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Post by seeking on Jan 23, 2022 22:45:46 GMT
1. Is - I'm trying to wrap my mind around how a DA in one relationship can change in another when they've done *no work*? Unless, maybe, they are not truly DA? Or a different dynamic can keep them gong for years? I didn't even think this was possible with DA
2. Where is the literature that talks about the term "activate" and "de-activate"? Or maybe someone here can explain and provide more context?
This!
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 23, 2022 23:46:31 GMT
1. Is - I'm trying to wrap my mind around how a DA in one relationship can change in another when they've done *no work*? Unless, maybe, they are not truly DA? Or a different dynamic can keep them gong for years? I didn't even think this was possible with DA 2. Where is the literature that talks about the term "activate" and "de-activate"? Or maybe someone here can explain and provide more context? This! Who says they have changed? The honeymoon period can cover a lot of problems in a relationship. Also as you pointed out there are always different dynamics. It becomes a loop of two people reacting to each other and then to those reactions and so on. Maybe they found a partner more emotionally unavailable then them. Or we tend to seek out people who are subconsciously familiar, like our parents. Maybe it's not healthy but the new partner is like their parent and it keeps them in the relationship to try to work out their original pain.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2022 23:53:36 GMT
There are also many more factors in a relationship than just attachment style. Personality traits, interests, financial dependence or no, circumstances, children, the list goes on. The anxious/avoidant dynamic can be very long term actually. Sometimes people are like oil and water and can't mix and sometimes they can go on for years.
But dynamics do vary, there is the general anxious/avoidant dynamic but variations in individuals, as in, different places on the spectrum, different levels of security, different mixes of the insecure styles.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 24, 2022 0:04:09 GMT
Someone can also decide they are unhappy enough to really commit to trying something else and making different decisions or behaving differently, even if they haven't actually done "the work" yet. But it means they're at the beginning of potential change. Doesn't have to do with the new partner, it's just timing against their own pain. It may or may not work or stick (think someone who says they want to lose weight and tries a fad diet but still yo-yos instead of the weight loss being sustainable as there's no real long-term lifestyle change). But good on the person for trying if they're learning from it, and hopefully they'll be able to check and adjust and make their way further through the process instead of saying "I tried and failed so learned to never try."
There should be other posts in the forum describing avoidant deactivation.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 24, 2022 0:19:00 GMT
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Post by seeking on Jan 24, 2022 0:19:04 GMT
Thanks, everyone - really good answers. All make sense.
Alexandra, as far as the "deactivation" I thought I saw it used here as "activating" Or something - like attachment "activates" ? Did you ever see it used that way? That's why I was asking about activation/de-activation
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Post by alexandra on Jan 24, 2022 0:19:52 GMT
No, deactivation is short hand for an avoidant getting triggered avoidant, detaching, going emotionally numb, etc. The shut down response to nervous system overwhelm.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 24, 2022 0:20:58 GMT
I guess on the flip side, an anxious person can get activated -- triggered anxious, which is when their nervous system gets overwhelmed and flooded instead of shut down.
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 24, 2022 0:34:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 2:10:08 GMT
I can speak to deactivation a little- but question: don't FA deactivate as well? For me, deactivation is a combination of a "feeling" or physiological phenomena and the thoughts that accompany it. The physiological phenomena might better be described as an absence of attachment feeling. Dullness. So, if I were to search my heart and mind for that feeling of affection, attachment, connection, I find kind of a blankness. The thoughts that accompany that feeling are along the lines of: "Ah, I return to me. This is how I really am, solitary. I shall become strong here, I can rest, I am ok." Sounds great at the moment, until you realize that it's not true, you are not solitary, only yesterday you were connected and viewed life as a partner in a couple. "Where did it go? Hmmm. I feel relaxed but disconnected. " It's a temporary state now but I used to pretty much live there, except for emotional times of new relationship or whatever. I've learned that now that I really do attach and connect this deactivation so to speak is kind of a mood but not really a mood- it's a transient state brought on by something. Interesting- my partner is away traveling right now. I'm really happy for him, and the first day I missed him and joked that I would be like a puppy, chewing on his shoes til he comes home. 😆 I had that cute warm nice feeling of love and attachment. Sometimes (but not always! I have a lot of secure emotional states too- right now I have a close friend declining at the end of his life so it's an underlying sadness) ...when he's gone I wonder what life would be like without him (a painful thought, and easier to imagine if he is absent) and it stresses me out. That's the feeling of vulnerability that we DA have such a deep fear/discomfort/avoidance about. So then I deactivate, I don't know quite how it starts, I can't pinpoint the thought or process but before you know it, I have mild thoughts of "I need to meditate more to stay in touch with the reality that I am an island." (?) I don't feel nervous or stressy feelings or anything, it's just that my reality channel goes back to isolation and solitude (not loneliness, it feels fine). And I feel very far removed, not anti-partner and not pushing away, not reaching, just over here and he's over there and I can remember that I felt deep attachment but I don't Feel it- there isn't that stirring in me. It feels impersonal. I tend to have lots of ne time and do a hobby, or rest, read, think deep thoughts. It passes like a mood, it may stay for days or it might be gone when I wake up. In the meantime, if he calls or I call I just set that aside. I go back to normal, and I will be sweet and mean it! But i don't have that same sensation in my body. I ride the waves of that deactivation, and I think it's a lot smoother and almost undetectable unless I'm really introspecting, than someone having anxious moods. It's dull," deactivated", not intense, not "activated." No oblivious, not necessarily numb with everything- the description of a "deactivated attachment system" describes it very well although I think the term sounds mechanical and odd lol. I can also get the deactivated experience from too much connection, or angry conflict, or other things, external stress. I notice that it undulates. When it goes, normal takes its place. Not anxious, not over the top anything, just comfortable and connected and intimate. If he walked in the room right now and laid down to hug me and we just snuggled I'd stream back into connection. If he didn't call me or I couldn't reach him to stay in touch while he's gone, my thoughts might become negative and I'd deactivate more. But I am aware so I watch it and don't make too much of it- in fact I typically connect with him to just get connected again and ride the wave. The feelings will come. So for me, I am able to be pretty secure even while this hard wiring still runs in the background a little. It doesn't hold much weight with me. I have no idea if that's how it goes for an anxious person recovering, because by nature anxiety is just upsetting and causes worry. These things still confuse me. Anyway- maybe that helps, maybe it makes things more confusing, idk. It's weird stuff and I don't think I can explain it as it is. Speak of, he's calling. Yay! 😃
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 24, 2022 2:22:36 GMT
Yes sorry. Us FAs (disorganized) do both activating and de-activating because we tend to come from a more unpredictable unbringing. I often joke that I am a stray cat. I want food and love but not too much and I get spooked easily.
Your description of deactivation is so accurate. It feels like peace. Where as when I'm activated and in panic mode, my inner child is upset and crying and throwing a tantrum and just wants someone to come hug her.
I can also flip myself from one to the other just in my brain. Maybe I get overwhelmed due to too much closeness and I pull back a little and then somewhere along the line I realize it and panic and then I swing anxious until I get reassurance they aren't mad at me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 2:30:13 GMT
Yes sorry. Us FAs (disorganized) do both activating and de-activating because we tend to come from a more unpredictable unbringing. I often joke that I am a stray cat. I want food and love but not too much and I get spooked easily. Your description of deactivation is so accurate. It feels like peace. Where as when I'm activated and in panic mode, my inner child is upset and crying and throwing a tantrum and just wants someone to come hug her. I can also flip myself from one to the other just in my brain. Maybe I get overwhelmed due to too much closeness and I pull back a little and then somewhere along the line I realize it and panic and then I swing anxious until I get reassurance they aren't mad at me. I think some FA's get a panicky kind of deactivation as well. So more like a running energy instead of a reclining energy, if how I imagine the difference. I mean, I have been FA-ish when I was with a narc- but I don't remember what that really FEELS like. I had anxiety, that activation sometimes but I threw that all away when I was able to get myself out of that. It was really messy. It's kind of silly but there's this little cute thing I do with my partner that is going to sound really stupid here, but I feel the little puppy thing a little (not really but it's a playful missing) and I send him little gif's acting out (like little kids having a tantrum or puppies chewing stuff up) and then he sends me all the cute lovey stuff back. It's a game but it's bonding for us and pretty endearing. It makes me feel little but in a good way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 2:31:27 GMT
Yes sorry. Us FAs (disorganized) do both activating and de-activating because we tend to come from a more unpredictable unbringing. I often joke that I am a stray cat. I want food and love but not too much and I get spooked easily. Your description of deactivation is so accurate. It feels like peace. Where as when I'm activated and in panic mode, my inner child is upset and crying and throwing a tantrum and just wants someone to come hug her. I can also flip myself from one to the other just in my brain. Maybe I get overwhelmed due to too much closeness and I pull back a little and then somewhere along the line I realize it and panic and then I swing anxious until I get reassurance they aren't mad at me. Ha- I relate to the cat feeling but I'm a house cat and it's my house and people come to visit. haha
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 2:34:59 GMT
cherrycola that flipping does sound like what I read in the FA thread. FA get overwhelmed on an instinctive level by closeness. I get overwhelmed by something that feels overbearing and restrictive or overly vulnerable - that feels risky. So it's not just closeness but some kind of impingement or emotional pain that will switch me to deactivate. True connecting doesn't, though- unless I fear the loss of that connection in some vague way and then I automatically distance (but I can detect and correct that pretty quickly- in my earlier life it wold just take over and I drifted alone a lot). Anyway, weird stuff ain't it?
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 24, 2022 3:36:34 GMT
cherrycola that flipping does sound like what I read in the FA thread. FA get overwhelmed on an instinctive level by closeness. I get overwhelmed by something that feels overbearing and restrictive or overly vulnerable - that feels risky. So it's not just closeness but some kind of impingement or emotional pain that will switch me to deactivate. True connecting doesn't, though- unless I fear the loss of that connection in some vague way and then I automatically distance (but I can detect and correct that pretty quickly- in my earlier life it wold just take over and I drifted alone a lot). Anyway, weird stuff ain't it? I've only been overwhelmed by demands once. A newer friend who is extreme AP. Non stop texting and constantly wanting to hang out. He told me all his friends abandon him which only made me feel worse. One day I fully just shut down and wanted nothing to do with him. Luckily despite my confusion I was able to recognize that I liked spending time with this person and I was able to set a boundary of space. He has also done some work and even though he was massively hurt he was able to respect that. It took three months for me to even text and longer to hang out again. A year later and we are doing much better. I've never had an AP friend before, all DAs. 😅. It's nice to explore this side of me.
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