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Post by epistasis on Oct 29, 2017 4:26:53 GMT
My ex and I broke up one year ago. I think he was mostly FA, but with some DA too. We broke up because he said we fought too much. It was one of those cases where nothing ever resolved because he stonewalled. We decided to remain close friends after that, but I quickly realized that my feelings for him were not going away. Seven months ago we went out for dinner to celebrate his new job. He got a job a few states away, but we both lived in Atlanta at the time. I had not planned to tell him how I still felt, but I realized in the middle of dinner that I needed to bring it up before he left. After we ate, he walked me to my car. I told him in a very hesitant way that friendship with him is not enough for me. I told him that I still have feelings for him and asked if we would ever see each other again after he moved. He seemed distressed almost immediately.  He raised his voice, stopped making eye contact, and said he had let me go when he broke up with me. He then said that he may come back to Atlanta from time to time for meetings and that he would let me know when. I asked him if he ever felt we had a special connection because I felt we always had. He said, “yes, because we are both weird people.” And he mentioned that he doesn't think he's cut out for marriage. We talked for about twenty more minutes, with me crying unfortunately. He gave me a hug and told me that I’m stronger than I think I am and walked to his car. He told me to let him know when I made it home. I sat in my car and did something so stupid. I called him ten minutes later to ask if he was 100% sure he didn’t want a relationship with me again. He sat in silence for a bit and eventually answered no because he is happy the way he is right now. I cried a little more and through my tears I told him that I wish him the best with his new job. He was irritated with me for wishing him well with his new job because he said that I already told him that at dinner. I ended the phone conversation and have not contacted him since. I have so many regrets about this. I’m mad at myself for crying. I’m even more mad at myself for calling him! That is just not like me. I called because I realized that I needed a direct yes or no answer from him about our future, and I had never asked directly before. But still, I’m angry with myself for not approaching this differently. Like I said, I have remained no contact for seven months now. It was a tough night because I realized we may never see each other again. So did I make a total fool out of myself? It is always advised to remain stoic when approaching these topics with an ex, and I blew it. I worry he looks back on that and thinks of me in a negative light now. |
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Post by serene13 on Oct 29, 2017 5:00:58 GMT
Girl - don't be so hard on yourself! I don't believe there are any mistakes. You did what you felt was right for you at the time. It really was a normal question. Please don't second guess yourself, though I do know how easy it is to do when you're in that position. He's the one with the problem. The only problem you really have is in getting over him  |
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Post by 100waters on Oct 29, 2017 13:01:23 GMT
It does not sound like wrong the response to me. You were yourself and had your own emotions and he couldn't handle them. It sounds like he was angry not at your repeating your comment about wishing him well, but at being reminded you are cutting him off and there is something wrong w him. If anything the problem is that you doubt yourself and your reactions, which he probably reads as needy and wanting validation in a way that he can't give.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2017 14:11:44 GMT
My ex and I broke up one year ago. I think he was mostly FA, but with some DA too. We broke up because he said we fought too much. It was one of those cases where nothing ever resolved because he stonewalled. We decided to remain close friends after that, but I quickly realized that my feelings for him were not going away. Seven months ago we went out for dinner to celebrate his new job. He got a job a few states away, but we both lived in Atlanta at the time. I had not planned to tell him how I still felt, but I realized in the middle of dinner that I needed to bring it up before he left. After we ate, he walked me to my car. I told him in a very hesitant way that friendship with him is not enough for me. I told him that I still have feelings for him and asked if we would ever see each other again after he moved. He seemed distressed almost immediately. He raised his voice, stopped making eye contact, and said he had let me go when he broke up with me. He then said that he may come back to Atlanta from time to time for meetings and that he would let me know when. I asked him if he ever felt we had a special connection because I felt we always had. He said, “yes, because we are both weird people.” And he mentioned that he doesn't think he's cut out for marriage. We talked for about twenty more minutes, with me crying unfortunately. He gave me a hug and told me that I’m stronger than I think I am and walked to his car. He told me to let him know when I made it home. I sat in my car and did something so stupid. I called him ten minutes later to ask if he was 100% sure he didn’t want a relationship with me again. He sat in silence for a bit and eventually answered no because he is happy the way he is right now. I cried a little more and through my tears I told him that I wish him the best with his new job. He was irritated with me for wishing him well with his new job because he said that I already told him that at dinner. I ended the phone conversation and have not contacted him since. I have so many regrets about this. I’m mad at myself for crying. I’m even more mad at myself for calling him! That is just not like me. I called because I realized that I needed a direct yes or no answer from him about our future, and I had never asked directly before. But still, I’m angry with myself for not approaching this differently. Like I said, I have remained no contact for seven months now. It was a tough night because I realized we may never see each other again. So did I make a total fool out of myself? It is always advised to remain stoic when approaching these topics with an ex, and I blew it. I worry he looks back on that and thinks of me in a negative light now. The sad thing about this is that you feel embarrassed and as though it's your problem - as if your feelings are not relevant and acceptable whilst his distancing stonewalling is just fine. This seems to be a pattern in peoples stories here - that the person involved with the DA begins to feel that they are wrong, that something is up with them and that they are causing the behaviour in their partners. It's a pattern that's really destructive to self esteem - I hope life is improving for you now and that someday you will be able to see yourself as strong and brave for having been vulnerable. Please don't apologise to us or yourself. |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 29, 2017 16:54:38 GMT
I can totally understand how you feel embarrassed and now worried about how he will view you. I have done and felt the same, but you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed or sorry about! As others have wisely stated, you were being yourself and stating how you feel. You did nothing wrong and you definitely did not make a total fool out of yourself.
He actually is the one who should have apologized for getting irritated with you on wishing him well! This is common though as you have probably experienced and what a lot of us have experienced; our feelings to the DA do not matter.
But you know what, your feelings matter here! Sending you a big hug, take some deep breathes-- we are here for you.
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Post by epistasis on Oct 29, 2017 23:13:25 GMT
azgirl: Thank you very much! Reading that helped me feel better. I appreciate your kind words.
100waters: That might be why he was angry. I would prefer that be the reason why he was angry. I was thinking about your comment, and I also remembered that he used to get irritated with people who would talk to him for too long, so I worry that may have been another option as to why he was annoyed with me. He still had a few things to get done that night, so he may have seen me as keeping him from completing his tasks.
ocarina: I tend to blame myself for everything that went wrong with my relationship with him. I wasn't perfect, but I can't think of anything I did that was enough for him to act the way he did. He did admit that he is hard to get along with at one point. I hope I can feel proud of being vulnerable one day too - Thank you.
kristyrose: Well thank you very much. I have not heard from him since it happened, so I've always wondered how he felt about his reaction. Our mutual friends were shocked when I explained what happened. Maybe it wasn't the most convenient time for me to bring the topic up, but it was my last chance to do it in person. During the entire year after the breakup while remaining close friends, I never once brought up old emotions over our relationship. I kept things pretty light. I thought since enough time had passed that he wouldn't be instantly repelled by the conversation. He just couldn't handle any relationship talk. I do feel bad if I made him feel anxious. He mentioned many times over the years that he is stubborn and that it's a common trait in his family. However, his parents and siblings are all happily married. I feel like he sends signals that I either misinterpret, or he sends signals and then backs out. I've never had this hard of a time judging how a man feels for me. I am usually spot on. I remember he told me that out of all of his girlfriends, I was the one who liked him the most and was most patient. He also used to tell me I was a very caring person, so I hope he looks back on this and remembers me in that way. I don't want to be remembered as a girl from his past who was too emotional. I am mostly secure, but I do have some anxious and avoidant tendencies that I am working on. Of course I did not know what avoidant attachment was until a week after he moved away. I wish I had known earlier.
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Post by 100waters on Oct 30, 2017 0:35:09 GMT
epistasis -
i can give you some insight. i am probably a mildly to moderately FA myself, but am in the middle of a divorce after 6 years of marriage and have had 2 other long term relationships about that long. the first was with a DA who was an academic - very abstract person unaware of her feelings. the last two are much more anxious-avoidant and i shut down around both of them. my girlfriend would pound on my chest sometimes and say "let me in". i had a very traumatic break-up with her where it would be on-gain off-again, sometimes over the period of 15 minutes. i have been very shut down with my wife for 2-3 years. i have loved all three of them, although admittedly at times when i would do things for them and things were not going well i might resent doing it, but would keep it to myself. my first wife decided to have a secret affair on me (the DA one) and had no intention of getting divorced. she saw me as a lifelong partner, i always had a high admiration for her, whereas i did not to the same degree of my two last relationships. i did love them and care about them however, but not in fully healthy way due to not liking some of their values and their difficulties with anger. despite this i have always responded when they are in distress. i can tell you that in my marriage i became highly avoidant and lost attraction for my wife. however, i strongly believe she is incapable of meaningful communication and I essentially went unheard for 5+ years. she is just not very psychological. we went to counseling 4 times and she just would not grasp the issues due to her own narcissistic traits. i can tell you when we first started dating she would have panic attacks and would ask me to come over to console her. my ex-gf never got remarried or had kids despite being on the market for 8+ years and has gotten involved in a cult-like activity that to me embodies poor boundaries and would bother many people. i highlight these as its important to understand the dysfunctions were all mutual as on this board there is a propensity to polarize types into severe dysfunction and vilify DA and FA without taking stock that anxiously attached individuals also bring a lot of dysfunction to the relationship. my parents have a very good marriage of 50+ years and my mother is definitely abstract, unemotional, and non-maternal in certain ways and my father is very anxious and seeks approval in relationships. they work well, so it is not always pathological.
the reason i give you this background is that i started dating an old friend who i have determined is on the DA end of the spectrum of FA - maybe better described as a Wave with Island traits by Dr. Tatkin's model. I notice that when I talk to my future ex-wife I quickly get irritated by her. whereas i had a very tumultuous relationship with my long-term friend who in turn gets irritated with me if i get needy. so the situation is parallel. throughout our dating relationship she had one foot out the door, would disappear for a few days, and has very firm boundaries, yet also seems needy but in a hidden way. a friend of mine thinks she was like this due with me being in a middle of a divorce, but it feels like attachment issues to me as she has a very engulfing mother that she does not like and a very negating family. so - to the original question - the irritation. i get irritated with my wife (i have started closely tracking my emotions during this) because in an interaction i always feel that she is looking for me validate her in a fundamental and constant manner. she wants me to treat her in a certain way for her self esteem, so it feels controlling. she has aspects of herself that i don't fully respect that have to do with her values (she can be money focused and focused on sensational aspects of pop culture), her disposition to being aggressive (constantly honking her horn and getting into disagreements), and her being overwhelmingly anxious and overprotective. i find myself causing the same reaction from this friend of mine as she can be cold and invalidating (lord knows why i am pursuing this) and i find myself questioning if i am going to earn her approval/respect, even though at times she idealizes me. so you can see these have to do with underlying self-esteem issues. it's important to realize that is the function of the attachment process - to accumulate self-esteem, a sense of self-identity, recognition of ones own emotions, internalizing your parents, and learning to manage your distress and emotions. that is what a mother does for a child and when there is a mismatch in the dynamic repeatedly in childhood, one ends up with these kind of issues, still seeking to have those needs filled. so based on what you have described, I am going to correct myself and say that your boyfriend is probably annoyed that you are bothering him with questions that are your own - are you good enough for him, for yourself. plus he probably got the subtext that you are cutting him off... are you deserving of your mother's attention and love. that's what attachment is - what else is going to draw you to close relation to your mother but to establish your value and lovability? so, in his mind you are probably violating his boundaries and asking him to manage your own insecurities. what he does not realize is that his strong boundaries are there to manage his own fears and outside threats to his self-esteem, which he has had to construct himself on a poor inner scaffolding. he wants to be admired, but the more he gets that by someone who admires themselves the more likely the relationship will work since he doesn't have to address what feels like an inappropriate need. elements of this remain hard to understand, but i think power dynamics are inherent in social groups and are how people determine who is the most reproductively fit, thus it is central to a romantic bond. this is not a spiritual, but a biological and cultural view and one that feels most accurate to me given i work in mental health.
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Post by epistasis on Oct 30, 2017 23:11:49 GMT
I had to read this a few times, but it is starting to make a lot of sense. He probably did feel I was violating his boundaries, which I was not purposely doing, but he has a lot of boundaries that make it really hard to establish a healthy connection. He does have very low self esteem. However, he is smart, successful, and a handsome guy. He is always very laid back and seemed to lack emotion, but there was a time when a friend of his was poking fun at an old picture of him, and my ex actually began to yell and lose his temper. It was completely out of the ordinary, but now I realize how sensitive he is to criticism, which probably results from low self esteem. I know my anxious issues are a result of my childhood. My ex seems to have a very close family, but I know he mentioned that he had two girlfriends in the past who were not always so nice to him. He said one was a "bad girl" and the other would put him down when he brought up career aspirations. And he said another girl he dated in college supposedly only dated him to get close to his friend. In fact, he regularly brought up when he thought somebody in his life had intentions to manipulate him. Also, the girl he dated right before me seemed to be very sweet, but he said she always left him out during social events with her friends and it would cause a lot of fights between them. He must have been really hurt in the past. I remember he mentioned that he doesn't like to put a lot of effort into relationships, so maybe that is why. He also seemed really jealous when I met his best friend for the first time. His best friend is a lot like my brother, so we got along very well, but my ex seemed very irritated. I remember when we first got together, there were a few times when he was being really moody and withdrawn. Instead of asking him what was wrong and getting upset, I started to clean my apartment and do my own thing. It didn't take too long for him to realize that I was pulling away, because he began to change his mood and be very nice or compliment me for no reason. I do believe there was part of him that knew I was cutting him off like you brought to my attention. But with him, would the thought of being cut off really bother him? I feel like if he didn't want a relationship, then why would he care if we ever talked again? |
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Post by 100waters on Oct 31, 2017 6:38:36 GMT
Regarding the last comment... He may want to cut of the relationship, but he doesn't want it done to him and he must have some sort of bond he wants to maintain with you...
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Post by epistasis on Oct 31, 2017 20:11:43 GMT
Regarding the last comment... He may want to cut of the relationship, but he doesn't want it done to him and he must have some sort of bond he wants to maintain with you... That may certainly be the case. In fact, it's the only explanation that makes sense. I deactivated my social media because I feel like it's best that he doesn't know about my life now. I am frustrated that he mentioned that he probably doesn't want marriage or children because he never mentioned that before or while we dated. However, he said that maybe a long distance relationship would work better for him the last night I saw him. He didn't make it clear if he wanted a LDR with me, or if he meant with somebody else in the future. If he wanted a relationship with me, then technically nothing should be holding him back since LDRs are apparently something he would be willing to pursue. Interestingly enough, right after he found out he was moving across country, I found out that I might be moving to a city halfway between Atlanta and where he moved to. He said, "Oh wow. That is perfect!" I don't know if he meant it was perfect in that it is close driving distance from his new city, or that it's perfect because it's only seven hours from my home in Atlanta where my family is. Either way, it has been seven months since we last spoke and I have not heard from him, so I am probably not on his radar. I heard his new job was not going as expected from a mutual friend, but I did not ask for details in fear that if I know any more about his life that I will set myself back. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 7, 2017 3:52:05 GMT
Be kind to yourself. You weren't acting foolish-- you were being human. It's human and natural (though perhaps not wise) to keep wanting to try again, so you gave it one last shot. There is no shame in that. I know, easier said than believed-- I have done my own share of such things, and not without regret. But it is just a sign of our human-ness.
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Post by epistasis on Nov 7, 2017 22:13:05 GMT
Be kind to yourself. You weren't acting foolish-- you were being human. It's human and natural (though perhaps not wise) to keep wanting to try again, so you gave it one last shot. There is no shame in that. I know, easier said than believed-- I have done my own share of such things, and not without regret. But it is just a sign of our human-ness. Well thank you very much for that. I was feeling a lot of shame over the situation. I felt like I was reinforcing that I'm not a good fit for him because I have emotions. I hope he will look back on the situation and realize how much I cared, but who knows. It's not under my control unfortunately. |
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He raised his voice, stopped making eye contact, and said he had let me go when he broke up with me. He then said that he may come back to Atlanta from time to time for meetings and that he would let me know when. 
