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Post by froggywentacourtin on Apr 27, 2022 23:48:26 GMT
I am FA leaning DA. Was married 21 years, my only serious relationship. Been divorced a couple of years. I have worked hard in therapy and self-awareness. I understand the origins of some of my attachment issues. In my two post-divorce relationships, I do sense that when I want to express real love, something inside me panics. It feels like a combination of concern that I am making the wrong decision, that I cannot judge my own feelings properly, and a vague sense of being trapped and obligated. So if I feel "I love you" and actually say it, I fear I have crossed the Rubicon, and might not feel a thing the next day. And that is key: I notice I can go from feeling what I think is true love, to not really feeling much at all, within half a day. My happy place seems to be having a friend with benefits. That's where my heart and mind seem to connect and work in a stable fashion. But the women I am with are always deeper in love and don't understand my hot and cold nature. I am good with easy affection and kindness, but I also like to spend time alone. I am kind and apologize when I hurt anyone, although I can definitely turn very cold if they get mean. I suspect I am still dealing with attachment issues here, but I am also a life-long loner who is easily overwhelmed in general. So I think that is contributing legitimately to this perceived problem. Part of me thinks I just have not met the right person yet that I truly feel safe to love, but I think that's a trap, because I can imagine such a person and still feel those hesitations and fears. I enjoy the honeymoon phase, the excitement, the freshness, the discovery. But I am not a jerk. I do not like breaking hearts, so I don't know how long I can keep this up. It bothers me that even when I feel I am in love that I would not be hurt too bad if the person left me the next day. There's always a sense of relief, of being safer in my bubble, when they leave. I certainly try to gain insights and heal, but sometimes I just tire of seeking my hidden reasons and motives. I told my therapist, "Why can't I be like those guys who just shrug and say, 'This is how I am. If you don't like it, leave.'" By that I mean, not to be a jerk, but to be honest with myself and say this is the best I can do, the most I can do, right now at this stage in my evolution. And I can still have fun and be kind, but it seems most women would find me the proverbial emotionally unavailable man at a later stage.
I know the idea here is I learn to become secure, but I do not know how that happens when my core feelings truly just aren't feeling much at all? If every relationship I get in makes me ultimately feel I am not in love with that person, isn't the problem that maybe I really don't love them, which cannot be solved? Perhaps I just fall in love very gently and fall out of love very easily?
Thank you for letting me ramble. I am hoping someone FA leaning DA has actually figured out how to identify and fix the broken wiring here (assuming that is my issue)!
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Post by sunrisequest on Apr 28, 2022 1:12:03 GMT
I'm not an FA so perhaps don't have many useful answers for you, but I just wanted to say thank you for the honesty of expressing yourself this way. I just broke up with an FA (he leaned anxious though) and your post is definitely enlightening as to how he may have been feeling on the other side of the fence there. It's hard to ask yourself these questions, it's brave that you are.
The thing that stood out about your post was where you mentioned that you don't know if you've met the right person yet to truly feel safe to love - this seems like a pivotal point in my opinion, because yes, the other person can contribute to our feelings of safety, but really that safety needs to come from within you first. If you don't feel safe in your own body and in relationship to others as a general thing, it doesn't actually matter who is standing in front of you. The outcome is likely to always be the same, and you'll need to withdraw to find that safety eventually.
I also think that it's okay for you to admit that this is the best you can do right now at this moment in time, but looking to the future and understanding you do have the power to change that if you want to, isn't a bad place to start.
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Post by cherrycola on Apr 28, 2022 3:14:10 GMT
Thinking you haven't met the right person is an insecure attachment lie. I am an FA who leaned DA in my marriage and I often just didn't feel much of anything towards him, it was hard to explain. The only time I could feel love was when we were unstable.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 3:35:03 GMT
Hey froggy, welcome! Attachment is a feeling, love is a choice. Are you able to stay in something with an ebb and flow, showing up when you aren't feeling it and allowing that to return? I ask because I'm primarily DA - secure and I don't experience the rapid switch into aversion. But I do have an ebb and flow of attachment. I disregard it. I'm in a great relationship. I'm just asking questions to understand more.
There isn't a right person, in my opinion. But there is a good enough person if you trust yourself, and think you're good enough. Do you trust yourself? Do you think you're good enough?
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 28, 2022 3:41:46 GMT
I am FA leaning DA. Was married 21 years, my only serious relationship. Been divorced a couple of years. I have worked hard in therapy and self-awareness. I understand the origins of some of my attachment issues. In my two post-divorce relationships, I do sense that when I want to express real love, something inside me panics. It feels like a combination of concern that I am making the wrong decision, that I cannot judge my own feelings properly, and a vague sense of being trapped and obligated. So if I feel "I love you" and actually say it, I fear I have crossed the Rubicon, and might not feel a thing the next day. And that is key: I notice I can go from feeling what I think is true love, to not really feeling much at all, within half a day. My happy place seems to be having a friend with benefits. That's where my heart and mind seem to connect and work in a stable fashion. But the women I am with are always deeper in love and don't understand my hot and cold nature. I am good with easy affection and kindness, but I also like to spend time alone. I am kind and apologize when I hurt anyone, although I can definitely turn very cold if they get mean. I suspect I am still dealing with attachment issues here, but I am also a life-long loner who is easily overwhelmed in general. So I think that is contributing legitimately to this perceived problem. Part of me thinks I just have not met the right person yet that I truly feel safe to love, but I think that's a trap, because I can imagine such a person and still feel those hesitations and fears. I enjoy the honeymoon phase, the excitement, the freshness, the discovery. But I am not a jerk. I do not like breaking hearts, so I don't know how long I can keep this up. It bothers me that even when I feel I am in love that I would not be hurt too bad if the person left me the next day. There's always a sense of relief, of being safer in my bubble, when they leave. I certainly try to gain insights and heal, but sometimes I just tire of seeking my hidden reasons and motives. I told my therapist, "Why can't I be like those guys who just shrug and say, 'This is how I am. If you don't like it, leave.'" By that I mean, not to be a jerk, but to be honest with myself and say this is the best I can do, the most I can do, right now at this stage in my evolution. And I can still have fun and be kind, but it seems most women would find me the proverbial emotionally unavailable man at a later stage.
I know the idea here is I learn to become secure, but I do not know how that happens when my core feelings truly just aren't feeling much at all? If every relationship I get in makes me ultimately feel I am not in love with that person, isn't the problem that maybe I really don't love them, which cannot be solved? Perhaps I just fall in love very gently and fall out of love very easily?
Thank you for letting me ramble. I am hoping someone FA leaning DA has actually figured out how to identify and fix the broken wiring here (assuming that is my issue)!
Welcome to the forums…are there any patterns in the partners you choose? As a personal example…I am an FA who leans AP in relationships because I tend to fall for DA leaning FAs. Bonus points if they have an addiction and act like playful boys. While that is still my preference….I know that these relationships will go nowhere due to an incompatible attachment mix. I wonder if you were to look at the partners you are choosing if in fact there is a similar choice that causes your existing dynamic. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 3:43:37 GMT
Also there's a bit of talk on the board about the effectiveness of SE therapy for attachment issues, maybe worth a look.
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rykus9
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Post by rykus9 on Apr 28, 2022 10:27:35 GMT
Welcome to the forum. I am also FA leaning DA and have had a few partners that I lasted long term with but I generally need to keep my own space or have space as a retreat/escape. None where healthy relationships though I realize and I chose women that wanted their own time/space as well.
My wife lived in the city 4 days (3 nights )a week during the last of our good years. Lived apart during the best/honeymoon phase.
Just putting my thoughts and patterns out in writing gbhrre has helped me realize things I kind of knew about myself but never thought about much. It haschelped a lot!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 13:23:50 GMT
Anne has bumped up the thread Healing DA attachment style. I just revisited the last page of that thread and can tell you that doing the things suggested in those posts to become more emotionally available are key.
Also, as an avoidant if you wait to feel "in love" and emotionally attached all the time to your partner , I don't believe that will ever happen, nor is it necessary for a fulfilling, emotionally bonded relationship. Feelings are transient and as long as there is not abuse or big insecure dynamics going on, something that can be recognized as toxic or unhealthy, shut downs don't need to be given a lot of weight. Sometimes shutting down can be a signal of actual danger- boundary crossings, etc. Sometimes it's just a deeply patterned response to mere discomfort. Sometimes it indicates that something needs to be worked through, and if you don't feed thoughts like "Well, I guess that's it, I won't feel again." or "I am fatally flawed in this department and there is nothing I can do..." then you can just go through it, observe it, and behave contrary to it as is suggested in the last few posts of that thread. It's retraining. I've done this with great success. I still go through that loss of emotional feelings but it's transient and truly nothing I worry or do something about other than keep showing up in self care AND in care for my partner.
For me it's like experiencing temperature changes. I feel a chill, I don't let that feeling convince me I will never feel warm again. I feel it, I keep doing what I'm doing, maybe even try to get more comfortable by doing things I know have made me warm before. Or like feeling sick, I feel it come on and recognize there is something I need, things I do and don't feel like doing, and it will pass if I take care of myself in healthy ways and maybe even let someone know I need a little extra help. (Yes, I've told my partner sometimes when I don't feel connected and it scares me and he snuggles me and I feel better). Sometimes if there is conflict and I feel this I DO use my reasoning to get through it. And I can observe it without it changing my commitment. Because I have enough experience with it, have worked with it doing the things that are suggested, long enough to see that work.
I don't know that people feel "love" all the time as a feeling, if they always feel that in love feeling, like all the time. Do they? I mean I'm not minimizing what if feels like to go blank because I know exactly how that feels but is it possible you are exaggerating the importance of being "in love" to be happy? Stable can feel quite boring at times but that's just the pause between inhale and exhale, how I see it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 14:59:15 GMT
Also- time in your bubble is ok! Having alone time, time that is dedicated to you and no one else, is perfectly acceptable in a healthy relationship and with a secure person will not strain the relationship. How much space and alone time is something negotiated by partners in the relationship, and incompatibilities thetr are simply incompatibilities.
I find that being HSP and easily overwhelmed, plus my more introverted and originally avoidant attachment style means that I thrive with some solitude and quiet every single day. I also benefit from weekends when my boyfriend and I are less involved (we currently live apart and cohabit every other weekend for 5 days, that's what schedule works with my teens at home. We get together regularly when we aren't "living together". Eventually when they are gone and we plan to cohabit, we will work in our individual time in some new configuration.
He has his own projects, guy time, interests outside of the relationship that he enjoys immersing into. I am the same, only my social needs are a bit less. So we are compatible. I would not be interested in a relationship without this kind of individual time, simply because that's not compatible with my needs and what makes me healthy and happy.
What I mean about trusting yourself is understanding your needs, what you desire, and being able to make decisions and create boundaries and a lifestyle that honors that. Trusting your ability to learn new ways to take care of yourself, to communicate, to evolve in the way that brings you to your most authentic self. If you are able to uncover that you shut down because there is something bothering you that you dismissed, being your attention back to listen to yourself about what's going on. Take constructive action.
It's such a big process but it involves little decisions, little awareness moments and openness to new practices, little by little. It has become more natural for me over time to know what's going on in me and what to do about it, and I continue to grow all the time. You don't have to take attachment as more than a mood once you become familiar with it and work through it yo a certain degree. So even if you aren't that far along don't assume you can't get there just because you've felt this way for so long. It's pretty reversible. You never have to be perfect at it. And getting there with someone doesn't guarantee a future- we aren't guaranteed anything. There is no permanence even in a secure relationship where the people are totally "in love". That's an illusion.
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Post by froggywentacourtin on Apr 28, 2022 15:03:19 GMT
The thing that stood out about your post was where you mentioned that you don't know if you've met the right person yet to truly feel safe to love - this seems like a pivotal point in my opinion, because yes, the other person can contribute to our feelings of safety, but really that safety needs to come from within you first. If you don't feel safe in your own body and in relationship to others as a general thing, it doesn't actually matter who is standing in front of you. The outcome is likely to always be the same, and you'll need to withdraw to find that safety eventually. I really appreciate this insight and reminder. It seems my own insecurities are being offloaded onto unwitting potential partners. |
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Post by froggywentacourtin on Apr 28, 2022 16:21:43 GMT
Also- time in your bubble is ok! Having alone time, time that is dedicated to you and no one else, is perfectly acceptable in a healthy relationship and with a secure person will not strain the relationship. How much space and alone time is something negotiated by partners in the relationship, and incompatibilities thetr are simply incompatibilities. I find that being HSP and easily overwhelmed, plus my more introverted and originally avoidant attachment style means that I thrive with some solitude and quiet every single day. I also benefit from weekends when my boyfriend and I are less involved (we currently live apart and cohabit every other weekend for 5 days, that's what schedule works with my teens at home. We get together regularly when we aren't "living together". Eventually when they are gone and we plan to cohabit, we will work in our individual time in some new configuration. He has his own projects, guy time, interests outside of the relationship that he enjoys immersing into. I am the same, only my social needs are a bit less. So we are compatible. I would not be interested in a relationship without this kind of individual time, simply because that's not compatible with my needs and what makes me healthy and happy. What I mean about trusting yourself is understanding your needs, what you desire, and being able to make decisions and create boundaries and a lifestyle that honors that. Trusting your ability to learn new ways to take care of yourself, to communicate, to evolve in the way that brings you to your most authentic self. If you are able to uncover that you shut down because there is something bothering you that you dismissed, being your attention back to listen to yourself about what's going on. Take constructive action. It's such a big process but it involves little decisions, little awareness moments and openness to new practices, little by little. It has become more natural for me over time to know what's going on in me and what to do about it, and I continue to grow all the time. You don't have to take attachment as more than a mood once you become familiar with it and work through it yo a certain degree. So even if you aren't that far along don't assume you can't get there just because you've felt this way for so long. It's pretty reversible. You never have to be perfect at it. And getting there with someone doesn't guarantee a future- we aren't guaranteed anything. There is no permanence even in a secure relationship where the people are totally "in love". That's an illusion. Wow, thank you for those two replies. I believe you may have picked the lock here to get me into the next room of more secure attachment. There is much wisdom in acceptance, which is something my therapy has helped me discover in other areas of my life.
It seems I may be looking for something else, some other reality--or fantasy, more likely--because I am afraid to embrace the reality of who I am and what I might feel or might not feel. I sense my fear instinct desires more control and would rather run and hide than sit down and accept these unknowns, these unpredictable feelings and unfathomable risks.
The reality is that being in love likely requires me to sit still and stand on my feet while the tides of emotion ebb and flow, rather than me running when I feel scared or unstable. Thinking about the future or the possible risks does nothing to stabilize me or help me enjoy the present. But I can focus on the here and now and relish the fact that I have a partner who respects me, loves me, and helps me grow as a person in positive ways.
So this is more about me working with my reality, my true needs, my healthy boundaries, and assembling that in such a way as to honor myself and benefit myself while helping me enjoy a healthy, stable relationship with someone who must also do that. By focusing on the present and accepting myself and the realities of my relationships, I can stop worrying about the future unknowns and so much that I have not control over.
One thing I never learned in my marriage was healthy boundaries. In fact it was only by erasing my boundaries that I was able to have stability and keep the marriage going, so even now boundaries and self-acceptance are weak impulses in me, but I see now these are required to have a structurally sound relationship. I cannot love another until I sufficiently know myself and can communicate clearly about me so that they can respect and navigate my needs.
So happy I posted here because you have truly opened up new paths of thinking about this!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 17:04:36 GMT
Also- time in your bubble is ok! Having alone time, time that is dedicated to you and no one else, is perfectly acceptable in a healthy relationship and with a secure person will not strain the relationship. How much space and alone time is something negotiated by partners in the relationship, and incompatibilities thetr are simply incompatibilities. I find that being HSP and easily overwhelmed, plus my more introverted and originally avoidant attachment style means that I thrive with some solitude and quiet every single day. I also benefit from weekends when my boyfriend and I are less involved (we currently live apart and cohabit every other weekend for 5 days, that's what schedule works with my teens at home. We get together regularly when we aren't "living together". Eventually when they are gone and we plan to cohabit, we will work in our individual time in some new configuration. He has his own projects, guy time, interests outside of the relationship that he enjoys immersing into. I am the same, only my social needs are a bit less. So we are compatible. I would not be interested in a relationship without this kind of individual time, simply because that's not compatible with my needs and what makes me healthy and happy. What I mean about trusting yourself is understanding your needs, what you desire, and being able to make decisions and create boundaries and a lifestyle that honors that. Trusting your ability to learn new ways to take care of yourself, to communicate, to evolve in the way that brings you to your most authentic self. If you are able to uncover that you shut down because there is something bothering you that you dismissed, being your attention back to listen to yourself about what's going on. Take constructive action. It's such a big process but it involves little decisions, little awareness moments and openness to new practices, little by little. It has become more natural for me over time to know what's going on in me and what to do about it, and I continue to grow all the time. You don't have to take attachment as more than a mood once you become familiar with it and work through it yo a certain degree. So even if you aren't that far along don't assume you can't get there just because you've felt this way for so long. It's pretty reversible. You never have to be perfect at it. And getting there with someone doesn't guarantee a future- we aren't guaranteed anything. There is no permanence even in a secure relationship where the people are totally "in love". That's an illusion. Wow, thank you for those two replies. I believe you may have picked the lock here to get me into the next room of more secure attachment. There is much wisdom in acceptance, which is something my therapy has helped me discover in other areas of my life.
It seems I may be looking for something else, some other reality--or fantasy, more likely--because I am afraid to embrace the reality of who I am and what I might feel or might not feel. I sense my fear instinct desires more control and would rather run and hide than sit down and accept these unknowns, these unpredictable feelings and unfathomable risks.
The reality is that being in love likely requires me to sit still and stand on my feet while the tides of emotion ebb and flow, rather than me running when I feel scared or unstable. Thinking about the future or the possible risks does nothing to stabilize me or help me enjoy the present. But I can focus on the here and now and relish the fact that I have a partner who respects me, loves me, and helps me grow as a person in positive ways.
So this is more about me working with my reality, my true needs, my healthy boundaries, and assembling that in such a way as to honor myself and benefit myself while helping me enjoy a healthy, stable relationship with someone who must also do that. By focusing on the present and accepting myself and the realities of my relationships, I can stop worrying about the future unknowns and so much that I have not control over.
One thing I never learned in my marriage was healthy boundaries. In fact it was only by erasing my boundaries that I was able to have stability and keep the marriage going, so even now boundaries and self-acceptance are weak impulses in me, but I see now these are required to have a structurally sound relationship. I cannot love another until I sufficiently know myself and can communicate clearly about me so that they can respect and navigate my needs.
So happy I posted here because you have truly opened up new paths of thinking about this!
You're welcome and you've got it. I'm so glad that you have other areas in your life you have developed that acceptance and present moment acceptance/awareness- you can apply all that to your relating style and challenges. It really is a practice-makes-perfect or at least practice-makes-better approach. Seriously, challenge yourself to try the things listed in that Healing DA thread. Also important to note; you have strengths in a relationship as well, just as you are. You recognize that you are kind, you are probably a good listener and empathetic. You are probably pleasant to be around, in spite of your inability to meet your own and other's expectations in some ways. My partner and I are in the habit of naming things we cherish in the other after conflict. That's important to do for yourself too. Some things he tells me about myself are not things that you'd necessarily associate with DA attachment but which are strongly developed in me due to my growth in the area of self-acceptance, self care, and opening to others. Other things he loves about me are inherent in my nature, and strengths that DA's tend to have as part of their makeup. All of life is not about attachment. There are things to appreciate in you, including and excluding the realm of attachment. So make sure you shine the light on those things too in your quest to find balance in your life. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 18:47:17 GMT
I like what you said about being in the present moment and relishing the fact of having a partner who respects you and helps you grow. That's the foundation of my relationship. I've been in that weird and confusing place of feeling nothing at the moment and being unable to fathom "feelings" returning. It's a very intimidating place because it feels wrong and as if you've made a terrible mistake, and a sense of ethics pressures you to be honest and withdraw because you aren't feeling it... and from there you just hope you can figure out what the hell to do next.
There's usually something at the root of it that can be addressed. That "deactivation" of attachment is a threat response. It's just a response. It passes, it waxes and wanes, unless you're living in a state of constant fear and in that case you can't have a relationship anyway... the fear has to be worked with to have basic safety and that doesn't sound like what we are talking about here.
An anxious person might have periods of anxiety that they learn to self soothe, themselves, or learn to ask for reassurance from a partner emotionally able to help them, that's their growth process. An avoidant person experiences shut down, the need to withdraw in the absence of those attachment feelings which are confused with real love... and we have to learn to recognize that for what it is and find new, constructive and healing ways to address it. That's all. Far from impossible.
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