Help with possible FA

Hi there…it sounds like the 2 of you have been in a dance of your anxiety driving your behavior and her avoidance driving hers. I know you would really like to understand her through the lens of attachment….but, the labeling isn’t really key because knowing if she is FA or DA doesn’t change the dynamic between the 2 of you. The pulling back is her way of regaining control when she she feels overwhelmed….just as getting closer is yours when you feel anxious about being abandoned. Right now, I suspect your fear is in overdrive…which is why you are wanting to know if she will come back or not. The best thing you can do is to honor her need for space, but not read too much into things (easier said then done I know when you have your spider senses on high alert for anything that could point to her leaving you). I would encourage you to read the posts in the Anxious Preoccupied section to gain more insight into your behaviors. Because, although it feels really icky to not know whether your partner is or is not coming back, you cannot learn enough on these boards to get a different outcome from her.

I know exactly what you are going through….and it is very astute of you to recognize that you never received the tools to help you.  Give yourself a lot of grace right now.  I too was in therapy for a long time without making a ton of progress…but recently I started with a therapist who specializes in somatic experiencing and it has been a great form of therapy for me.  Somatic experiencing therapists are trained in working through trauma that is stored in the body.  In the process of connecting to my body and to the trauma…I was able to discover a lot of things about myself and work through some very painful memories from my past.  The most important thing I learned is where I “end” and another person “begins”…which has really helped me to define boundaries.  

Another thing I would say. But Like to state that this is just a theory on my part. There is a possibility in my opinion that you actually being depressed and struggling with your mental health actually made her feel 'more' comfortable. And as you "Pseudo recovered" less so.

I know this sounds awful to "prefer" your loved one to be in a state of neediness. But it is fairly well documented phenomena of co-dependance. And be aware that if that was indeed going on, it was almost entirely subconscious on her part.

People are attracted to familiar dynamics, and If she was say ,expected to fix or care for a damaged parent or sibling growing up, she would likely be drawn to that as an adult, unless she recognised and worked on it.

Helping someone else in need is also a way for many of us who feel deep down, that we are not good enough to be loved, to earn love. I have been in this dynamic quiet often.

This really an interesting theory.  Thanks for sharing it.  

Been a while since I posted here, just came back to read and see if I could help with my reading on such things over a 2 year period, and talking to quite a few F-As. Just a bit about me, so variables are out of the road. I test as over 86% secure attachment. Absolute classic F-A you described here imao, I dated a girl about 3 years ago that did this, chased me profusely through mutual friends, actually it's how we met, and they specifically set up New years eves for us to meet up over a couple of years tbh. I wasn't interested due to emotional unavailability myself. anyhow, we finally dated, for about 2.5-3 months. And she out of nowhere pulled away. She had 2 kids, ex. husband was abusive (in fact putting 2 and 2 together, he did everything he could I think when he knew she was dating someone to be difficult around the kids, time spent with them - ZERO, on top of other narcissist tendency abuse, verbal, passive aggressive behaviour etc), then her father I found out was the abuser (potential NPD, but assumed narcissist tendency) verbally and physically, punishing the kids for not performing at sports/academically upto his lofty standards, so basically 1st or bust! A total encroachment on boundaries and very bad enmeshment trauma patterning, ie "you're responsible for the way I feel, and I'm responsible for the way you feel!" (and obviously when secure, you know you can upset someone, but there are boundaries! both ways! and mindfulness). Anyhow she had an ovary out, on top of insomnia, aches and pains, constant head colds every 2 weeks etc, and used these as excuses to distance! Back to it, and so in effect she was texting me upto 20 times per day, sending sexy pics etc,cooking things for me etc, almost "love bombing" in a way, and this is where this all gets very interesting, and all linked to Complex PTSD and a spectrum of attachment and personality disorders. It was almost like a movie where you meet a "soulmate". Her "fake for public consumption persona" was sexual, cheeky, highly feminine, she loved to dance, and was seemingly footloose and fancy free. But after week 2, there were "red flags", there was low self esteem with comments such as "You're too good for me I don't know why you're with me", her mother even chimed in with "Do you really think this guy will accept you?" (lovely parental commentary, haven't even met her!). Then the call around 2 months crying telling me she "thought there was something wrong with her, she'd seen a psychologist and they just said to her "you're just too nice a person" - interesting commentary (this is the 4F trauma "fawn" response, she was "people pleasing" me up front and "mirroring" what she thought I would like, a Fearful-Avoidant can do this, and it's linked to narcissistic abuse patterning, an NPD, BPD also do this, also on the spectrum covert narcissism, she never played "victim" though). Anyway I just said neutrally, "that if there was something she was coping with, there was not much I could do about it, listen and support as good as I can, and that she was the only one at the end of the day that could really tackle what was going on", I feel I framed it up at the time in retrospect a little unempathic tbh. So then the "pullback" in 2 weeks after, she professed she loved me, never met anyone like me, and was talking about marriage and a house etc, just all "fantasy" really. She pulled back based on "health issues" (all psychosomatic in nature in retrospect, I think even her ovary issues are from abuse from young tbh, also had gastrointestinal hernia etc all linked to stress! Go figure, I think this is the problem in society overall now I look at it, but a convo for another day), week later "I really miss you!". This then led to a push-pull for around 5 months till later in the year, where she assured me she was "coming back" after she dealt with her immediate health concerns etc. It was all a tool for what I now understand as "intermittent reinforcement", I found out on the grapevine via mutual friends she was getting slaughtered via alcohol, week in week out, full blown almost alcoholism! So much for "working on herself". I'd never EVER seen this behaviour before in my life, I was 40 at the time. Anyhow I read up, and I'll give some info here that may help, even looking into yourself. I found Pete Walker and his book "Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving" in that book, describing the 4F trauma/stress responses of the nervous system, I was mind blown, I even actually realised my own behaviour at times in my late teens upto mid 20s from my life experiences were tied to this patterning he described. Myself having a slight "fight" response and Type A personality traits, and some "avoidant coping mechanisms" myself, totally separate to attachment. I would also recommend listening to Richard Grannon, and also "some" Sam Vaknin, who's explanations on how a narcissist/psychopath thinks and also how NPD and BPD naturally attract and everything on this spectrum is mindblowing! It's literal "stockholm syndrome" in some cases!

Also, not to tell you, who you are, but I would recommend heading over to Thais Gibson, her Personal Development School" website, you can do a free attachment test. There are others as well, I've cross checked myself at Dianne Poole Heller, and another I can't remember now sadly . Also other people to read up on/listen too that maybe helpful is Gabor Mate, and Bessel Van Der Kolk. Terms such as Polyvagal theory, and hyperarousal/hypoarousal states linked to "window of tolerance" linked to the 4F trauma responses should allow you to understand not only yourself but what others actually go through behind their fake facade persona. 

In short, you can do one of two things. You can hang, put in insane effort from here, with little to no positive outcome. That's the kicker, but I feel, that if you wish to try and rekindle, Thais Gibson gives the best advice. There must be healthy boundaries set, both individuals must be working on themselves and admit to faults, and a plan is in place to sort the issues from both sides that potentially caused the break up! But you will have to give her time for her to recalibrate her anxiety and "overwhelm", and say that you would like to talk when she feels ready, and it could be weeks.....months from here if at all. Just be aware of that, will be hard as A-P as well I would imagine. Because the "intermittent reinforcement" even did a number on me back in a day, as I say, first time I'd seen the behaviour, hidden by "health issues" hence my shades of grey thinking actually got in my road and kindness, not realising what was truly going on.

Also in the mix here, is masculine and feminine baseline attraction, and in terms of this I would point you towards Corey Wayne. BUT his "no contact" should not be used to regarner interest, this "gameplaying" will not work, it certainly stirs anxiety though, because basically Pickup artists learnt that "intermittent reinforcement" is a powerful addictive tool! An actual fearful-avoidant wrote a book about it! His name is Neil Strauss and his book is called "The Game", he denounces the book now, once he worked out his psychology). He as a life coach is totally correct when he says, you need to work on yourself basically, i'm not telling you anything you don't know from here. I would just say once "triggered" an F-A is very hard to flip around and be "trusting" etc ever again, particularly as you say, you are A-P, you will have triggered her with potentially scathing analysis of her life at times, bids for attention, passive aggressive behaviour, over texting due to anxiety etc. But if you apologise wholeheartedly and realise your mistakes as you deem fit, and genuinely want to work on things, along with her apologising for her role in this, things "may" be able to move forward positively. Anything is possible. But, here is the kicker, both have to working towards your "authentic" self and interdependence, true kindness and caring reciprocally. The chances of any relationship lasting without this is slim! sadly. I wish you all the best with what you decide to do! And I hope this commentary has helped open doors to positivity somewhere and understanding!

I'd be very careful with Corey Wayne's guidance and second taking all of his advice with a grain of salt. I think some of what he says can be very good for AP or anxious FA men who can act like doormats with women, in regards to don't overly chase or give her all the power. Be a fuller person on your own. And perhaps the other things he says will create more opportunities for sex if that's your main goal, since they're a little more about playing games. But the rest of the gendered stuff would be very off-putting for a mature and secure woman looking for a real partner and balanced, authentic relationship. The work on boundaries and security you're going to do since you're diving into attachment theory will be a better guide to eventually finding a healthy relationship than Wayne's advice, but if you need some tough love to get you to have more respect for yourself, your own needs, and having balance and identity in your own life outside of dating, I can see that part of the advice and approach working well for some men.

I also think a good rule of thumb is, when looking to professional relationship "experts" specifically for advice, make sure they are in the kind of relationship you're looking for. Corey Wayne is quite rich, but I also believe he's single. So... does his advice work? Does he practice what he preaches?

And Neil Strauss followed up his pickup book The Game with another book called The Truth. It's all about his journey from FA to earned secure, even though he doesn't use those terms, and how he fought as hard as he could against change for years before he got there.