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Post by asingers1 on May 24, 2021 21:30:32 GMT
Some advice needed please ??
May 2020 I met a lady 35 years of age single mum of 2 and we hit it off. Things started off casual and very much based around sex and keeping things fun and casual. After a few months she stated that she really liked me and wanted more than just fun and asked if I like her or not. After a deep and honest conversation about my own issues with being vulnerable and opening up I told her I really did like her more than just fun. She assured me it wasn’t a rebound and she was over her ex who she has kids with and even made me feel it was something with a future “ I didn’t know I could feel this way again” “it’s special” and so on and being honest I felt like I found the perfect person for me. About 3 months in I noticed her behaviour changed after seeing her ex and it took a few days for things to go back to normal each time until mid July when things seemed off again and I asked to talk she got really defensive and just pushed and pushed until I finished things. The change in behaviour was so weird I even found myself googling “can a person be hypnotised or re-programmed” as it was once again after seeing her ex. It just blind sided me. A few weeks past and she still viewed social media stories and posts and after a few weeks msg me just talking normally and we arranged to meet up and talk. After talking we agreed to give things another go and it was “special” to her and more to it than just a fling. From that moment on though things changed, the person I met who was honest and upfront became very hot and cold being really into me and the future to making comments like “it’s just casual anyway” a few more months of things being hot and cold we got to a point where she sent me pics of her ex convo asking if she was seeing someone and she told him she was still seeing me. She Booked dinner out for the weekend and even asked me to go to a friends party with her that weekend coming. By the time I woke up in the morning the way she text and spoke to me had completely changed again after speaking to her ex, the next 5 days we didn’t really see each other didn’t go to the party as she didn’t feel well and when we did finally meet up her phone went off and she was back on tinder and acted like we were only casual so I shouldn’t be upset. I got the hump and went home and even said she pushes things to make me split with her and she didn’t seemed bothered at all, a week later after splitting up I asked to get my things and when collecting them she was really angry and bitter towards me then acted panicked when I was leaving it was just all a bit weird. I finally pushed her to tell me what was going on and she admitted after speaking to her ex about seeing me it kicked up old feelings with him and spun her head. I asked to meet and have an honest conversation after she text that and got met with the most abusive angry texts basically telling me “go away” she had nothing to say and to delete her off socials with no real answers or explication , so I did. I went from being angry and upset someone could be so cruel and cold to really wanting to understand why? And how it just didn’t add up?? I went no contact from September until Jan when I accidentally liked and old post on Instagram in our DM’s and she msg’s saying “I’m so glad you liked an old post, I still think about you, songs remind me of you and I keep wondering how you are” the moment I was friendly and said I still thought about her she then told me she wasn’t over her ex and she was sorry for how she treated me, a pattern occurs when it comes to him and how she treated me isn’t who she is or how she wanted to leave things. she however kept going out her way to make it clear she has no feelings for me even when I haven’t asked and that zero attraction remains again when I’ve not asked or acted like I wanted it too,. It was weird as she wanted to tell me she still thinks about me but then slammed her ex down my throat. After a few weeks I msg and said it either meant more than she acted as going out her way to throw her ex down my throat every time was a bit much or it meant nothing and it’s trying to be cruel. She replied saying I meant more to her than she made out and she acted so cold as her ex didn’t like she had feelings for me or history with me so she panicked and just cut off feelings and then cut me off . I basically left things saying I hope she sorts things in life to be happy. Before understanding or reading up on attachment styles or bdp I’d reached out and told her I’d forgiven her and just wanted her to be happy. She replied telling me she’s gone back to her ex yet again and she’s not sure why he has such a hold over her and I didn’t ask. Is this normal??
We’re not friends on social media, we don’t speak unless I reach out and I honestly don’t think she has any feelings for me anymore. What I’m struggling to understand is why life would put someone in front of me who felt so right, what I’m trying to understand is. If it’s FA and me being vulnerable triggered her is it normal for someone to act so cruel and even talk to someone they said some pretty emotional and in-depth things too like it was really real for them. If it’s BPD and it’s splitting is it normal for that person to remember how they felt before splitting and if it’s DA do people act the same. What I’m wondering is if this person will one day remember how things felt. The fact feelings, memories to things said and interactions went from so loving and caring to them being so ok with talking to me like it was nothing. Is this normal. Will this person ever think of me like they used too or was this just some cruel game the universe decided to play on me,
Thanks any advice is welcomed
Ps she still with her ex, I’ve not tried wining her back or explaining anything I just want to know for myself
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Post by alexandra on May 25, 2021 0:32:58 GMT
Not enough here to say if she's BPD, but it doesn't sound like it. BPD is more than just splitting, it's lack of ability to emotionally regulate past the level of a child, inability to have object permanence, impulsivity, can get mad (or idealize you) at the drop of a dime based in abandonment fears and perceived slights real or imagined, it's pathological.
She sounds either FA or AP, co-dependent with her ex, and on the rebound. You unfortunately got caught up in it because she doesn't know or understand herself. You've done the right thing in walking away, letting her be, and tending to your wounds. Mourn the relationship and get over it, because the bottom line is she's not emotionally healthy to be in a new relationship, no matter what the issue is exactly. Going from seeming really open during your honeymoon period (which was also a safe time because it was casual and she couldn't entirely have you so didn't fear engulfment or introspect about where she's at with her ex, no labels felt safe) to flip flopping hot and cold is an experience I've had with FAs, FWIW. Her losing interest once you opened up more also tracks with that. Unaware FA are more attracted to people not fully available, usually more avoidant than they are, and flip once someone is more available and committed because it freaks out their nervous system. They want to have a companion but keep distance, too, due to their intimacy, abandonment, and engulfment fears.
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Post by tnr9 on May 25, 2021 1:55:12 GMT
I agree that she is not a DA but likely an FA who has a codependent relationship with her ex.
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Post by guest on May 25, 2021 5:34:34 GMT
My advice is to use paragraphs when writing posts in self help forums.
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Post by asingers1 on May 25, 2021 12:48:59 GMT
My advice is to use paragraphs when writing posts in self help forums. I’ll be sure to work on my dyslexic dumbass and lack of correct grammar or paragraphs ASAP for you, my bad if it’s offended you tho! As soon as I put my brain back together or I’ve healed from my FA issues, I’ll get on that yeah!!! Thanks for the input twat 👍🏻 |
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Post by asingers1 on May 25, 2021 12:52:20 GMT
My advice is to use paragraphs when writing posts in self help forums. Thanks I really appreciate the insight, I’ve done more reading up and looking into FA’s and it seems like more of a fit, nothing I can do about it but it’s nice to know there is actually a real reason for someone’s actions not just a cruel person with bad intentions. Makes it easier to deal with and leave thing’s tbf. Many thanks 🙏🏻 |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2021 13:23:54 GMT
My advice is to use paragraphs when writing posts in self help forums. I’ll be sure to work on my dyslexic dumbass and lack of correct grammar or paragraphs ASAP for you, my bad if it’s offended you tho! As soon as I put my brain back together or I’ve healed from my FA issues, I’ll get on that yeah!!! Thanks for the input 👍🏻 Man, I'm sorry you drew the rude attention of some guest. It looks like there are only a very few (4-5) members who actually post on the forum, it's very slow and limited input. There is a great thread about Healing Disorganized (FA) attachment that might give you some insight. anne12 posts a lot of helpful information. I'm thinking there are surely more active/diverse discussion forums in the topic but I haven't looked around. Best of luck to you! |
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Post by alexandra on May 25, 2021 14:01:38 GMT
I’ve done more reading up and looking into FA’s and it seems like more of a fit, nothing I can do about it but it’s nice to know there is actually a real reason for someone’s actions not just a cruel person with bad intentions. Makes it easier to deal with and leave thing’s tbf. Many thanks 🙏🏻 It's generally not intentionally malicious, but hurt people hurt people if they're not ready to confront their issues and do some hard work. It's crappy, because she probably had some bad things to endure earlier in life, but yes. There's nothing you can do besides wish her well, move on, and hopefully find a better match when you're ready. |
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Post by asingers1 on May 25, 2021 14:11:49 GMT
Not enough here to say if she's BPD, but it doesn't sound like it. BPD is more than just splitting, it's lack of ability to emotionally regulate past the level of a child, inability to have object permanence, impulsivity, can get mad (or idealize you) at the drop of a dime based in abandonment fears and perceived slights real or imagined, it's pathological. She sounds either FA or AP, co-dependent with her ex, and on the rebound. You unfortunately got caught up in it because she doesn't know or understand herself. You've done the right thing in walking away, letting her be, and tending to your wounds. Mourn the relationship and get over it, because the bottom line is she's not emotionally healthy to be in a new relationship, no matter what the issue is exactly. Going from seeming really open during your honeymoon period (which was also a safe time because it was casual and she couldn't entirely have you so didn't fear engulfment or introspect about where she's at with her ex, no labels felt safe) to flip flopping hot and cold is an experience I've had with FAs, FWIW. Her losing interest once you opened up more also tracks with that. Unaware FA are more attracted to people not fully available, usually more avoidant than they are, and flip once someone is more available and committed because it freaks out their nervous system. They want to have a companion but keep distance, too, due to their intimacy, abandonment, and engulfment fears. This is really helpful, thank you. I don’t mind someone changes how they feel towards me I even asked her to just say if her feelings had changed but she never once took the kind way out. The woman I met vanished over night and then never came back and instead of ending things on a kinder note I’m still left wondering... Is it the only way out of a relationship for an FA’s is to smash someone apart or push and push until they see them as anxious to then discard them? |
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Post by tnr9 on May 25, 2021 14:44:25 GMT
Not enough here to say if she's BPD, but it doesn't sound like it. BPD is more than just splitting, it's lack of ability to emotionally regulate past the level of a child, inability to have object permanence, impulsivity, can get mad (or idealize you) at the drop of a dime based in abandonment fears and perceived slights real or imagined, it's pathological. She sounds either FA or AP, co-dependent with her ex, and on the rebound. You unfortunately got caught up in it because she doesn't know or understand herself. You've done the right thing in walking away, letting her be, and tending to your wounds. Mourn the relationship and get over it, because the bottom line is she's not emotionally healthy to be in a new relationship, no matter what the issue is exactly. Going from seeming really open during your honeymoon period (which was also a safe time because it was casual and she couldn't entirely have you so didn't fear engulfment or introspect about where she's at with her ex, no labels felt safe) to flip flopping hot and cold is an experience I've had with FAs, FWIW. Her losing interest once you opened up more also tracks with that. Unaware FA are more attracted to people not fully available, usually more avoidant than they are, and flip once someone is more available and committed because it freaks out their nervous system. They want to have a companion but keep distance, too, due to their intimacy, abandonment, and engulfment fears. This is really helpful, thank you. I don’t mind someone changes how they feel towards me I even asked her to just say if her feelings had changed but she never once took the kind way out. The woman I met vanished over night and then never came back and instead of ending things on a kinder note I’m still left wondering... Is it the only way out of a relationship for an FA’s is to smash someone apart or push and push until they see them as anxious to then discard them? Short answer is nope....but I will expand later. Btw....I am an FA but I tend to lean anxious in relationships. |
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Post by asingers1 on May 25, 2021 18:38:33 GMT
This is really helpful, thank you. I don’t mind someone changes how they feel towards me I even asked her to just say if her feelings had changed but she never once took the kind way out. The woman I met vanished over night and then never came back and instead of ending things on a kinder note I’m still left wondering... Is it the only way out of a relationship for an FA’s is to smash someone apart or push and push until they see them as anxious to then discard them? Short answer is nope....but I will expand later. Btw....I am an FA but I tend to lean anxious in relationships. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Stupidly I don’t mind she’s an FA I’m all for someone healing past trauma and having a happy life. I even get to her and how she now remembers things I was literally just a blip on the map. What I don’t like is I was emotionally, mentally and physically better off having never met this person so why F the universe sent me this delight is beyond me and I have to get answers or be ok with it. I swallowed her going back to her ex and even said I get that it’s the father of her children so I’ll leave her be,, we spoke in Jan and she seemed full of remorse but if I had known then how to interact with an FA I still wouldn’t of been different . I can see from a mile off being nice is seen as needy and less appealing but I still choose to play nice as it makes her run for the hills, after I decided if I didn’t get the person I met back and if I couldn’t accept the person she is now I’d do more harm than good and that’s not the point. Accepting even just her as person means the whole package, the good person aka love bombing git I met and the evil fucktard that showed up over night . it’s unfair to only want to know someone if it’s all sunshine and rainbows. It’s annoying and pointless to day dreaming about things working out....how would that convo even go. It’s not my place to tell someone they have trauma or issues so in the end I’m left to just learn and I hopefully I don’t need answers from her after, if she’s trauma bonded to her ex’s would that trigger the inner rage and coldness towards me???, Stupidly. I don’t know why but every part of me is telling me at someone point she’ll be back and as little as I think I mean to her or don’t actually think it’s a good idea I have a uneasy feeling like she’s not finished with me yet and not in a healthy way either lol I’m also not wanting to pull her back, so much so I deliberately break the no contact rule every 40 odd days, even when she’s with her ex. As being kind & caring triggers that ick feeling for her about me and she bolts again. I’m still convinced she’ll show up again at some point so being healed before dealing with this again would be ideal . Being FA is ok but are FA’s normally this way over night or triggered by ex’s this way? |
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Post by tnr9 on May 25, 2021 21:25:59 GMT
Short answer is nope....but I will expand later. Btw....I am an FA but I tend to lean anxious in relationships. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Stupidly I don’t mind she’s an FA I’m all for someone healing past trauma and having a happy life. I even get to her and how she now remembers things I was literally just a blip on the map. What I don’t like is I was emotionally, mentally and physically better off having never met this person so why F the universe sent me this delight is beyond me and I have to get answers or be ok with it. I swallowed her going back to her ex and even said I get that it’s the father of her children so I’ll leave her be,, we spoke in Jan and she seemed full of remorse but if I had known then how to interact with an FA I still wouldn’t of been different . I can see from a mile off being nice is seen as needy and less appealing but I still choose to play nice as it makes her run for the hills, after I decided if I didn’t get the person I met back and if I couldn’t accept the person she is now I’d do more harm than good and that’s not the point. Accepting even just her as person means the whole package, the good person aka love bombing git I met and the evil fucktard that showed up over night . it’s unfair to only want to know someone if it’s all sunshine and rainbows. It’s annoying and pointless to day dreaming about things working out....how would that convo even go. It’s not my place to tell someone they have trauma or issues so in the end I’m left to just learn and I hopefully I don’t need answers from her after, if she’s trauma bonded to her ex’s would that trigger the inner rage and coldness towards me???, Stupidly. I don’t know why but every part of me is telling me at someone point she’ll be back and as little as I think I mean to her or don’t actually think it’s a good idea I have a uneasy feeling like she’s not finished with me yet and not in a healthy way either lol I’m also not wanting to pull her back, so much so I deliberately break the no contact rule every 40 odd days, even when she’s with her ex. As being kind & caring triggers that ick feeling for her about me and she bolts again. I’m still convinced she’ll show up again at some point so being healed before dealing with this again would be ideal . Being FA is ok but are FA’s normally this way over night or triggered by ex’s this way? So....the main takeaway is this FA attachment forms due to “trauma”. It is that trauma that creates a nervous system that is trigger sensitive to people being too close (fear of being engulfed) or too far away(fear of being abandoned). The trauma creates a lose/lose scenario where the person doesn’t trust others or him/herself. That is where the hot/cold, come hither/move away mixed signals come from. An unaware FA is someone who is constantly in a nervous system loop....only an unaware FA won’t realize that the nervous system signals are coming from within him or her self...she will think those signals are a reaction to you. That is why she can seem so very happy one day and so very different the next. If you let her close..her fear of abandonment subsides, but now she feels the other end of the spectrum....which is the fear of engulfment. And when you back away...her fear of engulfment subsides...but them her fear of abandonment kicks in. In between all of that on the surface stuff that is bewildering is a heck of a lot of unspoken doubt and fear. People with FA hate, literally hate conflict...so a lot of stuff doesn’t get shared until it comes out as a break up. Case in point....my brother is an FA who tends to lean avoidant in relationships. He learned at a very young age, that he had to be responsible for the woman he was dating. Imagine being 7 and that is what you walk away with....you are responsible for someone else’s feelings etc. Even if you are just casually dating them. Imagine how much pressure that feels. So my brother tends to ghost women instead of discuss things....because he knows he will hurt them.....but doesn’t want to face the questions. More to come... |
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Post by annieb on May 26, 2021 0:37:18 GMT
We can't diagnose her, but if we rounded each and every one of us up, you bet we all have BPD or NPD traits, most avoidants (and insecure attachers on general) have coping strategies that are in line with both NPD and BPD. There are a lot of threads about that on this forum. With that said, what is it that YOU are getting out of the relationship with her and he hot and cold behavior? The obvious it all comes down to: Does it remind you of something you experienced growing up? Do you feel like if you just say the right thing that you will be able to change the pattern and the fate? And that once you fix that you will fix the wrongs of your past?
I personally have fallen into this same trap pretty much every time I have dated and come to think of it I have only ever dated insecure attachers, either anxious or avoidant. Since you are here, you will learn a lot about yourself and how to discern whether the other person is seeking validation from you or whether they are seeking a relationship with you. Soon you will be able to learn the difference. If I were to guess she is still very much connected to her ex, but probably not in a secure healthy way. Just like she was unable to deal with you in a healthy way, she is most likely not able to deal with anyone else. In fact she is probably in a very unhealthy more so than with you dynamic with him.
So the question is, beyond the initial love bombing stage that no doubt felt good, but it seems it only lasted a little over two months? What beyond that (and you can be sure about that that much of the time she was performing for validation), what beyond these three months do you find attractive in her? What values do you see in her that are compatible with you? What hobbies, talents, challenges, background, future goals do you share? Or is it more of an ego thing? Now is a good time to examine your role in all if this. What it all meant and represented to you.
I'll give you an example from my past. There have been relationships I've hung onto for dear life, because of fear of abandonment, but most importantly - validation. That if I stayed in a relationship it would validate me, but if I lost it, I would be destroyed. Invalidated, a shell of a human with no value. In fact the other person may even value me, but it is me who doesn't value me, and assign meaning to the other person's behavior in reference to me, Not in reference of what I like about them, but in reference to what I hate about myself. In essence a very selfish place. So every time, I am dating now, I still find myself in that place a little bit. But only when I get lazy. When I don't challenge myself, when I still choose to after all this hard work, when I choose to co-depend. When I let anxiety and self hatred bubble up and "rejection" by a love interest is where I tend to hang it on. It's a cop out, a cowardice.
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Post by krolle on May 26, 2021 4:23:21 GMT
I'd throw my two cents in if I had much to add to the discussion. But the others have given you some good quality input I would struggle to improve on and I agree with everything they have said so far.
The only thing I will add is that I wouldn't say it sounds like full on BPD. More like FA flip flopping as highlighted by others on this thread.Though I'm not qualified to make a diagnosis so take my opinion with a pinch of salt.
I do have significant experience with a couple of my former partners who were actually confirmed BPD in a clinical setting, and some who never got a diagnosis but very likely were. And the behaviour was much more extreme than what you are describing. Threats of violence, slander campaigns, going from needing to call you 18 times in an hour if they're triggered to only responding with "F**k Off" or "I hate you and never want to speak to you again" when you are in the devaluation phase, screaming, crying, aggressive outbursts, stalking behavours etc.
As Annie said all of us have at least some traits of certain personality disorders. I think you are far better pursuing the advice the other guys in here have given you about self reflecting on why this unhealthy dynamic is so appealing to you.
But I do understand your desire to work out what happened with her. It's almost like things hurt more because you can't understand the reason someone acted that way. If your doing it to learn from the experience rather than win her back or change her then I think there is some utility to understanding the process. Though try not to get bogged down in it.
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Post by tnr9 on May 26, 2021 15:17:47 GMT
Ok...so I am back...one thing that keeps coming up over and over again in the FA forum is the surprise, disappointment and hurt from the person on the receiving end of a sudden break up. I have been there since I tend to chose FA men who lean avoidant. It would be ideal if the person who is an unaware FA would bring the other person into the internal doubts he/she is wrestling with...but again....a distrust of others and self plus a hate of conflict and a nervous system that is haywire prevents that. Put another way.....you being a nice guy was not the reason she broke up with you.....she broke up with you because of her own internal stuff. Now, as to the “way” she broke up with you and the harsh things she said...there are a lot of people who are walking around in adult bodies but who are stuck with “younger” ways of dealing with stress/nervous system arousal/doubt/fear/conflict. I am not saying it is right...but again...trauma leaves someone with very limited tools of how to handle life...which is why drug use, alcohol abuse, gaming addiction, tv addiction etc...basically anything that allows an FA to escape the pain...is prevalent. It takes a trauma based therapist to really help....however, that requires a desire to change. And change equals facing the pain all anew. I am personally having to go through that now with my somatic experiencing therapist and there is sooooo much resistance in me. My body is literally divided....my right side is open, my left side is closed (this thread is not about me so if you are interested in learning more...pm me). Imagine for a moment all the signals she is internally having to process on an hourly basis. As to her “ex”.....they are likely stuck in a push/pull dynamic where she doesn’t get a chance to really consider if he is truly a good match because her internal nervous system is likely always on with him. And it is incredibly common for someone with an FA attachment to confuse nervous system arousal with love. ...because it literally feels like love...but with doubt and fear....and that is exactly what was experienced as a child...so it is familiar. It may not have the same trauma aspect...but the fear of engulfment and abandonment is there.
Hopefully this gives you a glimpse of things....but as Annie said....it is always good to look at your own attachment....and to consider what it was that attracted you to this woman so that you can see if there is anything that you may want to work on.
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