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Post by angie0625 on Aug 4, 2021 20:14:07 GMT
I’m new to learning about attachment styles. I see conflicting stories of yes they come back or no, they never do. Here’s my situation. I’ll try to make it brief: My FA ex was abandoned by his mom in the 4th grade. He has lots of trust issues. My ex and I started dating in May. Everything was amazing. Then on July 15th he got mad at me, and 2 of his friends. He claimed he doesn’t trust us anymore and wrote all of us off. I didn’t even do anything. Me being AP, I made the mistake of begging and pleading. He completely ignored me for well over a week. Then about a week after the break up, he unfriended me on Snapchat, which was our only social media we use. So I phone texted to him for another week with little to no response. When he did respond it was “there’s nothing between us.” “It’s over.” “Leave me alone”. Looking back, I shouldn’t have done any of this but I’m so heartbroken over this. We were so close. I was his first for everything, even opening up about his past. I’m the first to know it all. I’m concerned though that he has completely wrote off all of his friends too and he’s also shut me out. He was involved in a sport that I worked at, and he quit that too now, probably so he doesn’t have to see me. So he has gone in full shut down mode. Do FA’s tend to come back after this deactivation? Im working toward being more secure. Im on day 5 of no contact which is what he wanted anyways so I don’t know how effective that will be. Anyone have thoughts on an FA coming back after something like this? Thanks!
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Post by blacksnow2 on Aug 4, 2021 20:55:44 GMT
Short answer: yes.
Slightly longer answer: only if there was a hint of an authentic connection. And this is a bit of a warning, but AP's tend to think that anxious 'connection' is authentic when it's not. So be careful.
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Post by angie0625 on Aug 4, 2021 21:02:58 GMT
Thank you for responding. Yes, it absolutely was authentic. He told me multiple times that he had never felt this way toward anyone. All of his family said they had never seen him this happy. We were real. I was so blindsided by him just dropping me without even talking to me about why he didn’t trust me all of a sudden. I worked so hard to earn that trust and would never break it. This heartbreak stings!
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Post by alexandra on Aug 4, 2021 21:32:36 GMT
I'd be very careful after what was only a two month relationship. People can usually let the attraction and excitement of the feelings in a new relationship temporarily override their attachment issues and anxieties / avoidance, and can keep their fears under control until the stakes get higher. This usually lasts for about as long as the honeymoon period and is fueled by the two partners not knowing each other that well or being a permanent thing yet, leaving lots of room to project all over each other and have a chemistry-filled fantasy aspect to the budding connection. When something like this happens, things have gotten real. The person was showing you only one part of themselves at the very beginning, but this is the full view. This is how he handles stress and conflict, and how he'll continue to handle it. This is not healthy, as much as it hurts. AP tend to want to blame themselves and find the magic formula to fix everything and reconnect like before. It's hard to accept that the early dynamic can't last indefinitely or that it wasn't the full picture. There's complicated reasons AP feel this way and act out on their fear of abandonment, feeling like without reconnection it will be hard to even survive. Those are usually related to earlier relationships with inconsistent family members and adult caregivers for whom you did need to stay attached for survival. It isn't intuitive, but if you really want to become more secure and introspect, understanding where those triggered anxious patterns you experience are surfacing from is a place to start. You're right that you didn't do anything to cause this! FAs don't trust themselves or others. AP don't trust themselves, and so assume they are to blame for another's attachment style-related distrust, because then they can convince themselves they can find some way to control the other person's reactions. If it's out of your hands because it's not your fault, then you need to accept and process it, which does not turn off all that reconnection anxiety you feel right now. It's very uncomfortable, and on the surface seems easier to try to force a reconnection, or hope for one if you're patient. If you wait around to reconnect, and he does come back, you show his behavior is acceptable to you and it repeats. You end up on a roller coaster cycle of high highs and worse lows, with the lows getting longer every time. It's how the triggered FA and AP dynamic works. So if he's acting this way after only 2 months, stonewalling, pushing you away, refusing to communicate maturely, it'll just be more of this over and over. Is that what you want a relationship to look like for yourself? I've waited and reconnected and wasted my time in an off and on FA/AP cycle, and it HURTS. My time was far better spent focusing on myself and my own issues and learning to process emotions fully, communicate better, and trying to heal my own past so that I started choosing healthy partners and not getting stuck in these horrible toxic situations. Again, I know it doesn't seem intuitive right now, and you believe the answers you're looking for are how do I get him back? Will he come back? It took me an embarrassingly long time to learn that, if you really want to feel better and get more secure, you need to ask completely different questions. And it's okay if it's a hard breakup with someone you had a real connection with but was full of attachment issues that brings you to asking yourself different questions. That's how most of us got to this forum. If you are serious about wanting to get more secure, continue to stay out of contact with him for a while. When you are less triggered and your anxiety subsides a bit, start thinking about what's really bothering you. Examining family dynamics, fear of abandonment, and taking a look at this link are some good places to start: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2372/overcoupling-stress-responseThen, anne12 's thread with exercises for AP is more good food for thought: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1072/healing-anxious-ambivalent-attatchment-tricksThe more anxious-leaning an FA is, the more likely they will be to want to reconnect eventually. The more avoidant-leaning, the less likely, or the shorter and less effort the connections. But the goal is to internalize that you deserve more, you deserve a healthy relationship that's about connection not issues, so that if they do come back, you have very healthy boundaries and low fear and are in a good, secure place from which to make decisions. And if they don't come back, you're okay moving forward and being open to healthier connections that come your way.
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 4, 2021 23:50:26 GMT
Thank you for responding. Yes, it absolutely was authentic. He told me multiple times that he had never felt this way toward anyone. All of his family said they had never seen him this happy. We were real. I was so blindsided by him just dropping me without even talking to me about why he didn’t trust me all of a sudden. I worked so hard to earn that trust and would never break it. This heartbreak stings! FA, like any avoidants, do come back. But to have them commit to you again, put it this way, its easier to turn clay into gold. Avoidants tell you things you want to hear. My avoidant ex told me I'm it. I'm the one she's going to spend the rest of her life with. Have a name for our future daughter. Going to move in together. Actually MET my parents in my country......They can talk the talk but look at their actions. They often don't match. What you've mentioned above is avoidant 101. He will come back and lets try this - deny him sex. You'll probably not hear from him ever again.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 5, 2021 14:07:11 GMT
Thank you for responding. Yes, it absolutely was authentic. He told me multiple times that he had never felt this way toward anyone. All of his family said they had never seen him this happy. We were real. I was so blindsided by him just dropping me without even talking to me about why he didn’t trust me all of a sudden. I worked so hard to earn that trust and would never break it. This heartbreak stings! I understand and sympathize….I went through a breakup that “caught me by surprise” but after a period of trying to understand him….I realized that there were little hints…he was a bit more reserved when we saw each other, he focused a lot more on distractions…such as TV watching and drinking….I just chose to ignore those subtle signs and held fast to the way we were when we first began dating. I also had to look at why it bothered me so much and what I concluded was it was a one sided breakup….he had made his decision without providing me with any heads up….and that is how insecure relationships tend to be. Because of fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment…along with being unable to truly process the emotions that arise from that fear….communication becomes broken. Even if he comes back…he has established a pattern of one sided breakups and I don’t think that is what you want long term.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 5, 2021 17:07:36 GMT
I also had to look at why it bothered me so much and what I concluded was it was a one sided breakup….he had made his decision without proving me with any heads up….and that is how insecure relationships tend to be. Because of fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment…along with being unable to truly process the emotions that arise from that fear….communication becomes broken. Even if he comes back…he has established a pattern of one sided breakups and I don’t think that is what you want long term. Yes, spot on. I'd been through this several times with insecurely attached partners, and it always bothered me as well and it took a long time to put my finger on the real issue (since my default was to blame myself). While anyone can validly exit a relationship whenever they want for any reason, making the decision totally on your own without any warning isn't generally normal or healthy unless you're in an extremely toxic situation that's a threat to your safety (though it can be argued that someone with their nervous system triggered in all their attachment fears may believe this is what's going on and mistakenly perceive their survival is threatened due to that over and under-coupling link I'd shared in my last post, another issue someone can only fix within themselves). It's most often disrespectful, though, and is a mixture of bad communication, bad connection to self, and foundational distrust of everyone involved. That distrust can be: "I distrust I can handle voicing my own feelings and needs because they may not get instantly met or understood and I can't deal with conflict. I can't even communicate or express what I need because I'm disconnected to myself and don't understand what's wrong, but since something is, I should just bail because discussing it will be painful or useless. I distrust my partner can hear me or understand or has the best intentions for me because every relationship is a power struggle and I need to stay on top and keep control." All of these are examples of reasons people can flip to a blindsiding breakup that have nothing to do with the partner or being a team working together on the relationship. People with these issues feel trapped in relationships just because that is their default in regards to their attachment issues and likely don't actually have any idea why. And they are not ready to show up as solid committed partners. Bottom line: if he comes back without having done a lot of therapeutic work on his own, which usually takes a couple of years+, the same issues and behaviors will repeat over and over. Using this time of pain and introspection to focus on you is the best way to prepare for whatever comes next.
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Post by krolle on Aug 5, 2021 18:51:36 GMT
I also had to look at why it bothered me so much and what I concluded was it was a one sided breakup….he had made his decision without proving me with any heads up….and that is how insecure relationships tend to be. Because of fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment…along with being unable to truly process the emotions that arise from that fear….communication becomes broken. Even if he comes back…he has established a pattern of one sided breakups and I don’t think that is what you want long term. Yes, spot on. I'd been through this several times with insecurely attached partners, and it always bothered me as well and it took a long time to put my finger on the real issue (since my default was to blame myself). While anyone can validly exit a relationship whenever they want for any reason, making the decision totally on your own without any warning isn't generally normal or healthy unless you're in an extremely toxic situation that's a threat to your safety (though it can be argued that someone with their nervous system triggered in all their attachment fears may believe this is what's going on and mistakenly perceive their survival is threatened due to that over and under-coupling link I'd shared in my last post, another issue someone can only fix within themselves). It's most often disrespectful, though, and is a mixture of bad communication, bad connection to self, and foundational distrust of everyone involved. That distrust can be: "I distrust I can handle voicing my own feelings and needs because they may not get instantly met or understood and I can't deal with conflict. I can't even communicate or express what I need because I'm disconnected to myself and don't understand what's wrong, but since something is, I should just bail because discussing it will be painful or useless. I distrust my partner can hear me or understand or has the best intentions for me because every relationship is a power struggle and I need to stay on top and keep control." All of these are examples of reasons people can flip to a blindsiding breakup that have nothing to do with the partner or being a team working together on the relationship. People with these issues feel trapped in relationships just because that is their default in regards to their attachment issues and likely don't actually have any idea why. And they are not ready to show up as solid committed partners. Bottom line: if he comes back without having done a lot of therapeutic work on his own, which usually takes a couple of years+, the same issues and behaviors will repeat over and over. Using this time of pain and introspection to focus on you is the best way to prepare for whatever comes next. ....Well, I can't really expand on that lol. It's like she can read my mind. The bit you put in quotation marks Alexandra was literally my internal dialogue in many of my relationships. almost word for word. But yeah in short, I agree. He will likely come back if true FA. Though without the work/ insight it's unlikely to be a good thing for you. I agree,it was very likely nothing to do with being your fault, but out of morbid curiosity though, can you think of anything that triggered him to fall out with you and his friends in that moment? even something relatively innocuous to you.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 5, 2021 19:28:14 GMT
....Well, I can't really expand on that lol. It's like she can read my mind. If it makes you feel any better, krolle, that's because I was trying to really listen to my FA ex while we were still together! So partners often do have good intentions and difficult conversations don't have to be scary. HOWEVER. I was not able to hear him when I was unaware AP. When we tried again the second time, I was still AP but aware and moving towards secure, and it really made all the difference because it allowed me to depersonalize the issues enough to communicate and listen a lot better and more objectively. He wasn't saying quite what I wrote, because he was very reactive and muddled and unaware with no idea what was going on, but eventually that's where I got to with understanding it. But that's why the partners you choose is such a very important aspect to this (some people are capable of hearing you, some aren't, some can learn to be if they really want to), and why relationships tend to fail if at least one person is unaware of having insecure attachment issues (even if they don't know there's a word for them and they're called by that name), and what those issues even mean. But in my opinion, this is very hopeful for people working on their own attachment issues.
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Post by angie0625 on Aug 6, 2021 18:07:53 GMT
....Well, I can't really expand on that lol. It's like she can read my mind. If it makes you feel any better, krolle, that's because I was trying to really listen to my FA ex while we were still together! So partners often do have good intentions and difficult conversations don't have to be scary. HOWEVER. I was not able to hear him when I was unaware AP. When we tried again the second time, I was still AP but aware and moving towards secure, and it really made all the difference because it allowed me to depersonalize the issues enough to communicate and listen a lot better and more objectively. He wasn't saying quite what I wrote, because he was very reactive and muddled and unaware with no idea what was going on, but eventually that's where I got to with understanding it. But that's why the partners you choose is such a very important aspect to this (some people are capable of hearing you, some aren't, some can learn to be if they really want to), and why relationships tend to fail if at least one person is unaware of having insecure attachment issues (even if they don't know there's a word for them and they're called by that name), and what those issues even mean. But in my opinion, this is very hopeful for people working on their own attachment issues. So, we had a fight in late June where he lied to me and was hanging out with another girl. They were just friends but he lied about it. After catching him In that lie, he became incredibly reserved and didn’t trust me. This heightened my AP attachment. I felt like I had to talk to him more to keep him and I pushed him away looking back now. I regret doing that. He asked for space and I got clingier. Dumb. I know. Then he thought his friends and i were talking behind his back. I wasn’t. He didn’t care what I said and broke up with me.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 6, 2021 18:30:08 GMT
So, we had a fight in late June where he lied to me and was hanging out with another girl. They were just friends but he lied about it. After catching him In that lie, he became incredibly reserved and didn’t trust me. Trying to get this straight. You were dating only 6 weeks and he started lying to you, then blamed you and shut down when you called him out on it? So you agreed and blamed yourself too for doing something wrong, even though he was the one showing you he already can't be trusted? This isn't about you being stupid in any way, but it is about you knowing your own value and having healthy boundaries. Why do you think being treated that way by a potential boyfriend is acceptable? You need to be building trust and learning if you can trust each other in early dating before commitment, and he's already failed that test. Choosing a partner who has shown you can't trust them (and who can't have a mature conversation to do conflict resolution when discussing it) will cause you a lot of pain.
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Post by krolle on Aug 7, 2021 4:43:48 GMT
So, we had a fight in late June where he lied to me and was hanging out with another girl. They were just friends but he lied about it. After catching him In that lie, he became incredibly reserved and didn’t trust me. Trying to get this straight. You were dating only 6 weeks and he started lying to you, then blamed you and shut down when you called him out on it? So you agreed and blamed yourself too for doing something wrong, even though he was the one showing you he already can't be trusted? This isn't about you being stupid in any way, but it is about you knowing your own value and having healthy boundaries. Why do you think being treated that way by a potential boyfriend is acceptable? You need to be building trust and learning if you can trust each other in early dating before commitment, and he's already failed that test. Choosing a partner who has shown you can't trust them (and who can't have a mature conversation to do conflict resolution when discussing it) will cause you a lot of pain. I have done the same thing before. I hope that doesn't make you guys think I'm a terrible person. I know its not going to be a popular thing to say. But I do understand his behaviour. And id like to explain it for your education. I don't know his relational history. But for me, I lie a lot in relationships as a learned fawning response mainly. I have recognised over the years that it's not healthy and have tried to be as honest as I can these days, even if it is risky to do so. But it took a lot of time and pain to realize that the lying caused a lot of problems. One thing you have to realize with some people is our perception of the world and people is completely hostile. Even our loved ones and friends are viewed as not to be trusted. In fact I personally approach most other humans that they cannot be trusted. This is particularly triggering when it comes to any sign of being controlled in any way. It's a trauma response based in fear. I also have been guilty of lies of ommision, and being vague about myself, hiding information etc. The goal is to prevent control and by extension prevent vulnerability. To reduce the potential leverage another person has to manipulate and control me. For example, Too many times have I been punished for having a female friend by jealous insecure partners. I just learned after a while it was better to lie about meeting up with them than be punished, or told something like "if you stay friends with her I will hurt you/ it's over between us" and these are strictly platonic friendships. They just happen to be the opposite sex. And similarly, if I'm caught in my lie and chastised, I will withdraw and view the person with extreme mistrust from then on. With reconciliation being a difficult thing to approach. But I can understand it feels crap to be lied to. And agree it's not a healthy coping strategy. I'm just trying to highlight the fact the lies and cover ups of this nature, at least for me, are rarely if ever, used for 'nefarious' purposes. More so as a defence again our perception of others as manipulators. It's like a smoke screen to stop you getting to use knowledge as power. And relationships are viewed as a power game to us. One we cannot afford to lose. But what happens is that the strategy become second nature. So when we are with a partner who is actually a decent person we still apply the same strategy of lies and deception. which is unfortunate for you, your essentially being tarred with the same brush as the people in our past who hurt us, because it's better to be safe than sorry. The root cause of the problem being a deep mistrust of others. it's a very lonely way to live. And results in a lot of us isolating ourselves for long periods of time.
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Post by krolle on Aug 7, 2021 4:57:53 GMT
While I'm on the subject, the same can be said for the withdrawal of affection/sex that can confuse a lot of people when it suddenly happens.
If theres even a vague hint of control or engulfment, sex and affection are withdrawn, as they can be used as leverage. We cannot expose our vulnerabilities if there's a threat detected.
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 7, 2021 11:04:10 GMT
Thank you krolle for filling in the gaps so to speak. I recognize a bit of that in B actually and it makes sense because his dad was in the military and used a belt very liberally on him so trust was definitely an issue.
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Post by krolle on Aug 8, 2021 13:45:13 GMT
Thank you krolle for filling in the gaps so to speak. I recognize a bit of that in B actually and it makes sense because his dad was in the military and used a belt very liberally on him so trust was definitely an issue. You're welcome tnr9. I'm glad it helped you recognise a behavioural pattern. I hope it helped other too who are confused. Though I will say that I was hit a lot as a child as a disciplinary action too, and it never bothered me. At least for me personally, the physical stuff left no trauma or trust issues. Because the pain and damage was very short lived. All my trust issues are more related to psychological manipulation. I have little fear of a 250lb guy punching me in the face for example (though of course I'd prefer to avoid it). But I might feel terror at the thought of my 98lb girlfriend sewing a web of lies and deciept to get me in trouble with the police, or perhaps faking a pregnancy etc. My examples are gender specific. But only by virtue of the fact that I'm a heterosexual male. So my experience of relationship manipulation mostly comes from women. I'm sure men can be equally calculating so I'm not judging. I just don't experience it from that side.
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