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Post by mrob on Mar 12, 2022 6:03:30 GMT
You did warn it was long! After all that, I suggest you have a look at your own attachment style. After all that deception, the fact that you’re still pursuing says more about you than it does him.
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Post by cherrycola on Mar 12, 2022 8:43:24 GMT
While it sounds like he put you through the ringer and anyone would have reacted poorly, I am not sure a secure person would have let this go on for so long and gotten to the point it did. As others have said, it would be best to examine your own attachment style here.
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 12, 2022 10:54:52 GMT
A couple of quick comments…first…I agree with anne12 that this is the wrong section (I removed my other post so that this can easily be moved). This forum is intended for those who identify themselves as DA to speak to each other…so at least this post should move. Second…I agree with the others about examining your own attachment style. Falling for someone you do not know indicates there is projection/fantasy bonding going on. I recognize it because that is exactly what happened to me in my last relationship. I knew nothing about B yet I was already smitten. I have friends who are secure and none of them would have stayed with someone who had a second “girlfriend”. They would have viewed that as a breach of trust and would have simply moved on knowing that they deserved someone who was consistent, communicative and trustworthy. Another red flag is his porn/fantasy addiction…..that highlights that he is more interested in how things could be versus how they really are….and porn addiction is very hard to break. I know how it can feel special to be told something that a person has not been able to share with someone else…..that happened with my last FA boyfriend…..but all it meant was he felt comfortable to share it in the moment…it did not mean (like I had hoped) that our relationship was so different from his others that he was going to have a different outcome with me (and in the end…we didn’t). I get the sense that the 2 of you are working off of hope and projection and fantasy instead of sitting with each other and having a conversation that asks…what do you want from this relationship? Where do you see this headed? If he gives you squishy responses….then you know that he is basing this on a fear of losing you versus a true desire to move forward in a committed relationship. I agree that it probably makes sense for each of you to look into individual therapy with a therapist familiar in attachment theory. |
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jc103
New Member
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Post by jc103 on Mar 12, 2022 16:19:12 GMT
A couple of quick comments…first…I agree with anne12 that this is the wrong section (I removed my other post so that this can easily be moved). This forum is intended for those who identify themselves as DA to speak to each other…so at least this post should move. Second…I agree with the others about examining your own attachment style. Falling for someone you do not know indicates there is projection/fantasy bonding going on. I recognize it because that is exactly what happened to me in my last relationship. I knew nothing about B yet I was already smitten. I have friends who are secure and none of them would have stayed with someone who had a second “girlfriend”. They would have viewed that as a breach of trust and would have simply moved on knowing that they deserved someone who was consistent, communicative and trustworthy. Another red flag is his porn/fantasy addiction…..that highlights that he is more interested in how things could be versus how they really are….and porn addiction is very hard to break. I know how it can feel special to be told something that a person has not been able to share with someone else…..that happened with my last FA boyfriend…..but all it meant was he felt comfortable to share it in the moment…it did not mean (like I had hoped) that our relationship was so different from his others that he was going to have a different outcome with me (and in the end…we didn’t). I get the sense that the 2 of you are working off of hope and projection and fantasy instead of sitting with each other and having a conversation that asks…what do you want from this relationship? Where do you see this headed? If he gives you squishy responses….then you know that he is basing this on a fear of losing you versus a true desire to move forward in a committed relationship. I agree that it probably makes sense for each of you to look into individual therapy with a therapist familiar in attachment theory. Most definitely secure but I wasn't looking for a relationship, I was fine with a casual friends with benefits situation as I wanted to be independent following my last long term relationship. Knowing that this guy wasn't emotionally ready for a real relationship, we hung out and did many things together with our kids, and together alone. I only found out about this 4 weeks ago, so the entire time I was being decieved. I did question him about not going to his place, but respected his choice even though I know know it was a disingenuous boundary. It wasn't until I stumbled apon attachment theory that things started to make sense. I think its possible to love someone but respect that they are not ready for a real reciprocal loving relationship, after all I got to know the real avoidant, emotionally distant person. I knew he didn't want to be this way, and he couldn't understand why I loved and cared about him so much when he was such a pain in the ass. I just saw through that and supported him with being there even when at times I felt him desperately trying to push me away. I understood enough about Pychology to know that's a technique that people who are depressed, anxious, avoidant use to stay isolated. I was never mad, and never tried to control the situation, letting it go at a pace at which he was comfortable with. We both had/have genuine feelings for each other and our Fwb situation was never ever just about sex. Of course I brought up the future every once in a while, but it was evident that he was very much so not ready for change. I believe you cant force someone to change, but you can be there for them and let them know that you are aware of their own insecurities and issues that are holding them back from living a life they deserve. This guy has likely never dated or been involved with someone who was okay with being with someone who saw him for who he truly was, and was willing to let him go at a pace which was comfortable for him to allow him to actually trust them. Whether that was months or my case years. He was already in a DA/AP (assuming AP) relationship when I met him, but obviously never disclosed that, Im sure he thought I would just be someome who was in and out of his life quickly. He could have stopped talking to me at any time. I didn't follow him to work, or show up at his house, or even call him. Most of our communication was through text, and it would have been easy for him to Block me. But he always ended up responding and making plans to get together, again.. more than just sex. If I could ask, when you talk about fantasies, for a DA I Read that they can live in a porn/fantasy world because they are afraid of allowing themselves to get that close to a person as it requires vulnerability, something in which they are not comfortable giving freely. It doesn't mean they don't want to, they just dont think it is achievable because of their own insecurities... so how is that a bad thing they share it with you, and why is that a red flag? I also did the same with him, and it was liberating rather than suffocating. I guess I was looking for an answer as to whether or not I didn't activate his fear of abandonment wound through all of this, as that would mean he actually subconsciously learned that I am trust worthy and do not love with conditions, which ultimately isn't that the end game if you are insecure, to find someone who you can feel secure with? In addition doing all the extra work to heal your past trauma, and now I am aware for him to take an indepth look at his attachment style to stop repeating the same destructive pattern. People like me exist out in the world, I just stumbled apon someone who I know would be this amazing partner but was not ready to change. I wasn't blinded by love, I knew all the red flags, my friends knew the red flags, my dog even picked up the red flags. But just because they have red flags doesn't mean they are incapable of change and worth real connection and worthy of a unwavering dedication. I wasn't waiting for him in a sense where I put my life on hold, I continue to live a super full and meaningful life and never isolated myself from my friends. Love is funny, I cant help who I love. But now that everything is out and he is self aware / going to therapy, I have a decision to make in terms of what boundaries and expectations I will need to have to either move forward with him in terms of a actual real relationship or if it remains a platonic friendship. If we decide to pursue a relationship, trust from my end needs to be rebuilt. I don't keep any of these thoughts to myself, he knows exactly how I feel. His responses are not squishy, they are almost cold and mostly factual. There is no mask anymore, which he did obviously have, I just saw through It. I asked him to not be anyone else but himself while he goes through the process of therapy. He has been honoring that, but I can tell it's not comfortable for him, and he has even stated that he is anxious and nervous the few times we have seen each other since this all went down. I wasn't aware this was solely for DAs, I thought it was for also people who support DAs! I will remove my post! Thanks for all the feedback! This community is super helpful. |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 12, 2022 17:33:48 GMT
So…to answer your question….activation or deactivation resides solely inside the insecure person. Thus…you can provide all kinds of securish behaviors and still he will deactivate or activate based on his own internal signals. That is why any change must reside solely within him. I know Hollywood makes it seem like the partner has a huge influence…but in all actuality…the partner is just mirroring what the insecure person is used to. In fact….I have heard many stories of insecures leaving secures because over time the relationship lacks the rollercoaster of emotions that is so familiar and as such…the lack of any activation or deactivation is interpreted to be boredom. My only advice is to stop trying to analyze him….stop trying to figure out if what you are doing will result in him deactivating. That type of pretzel.ing does not work. Be who you are…let him be who he is. If you are fine with things being non defined and casual…that might appeal to him for a while. But given his history….unless he chooses to get to the root of what causes his internal activation or deactivation…and speak to them honestly with you…then I would not count on this ending differently then his other ones.
I guess I was looking for an answer as to whether or not I didn't activate his fear of abandonment wound through all of this, as that would mean he actually subconsciously learned that I am trust worthy and do not love with conditions, which ultimately isn't that the end game if you are insecure, to find someone who you can feel secure with? In addition doing all the extra work to heal your past trauma, and now I am aware for him to take an indepth look at his attachment style to stop repeating the same destructive pattern.
This is in a lot of books….that an insecure should simply look for a secure person to break the pattern. But this lacks an understanding of why the pattern exists in the first place and how powerful of a force the “familiar” is (meaning repeating the pattern over and over and over again). In order to better understand what is familiar to him…you have to understand his childhood…you have to understand his earliest relationships to his mom, dad, grandparents and siblings. You have to understand that his lens of what is safe is different from yours. He may only feel truly safe in fantasy…thus porn is safe…fantasy is safe. He may have developed a technique of seeing the potential in someone…grasping hold of that and when cracks start to appear…to go and search again for another potential. Books are great as a starting point to understand where you as a person fall in the attachment spectrum…but it isn’t a good resource when it comes to getting to the root of another person. It is good for seeing red flags…but does not really provide the nuances that exist in each person’s story. Therapy will be key…and I recommend ansomatic experiencing therapist…he can look that up….but trauma gets stored in the body and an SE therapist works on the root of it. Therapy also teaches a person who has learned to only feel safe in potential and fantasy how to see through both of those and actually tell if someone is truly safe.
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Post by alexandra on Mar 12, 2022 20:13:39 GMT
You can repost your original post on the regular dismissive avoidant board. The difference is those are for questions about people with other attachment styles than your own (where people typically ask about partners), and the support boards are for questions and support for your own attachment style (focusing entirely on your own healing and questions about your own behaviors). I didn't read the original post since it has been deleted, but the gist of what I read in the responses is you're hoping he can stop deactivating because you're a stable and trusted presence, and you're wondering if it's worth sticking around for a relationship after bad behavior on his part that diluted your trust in him now that he's starting therapy? I agree with everything tnr9 is saying. I've been on both sides of this... dating avoidants who seem to or claim to want to change, and also having an insecure attachment style myself and actually earning secure. Which means that through a LOT of experience I both know what it entails to overcome those issues and heal, and generally know when someone is earnestly trying to change versus when they say whatever in words but run around in repetitive circles without much growth when you observe actual actions. Having secure attachments to other people is great to model what that can be like, but it in itself does not recondition your nervous system or heal your trauma. That's all very internal, can take a couple years or more of self-motivated work, and is necessary to really change and show up for (and stay interested in) a fully secure relationship. The decision about staying friends or trying to be more is entirely about whether or not your own needs and life stage goals are being met by the situation. Forget about potential, just look at the situation actually in front of you. If it never changed from here, is it what you want? You can't expect him to change, maybe he will and maybe he won't. If all he's capable of is a casual situation, you may still have trust issues if he doesn't change, is that what you want out of a partner? To hold on for potential and view yourself as the secure presence in his life that should help him on his journey through your support is actually co-dependent, and that's why you're getting back soft suggestions to introspect on your own style more, or think about whether or not his avoidance pushed you into AP attachment with him (insecure partners can push secure people into insecure attachments with them, even if they overall have a secure attachment style). If I'm missing anything because I missed the first post and therefore am responding to something improperly, I apologize. |
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