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Post by alexandra on May 26, 2021 18:29:30 GMT
I completely understand, and I was the same way for a long time. Because insecures tend to be surrounded with and then later surround themselves with other insecures, everything I wrote about certainly does feel alien. If someone said everything I just said to you while I was still AP, I'd have had a very difficult time relating to it. But even though I couldn't viscerally understand it, I think it's important to have exposure to those perspectives to keep in the back of your head and come back to later as you do all this exploration. My experience in this way was very strange, because I got triggered anxious to all hell for a week and a half by a second breakup with my FA ex (the one who led to my doing all the painful hard work to get almost secure right before the second breakup), and then I woke up in the morning and all my thought patterns changed and everything I'd worked on the couple years prior just clicked. All the stuff I've said to you that I didn't feel viscerally as AP made sense all of the sudden and I tested secure from there on out. And I agree and understand about the intoxication that eventually isn't worth it, because AP feel those same sparks without the avoidance kicking in later, and feel the same "lack of chemistry" with secures. I really wasn't ready to date anyone secure until I was very far along with my own security, and now I appreciate having a secure partner so much but it wouldn't have worked for me if we'd met much earlier in my life (or for him since he's also earned secure from DA). If so much of our patterns are subconscious, what is your opinion on hypnotherapy type interventions? Psuedoscience or big potential? I don't know the answer to this because I've never tried. My opinion is you need to bring the unconscious to the surface consciously, and for me I had to do this with a combination of analysis (both learning and introspection) and with some new athletic hobbies that got me in my body to be more present (and as I believe I already mentioned, this wasn't an intentional part of my process and I only realized it in retrospect). I know things like EDMR can work for healing certain things, but I really don't know much about it or how those unconscious healing mechanisms work. |
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Post by krolle on May 29, 2021 4:30:59 GMT
Found out tonight through mutual friends that my ex has been officially diagnosed with BPD after all. I feel at least somewhat vindicated for my suffering. Though am still very aware of the need for me to take accountability of the mistakes I made in the relationship.
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Post by alexandra on May 29, 2021 16:22:24 GMT
This is good news! Not because it vindicates your suffering (though people with loved ones with cluster B-PDs generally endure a lot of abuse, so it certainly happened and I'm not minimizing that), but because now you know exactly what you should hone in on to find resources. I'd recommend starting with searching for resources about recovering from a breakup with someone with borderline (example: www.bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality), in addition to digging into your FA with the resources you've gotten in this thread. You may need more time to come to terms with the breakup, heartbreak, and recover from all the complicated facets of your relationship first, which is totally okay. Disengaging from a relationship with someone with a PD is very difficult and brings unique challenges versus other types of breakups, but again, the good news is it's a common enough experience that you can find free information and people who have been through similar experiences to help. |
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Post by anne12 on May 31, 2021 6:44:10 GMT
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Post by krolle on Jun 4, 2021 4:04:45 GMT
Really feeling very down tonight and just needed to vent a little.
I don't know if I have a bullseye painted on my head or just some really bad self esteem/ attachment issues. But I sure know how to pick em.
I haven't really been dating much for the last year and a half. When things ended with my ex she threatened that if she saw me with another girl she would make me regret it. I know she is more than capable of following through on vengeful threats from past experience and I'm so exhausted, so I'v just sort of tapped out of dating for a while.
Anyhow, by sheer luck I met a girl randomly a few months ago, quickly told her I was still processing some trauma and wasn't ready to be in a relationship, but we could explore a friendship (I'v been quiet lonely for a while so new friends are of value to me). She seemed nice enough and we enjoy each other's company, compatible senses of humour etc. But things started getting....weird in an all too familiar way.
Of course a month or 2 after getting to know her she sits me down and tells me......you guessed it...She is borderline.....sigh...
Anyhow I'v still been trying to enjoy our friendship and keep her at "safe" distance because when she is not triggered she is really a pleasure to be around. But tonight was particularly bad. She said she was feeling really off and needed a friend so I went round to see if I could cheer her up. of course 15 minutes after getting there she just snaps. incredible hostility, name calling, uncontrollable tears, threats..... It's so weird when they're triggered. Hard to even believe if youve never experienced it. like a possession or something, even their eyes change.
I reacted with what I can only imagine is PTSD type behaviour. I began to shake violently and feel very panicked and sweating, having flashbacks of my last relationship etc. But managed to hold it together externally as much as I could.
Long story short I ended up taking her to the hospital to get psychological help. apparently she's been before and they have been able to help her. She was talking about burning down people's houses and other quiet terrifying things. I didn't know what else to do.
Anyway I like to think most of my posts are usually more balanced and cerebral than a simple vent. But I needed this tonight. I'm feeling very low.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 4, 2021 9:30:54 GMT
Really feeling very down tonight and just needed to vent a little. I don't know if I have a bullseye painted on my head or just some really bad self esteem/ attachment issues. But I sure know how to pick em. I haven't really been dating much for the last year and a half. When things ended with my ex she threatened that if she saw me with another girl she would make me regret it. I know she is more than capable of following through on vengeful threats from past experience and I'm so exhausted, so I'v just sort of tapped out of dating for a while. Anyhow, by sheer luck I met a girl randomly a few months ago, quickly told her I was still processing some trauma and wasn't ready to be in a relationship, but we could explore a friendship (I'v been quiet lonely for a while so new friends are of value to me). She seemed nice enough and we enjoy each other's company, compatible senses of humour etc. But things started getting....weird in an all too familiar way. Of course a month or 2 after getting to know her she sits me down and tells me......you guessed it...She is borderline.....sigh... Anyhow I'v still been trying to enjoy our friendship and keep her at "safe" distance because when she is not triggered she is really a pleasure to be around. But tonight was particularly bad. She said she was feeling really off and needed a friend so I went round to see if I could cheer her up. of course 15 minutes after getting there she just snaps. incredible hostility, name calling, uncontrollable tears, threats..... It's so weird when they're triggered. Hard to even believe if youve never experienced it. like a possession or something, even their eyes change. I reacted with what I can only imagine is PTSD type behaviour. I began to shake violently and feel very panicked and sweating, having flashbacks of my last relationship etc. But managed to hold it together externally as much as I could. Long story short I ended up taking her to the hospital to get psychological help. apparently she's been before and they have been able to help her. She was talking about burning down people's houses and other quiet terrifying things. I didn't know what else to do. Anyway I like to think most of my posts are usually more balanced and cerebral than a simple vent. But I needed this tonight. I'm feeling very low. Wow.....I am terribly sorry you went through that. It was very astute of you to recognize being triggered/negatively impacted by her behavior. I think anyone who experienced such extreme behavior would have been impacted by it. It sounds like a boundary adjustment may be in order to protect you. Have you done any boundary work? |
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Post by krolle on Jun 4, 2021 14:46:42 GMT
[/quote]Wow.....I am terribly sorry you went through that. It was very astute of you to recognize being triggered/negatively impacted by her behavior. I think anyone who experienced such extreme behavior would have been impacted by it. It sounds like a boundary adjustment may be in order to protect you. Have you done any boundary work? [/quote]
Thank you for the empathy. It was a very stressful experience. I did manage to stay present when I was under threat, though I could not stop the physical sensations (shaking, sweating etc) I was mindful of them. I was trying to remember the skills I'v learned and to try not take it personally. But it's very difficult when your nervous system knows you being attacked to stay grounded. I think I handled it as well as I could have. The link Alexandra posted earlier in the thread was very useful.
You are 100% correct, there a big boundary issues at play. The main problem I have encountered is that I cannot find a practical solution to uphold those boundaries in the face of BPD. Anytime I act assertively to state or maintain what I perceive are fair boundaries, they are bulldozed with violence, aggression and threat.
An example I could give from the past would be that I have told people before that I will not tolerate repeatedly being called offensive names. And if you become violent with me I will walk out. But the resultant behaviour when they inevitably got triggered was abusive name calling and aggresive behaviour. So I left. And then the stalking type behaviours begin, threats of contacting the police to fabricate a story about me being the purpotrator of domestic abuse, guilt tripping, holding possessions hostage, social media slander campaigns etc.
As far as I have experienced things it's a case of "you do what I say or I will do anything I can to ruin your life" type of deal.
How do you uphold your boundaries in the face of that kind of stuff?
And so far I have been unable to identify signs of personality problems early enough to avoid investment. usually the worrying behaviours don't begin until they have some kind of leverage.
Venting aside, I exercise compassion as often as possible because I know they are suffering a lot themselves to engage in such behaviour. But I am yet to come up with practical solutions to either leave the situations safely or find a healthy modus vivendi.
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Post by star on Jun 25, 2021 22:06:08 GMT
krolle im so sorry you had to experience that (more than once!) it sounds demoralizing and terrifying. just wanted to note how awesome I thought it was that you were up front with her in the beginning about what you were capable of offering- I think that was setting a clear boundary but also just being real and owing what you're able to bring to the table at the moment.
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Post by krolle on Jun 28, 2021 16:44:39 GMT
Thank you for all the kind words and validation. It means a lot. I'm trying my best to get the skills to relate better. this forum has been really helpful.
Recently I also found out that not only does my ex have a diagnosis of BPD. But that her, and likely her family knew about it before I even moved here to be with her. And in all that time nobody thought to discuss it with me? help me understand why I was struggling to understand things. I had never even heard of it until recently.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread I moved from home quiet a substantial way to be with her, sold my Car, quit my job, left my friends/family etc. I feel like everything for the past 6 years of my life was a lie, and just an attempt to trap me or something. And I feel angry that everyone blamed me when sh*t hit the fan. I feel angry that I had to be alone and scared and under constant attack. And I feel angry that I'm not sure what's real anymore.
I'v also come to the conclusion that I likely have a trauma bond with her. Because no matter how awful she speaks to me, and how much comes back to me about the horrors of living with her. I still miss her terribly.Its really not a good spot to be in lol.
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Post by krolle on Aug 23, 2021 12:29:20 GMT
More borderline attacks yesterday. I feel utterly drained.
This stuff is unbelievably destructive.
I'm also really questioning whether I have NPD as accused....once again.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 23, 2021 13:18:44 GMT
More borderline attacks yesterday. I feel utterly drained. This stuff is unbelievably destructive. I'm also really questioning whether I have NPD as accused....once again. I remember watching a YouTube video about toxic people and the line that stood out for me was you can’t “change” the people around you…but you can change the people “around” you. I second the inquiry from anne12….why are you still in contact with her? |
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Post by annieb on Aug 23, 2021 15:59:40 GMT
More borderline attacks yesterday. Get away from that person, block, delete their number, their Facebook, etc. You need to completely disconnect and go no contact even if it is painful and you “want” to check on them or check in. I feel utterly drained. Anyone would. This stuff is unbelievably destructive. It is! I'm also really questioning whether I have NPD as accused....once again. You very well may have coping strategies that are maladaptive, we all do, but that doesn’t mean you deserve abuse or need to be exposed to it. If your fear of abandonment is so great that you can’t cut contact, this is the time to tear off the bandaid. I would think up what soothing strategies I would use if I did stop talking to them and what that would feel like. Fantasize about a few coping strategies and see maybe one of them seems appealing. |
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Post by mrob on Aug 24, 2021 12:51:46 GMT
I don’t think anybody who gets here comes here tip toeing through the tulips. Pain is a pretty good motivator, but you can get off at any station you like, krolle, and start anew. Blocking sometimes has to be done to put distance and time between people. It isn’t always a malicious act. |
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Post by krolle on Aug 24, 2021 14:24:19 GMT
Thankyou for the responses guys.
Whilst I can't deny I do still have feelings for my ex. I have actually gone no contact for quiet a while with her now. After trying to reconcile for a long time and getting nothing but hostility in return it is finally hitting home that there's nothing I can do to help her.
In terms of these latest 'attacks'. They are actually from my BPD 'friend' I talked about if you look back earlier in the thread. Whom I have NO fear of abandonment in losing.
But unless you guys have been seriously involved with a borderline person you have no idea how difficult it is to just cut ties. Part of the initial phase where they act really lovely and seem trustworthy has at least a partial goal of gaining leverage over you for future use.
The extreme behaviours they will go to in order to prevent you leaving are sometimes terrifying. The main goal is to isolate and control you, you effectively become a commodity. As I have said before I have come to realize that this behaviour is done out of desperation, not true malevolence.
For example a friend of mine tried to stand up for me when she was particularly threatening. And with unwavering conviction told him that she would go to the police and make accusation of him being a peadophile. Now I know its unlikely they would be taken too seriously without evidence. But he's a school teacher. Even the accusation would be a serious threat to his career in today's climate. So he bowed out and just said sorry man, I can't risk helping you.
A little while ago she got a new boyfriend and said she didn't want to talk to me because I was a toxic narcassist. Really what I was trying is grey rock method. I was just so neutral and bland around her in hope she would become disinterested. And it worked for a while and she got the new romantic interest.
But of course when that ended and she needed attention she turned the screw on me again. Showed up uninvited at 11pm all teary with mascara running down her face. Decided to rip me a new one about how much of a horrible person I am and that I deserve to be punished, citing completely fabricated ways I had abused her. I tried every DBT skill in the book to withhold my boundaries. Luckily getting her to calm down and leave after a couple hours of insults and threats. I don't even know how she got in the building? it's a private complex.
I have talked to a friend of mine since who is in the police to get some advice on how to proceed. But she is also involved with some very undesirable people through her drug use, so I'm somewhat worried about going to the cops.
......On the slightly more positive note. I'm going on a second date with a woman this week. The first one we had last week was my first actual date in almost 2 years, and it went pretty well. But I'm very wary especially about looking for BPD red flags. And I'm worried I'm being hyper vigilant about it and might dismiss her unfairly. I plan on starting a new thread about it as my trust in my own judgement is very shakey, so I'll let you guys know how it goes.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 24, 2021 15:09:46 GMT
Thankyou for the responses guys. Whilst I can't deny I do still have feelings for my ex. I have actually gone no contact for quiet a while with her now. After trying to reconcile for a long time and getting nothing but hostility in return it is finally hitting home that there's nothing I can do to help her. In terms of these latest 'attacks'. They are actually from my BPD 'friend' I talked about if you look back earlier in the thread. Whom I have NO fear of abandonment in losing. But unless you guys have been seriously involved with a borderline person you have no idea how difficult it is to just cut ties. Part of the initial phase where they act really lovely and seem trustworthy has at least a partial goal of gaining leverage over you for future use. The extreme behaviours they will go to in order to prevent you leaving are sometimes terrifying. The main goal is to isolate and control you, you effectively become a commodity. As I have said before I have come to realize that this behaviour is done out of desperation, not true malevolence. For example a friend of mine tried to stand up for me when she was particularly threatening. And with unwavering conviction told him that she would go to the police and make accusation of him being a peadophile. Now I know its unlikely they would be taken too seriously without evidence. But he's a school teacher. Even the accusation would be a serious threat to his career in today's climate. So he bowed out and just said sorry man, I can't risk helping you. A little while ago she got a new boyfriend and said she didn't want to talk to me because I was a toxic narcassist. Really what I was trying is grey rock method. I was just so neutral and bland around her in hope she would become disinterested. And it worked for a while and she got the new romantic interest. But of course when that ended and she needed attention she turned the screw on me again. Showed up uninvited at 11pm all teary with mascara running down her face. Decided to rip me a new one about how much of a horrible person I am and that I deserve to be punished, citing completely fabricated ways I had abused her. I tried every DBT skill in the book to withhold my boundaries. Luckily getting her to calm down and leave after a couple hours of insults and threats. I don't even know how she got in the building? it's a private complex. I have talked to a friend of mine since who is in the police to get some advice on how to proceed. But she is also involved with some very undesirable people through her drug use, so I'm somewhat worried about going to the cops. ......On the slightly more positive note. I'm going on a second date with a woman this week. The first one we had last week was my first actual date in almost 2 years, and it went pretty well. But I'm very wary especially about looking for BPD red flags. And I'm worried I'm being hyper vigilant about it and might dismiss her unfairly. I plan on starting a new thread about it as my trust in my own judgement is very shakey, so I'll let you guys know how it goes. Oh man…that is quite a tough position. I don’t have any friends with BPD so I would not be a good source with your next steps…but I believe alexandra had a friend with BPD so maybe she can help. |
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If so much of our patterns are subconscious, what is your opinion on hypnotherapy type interventions? Psuedoscience or big potential?
