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Post by seeking on Feb 3, 2022 13:55:25 GMT
My friendships seem to be coming up for "review" lately.
I'm usually someone who can maintain long-term friendships through a lot of ups and downs and changes and honesty.
I have a friend - the one in question - who I adore. But I know she's woefully co-dependent.
Anyway, a couple years ago - I was in PTSD and crises a lot with my abusive (narc, likely) ex. She was one of those friends who tried to get me to "think positive" and didn't really seem to believe what was going on - as if I were making it more than it was. I was trying to prepare for the event that we'd go to court. And she called me one day and was like, "Listen. You're NOT going to court. Get that out of your head."
A few months later, I was in court for 2 years, and it was the most horrible thing of my life. I also got Covid during that time, had to move. And I kind of kept to myself. The only thing I could talk about at that time was all the stress and drama and I didn't want to burden friends with it, but some friends still stuck around and supported me anyway.
She seemed to have dropped off.
Not that she's that type of person - although, one time after coming back from court, I was really wound up and she called and I started telling her, and she turned the whole thing around to her - and what if she was in that situation and literally thought it through out loud with me on the phone (she also has an ex who is a bit nuts).
So I really didn't expect her to support me. And just had to put my head down and go through what I went through.
This doesn't make her a *bad friend* in my book. I just accepted it and figured we'd connect when we could.
Well, life being what it is and me being a single working mom with a kid on the spectrum, in a pandemic, with no support (she - by contrast - has child support, lives with her parents who help her and doesn't work) - it took a while for me to reach back out. A few times I'd text her on holidays and she'd text back the same. Then she recently texted me something about our kids (maybe a few months ago).
And finally, I reached out to her by email as I felt like I was coming up for air and sort of said - if there's been a rupture, and any repair work we need to do, I'd love to reconnect again.
But here's the "kicker" (I guess, if you could call it that)- I wrote that I wanted to connect, but didn't have time at the moment. I said I didn't want another year to pass but that I was launching a new web site.
She called me on it.
Fair enough.
I looked back at why I said it that way and now I'm not sure what to do. I want the focus to be on re-connecting. I will admit, I do feel a little abandoned by her. And while I'm not coming to her with that - it's in there.
So I said "if there's been a rupture, I'm willing to do repair (just that I wasn't like immediately available). I think I couched it in that because in the past - and I've known this person for years - she is someone who is like "Let's not talk on the phone, let's get together." I haven't even had a few hours to myself. I can't prioritize trying to find childcare to meet right now. And often, she'll say "let's spend the WHOLE day together." so it feels overwhelming to me. So I think that's why I said 'not now." Because I figured, from past experience, she'd go - Okay, when? And i'm in the middle of launching a new web site right now and business.
So she spent 99% of her response calling me on that and saying I'm not available. Which may be true - I'm not available for an regular in-person friendship right now. But I talk to lots of my friends on the phone - and have for years. And I want to give myself credit for even peaking my head out admit *how much I have going on* to say hello and wish her and her son well and express my desire to reconnect.
But I haven't been able to write her back - at all.
Here's what she said "I am perplexed by your mentioning “a rupture”. There’s nothing mysterious going on. You simply state you are too busy to talk or get together repeatedly and this has now gone on for years at this point. You keep saying you will have time eventually. You even start this email off with that expressed feeling stating you don’t have time these days otherwise you’d call. No rupture (on my end). Our lack of speaking and seeing each other falls on you and your priorities. It’s fine if other priorities are more pressing for you…. Just don’t think there’s anything going on other than you have not chosen to make time for me, period. I hold no grudge. None at all. Just stating fact. If you sense something, look to your own heart, maybe there’s something there for you."
I haven't known how to respond. I shut down. But I'm trying to stay open.
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Post by cherrycola on Feb 3, 2022 22:28:23 GMT
Is it possible you are projecting? If the roles were reversed, how would you take a friend always saying they wanted to see you, but never finding the time? Not saying you did anything wrong with prioritizing your life, but people make time for things that are important to them. I have a friend like this and I just have stopped reaching out and feel like I'm not that important to her, but I wouldn't be opposed if she were to start to make an effort to reconnect, I just wouldn't lead the charge.
Sometimes people miss the mark on trying to support us and what looks like support to them comes across as unhelpful or even invalidating. She may be thinking she reached out to you, you didn't seem interested and so she just let it drop. We have to learn to tell them what support looks like to us. Only then can they make a decision of if they can offer that to us or not.
You could bring up these feelings with her that you were feeling weird, or since you want to focus on re-connecting, you could do just that. I know that feeling of people wanting your entire day and you only have the energy or time for a small thing, so this would be a good place to set a boundary of a small 1-2 hour window. Is there somewhere you could go with your kid maybe? Part of you may feel bad that you know she wants X but you can only give her Y but part of you may also feel really good when you set a healthy boundary.
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Post by timely on Feb 3, 2022 22:51:29 GMT
My friendships seem to be coming up for "review" lately. I'm usually someone who can maintain long-term friendships through a lot of ups and downs and changes and honesty. I have a friend - the one in question - who I adore. But I know she's woefully co-dependent. Anyway, a couple years ago - I was in PTSD and crises a lot with my abusive (narc, likely) ex. She was one of those friends who tried to get me to "think positive" and didn't really seem to believe what was going on - as if I were making it more than it was. I was trying to prepare for the event that we'd go to court. And she called me one day and was like, "Listen. You're NOT going to court. Get that out of your head." A few months later, I was in court for 2 years, and it was the most horrible thing of my life. I also got Covid during that time, had to move. And I kind of kept to myself. The only thing I could talk about at that time was all the stress and drama and I didn't want to burden friends with it, but some friends still stuck around and supported me anyway. She seemed to have dropped off. Not that she's that type of person - although, one time after coming back from court, I was really wound up and she called and I started telling her, and she turned the whole thing around to her - and what if she was in that situation and literally thought it through out loud with me on the phone (she also has an ex who is a bit nuts). So I really didn't expect her to support me. And just had to put my head down and go through what I went through. This doesn't make her a *bad friend* in my book. I just accepted it and figured we'd connect when we could. Well, life being what it is and me being a single working mom with a kid on the spectrum, in a pandemic, with no support (she - by contrast - has child support, lives with her parents who help her and doesn't work) - it took a while for me to reach back out. A few times I'd text her on holidays and she'd text back the same. Then she recently texted me something about our kids (maybe a few months ago). And finally, I reached out to her by email as I felt like I was coming up for air and sort of said - if there's been a rupture, and any repair work we need to do, I'd love to reconnect again. But here's the "kicker" (I guess, if you could call it that)- I wrote that I wanted to connect, but didn't have time at the moment. I said I didn't want another year to pass but that I was launching a new web site. She called me on it. Fair enough. I looked back at why I said it that way and now I'm not sure what to do. I want the focus to be on re-connecting. I will admit, I do feel a little abandoned by her. And while I'm not coming to her with that - it's in there. So I said "if there's been a rupture, I'm willing to do repair (just that I wasn't like immediately available). I think I couched it in that because in the past - and I've known this person for years - she is someone who is like "Let's not talk on the phone, let's get together." I haven't even had a few hours to myself. I can't prioritize trying to find childcare to meet right now. And often, she'll say "let's spend the WHOLE day together." so it feels overwhelming to me. So I think that's why I said 'not now." Because I figured, from past experience, she'd go - Okay, when? And i'm in the middle of launching a new web site right now and business. So she spent 99% of her response calling me on that and saying I'm not available. Which may be true - I'm not available for an regular in-person friendship right now. But I talk to lots of my friends on the phone - and have for years. And I want to give myself credit for even peaking my head out admit *how much I have going on* to say hello and wish her and her son well and express my desire to reconnect. But I haven't been able to write her back - at all. Here's what she said "I am perplexed by your mentioning “a rupture”. There’s nothing mysterious going on. You simply state you are too busy to talk or get together repeatedly and this has now gone on for years at this point. You keep saying you will have time eventually. You even start this email off with that expressed feeling stating you don’t have time these days otherwise you’d call. No rupture (on my end). Our lack of speaking and seeing each other falls on you and your priorities. It’s fine if other priorities are more pressing for you…. Just don’t think there’s anything going on other than you have not chosen to make time for me, period. I hold no grudge. None at all. Just stating fact. If you sense something, look to your own heart, maybe there’s something there for you." I haven't known how to respond. I shut down. But I'm trying to stay open. Sorry to hear about all you've been through and on top of it your predicament with your friend. I think right now you are feeling a little attacked by your friend's response, and your reaction is completely understandable. Its as if your friend is blaming you for every thing when she is actually the one who couldn't be by your side to give the right support when you needed. Well, most people either want to use you as a sounding board to rant and share their own frustrations that they are going through, or just want to encourage you to ignore your problems and avoid and live in ignorance. In my experience its incredibly hard, almost impossible, to find people who can be empathic, understanding, supporting and caring all at the same time. But the good thing is that you tried to make things better between you two. I guess there are some point here to consider - 1. Maybe your friend is not capable of showing support to the level that you are expecting, so you have to learn to adjust your expectations and accept your friend the way she is - whatever half-good friendship she is offering is all there is. Get used to it please. 2. This seems hard, but try to be very clear and upfront with her. Describe to her what you expect from her. Like say - "I am happy to listen to your problems, but when I share my issues or problems please can you pay attention to my problem first and just listen before you suggest a solution ir before we move to other topic" Maybe with this kind of clear and open communication she can learn how to react next time. 3. Think about her situation slightly differently. You are an independent working person, looking after your child without being dependant on anyone, whereas your friend is dependant on others for survival. Suppose you were to swap places with her, and lose all your independance and rely on others to provide for yourself and your child, would you have liked that? I am guessing no. So while your situation is tough with all that you have to do, I'd say, you're still in a better place. Try to feel sympathy or empathy for your friend. 4. The "think positive" problem you mentioned, is a major issue of "toxic positivity" that a lot of people suffer from. These people almost force others to remain positive no matter what and ignore actual problems. While I think this type of blind positivity is actually very negative, we must understand that this is a crucial coping mechanism for some people. It maybe a somewhat immature or delusional way of thinking, but we all have some bad coping mechanisms. Like for example you said, "I kept to myself" "I didn't want to burden friends" these statements are an indicator that you might be having some issues trusting others. This shows that you might be using "avoidance" as your coping mechanism. To you it might seem like you are doing a favour by hiding your problems or keeping to yourself, but to others it might seem like you are not trusting them enough (Forgive me if I am reading you wrong, I am just trying to make a point that we all think differently and what seems right to you may seem totally wrong to someone else and vice-versa) 5. Now that your intentions are in the right place, try to make time for your friend, whatever realistically you can offer. Like, try to meet her half-way. Say you would like to meet for coffee for an hour or so, rather than spending a whole day together. See what she says. If she insists on soending all day,you politely say "I would love to but I'm afraid right now I can't, but lets meet for coffee atleast we can say hello in person" Hope this helps  Good luck! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2022 23:41:10 GMT
usefulista.com/nurture-your-female-friendships/I have friends with similar lifestyles and needs, maturity levels, and values. We don't run into conflict, or old family roles with each other. It's true that friends need to align in terms of the time needed to have a quality friendship. I am a single mother, sole support of my family, and my bff is that as well. We are both avoidant but very intimate and connected in our relationship... the avoidant part means we don't need a lot of time and don't resent being apart because we connect regularly by phone, we are both very secure in the comfort and availability of the friendship and are there for each other at the drop of a hat. She's my best friend and we understand each other like no one has before, for either of us. We share some similar life experiences and many very different ones, so our bond isn't 'getting' what the other person's life has been like, or both having a crap ex, etc... it's about who we are today and what we prioritize and value. We are independent but very close. There were times when the main bond was a similar history/life situation and that doesn't make the best friendships. It creates some understanding and belonging but didn't evolve as I evolved. Some friends require more in person quality time to feel that bond. Different types of people. Maybe some of this helps, maybe not. I think the article is a good read.
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Post by seeking on Feb 4, 2022 1:31:55 GMT
Is it possible you are projecting? If the roles were reversed, how would you take a friend always saying they wanted to see you, but never finding the time? Not saying you did anything wrong with prioritizing your life, but people make time for things that are important to them. I have a friend like this and I just have stopped reaching out and feel like I'm not that important to her, but I wouldn't be opposed if she were to start to make an effort to reconnect, I just wouldn't lead the charge. To be honest, no. I'm sooooo crazy busy. I can go a year and not hear from a friend, and if I reach out and they're still there, I'm fine. I am not a "see you" friend type. I'm a single mom who is a blur and if I can find time on a weekend, I will sit down and give you my attention (I don't do multitasking catch-up while driving type things). If I knew my friend was going through what I went through in court for 2 years, I would totally understand. There was no choice about making time or not. It was sheer skin of my teeth survival mode for years. |
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Post by seeking on Feb 4, 2022 1:33:37 GMT
Sometimes people miss the mark on trying to support us and what looks like support to them comes across as unhelpful or even invalidating. She may be thinking she reached out to you, you didn't seem interested and so she just let it drop. We have to learn to tell them what support looks like to us. Only then can they make a decision of if they can offer that to us or not. Yep, I didn't ask for her support. I didn't expect it. |
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Post by seeking on Feb 4, 2022 1:35:50 GMT
You could bring up these feelings with her that you were feeling weird, or since you want to focus on re-connecting, you could do just that. I know that feeling of people wanting your entire day and you only have the energy or time for a small thing, so this would be a good place to set a boundary of a small 1-2 hour window. Is there somewhere you could go with your kid maybe? Part of you may feel bad that you know she wants X but you can only give her Y but part of you may also feel really good when you set a healthy boundary. Yes, I have to have really good boundaries with her. I think my "Hey, I'd like to reconnect but not this week" was messy. I have windows and then it's like I'm in an undertow again for weeks. And unless someone lives the way I do, it can seem inconsistent. And she has a very AP attachment style, gets very cloying and clingy and I tend to be FA with her. I thought my reaching out to ask if there was a rupture and to say I'm open to repair was vulnerable and honest, and real, and that she'd respond well? |
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Post by seeking on Feb 4, 2022 1:40:22 GMT
usefulista.com/nurture-your-female-friendships/I have friends with similar lifestyles and needs, maturity levels, and values. We don't run into conflict, or old family roles with each other. It's true that friends need to align in terms of the time needed to have a quality friendship. I am a single mother, sole support of my family, and my bff is that as well. We are both avoidant but very intimate and connected in our relationship... the avoidant part means we don't need a lot of time and don't resent being apart because we connect regularly by phone, we are both very secure in the comfort and availability of the friendship and are there for each other at the drop of a hat. She's my best friend and we understand each other like no one has before, for either of us. Thanks for the link. Yes, this is how I am in most of my friendships. Connect regularly (or when we can) by phone. Most of my friends are single moms. This person is - but again, doesn't work (i do), has a kid in school (mine has special needs and is homeschooled), lives with her parents, gets child support (I live only and am our provider). Etc. The friend who things just ended with was also a single mom but lived off her dad's money. It can be like night and day if you're not someone who gets what it takes to support you and your child alone. And then be in court for years with an abusive ex and his new GF and have health issues, etc. I have friends who are gay men, or single guys, or married women who were phenomenally more supportive and seemed to get it. I love that you have that kind of a friend - I have one of those too - while she hasn't been in court, she's largely in the same boat as me, and while we are both so busy (and live blocks away) it's hard to see each other and even find time to talk but we are there for one another. She never holds anything against me around not communicating or getting back to me and me the same for her. |
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Post by seeking on Feb 4, 2022 1:43:40 GMT
We share some similar life experiences and many very different ones, so our bond isn't 'getting' what the other person's life has been like, or both having a crap ex, etc... it's about who we are today and what we prioritize and value. We are independent but very close. There were times when the main bond was a similar history/life situation and that doesn't make the best friendships. It creates some understanding and belonging but didn't evolve as I evolved. Some friends require more in person quality time to feel that bond. Different types of people. Maybe some of this helps, maybe not. I think the article is a good read. I guess I don't mean "get it" like they have to have first hand experience. But I think it's feeling seen, maybe? Like if you're someone who has a narcissistic abusive ex who is trying to destroy you and your kid for 2 years and you work and are single and your kid has special needs, you might take more of a "hey, how are you doing" stance then a "Hmph, I haven't heard from YOU in a long time." Kind of a stance. KWIM? So not like you have to "get it" but I think it's just feeling seen kind of get it. Like "oh, that's kind of a lot you're juggling there." Or "I went through a very hard period last year and I know it was difficult to even find a time to shower never mind spend a day with a friend" so that it saves me having to kind of explain that if someone's friend with me they might get that. |
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Post by seeking on Feb 4, 2022 1:45:27 GMT
Sorry to hear about all you've been through and on top of it your predicament with your friend. I think right now you are feeling a little attacked by your friend's response, and your reaction is completely understandable. Its as if your friend is blaming you for every thing when she is actually the one who couldn't be by your side to give the right support when you needed. Bingo. This is exactly how it feels. Thank you for putting words to this. I think this is what caused me to shut down and now not know what to say/do. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 1:51:05 GMT
usefulista.com/nurture-your-female-friendships/I have friends with similar lifestyles and needs, maturity levels, and values. We don't run into conflict, or old family roles with each other. It's true that friends need to align in terms of the time needed to have a quality friendship. I am a single mother, sole support of my family, and my bff is that as well. We are both avoidant but very intimate and connected in our relationship... the avoidant part means we don't need a lot of time and don't resent being apart because we connect regularly by phone, we are both very secure in the comfort and availability of the friendship and are there for each other at the drop of a hat. She's my best friend and we understand each other like no one has before, for either of us. Thanks for the link. Yes, this is how I am in most of my friendships. Connect regularly (or when we can) by phone. Most of my friends are single moms. This person is - but again, doesn't work (i do), has a kid in school (mine has special needs and is homeschooled), lives with her parents, gets child support (I live only and am our provider). Etc. The friend who things just ended with was also a single mom but lived off her dad's money. It can be like night and day if you're not someone who gets what it takes to support you and your child alone. And then be in court for years with an abusive ex and his new GF and have health issues, etc. I have friends who are gay men, or single guys, or married women who were phenomenally more supportive and seemed to get it. I love that you have that kind of a friend - I have one of those too - while she hasn't been in court, she's largely in the same boat as me, and while we are both so busy (and live blocks away) it's hard to see each other and even find time to talk but we are there for one another. She never holds anything against me around not communicating or getting back to me and me the same for her. Right, and as a successfuk breadwinner, and a present mother, and actively engaged in hobby and my relationship also- I DO have a full life - my bff is the same. We text and cal and check in and send love but won't see each other for months... but if either of us has a sorrow, or something we just need a friend for, we make the time. It is beautiful. I cannot and will not be guilted for the life that I choose, and wouldn't do that to my friend. On the other hand, it can simply be true, like your friend said, you don't have time and that's on you. It is. But that doesn't make you a bad friend, it makes you not the kind of friend she may prefer, having more time for herself than you do. Its ok that your priorities are what they are. It's ok that your real priorities mean you don't have time to meet. That happens. It can work between the right people but sometimes people don't align. So maybe she didn't mean guilt- maybe she's just saying it like it is. A phone call is better than email for this. Written communication SUCKS for any emotional topics. |
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Post by seeking on Feb 4, 2022 1:53:12 GMT
And thanks, Timely, I read the rest of what you wrote and it helps.
But I'm not sure how to open up again after what you said - that's exactly how it felt. Now I have to go and make it better - ie., I'm the one with little time, yep. She's the one who wasn't really there. So aren't we even and start over? I don't want to start off on the foot of - how can I make it right FOR YOU.
her telling me to "look into my own heart" was a little off putting.
Either we drop it, and move on, or we can talk about things but the truth is, I still don't have a ton of availability but I'd love to be able to reach out when I can (and maybe I say just that)
But I get the distinct sense that she takes my unavailability personally or like I'm not making time for her. Again, most days, I'm lucky if I shower. So I feel like it's saying a lot if I'm taking the time to sit down and send you an email or call you. Not that that has to be good enough for her, or she has to accept it. But this is me. Take it or leave it.
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Post by seeking on Feb 4, 2022 1:56:33 GMT
Right, and as a successfuk breadwinner, and a present mother, and actively engaged in hobby and my relationship also- I DO have a full life - my bff is the same. We text and cal and check in and send love but won't see each other for months... but if either of us has a sorrow, or something we just need a friend for, we make the time. It is beautiful. I cannot and will not be guilted for the life that I choose, and wouldn't do that to my friend. On the other hand, it can simply be true, like your friend said, you don't have time and that's on you. It is. But that doesn't make you a bad friend, it makes you not the kind of friend she may prefer, having more time for herself than you do. Its ok that your priorities are what they are. It's ok that your real priorities mean you don't have time to meet. That happens. It can work between the right people but sometimes people don't align. So maybe she didn't mean guilt- maybe she's just saying it like it is. A phone call is better than email for this. Written communication SUCKS for any emotional topics. Yeah, I wouldn't be writing her back necessarily. I just haven't been able to say anything and it's been a month - b/c I just started a new business and a homeschool coop and a dealt with several personal crises, etc. And her response didn't exactly feel like an invitation. I have a kid and no child care. She has live-in grandparents and her kid is in school. We live 45 mins from each other. Grabbing coffee isn't an easy option right now. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2022 1:59:59 GMT
We share some similar life experiences and many very different ones, so our bond isn't 'getting' what the other person's life has been like, or both having a crap ex, etc... it's about who we are today and what we prioritize and value. We are independent but very close. There were times when the main bond was a similar history/life situation and that doesn't make the best friendships. It creates some understanding and belonging but didn't evolve as I evolved. Some friends require more in person quality time to feel that bond. Different types of people. Maybe some of this helps, maybe not. I think the article is a good read. I guess I don't mean "get it" like they have to have first hand experience. But I think it's feeling seen, maybe? Like if you're someone who has a narcissistic abusive ex who is trying to destroy you and your kid for 2 years and you work and are single and your kid has special needs, you might take more of a "hey, how are you doing" stance then a "Hmph, I haven't heard from YOU in a long time." Kind of a stance. KWIM? So not like you have to "get it" but I think it's just feeling seen kind of get it. Like "oh, that's kind of a lot you're juggling there." Or "I went through a very hard period last year and I know it was difficult to even find a time to shower never mind spend a day with a friend" so that it saves me having to kind of explain that if someone's friend with me they might get that. No i know what you mean- I agree with you. I'm just saying that in the past I had friends who were in the same boat so to speak and that was the basis for the bond- but it didn't evolve. Just throwing that out there. Contrasting with now I have friends that are COMPATIBLE, not just commiserating. |
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Post by seeking on Feb 4, 2022 2:06:46 GMT
No i know what you mean- I agree with you. I'm just saying that in the past I had friends who were in the same boat so to speak and that was the basis for the bond- but it didn't evolve. Just throwing that out there. Contrasting with now I have friends that are COMPATIBLE, not just commiserating. Totally agree! The friend who things just ended with had a lot of the same stuff going on and she still didn't really *see* me - she compared herself to me a lot (which is never fun) but I just want to be seen by people. I see other people - like them and the context they are in and the big picture. I just ask the same in return. |
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