limit for you: You are now the male equivalent of the 18 year old female hottie with the big boobs and great a##. You get whatever attention you want from the opposite sex, whenever you want it, and as much of it as you want (and as young and nubile as you want). You call the shots. Of course, if you are somehow still an anxious, you're still gonna screw this up. It's that simple. That's life. That's the aging breakdown of sexual market value in the real world. Wow....I don't agree about the guy who is light in the wallet as not having any prospect....that seems to indicate that money defines a man's ability to marry....and I think that is a perception of men...but is not the reality from women.
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