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Post by krolle on Oct 24, 2021 17:46:14 GMT
I Appreciate it.
I reciprocate the congratulations on your improvement progress.
Today I don't know how I'm feeling. certainly not as manic as yesterday. But very low mood and high anxiety. difficulty concentrating.
Because I'm getting mixed signals and breadcrumbs it's much harder for me to know whether to start grieving and cut ties or see things out. I'll have to wait until next week to see unfortunately.
The feeling of tip toeing around someone elses nervous system is very disconcerting. And also embarrasing that I even need to and I don't have what it takes to just cut her loose as too risky an investment as would be logical. I feel like less of a man than I have in a while lol.
In the past I would have just gone out and womanized. And likely forgotten this lady as soon as I heard the sound of a new bra hitting the floor. But these days in trying to be a better man and it's significantly more agonizing.
Tell me how you Are?
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Post by alexandra on Oct 24, 2021 19:16:23 GMT
It's almost like clockwork every time. The second I become available disaster strikes. And it's a massive driver to feel fearfully avoidant. FWIW, I don't think this is a coincidence, but you're putting the wrong story on it. This isn't a you can't trust anybody or yourself thing, even though it sucks. This is just the dance of two unavailable and insecure partners choosing each other. I have a feeling that it's happening because you're choosing people who are leaning anxious (or borderline) because they'll throw themselves in if they feel initial sparks, and the way you're attempting to build trust on your side is letting them prove they are very interested and won't leave you before you're willing to start investing. And what brings your walls down is when they start getting scared and pulling back a bit, because now you're attached since they've "proven" they have stuck around but pulling back or being erratic subconsciously stokes your own anxiety and longing. So basically, the way in which you're seeking proof of consistency is still out of fear and defense since you're reading it out of their anxious desire instead of mutual emotional stability, trust, and building a foundation, because as you've admitted, you're being inconsistent with them during this period until they get scared. So your own inconsistency will be unappealing to someone emotionally stable enough to not flip the switch on you later, and those sticking around are either going to get overwhelmed about your inconsistency and get scared enough to run cold in protest or they are FA / BPD themselves and will have switched off (and maybe on and off) at some other point regardless of what you did or didn't do. Does this scenario sound plausible? If you keep going through it this way, you'll still attract and keep around the partners who are going to end up in this inconsistent dynamic with you. And you getting comfortable just before the flip means you actually ARE aware (I know exactly how hypersensitive to small changes in others and their moods AP and FA can be!), but it's not on a conscious level. So it's not that you can't trust yourself... it's about bringing that out to be conscious so you have the information earlier, plus about learning how to really assess if the other person will be emotionally healthy enough to attach to more securely than you've experienced in the past. Because if what I'm saying is happening, you simply haven't yet had it modeled for you how to tell if someone is capable of consistency. Which is why we're sharing our better experiences with you (better meaning our progressively better experiences relative to where we've been in the past, not better than you). And this also means you rightfully may not be able to fully trust the people you've paired with in the past, since they've shown you you can't. But it doesn't apply to EVERYONE, it's still confirmation and selection bias. So I also understand how this all stokes your FA and fears, especially when you're feeling anxiously triggered and ruminating. But I want to challenge you to think it out instead of accepting that since you feel overwhelmed, it proves you shouldn't trust anyone including yourself, because that part of the emotions guiding you at those times isn't true. I know you're extremely early in, but has your therapist discussed anything about mood disorders with you? I know someone also avoidant who has both things diagnosed and your triggered description a couple posts back sounded reminiscent of what that person has told me. But mood disorder is also a very broad term and I can't go very far with providing any other information on it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 2:11:16 GMT
I Appreciate it. I reciprocate the congratulations on your improvement progress. Today I don't know how I'm feeling. certainly not as manic as yesterday. But very low mood and high anxiety. difficulty concentrating. Because I'm getting mixed signals and breadcrumbs it's much harder for me to know whether to start grieving and cut ties or see things out. I'll have to wait until next week to see unfortunately. The feeling of tip toeing around someone elses nervous system is very disconcerting. And also embarrasing that I even need to and I don't have what it takes to just cut her loose as too risky an investment as would be logical. I feel like less of a man than I have in a while lol. In the past I would have just gone out and womanized. And likely forgotten this lady as soon as I heard the sound of a new bra hitting the floor. But these days in trying to be a better man and it's significantly more agonizing. Tell me how you Are? The wake up process is painful krolle, no doubt about it. I've been thinking a bit lately about how I was, how my life was pre-awareness and pre-transformation and it's pretty damn cringey. I literally cringe at how shallow I could be- at least externally. And the limited, painful beliefs. I have been struck by it all because of the contrast of my life and relationship now. But inbetween, between the old and the new, was the worst pain. I felt anxious and twisted up by a mind-bending narc at one point- there was limerence and confusion and delusion and it was just the most ridiculous thing. I don't stay in that state for long but the whole entanglement went on embarrassingly long before I knew myself well enough to cut it. It was gross really. I didn't know what a vulnerable narc was before that. I feel like I was extremely naive about a lot of things. Anyway- Change is uncomfortable. That's putting it mildly. But so is staying the same, right? You're going to do ok, I really don't doubt it. I'm doing well. We have our boat put away for the winter, and I'm going to start reading my sailing text books. I've hit a great spot professionally and my relationship and family are all peaceful and doing well. So I'm in a pretty pleasant chapter. I'm enjoying it. Just feeling a little weird at times looking back at how it was, like I said! It took me a long time to get here, ha. But it's never too late, and also never to early to start.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 2:13:53 GMT
Oh- and tiptoeing around someone else's nervous system- it's awful. You will get to the point eventually where you are regulated, and to be in chaos and uncertainty of someone's survival system or plain shenanigans won't be the trap that it is right now . I think you can trust that- there is a point to all the learning and it can take you to a better place. Just keep going with it.
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Post by krolle on Oct 25, 2021 2:45:44 GMT
It's almost like clockwork every time. The second I become available disaster strikes. And it's a massive driver to feel fearfully avoidant. FWIW, I don't think this is a coincidence, but you're putting the wrong story on it. This isn't a you can't trust anybody or yourself thing, even though it sucks. This is just the dance of two unavailable and insecure partners choosing each other. I have a feeling that it's happening because you're choosing people who are leaning anxious (or borderline) because they'll throw themselves in if they feel initial sparks, and the way you're attempting to build trust on your side is letting them prove they are very interested and won't leave you before you're willing to start investing. And what brings your walls down is when they start getting scared and pulling back a bit, because now you're attached since they've "proven" they have stuck around but pulling back or being erratic subconsciously stokes your own anxiety and longing. So basically, the way in which you're seeking proof of consistency is still out of fear and defense since you're reading it out of their anxious desire instead of mutual emotional stability, trust, and building a foundation, because as you've admitted, you're being inconsistent with them during this period until they get scared. So your own inconsistency will be unappealing to someone emotionally stable enough to not flip the switch on you later, and those sticking around are either going to get overwhelmed about your inconsistency and get scared enough to run cold in protest or they are FA / BPD themselves and will have switched off (and maybe on and off) at some other point regardless of what you did or didn't do. Does this scenario sound plausible? If you keep going through it this way, you'll still attract and keep around the partners who are going to end up in this inconsistent dynamic with you. And you getting comfortable just before the flip means you actually ARE aware (I know exactly how hypersensitive to small changes in others and their moods AP and FA can be!), but it's not on a conscious level. So it's not that you can't trust yourself... it's about bringing that out to be conscious so you have the information earlier, plus about learning how to really assess if the other person will be emotionally healthy enough to attach to more securely than you've experienced in the past. Because if what I'm saying is happening, you simply haven't yet had it modeled for you how to tell if someone is capable of consistency. Which is why we're sharing our better experiences with you (better meaning our progressively better experiences relative to where we've been in the past, not better than you). And this also means you rightfully may not be able to fully trust the people you've paired with in the past, since they've shown you you can't. But it doesn't apply to EVERYONE, it's still confirmation and selection bias. So I also understand how this all stokes your FA and fears, especially when you're feeling anxiously triggered and ruminating. But I want to challenge you to think it out instead of accepting that since you feel overwhelmed, it proves you shouldn't trust anyone including yourself, because that part of the emotions guiding you at those times isn't true. I know you're extremely early in, but has your therapist discussed anything about mood disorders with you? I know someone also avoidant who has both things diagnosed and your triggered description a couple posts back sounded reminiscent of what that person has told me. But mood disorder is also a very broad term and I can't go very far with providing any other information on it. None of what you said is plausible alexandra , it's truth. I always have a lot of respect for your level of insight. This is no exception. I choose anxious partners yes. Partly because I would much rather be avoidant. Its still crap, but so much more comfortable than anxious. The second reason is because if someone is not interested in me pretty quickly I dismiss them as not being interested in me. So yes, I agree my relationships are built on a foundation of sand for sure. I cannot believe that someone would like the “real” me. I certainly don't. I'm a foul creature at my core, wrapped in a web of sickly sweet lies and deception, even to myself......But I am a little better these days, the needle has moved slightly. I just sound extra pessimistic and crazy lately because I'm being rejected, but also kind of kept in the dark so my nervous system is lost. However I seem to be getting chosen by Avoidant partners lately. As I said I haven't actually pursued anyone for a while because I'm tired of hurting people. And I wasn't actively looking to date for a while. They have chosen and pursued me. I do subconsciously “test” people I'm dating by being avoidant to see if they'll stick around. I'm only barely aware of it. Of course anyone secure is just going to be like “ugggghhhh im out”. Well pointed out. I can't think of any reason a secure partner would be interested in me beyond the honeymoon period. I have little to offer them. I'm unbelievably terrified of commitment. I mean like sheer terror, But I can't be alone either, It's agony. This is the fundamental dilemma of fearful avoidance. At least as it manifests in me. There is no way I could have a successful relationship with someone secure. There is no safe space, no respite, damned if you do damned if you don't. I am completely unable to regulate myself, So I always feel both an addictive fiercely strong need to be with someone, but also am utterly terrified of actually having them. This is nothing new though regarding AT of course. Thank you for the advice about bringing awareness to be more conscious. It makes sense. Regarding therapy, no, we haven't discussed mood disorders. I'm struggling to feel as though I'm getting anything much from my current therapist to be honest. But I'm also not going to use that as an excuse to give up. Just probably change and look for someone more familiar with Attachment theory. I'm still motivated to try. She's just not right for me. It's mostly generic CBT stuff, which I find actually triggers me lol. She also reminds me a lot of my BPD ex physically and in her mannerisms. Which I don't think is good lol. A mood disorder is a no brainer for me, I'm almost constantly on the verge of either a mental breakdown, or completely dissociated. As you said though there are a lot of disorders with similar symptoms so I need professional help. I am still waiting to get into my doctors regarding meds, He was fully booked up for weeks the times I could fit around work. So I'm going a week on Tuesday and will be discussing my symptoms and advocating for myself.
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Post by krolle on Oct 25, 2021 3:19:48 GMT
One of the reasons I am so fu*ked on this occasion is because this situation is extraordinarily similar to the one that absolutely broke me where I was cheated on and given the STD.
I was in a serious mess after that psychologically. And I don't know if im feeling extremely mistrusting because of good experience giving me good insight. Or I'm simply projecting my fears onto the situation.
I got an STD test on Friday to see if it's physiologically a similar situation. Still awaiting results.
I can't tell if it's just FA fears or some part of me that knows I'm being taken advantage of again.
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Post by krolle on Oct 25, 2021 3:59:28 GMT
My minds on overdrive again trying to work things out. I'm quiet convinced I'm being taken for a ride right now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 4:07:01 GMT
One of the reasons I am so fu*ked on this occasion is because this situation is extraordinarily similar to the one that absolutely broke me where I was cheated on and given the STD. I was in a serious mess after that psychologically. And I don't know if im feeling extremely mistrusting because of good experience giving me good insight. Or I'm simply projecting my fears onto the situation. I got an STD test on Friday to see if it's physiologically a similar situation. Still awaiting results. I can't tell if it's just FA fears or some part of me that knows I'm being taken advantage of again. I can tell you one thing- I think we all have an experience that "scares us straight" so to speak. Mine was the narc. After that I was committed to my growth and nothing was ever the same. Even while I didn't have all the answers, I didn't operate the way I used to. No more casual sex, because of how unhealthy that was for me. My boundaries got much better, based on things I learned there. I started listening to myself a lot more, with more empathy for what was really going on inside of me instead of trying to shut it down or dismiss it. I found out how he got in and closed up those holes. It was all part of a long process and it was awful but it takes what it takes, and we are only ready once we are ready. There are layers upon layers of things to work through but the people you meet on the way help more than you'd expect. And it heals a part of you to find those connections, even if fleeting. It was that way for me, at least.
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Post by krolle on Oct 25, 2021 4:08:50 GMT
I feel unbridled rage right now.
I will process your message in the morning. Thankyou introvert.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 4:10:23 GMT
My minds on overdrive again trying to work things out. I'm quiet convinced I'm being taken for a ride right now. Whatever her motive, she's got shit relationships skills so it's not something you can put your trust into- here may be where you learn to trust yourself by acknowledging it doesn't feel good because it isn't. I mean seriously- she flaked and broke up over text. So yeah, there's a red flag. Now you're just going to do some communicating and who knows what's next but you're not making anything up to say this is iffy. I'm not saying she's Ms. Evil , out to get you but this isn't solid ground. The opportunity you have here is to represent yourself and walk it out and see what comes up, and how to respond. There isn't anything you can figure out except to listen to what's going on in yourself, o serve what's going on "out there" .and make conscious choices about what you want to do about it. Going through it all with awareness is huge even if it feels like a three ring shitshow.
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Post by krolle on Oct 25, 2021 4:11:39 GMT
Fuck, I wouldn'teven be surprised if I met the criteria for borderline these days. The irony after all the moaning I did about that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2021 4:15:02 GMT
Fuck, I wouldn'teven be surprised if I met the criteria for borderline these days. The irony after all the moaning I did about that. Meh, don't worry about all that just yet. You're going to get it sorted. Have you been able to rest, eat, do the normal stuff?
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Post by krolle on Oct 25, 2021 4:24:13 GMT
I'm out doing hill sprints.
My shield of shame and lying to myself is disintegrating and showing me just what a terrible partner I'v been before.
The defences against shame and guilt literally lie to you. Allow you to act without compassion.
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Post by krolle on Oct 25, 2021 4:27:46 GMT
Things I'v long denied are pouring out of me lately in floods of tears and rage.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 25, 2021 4:32:13 GMT
I'm no professional expert krolle, but I don't think you're BPD. Just triggered and FA, maybe with some other stuff going on too but I still don't think it's a PD. I know it feels overwhelming and lousy right now but it'll pass. Exercise sounds like a good plan
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