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Post by timely on Feb 2, 2022 16:11:03 GMT
Hello Everyone, I am new here. Just want to share and get some insights. There are some 'strange' elements in my story, but I want to get your opinion to make sense of this. I am 33 F, my specific person is 44 M. I met him at work about 5 years ago. In the first 3 years things remained friendly and casual between us. He was always very kind and polite, always helping me with work-related stuff. We would chit-chat via the company app, but only as friends. I felt a little bit of attraction and at first I looked for signs of attraction from him, but never got any serious signals. In those years he dated a few women and I was also 'looking around' and 'dating' other people - nothing worked out for either of us. Then around the start of 2020 he left our company, and moved to another job. Even while leaving he never gave me any impression that he was interested in 'developing' anything at all (let alone serious) between us. He did say keep in touch, like you say to any colleague, and good bye and left. I thought he was gone and I was sure nothing was going to happen with this guy. But 3 months later, I received a message from him that he would like to "catch-up". He called me and we talked for about 2 hours, and connected through Whatsapp and started chatting regularly. Our chats used to be friendly rather than romantic, but he maintained a regular connection. Then one day - out of the blue - he said "I think I feel something between us, do you feel anything?" I was surprised! I told him that I felt attracted too but was shy about initiating. Then we started to talk from a "romantic" perspective, tried to get to know each other better. Turned out he had a long troubled history of failed relationships. But whenever I asked about his past relationships, to understand what goes wrong for him, he would act very cagey. (There were many red flags, but I wasn't aware at the time) He said "Whenever in the past my girlfriends have tried to understand me it has not gone well" One day he told me, there is a previous girlfriend of his who still "chases" him, calls him all the time and leaves messages. Then once again, at another time he said "I have a lot on my mind, I need a break, don't message me, I will contact you when I am ready" (I felt very bad but I tried to ignore it!) After a few weeks he did contact me again, but once again the approach-avoid cycle started. At this time the "strange" element of my story was introduced. He started talking about one of our mutual colleagues, with whom I still work (I will call this colleague J) and his wife!!! He would bring up J and J's wife ALL THE TIME in our conversations. He would want to know what is J up to, when is J on holiday, is J working from home or office. If I was on a call with J did anything interesting happen. Long story short, I came to realise that he has a deep crush on J's wife! Once he made plans for us to meet J and J's wife at a restaurant. He was totally besotted with this woman! "She is so nice" "She is awesome!" "She is amazing" I am fed up of hearing this  He hinted that I should dress up like that. In other ways too he expects me to become like her! Now, I am not sure what to do at this point. Part of me wants to pack and leave. But part of me wants to confront this guy and bring out his unhealthy "obsession" with J's wife and make him realise how stupid he is being. He is clearly an avoidant, in fact an FA to be precise! I know if I brought this up openly he would "react". I care for this guy. I think he is a good person and I want to give this a good shot. What should I do? Any advice, insight, comments would help. Thanks |
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Post by cherrycola on Feb 2, 2022 19:51:44 GMT
Could be triangulation, could be a way to avoid intimacy, if he focuses on her it creates a barrier between you two, either way, not healthy. You can't make anyone do anything, or show them things they are not ready to discover on their own. But there is a middle ground between leaving and a confrontation. That is a mature feelings focused conversation on how this makes you feel. You can use that to judge where to go from there. You are allowed to set a boundary that you are not comfortable with this behavior but he is also allowed to say he doesn't care. Non-violent Communication, Sue Johnson and www.instagram.com/thesecurerelationship/ are great for figuring out how to talk with the focus on you, and not them. Something like "When you talk about J's wife like this, it makes me feel XX, could we talk about this? Try to express curiosity towards his experience. I will warn you us FA's may not want to admit or even know why we are doing it. From my own experience though, in a 17 year relationship as the FA dating an AP, I would find someone else to fall for every 4-5 years like clockwork, I would be all convinced they were so much better then my partner, eventually leaving the relationship. A few months later I would come right on back. Repeat a few times until I started to see why I kept having these issues. I ended the relationship for good and started to put in the work, and still am 2 years later. All of our friends thought our relationship was perfect but they missed all the dynamics under the surface and all the things we were not saying. The thing is, we couldn't say them even if we had wanted to because neither of us had the tools or the self awareness to be able to communicate effectively about our problems. |
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Post by timely on Feb 2, 2022 22:13:48 GMT
Could be triangulation, could be a way to avoid intimacy, if he focuses on her it creates a barrier between you two, either way, not healthy. You can't make anyone do anything, or show them things they are not ready to discover on their own. But there is a middle ground between leaving and a confrontation. That is a mature feelings focused conversation on how this makes you feel. You can use that to judge where to go from there. You are allowed to set a boundary that you are not comfortable with this behavior but he is also allowed to say he doesn't care. Non-violent Communication, Sue Johnson and www.instagram.com/thesecurerelationship/ are great for figuring out how to talk with the focus on you, and not them. Something like "When you talk about J's wife like this, it makes me feel XX, could we talk about this? Try to express curiosity towards his experience. I will warn you us FA's may not want to admit or even know why we are doing it. From my own experience though, in a 17 year relationship as the FA dating an AP, I would find someone else to fall for every 4-5 years like clockwork, I would be all convinced they were so much better then my partner, eventually leaving the relationship. A few months later I would come right on back. Repeat a few times until I started to see why I kept having these issues. I ended the relationship for good and started to put in the work, and still am 2 years later. All of our friends thought our relationship was perfect but they missed all the dynamics under the surface and all the things we were not saying. The thing is, we couldn't say them even if we had wanted to because neither of us had the tools or the self awareness to be able to communicate effectively about our problems. Thanks for replying. I am sorry that you have the FA attachment style, the more I read about this the more I feel like it must be very hard to have this. Your situation seems fascinating, and from my perspective a little concerning I must say. Its not easy trying to make it work with an FA (sorry, no offence). You mention communication, thanks for those suggestions I will check them out. So far communication has been very tough. The minute I bring up any topic related to how we can improve things between us, his avoidance immediately kicks in, and he simply (and politely) shuts me down. I really dont know what to do in this case. How to dven begin a conversation in this direction. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 2, 2022 23:03:38 GMT
I agree with cherrycola, and will add that this crush is likely because the woman is totally unavailable. In a way, that makes her "safe." Never too close, but not too far away either. That's what unaware FAs can handle, or else their nervous systems get kicked all out of whack because they have difficulty emotionally regulating themselves. Are you actually dating? It's a little unclear from your post if you're dating or it's an ambiguous situationship. If you're dating, you can flat out say that it makes you uncomfortable to hear about a married woman all the time. Here is how I'd expect him to answer, though. If he's as entrenched in his insecurity as I suspect, he'll turn it around and make you feel defensive and like you're being insecure about it. If he's a functional adult, which he should be in his mid 40s... he'll approach it with openness and curiosity in caring about your feelings and ask why. This response would be something you can work with. Since he's in his 40s and doesn't sound like he's doing anything at all to work on his issues (and probably doesn't feel like he needs to), you can't change him. You can only think about what you want in your life (is that a serious relationship, potentially marriage, kids?), and if he's at the same life stage as you, wants the same things, and is capable of it. Are your needs being met, is he consistent as a partner? My sense is he won't be a match for you for anything serious, but can handle indefinitely casual or short-term. You can't help someone with attachment unless they come to you, want to discuss it, and are seriously engaged in the conversation and keep following up on it. Those are the only times I've been able to get people to the right information, and then they are self-motivated to take it from there. None of my exes have ever done it. Neither have my family members. Some of my friends have. I've tried to bring up to a few people, have you ever heard of attachment theory, it may resonate with you. I can give you more info if you're interested. Every once in a while someone will be interested but eventually feel it's hard and stop looking into it, because they were never seeking change or healing in the first place. Not ready. People who are ready and are earnestly seeking answers but don't know where to start finding them are the ones who will actually hear you. And again, in my experience, they always had to come to ME. Like, a friend frustrated with dating, feeling bad about themselves, noticing patterns and starting to really wonder if something is wrong with them. I mention attachment styles and a light bulb goes off for them. I had one previously DA friend who is rapidly earning secure this happened with, but only after he had the same conversation with me a few different times over several years. I never pushed, he never remembered I'd brought up attachment style previously, but when he was finally ready to hear it, he REALLY did. It's almost impossible for an insecure attacher to hear this from a romantic, intimate partner. It's simply too close, threatening and scary. It's okay if they started confronting their own issues prior to meeting you and are in the middle of it, but being unaware and resistant is a recipe for being stuck. But you can't date potential or go into a relationship expecting to change someone. It's not a recipe for success. |
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Post by timely on Feb 3, 2022 21:28:29 GMT
I agree with cherrycola, and will add that this crush is likely because the woman is totally unavailable. In a way, that makes her "safe." Never too close, but not too far away either. That's what unaware FAs can handle, or else their nervous systems get kicked all out of whack because they have difficulty emotionally regulating themselves. Are you actually dating? It's a little unclear from your post if you're dating or it's an ambiguous situationship. If you're dating, you can flat out say that it makes you uncomfortable to hear about a married woman all the time. Here is how I'd expect him to answer, though. If he's as entrenched in his insecurity as I suspect, he'll turn it around and make you feel defensive and like you're being insecure about it. If he's a functional adult, which he should be in his mid 40s... he'll approach it with openness and curiosity in caring about your feelings and ask why. This response would be something you can work with. Since he's in his 40s and doesn't sound like he's doing anything at all to work on his issues (and probably doesn't feel like he needs to), you can't change him. You can only think about what you want in your life (is that a serious relationship, potentially marriage, kids?), and if he's at the same life stage as you, wants the same things, and is capable of it. Are your needs being met, is he consistent as a partner? My sense is he won't be a match for you for anything serious, but can handle indefinitely casual or short-term. You can't help someone with attachment unless they come to you, want to discuss it, and are seriously engaged in the conversation and keep following up on it. Those are the only times I've been able to get people to the right information, and then they are self-motivated to take it from there. None of my exes have ever done it. Neither have my family members. Some of my friends have. I've tried to bring up to a few people, have you ever heard of attachment theory, it may resonate with you. I can give you more info if you're interested. Every once in a while someone will be interested but eventually feel it's hard and stop looking into it, because they were never seeking change or healing in the first place. Not ready. People who are ready and are earnestly seeking answers but don't know where to start finding them are the ones who will actually hear you. And again, in my experience, they always had to come to ME. Like, a friend frustrated with dating, feeling bad about themselves, noticing patterns and starting to really wonder if something is wrong with them. I mention attachment styles and a light bulb goes off for them. I had one previously DA friend who is rapidly earning secure this happened with, but only after he had the same conversation with me a few different times over several years. I never pushed, he never remembered I'd brought up attachment style previously, but when he was finally ready to hear it, he REALLY did. It's almost impossible for an insecure attacher to hear this from a romantic, intimate partner. It's simply too close, threatening and scary. It's okay if they started confronting their own issues prior to meeting you and are in the middle of it, but being unaware and resistant is a recipe for being stuck. But you can't date potential or go into a relationship expecting to change someone. It's not a recipe for success. Thank you for reply. Yes you are right, he has this crush on J's wife because she is unavailable. And he is in his 40s but very immature when it comes to relationships. And you are right again ... its only a situationship not really any relationship tbh. Until now I had hope that something more could happen. But with his obsession for J's wife I am not sure how things will progress. I think I am more in doubt because it was a bit strange from her side too. It felt as though she was also ... flirting with him!!! I know there is a high chance that this is just in my mind and I am reading it all wrong and being jealous here but then again, who knows there might be something between them. Some history I dont know about. It was clear that he has met her a few times before and they are on very casual friendly terms. She was super polite and kept addressing him by his first name and talking to him rather intimately, which was really strange from my point of view. I am quite sure J must also be noticing this strange 'intimacy' Hope I am not being paranoid here but I am beginning to think that maybe this guy only initiated a 'situationship' with me to ward off suspicion! If thats the case I am a right fool! You are right, I should think about what I want, and it seems like this guy will never take me seriously. The thought of leaving him makes me upset but I have to get out before I get too involved. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 4, 2022 0:15:07 GMT
There's no reason to think he started paying more attention to you for any reason other than he liked you and was feeling it. You don't need to turn this into a negative about yourself and calling yourself names. He is doing what emotionally unavailable people do, which is react more than anything else, and do what they know how in order to avoid feeling pain or overwhelming shame.
I don't think he's ever going to take your situation seriously, especially not after he still is being flaky after knowing you several years, but I don't think that has to do with you. He's not on the path to take any healthy situation seriously, which is why he's in his mid 40s with a chaotic dating history and still hasn't figured it out. That's not a matter of meeting the right person, it's a matter of wanting to get right within yourself first.
What needs has the idea of him been meeting for you? It may be very useful on your end to introspect a bit about why someone being emotionally unavailable is attractive and difficult to leave. There are always reasons for it, even if they aren't intuitive at first, and that's often where the answers you seek actually are.
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Post by krolle on Feb 4, 2022 1:52:29 GMT
"one day he told me about a previous girlfriend who still calls him and leaves messages etc"
He likely love bombed her, got her addicted with intermittent reinforcement. Then discarded and blamed her for being crazy lol. I joke....but only slightly.....
This will be you in 3 months if you continue with him.
Get out, get out now.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 4, 2022 2:52:13 GMT
"one day he told me about a previous girlfriend who still calls him and leaves messages etc" He likely love bombed her, got her addicted with intermittent reinforcement. Then discarded and blamed her for being crazy lol. I joke....but only slightly..... This will be you in 3 months if you continue with him. Get out, get out now. It is true, though. I had a guy once tell me all his exes ended up suffocatingly obsessed with him but he liked that I was different, and within a few weeks he acted totally off the wall unbalanced after love bombing me. Learned a lot about red flags when people say things like that from that experience! |
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Post by anne12 on Feb 4, 2022 3:29:03 GMT
timely Do you know how to listen to your intuition ? There are some internal and external signals you can become aware of: - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/26262/Bodily, cognetive, heart intuition - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/25511/It can also be different for each attatcmentstyle how they are able to feel their intuition. E.g. The desorganised cant always rely on the signals from their body ect. There are different techniques you can use to help you weather you are avoidant, desorganised or ambivalent. When to end a relationship - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/26251/“He hinted that I should dress up like that. In other ways too he expects me to become like her!” - to me he sounds controling or that he could become controling…which for me is a Big read flag…
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Post by krolle on Feb 4, 2022 9:25:16 GMT
The only thing I will add though is we don't know how insecure OP is. I.e what is empirical reality.
If quotes are literal/accurate......get out, get out now. Unaware FA in his 40's. Getting involved with him is a one way ticket on an emotional rollercoaster who's tracks never got completed....Unless, as Alexandra said, he's shown a lot of signs he's fed up why his dating life stinks and is looking for somebody to nudge him in the right direction.
Even then it's a gamble..... I'v been aware and trying feverishly to fix my FA for several years now. And when Elderley female friends try set me up with their daughters my age I say "that would not bode well for them". And politely decline.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 14:11:20 GMT
He has no boundaries and it sounds like you don't either.
Besotted with a married woman, still exes in the picture, and you're looking past all that with a hopeful outcome?
You'll get exactly what you pay for, and then you will pay some more.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 14:17:11 GMT
timely, let me know if you want an additional blunt opinion, I'll offer it. Otherwise, best of luck!
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 4, 2022 14:27:51 GMT
I would suggest…and I know this is very, very difficult for an AP or AP leaning individual to do….turning all these questions about him around and start to really focus on you. How do you feel? Do you feel respected? Cared for? Loved? Safe? Is there open communication? Or..do you feel like you are on a roller coaster?…sometimes….happy but mostly feeling fear and questioning things? Do you find yourself wishing for the man you initially met but finding it harder to get back that attention? We can certainly help you navigate some of what is going on but the most important piece of this is to return your questions to yourself. Be your own best advocate…if this isn’t working now…and he isn’t interested in changing his dynamic….then is this really suiting you?
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 4, 2022 14:29:44 GMT
timely , let me know if you want an additional blunt opinion, I'll offer it. Otherwise, best of luck! Sometimes we need those…I know I do…..🙂 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 14:36:27 GMT
timely , let me know if you want an additional blunt opinion, I'll offer it. Otherwise, best of luck! Sometimes we need those…I know I do…..🙂 Sometimes bullet points can dispel the hope that an AP can find in anything else that is said, and I have a couple of bullet points that may or may not throw cold water on this. I think that a person in such a situation can actually be enabled by being given the information they seek, because they take information in and bargain with every point... "yeah I can handle that.... ok well then I can work with that.... he's a good guy so I don't think ThAT applies..." etc etc. Anyway, timely, blunt opinion (just an opinion) available here but I won't be responsible for how you feel about it once you've asked for it, I really won't. I mean no harm but these situations are messy and capable of great harm, better in the form of an opinion you don't like than an outcome you regret. |
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