benni
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by benni on Jan 3, 2022 17:27:40 GMT
My ex (M26) (most likely FA) broke up with me(f25) about 3 months ago. We went NC for about 1.5 months after which they were the first to reach out. Since then, we have engaged on a daily basis to some extent. Usually a small chat and memes and sometimes a bit more extensive conversation. When he broke up with me he asked if we could try and start as friends which I agreed. I'd say at this point it was going pretty well but he sent something that instantaneously upset me the other day. It was a meme captioned with 'me'. The context of the meme being, that animes where the main protagonist is perceived as extremely average or sub par but is chased by one or many attractive girls and how it's bait to men who are lonely, broke, and can't get no bitches. Now I know this is him being self-deprecating and probably doesn't mean anything in regards to me. He probably didn't even think how it would come across to me. But it made me so angry because we dated and he broke up with me. I don't mean to be pretentious but I know I'm attractive. I know that I'm intelligent, ambitious, funny, and have a lot of interests/hobbies (shared with him). I would have done anything to make us work, but we broke up because they felt they couldn't put in the energy our relationship deserved. I honestly respect that...it's a very valid way to feel, and I know he's going through a lot at the moment.
I know that this is him essentially saying he feels lonely and insecure, and that there's a part of him that wants some kind attention/validation/intimacy....BUT I guess it just feels like a slap to the face... when he broke up with me he expressed how our relationship was the best he's ever had, and that he loves me. He told me that I was the most stable partner he's had and how nice it was that he could rely on me. That I'm so loving and it's fun and not a chore to spend time with me. Yet it feels like all of it was devalued. I WAS BITCHES. ME = BITCHES. He had me who would have given and has given that type of love. He had me who would have respected his autonomy and need for space if he communicated that to me. It's like he vicariously lives through these main protagonists because he can't get that in real life. Yet there was me.
Tho I feel I can't tell him that the meme makes me upset b/c it would require me explaining why. If I did... I know that will set back our progress as friends since it would require me explaining how I do have romantic feelings for him still, that I'm sorting out. I know the general advice is to cut him out. That if I have feelings it really isn't a friendship....but I'm serious about being friends. I would be happy for him if he found someone who made him happy because I just want him to succeed and be happy in life. I have managed to do this with previous exes before (currently helping out with one of their engagement to their current s/o)
I know this is mostly just a rant because my ego was bruised.
I guess I would appreciate some insight from the avoidant perspective since I'm quite AP.
(The AP part of me which I'm trying to not entertain, thinks this is his way of saying there is no one else and he wants a connection....just not willing to make the move. Since I visited him a couple of weeks ago (really pleasant catch up....real nice hug) he has warmed up a lot. Even blatantly slipping in some very mild flirting.)
- Would you send something like this to an ex you're friends with? Would you even consider sending sexual memes to recent a ex-turned-friend?
- is this an indirect way to be vulnerable?
- is this just a subtle ask for validation?
- would you count this as bread-crumbing?
- Am I being too emotional about this? Overthinking the intensions?
- Is this just a straight up dick move?
- Would it not occur to you how something like that would be interpreted?
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jan 3, 2022 18:54:21 GMT
My ex (M26) (most likely FA) broke up with me(f25) about 3 months ago. We went NC for about 1.5 months after which they were the first to reach out. Since then, we have engaged on a daily basis to some extent. Usually a small chat and memes and sometimes a bit more extensive conversation. When he broke up with me he asked if we could try and start as friends which I agreed. I'd say at this point it was going pretty well but he sent something that instantaneously upset me the other day. It was a meme captioned with 'me'. The context of the meme being, that animes where the main protagonist is perceived as extremely average or sub par but is chased by one or many attractive girls and how it's bait to men who are lonely, broke, and can't get no bitches. Now I know this is him being self-deprecating and probably doesn't mean anything in regards to me. He probably didn't even think how it would come across to me. But it made me so angry because we dated and he broke up with me. I don't mean to be pretentious but I know I'm attractive. I know that I'm intelligent, ambitious, funny, and have a lot of interests/hobbies (shared with him). I would have done anything to make us work, but we broke up because they felt they couldn't put in the energy our relationship deserved. I honestly respect that...it's a very valid way to feel, and I know he's going through a lot at the moment. I know that this is him essentially saying he feels lonely and insecure, and that there's a part of him that wants some kind attention/validation/intimacy....BUT I guess it just feels like a slap to the face... when he broke up with me he expressed how our relationship was the best he's ever had, and that he loves me. He told me that I was the most stable partner he's had and how nice it was that he could rely on me. That I'm so loving and it's fun and not a chore to spend time with me. Yet it feels like all of it was devalued. I WAS BITCHES. ME = BITCHES. He had me who would have given and has given that type of love. He had me who would have respected his autonomy and need for space if he communicated that to me. It's like he vicariously lives through these main protagonists because he can't get that in real life. Yet there was me. Tho I feel I can't tell him that the meme makes me upset b/c it would require me explaining why. If I did... I know that will set back our progress as friends since it would require me explaining how I do have romantic feelings for him still, that I'm sorting out. I know the general advice is to cut him out. That if I have feelings it really isn't a friendship....but I'm serious about being friends. I would be happy for him if he found someone who made him happy because I just want him to succeed and be happy in life. I have managed to do this with previous exes before (currently helping out with one of their engagement to their current s/o) I know this is mostly just a rant because my ego was bruised. I guess I would appreciate some insight from the avoidant perspective since I'm quite AP. (The AP part of me which I'm trying to not entertain, thinks this is his way of saying there is no one else and he wants a connection....just not willing to make the move. Since I visited him a couple of weeks ago (really pleasant catch up....real nice hug) he has warmed up a lot. Even blatantly slipping in some very mild flirting.) - Would you send something like this to an ex you're friends with? Would you even consider sending sexual memes to recent a ex-turned-friend? - is this an indirect way to be vulnerable? - is this just a subtle ask for validation? - would you count this as bread-crumbing? - Am I being too emotional about this? Overthinking the intensions? - Is this just a straight up dick move? - Would it not occur to you how something like that would be interpreted? Hi there….I know you don’t want to explain how this came across to you…but…could you ask him what he means by sending you the meme? Right now you are reading things into it and asking the forum to also read into it when you do not have a clear understanding from him of why he sent it. Part of becoming more secure is clarifying things…especially with friends. Once you have his answer….at that point we can help you navigate through it…but without context, none of us can really provide a good response. It can be as simple as saying….I don’t understand why you sent the meme to me…can you please provide me with some context so I can respond. 🙂 |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jan 3, 2022 20:14:56 GMT
On a more broader scale…if the question is…can an insecure (it does not have to be an avoidant) person give mixed signals? The answer is yes. However, having dated several insecure men, I never had a situation where an insecure ex sent me mixed signals in an attempt to get back together. What I experienced was a scenario where now there wasn’t any concern around being officially in a relationship which led to more “flirty friendly” texts and conversations. Would I have considered those as ones I would send to a “friend”? No….but, I quickly realized that my expectation of a friendship and his were somewhat different. I still think the best coarse is to clarify his context regarding the meme….because it may be he sees it very differently then how you have.
|
|
benni
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by benni on Jan 3, 2022 21:26:44 GMT
My initial response was to just play it off with a joke which is pretty much my default. My issue now is that I feel like it is too late to bring it up.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 3, 2022 21:27:07 GMT
- is this an indirect way to be vulnerable? - is this just a subtle ask for validation? - would you count this as bread-crumbing? - Am I being too emotional about this? Overthinking the intensions? - Is this just a straight up dick move? - Would it not occur to you how something like that would be interpreted? I'm going to take a stab, even though it is mindreading. - No. He is not being vulnerable. - Yes. He is seeking validation. - As he has told you he wants to be friends and is in some amount of regular contact, it's not bread-crumbing unless you choose to see it that way. - Yes, you are overthinking, from the perspective of he didn't do anything but thoughtlessly sent you a meme. You feel upset about it, and are focusing on him and what it means instead of yourself and why you are actually upset. Maybe you're not ready to be friends yet until you've fully grieved and processed and gotten over him, because healthy friendships shouldn't batter your ego. It's okay to need more time to depersonalize what happened and move forward further before you can commit to rebuilding a friendship without any other agenda. - Can't comment on being a dick, unless he has a history of being a dick. If he doesn't, then he's probably just not thinking about what he sent and it's ignorance. - No, since he's not being vulnerable, I'm sure he wasn't thinking about anything beyond his own needs and fishing for validation. This entire blip of interaction is why things didn't work between you and why the dynamic is still unchanged, however. All insecure types have difficulty with vulnerability and go out of their way to fight it (out of fear). Often, they eventually show vulnerability to the wrong people, other insecure attachers they don't actually have a foundation of trust with. But they WANT to be able to trust them, and hope if they lead with sharing feelings then the other person will be inspired to respond in the way they're looking for. But asking for someone without the capacity and with their own issues subconsciously sets you up for rejection and validating your existing beliefs that you shouldn't be vulnerable. He's still not a fully emotionally safe person for you, no matter his intent behind this. That is the takeaway. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 3, 2022 21:32:48 GMT
Also, since you are no longer officially together, he feels safe being flirty, and yes getting back validation, because he believes there's no pressure for it to lead anywhere or to additional responsibilities. As soon as things got real between you two again and you were more available to him, he'd panic and shut down. That's how the FA/AP "come back, too close! go away, too far! come back" cycle works. After the breakup you get downgraded to friends, maybe friends+, but there's no full commitment because the FA person doesn't actually want that. And if that ever changed, for real, if they'd done growth work (like going to therapy) and were ready -- they'd let you know. And you'd observe them over time, and there would be full consistency and NO mixed signals. Going back for anything less than that is a recipe for repetition, and looking for/ reading signs for anything less than being directly told "I want to get back together" is a waste of time.
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jan 3, 2022 21:44:25 GMT
My initial response was to just play it off with a joke which is pretty much my default. My issue now is that I feel like it is too late to bring it up. But this validates what alexandra is saying above…you are overthinking things…like a chess game…you are trying to guess at his intentions so that you can respond correctly. I agree that now may not be the time to try to engage in a friendship with him. I really wish I had gotten this advice before agreeing to being friends with that guy I had been seeing. I over-read, overthought texts and interactions. I literally spent hours reviewing a text conversation. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2022 22:59:43 GMT
I'm with alexandra, all points. I also think: Dick move? Yes. Unthoughtful, tasteless, immature, intentional dick move or not, this is a dick of a friend you're choosing. What you see is what you get, no need to overthink it because really- isn't this beneath you? You decide what friends you keep and if this your level, knock yourself out but don't expect to feel good in this "friendship". |
|
|
|
Post by DearLover on Jan 4, 2022 0:09:54 GMT
My ex (M26) (most likely FA) broke up with me(f25) about 3 months ago. We went NC for about 1.5 months after which they were the first to reach out. Since then, we have engaged on a daily basis to some extent. Usually a small chat and memes and sometimes a bit more extensive conversation. When he broke up with me he asked if we could try and start as friends which I agreed. I'd say at this point it was going pretty well but he sent something that instantaneously upset me the other day. It was a meme captioned with 'me'. The context of the meme being, that animes where the main protagonist is perceived as extremely average or sub par but is chased by one or many attractive girls and how it's bait to men who are lonely, broke, and can't get no bitches. Now I know this is him being self-deprecating and probably doesn't mean anything in regards to me. He probably didn't even think how it would come across to me. But it made me so angry because we dated and he broke up with me. I don't mean to be pretentious but I know I'm attractive. I know that I'm intelligent, ambitious, funny, and have a lot of interests/hobbies (shared with him). I would have done anything to make us work, but we broke up because they felt they couldn't put in the energy our relationship deserved. I honestly respect that...it's a very valid way to feel, and I know he's going through a lot at the moment. I know that this is him essentially saying he feels lonely and insecure, and that there's a part of him that wants some kind attention/validation/intimacy....BUT I guess it just feels like a slap to the face... when he broke up with me he expressed how our relationship was the best he's ever had, and that he loves me. He told me that I was the most stable partner he's had and how nice it was that he could rely on me. That I'm so loving and it's fun and not a chore to spend time with me. Yet it feels like all of it was devalued. I WAS BITCHES. ME = BITCHES. He had me who would have given and has given that type of love. He had me who would have respected his autonomy and need for space if he communicated that to me. It's like he vicariously lives through these main protagonists because he can't get that in real life. Yet there was me. Tho I feel I can't tell him that the meme makes me upset b/c it would require me explaining why. If I did... I know that will set back our progress as friends since it would require me explaining how I do have romantic feelings for him still, that I'm sorting out. I know the general advice is to cut him out. That if I have feelings it really isn't a friendship....but I'm serious about being friends. I would be happy for him if he found someone who made him happy because I just want him to succeed and be happy in life. I have managed to do this with previous exes before (currently helping out with one of their engagement to their current s/o) I know this is mostly just a rant because my ego was bruised. I guess I would appreciate some insight from the avoidant perspective since I'm quite AP. (The AP part of me which I'm trying to not entertain, thinks this is his way of saying there is no one else and he wants a connection....just not willing to make the move. Since I visited him a couple of weeks ago (really pleasant catch up....real nice hug) he has warmed up a lot. Even blatantly slipping in some very mild flirting.) - Would you send something like this to an ex you're friends with? Would you even consider sending sexual memes to recent a ex-turned-friend? - is this an indirect way to be vulnerable? - is this just a subtle ask for validation? - would you count this as bread-crumbing? - Am I being too emotional about this? Overthinking the intensions? - Is this just a straight up dick move? - Would it not occur to you how something like that would be interpreted? I congratulate you for being so mature and keeping the doors open for friendship or otherwise and I wish my heart was that strong when I was in a very similar situation some time ago. I closed the gates of communication because of 1 very little and insignificant stupid joke that was actually quite innocent. One of the main problems about romantic relationships - after attachment styles - is communication. Men and women don't usually understand each other's thought process and this is actually the beauty of the journey to learn how to overcome that. One thing I know - In order for one to really be happy in life, authenticity and honesty with self is fundamental. If they can't handle your truth then he is not worthy to be in your life, he doesn't deserve your energy. Don't worry if you will sound lovesick, crazy, attached, whatever. Speak your mind. Get it out of your system to him - in a friendly way. There is so much value in our raw emotions and truth. Life is too short. A good connection is rare now a days. Love is precious. Pride just create bitterness. I bet he has very little awareness of what that message done to you. And maybe it is about his subconscious saying: "you are TOO GOOD for me" |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jan 4, 2022 0:51:19 GMT
My ex (M26) (most likely FA) broke up with me(f25) about 3 months ago. We went NC for about 1.5 months after which they were the first to reach out. Since then, we have engaged on a daily basis to some extent. Usually a small chat and memes and sometimes a bit more extensive conversation. When he broke up with me he asked if we could try and start as friends which I agreed. I'd say at this point it was going pretty well but he sent something that instantaneously upset me the other day. It was a meme captioned with 'me'. The context of the meme being, that animes where the main protagonist is perceived as extremely average or sub par but is chased by one or many attractive girls and how it's bait to men who are lonely, broke, and can't get no bitches. Now I know this is him being self-deprecating and probably doesn't mean anything in regards to me. He probably didn't even think how it would come across to me. But it made me so angry because we dated and he broke up with me. I don't mean to be pretentious but I know I'm attractive. I know that I'm intelligent, ambitious, funny, and have a lot of interests/hobbies (shared with him). I would have done anything to make us work, but we broke up because they felt they couldn't put in the energy our relationship deserved. I honestly respect that...it's a very valid way to feel, and I know he's going through a lot at the moment. I know that this is him essentially saying he feels lonely and insecure, and that there's a part of him that wants some kind attention/validation/intimacy....BUT I guess it just feels like a slap to the face... when he broke up with me he expressed how our relationship was the best he's ever had, and that he loves me. He told me that I was the most stable partner he's had and how nice it was that he could rely on me. That I'm so loving and it's fun and not a chore to spend time with me. Yet it feels like all of it was devalued. I WAS BITCHES. ME = BITCHES. He had me who would have given and has given that type of love. He had me who would have respected his autonomy and need for space if he communicated that to me. It's like he vicariously lives through these main protagonists because he can't get that in real life. Yet there was me. Tho I feel I can't tell him that the meme makes me upset b/c it would require me explaining why. If I did... I know that will set back our progress as friends since it would require me explaining how I do have romantic feelings for him still, that I'm sorting out. I know the general advice is to cut him out. That if I have feelings it really isn't a friendship....but I'm serious about being friends. I would be happy for him if he found someone who made him happy because I just want him to succeed and be happy in life. I have managed to do this with previous exes before (currently helping out with one of their engagement to their current s/o) I know this is mostly just a rant because my ego was bruised. I guess I would appreciate some insight from the avoidant perspective since I'm quite AP. (The AP part of me which I'm trying to not entertain, thinks this is his way of saying there is no one else and he wants a connection....just not willing to make the move. Since I visited him a couple of weeks ago (really pleasant catch up....real nice hug) he has warmed up a lot. Even blatantly slipping in some very mild flirting.) - Would you send something like this to an ex you're friends with? Would you even consider sending sexual memes to recent a ex-turned-friend? - is this an indirect way to be vulnerable? - is this just a subtle ask for validation? - would you count this as bread-crumbing? - Am I being too emotional about this? Overthinking the intensions? - Is this just a straight up dick move? - Would it not occur to you how something like that would be interpreted? I congratulate you for being so mature and keeping the doors open for friendship or otherwise and I wish my heart was that strong when I was in a very similar situation some time ago. I closed the gates of communication because of 1 very little and insignificant stupid joke that was actually quite innocent. One of the main problems about romantic relationships - after attachment styles - is communication. Men and women don't usually understand each other's thought process and this is actually the beauty of the journey to learn how to overcome that. One thing I know - In order for one to really be happy in life, authenticity and honesty with self is fundamental. If they can't handle your truth then he is not worthy to be in your life, he doesn't deserve your energy. Don't worry if you will sound lovesick, crazy, attached, whatever. Speak your mind. Get it out of your system to him - in a friendly way. There is so much value in our raw emotions and truth. Life is too short. A good connection is rare now a days. Love is precious. Pride just create bitterness. I bet he has very little awareness of what that message done to you. And maybe it is about his subconscious saying: "you are TOO GOOD for me" Keeping the door open isn’t necessarily a sign of maturity….it depends on the intent…many, many insecurely attached individuals keep the door open hoping for a second chance and then end up engaging in the push pull dynamic, but without the commitment. |
|
benni
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by benni on Jan 4, 2022 1:09:09 GMT
My initial response was to just play it off with a joke which is pretty much my default. My issue now is that I feel like it is too late to bring it up. But this validates what alexandra is saying above…you are overthinking things…like a chess game…you are trying to guess at his intentions so that you can respond correctly. I agree that now may not be the time to try to engage in a friendship with him. I really wish I had gotten this advice before agreeing to being friends with that guy I had been seeing. I over-read, overthought texts and interactions. I literally spent hours reviewing a text conversation You're right in the sense that to some degree I do view it like chess....but I can say with some pride that how many interactions I view as such, have significantly been reduced compared to the beginning. The joke I ended up replying with was something I'd send to any of my other guy friends and left it at that. Like I mentioned I logically don't think it had anything really to do with me. I know he has expressed he has been struggling with self-esteem and with feeling lonely a couple of times in the last couple of weeks. Just emotionally I know I'm triggered because its like our history was buried deep and forgotten. |
|
benni
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by benni on Jan 4, 2022 1:19:21 GMT
I congratulate you for being so mature and keeping the doors open for friendship or otherwise and I wish my heart was that strong when I was in a very similar situation some time ago. I closed the gates of communication because of 1 very little and insignificant stupid joke that was actually quite innocent. One of the main problems about romantic relationships - after attachment styles - is communication. Men and women don't usually understand each other's thought process and this is actually the beauty of the journey to learn how to overcome that. One thing I know - In order for one to really be happy in life, authenticity and honesty with self is fundamental. If they can't handle your truth then he is not worthy to be in your life, he doesn't deserve your energy. Don't worry if you will sound lovesick, crazy, attached, whatever. Speak your mind. Get it out of your system to him - in a friendly way. There is so much value in our raw emotions and truth. Life is too short. A good connection is rare now a days. Love is precious. Pride just create bitterness. I bet he has very little awareness of what that message done to you. And maybe it is about his subconscious saying: "you are TOO GOOD for me" Keeping the door open isn’t necessarily a sign of maturity….it depends on the intent…many, many insecurely attached individuals keep the door open hoping for a second chance and then end up engaging in the push pull dynamic, but without the commitment. Again you arn't wrong, it does depend on intent. I really do want to be friends but I acknowledge that my insecure attachment gets in the way. Not in the sense that I'm hoping for a second chance...but that I still haven't fully tamed that AP activation that does get hopeful. I don't expect that one day he will suddenly want to be with me, but there still is a knee jerk reaction to positive signals (i.e. says something flirtatious/playful). |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jan 4, 2022 15:11:11 GMT
Keeping the door open isn’t necessarily a sign of maturity….it depends on the intent…many, many insecurely attached individuals keep the door open hoping for a second chance and then end up engaging in the push pull dynamic, but without the commitment. Again you arn't wrong, it does depend on intent. I really do want to be friends but I acknowledge that my insecure attachment gets in the way. Not in the sense that I'm hoping for a second chance...but that I still haven't fully tamed that AP activation that does get hopeful. I don't expect that one day he will suddenly want to be with me, but there still is a knee jerk reaction to positive signals (i.e. says something flirtatious/playful). Brene brown has a really excellent way of dealing with assumptions…she calls it out…”the story in my head is….”….I have used this technique often when I find myself jumping to conclusions without enough information. Since our brains can’t distinguish between a story and reality when it comes to reactions and emotions…calling out the story for what it is gives you a chance to check in if your emotions are more then the situation would reasonably allow. Just a suggestion. 🙂 |
|
benni
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by benni on Jan 4, 2022 17:18:09 GMT
Again you arn't wrong, it does depend on intent. I really do want to be friends but I acknowledge that my insecure attachment gets in the way. Not in the sense that I'm hoping for a second chance...but that I still haven't fully tamed that AP activation that does get hopeful. I don't expect that one day he will suddenly want to be with me, but there still is a knee jerk reaction to positive signals (i.e. says something flirtatious/playful). Brene brown has a really excellent way of dealing with assumptions…she calls it out…”the story in my head is….”….I have used this technique often when I find myself jumping to conclusions without enough information. Since our brains can’t distinguish between a story and reality when it comes to reactions and emotions…calling out the story for what it is gives you a chance to check in if your emotions are more then the situation would reasonably allow. Just a suggestion. 🙂 I will definitely look into it! Thank you for the suggestion  |
|
|
|
Post by DearLover on Jan 5, 2022 22:26:05 GMT
I congratulate you for being so mature and keeping the doors open for friendship or otherwise and I wish my heart was that strong when I was in a very similar situation some time ago. I closed the gates of communication because of 1 very little and insignificant stupid joke that was actually quite innocent. One of the main problems about romantic relationships - after attachment styles - is communication. Men and women don't usually understand each other's thought process and this is actually the beauty of the journey to learn how to overcome that. One thing I know - In order for one to really be happy in life, authenticity and honesty with self is fundamental. If they can't handle your truth then he is not worthy to be in your life, he doesn't deserve your energy. Don't worry if you will sound lovesick, crazy, attached, whatever. Speak your mind. Get it out of your system to him - in a friendly way. There is so much value in our raw emotions and truth. Life is too short. A good connection is rare now a days. Love is precious. Pride just create bitterness. I bet he has very little awareness of what that message done to you. And maybe it is about his subconscious saying: "you are TOO GOOD for me" Keeping the door open isn’t necessarily a sign of maturity….it depends on the intent…many, many insecurely attached individuals keep the door open hoping for a second chance and then end up engaging in the push pull dynamic, but without the commitment. Fair enough. That's why I specifically said * keeping the doors open for friendship * To me, it means proof of growth, emotional maturity, healing And it can also be used as a measuring tool to check where the agenda is - especially since AP's are expert in lying to themselves and creating strategies to hold on to the object of desire My door is open for the FA I last had a situation with Each time he comes offering a 'ticket' fort the 'rollercoaster' ride, I have an opportunity to access where I am at and reinforce to myself my core desire for romance and I do not sway, if anything it makes me stronger |
|
