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Post by carol333 on Oct 26, 2022 0:16:11 GMT
Hello everyone, I’m struggling right now. I have been in a relationship for almost 2.5 years with a DA, we broke up 1.3 years ago for almost two months when we started to apply for a FIANCÉ VISA (we are from different countries) At that time I thought he started to pull away because the stress of the paper work but now I can see that it always was because we were getting more committed and this process would make reality for us to finally live together which means more closeness. He told me he thought he would be single forever, and that sometimes he craved his space so badly and in a selfish way to be honest and that his mom told him the same too and then started to point out things he just realized he didn’t like about me as an excuse (like me being messy with cloths etc) stress at his work blah blah. Anything made sense in my mind but I gave him the break up after 2 weeks of trying to fix things as a very Anxious partner. He started to reach out every week after the breakup just to tell me he missed me but without any solution until I found out that he kinda dated other girl and it broke my heart but he reached out two days after this begging for forgiveness and to make things work, he told me he was ready to get marry and to do all the visa process etc.
We worked on our relationship for a month and got back together, the visa files went sent and the US embassy is about to approve or deny our case in January/Feb. this December he was supposed to come to meet my family and we started discussing things about the interview for the Visa etc and he suddenly started tu pull away. After a week and a half of pulling away for 1-3 days each time he finally said he was going though a lot of stress at work, financially and that the whole trip worried him because he didn’t have enough money etc. He also said he had an anxiety attack and he was feeling awful during all those days so I just replied that I was sorry and I was there for him if he wanted to talk or if I could help in any way. He never saw this message (it was on Instagram) Then after 1 week of no hearing from him I sent him a WhatsApp to see how he was doing and he told me basically the same and that his car got broken and everything was worse, that he was very overwhelmed and he didn’t know if he would be able to come see me because he didn’t have a lot of money on his pockets, I told him it was okay, that I understood, and that I thought he should focus on all those issues and we could see how things were mid-late November so we could decide about the trip, that I love him and I was there for him. He replied “ok” I wanted to give him space to relax and reach out but now we are in the week number 2 of no contact. I found on the internet all the info about Avoidant attachment and everything sounds like him, he also had a very absent father who abandoned him without explanation at 8 years and I know this was a huge trauma for him, he took therapy and meds for a long time.
So now I don’t know what to do, I don’t really want to break up I don’t want to beg either, or to fry to fix something I didn’t break, everything was going great in our relationship and I just came back from being with him during 3 months, he bought a desktop for me for when I started to live there, he put photos of us in all the walls, I met his friends family and he insisted me to leave half of my clothes at his apartment so I could wear them next times. I totally feel a little bit more secure but not at all. I hope we don’t break up and suggest him again to go to therapy (he agreed months ago when I didn’t know all his stress comes from His DA attachment) but as soon as we started to feel better he quitted the idea to see a therapist.
I feel that when we broke up it was because I was pushing him too hard for an explanation, so I don’t want to do the same right now but it kinda feels like he is trying to break up with distance but sometimes I feel he just needs time to resolve his feelings.
He is not using social media at all, only WhatsApp which he never used before and now he is only online there.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 26, 2022 2:31:11 GMT
I'm sorry you're going through this. I also know I'm going to say things you don't want to hear. His unwillingness to take accountability here or go to therapy is what is going to torpedo your relationship, not you pushing him to give you an explanation or fully commit to the relationship. I used to have a textbook anxious preoccupied attachment, and I dated many, many avoidant men. Some were nice people, but we'd fall into the anxious-avoidant trap because we were not a good match for each other's needs. And some were so emotionally unavailable that they would put up obstacle after road block after moving the goal posts over and over again no matter what I did. But since, being AP and having an insecure attachment that meant by definition I was emotionally unavailable myself (even if I wasn't conscious of it at the time), I played along and waited and waited instead of accepting we did not want the same things. This was a waste of time for both of us, really. I should have taken the time to question why I was trying to force relationships to work that did not meet my needs, and why I was willing to minimize my needs and not leave incompatible anxious-avoidant situations.
What I have learned through much dating experience is that someone who is ready to commit and able to back it up will not keep throwing up new road blocks, they will be trying to remove them. If the person is not doing this, then it does not matter how much they care about you or love you. They can love you passionately. But they are not capable of being a healthy or fully committed partner, full stop. I heard every excuse in the book from my avoidant boyfriends about why we should keep things exactly as they were for now and not move in together yet or talk about engagement in any realistic terms, even though I wanted those milestones. Things were always almost right, but not quite: enough to keep me hanging on, seeing hope in the inconsistency instead of seeing that I was trying to stay in my feelings and cling to dating potential instead of what or who was really in front of me. When I finally met a guy who was serious, we were in a ridiculous situation due to the pandemic. There were many logistic obstacles to overcome, and yet it seemed easy and simple with him as he removed them all. Total opposite of my experience when I was in insecurely attached relationships.
It makes sense that you have given him a lot of time already, but it sounds like the pattern of results has been the same for a long time, and you now have enough information to see that if you choose to see it. Long distance relationships like this are very difficult, because when you see the other person it is like a temporary vacation and they can hide or ignore all the bad parts because the distance is built-in and coming again soon. That makes these relationships very appealing to people with insecure attachment styles. Anxious can long for their partners and experience the amazing times and feel constantly overwhelmed by the strength of their feelings (which feels like enduring love), and avoidant can enjoy the time together without panicking, knowing distance and alone time will come again soon. So I agree with you that you already have the core problem pegged correctly: he's having a lot of difficulty transitioning from long distance to in-person, complete with legal obligations and a Visa, and making things real. It's a risk for him in a new country, and for you as well since you will become his support network (assuming he does not also have a bunch of friends and family where you are). And if he refuses to go to therapy or do anything real to address his cold feet, there's really nothing you can do except perhaps go to therapy yourself if you don't do that already. It may not help you with shifting the course of the relationship to what you hope for (only he can make the decision to address his issues, you can't influence him to do so if he's not ready or willing), but it will help you navigate the anxiety, doubt, any impact his flip flopping has on your self-esteem, and will help you deal with any stress that comes your way if he doesn't follow through on visiting or moving there. It will help you learn how to respond to him in ways that are healthy for you, and that can be priceless.
I wish you the best. I don't see signs in what you said so far that he's going to pull himself together, so you do have to prepare for that possibility. And if it happens, remember, these are his issues and you didn't cause this, it has very little to do with you. Don't abandon yourself if that happens, and lean on whatever support network you may have, friends and family, to remember that you have a full life outside him. If he does follow through, that's amazing, but give him lots of time to prove to you that he's fully in this and all his words, actions, and feelings match, before you get married! It sounds like if he comes around you need to spend quite a bit of time letting him take the lead on rebuilding the trust he has lost by being wishy-washy. Do not sell yourself short on the kind of relationship you deserve.
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Post by carol333 on Oct 26, 2022 3:20:08 GMT
I'm sorry you're going through this. I also know I'm going to say things you don't want to hear. His unwillingness to take accountability here or go to therapy is what is going to torpedo your relationship, not you pushing him to give you an explanation or fully commit to the relationship. I used to have a textbook anxious preoccupied attachment, and I dated many, many avoidant men. Some were nice people, but we'd fall into the anxious-avoidant trap because we were not a good match for each other's needs. And some were so emotionally unavailable that they would put up obstacle after road block after moving the goal posts over and over again no matter what I did. But since, being AP and having an insecure attachment that meant by definition I was emotionally unavailable myself (even if I wasn't conscious of it at the time), I played along and waited and waited instead of accepting we did not want the same things. This was a waste of time for both of us, really. I should have taken the time to question why I was trying to force relationships to work that did not meet my needs, and why I was willing to minimize my needs and not leave incompatible anxious-avoidant situations. What I have learned through much dating experience is that someone who is ready to commit and able to back it up will not keep throwing up new road blocks, they will be trying to remove them. If the person is not doing this, then it does not matter how much they care about you or love you. They can love you passionately. But they are not capable of being a healthy or fully committed partner, full stop. I heard every excuse in the book from my avoidant boyfriends about why we should keep things exactly as they were for now and not move in together yet or talk about engagement in any realistic terms, even though I wanted those milestones. Things were always almost right, but not quite: enough to keep me hanging on, seeing hope in the inconsistency instead of seeing that I was trying to stay in my feelings and cling to dating potential instead of what or who was really in front of me. When I finally met a guy who was serious, we were in a ridiculous situation due to the pandemic. There were many logistic obstacles to overcome, and yet it seemed easy and simple with him as he removed them all. Total opposite of my experience when I was in insecurely attached relationships. It makes sense that you have given him a lot of time already, but it sounds like the pattern of results has been the same for a long time, and you now have enough information to see that if you choose to see it. Long distance relationships like this are very difficult, because when you see the other person it is like a temporary vacation and they can hide or ignore all the bad parts because the distance is built-in and coming again soon. That makes these relationships very appealing to people with insecure attachment styles. Anxious can long for their partners and experience the amazing times and feel constantly overwhelmed by the strength of their feelings (which feels like enduring love), and avoidant can enjoy the time together without panicking, knowing distance and alone time will come again soon. So I agree with you that you already have the core problem pegged correctly: he's having a lot of difficulty transitioning from long distance to in-person, complete with legal obligations and a Visa, and making things real. It's a risk for him in a new country, and for you as well since you will become his support network (assuming he does not also have a bunch of friends and family where you are). And if he refuses to go to therapy or do anything real to address his cold feet, there's really nothing you can do except perhaps go to therapy yourself if you don't do that already. It may not help you with shifting the course of the relationship to what you hope for (only he can make the decision to address his issues, you can't influence him to do so if he's not ready or willing), but it will help you navigate the anxiety, doubt, any impact his flip flopping has on your self-esteem, and will help you deal with any stress that comes your way if he doesn't follow through on visiting or moving there. It will help you learn how to respond to him in ways that are healthy for you, and that can be priceless. I wish you the best. I don't see signs in what you said so far that he's going to pull himself together, so you do have to prepare for that possibility. And if it happens, remember, these are his issues and you didn't cause this, it has very little to do with you. Don't abandon yourself if that happens, and lean on whatever support network you may have, friends and family, to remember that you have a full life outside him. If he does follow through, that's amazing, but give him lots of time to prove to you that he's fully in this and all his words, actions, and feelings match, before you get married! It sounds like if he comes around you need to spend quite a bit of time letting him take the lead on rebuilding the trust he has lost by being wishy-washy. Do not sell yourself short on the kind of relationship you deserve. Thank you for your reply! Is great to read other people perspectives The one that was moving to US was me, which makes me more frustrated since I was giving a lot into the relationship, i was removing road blocks as you said. He complained a lot about financial stuff and "changes" we would need to do when I was there, and I remember telling him once, a little bit upsed "Guess who is giving up her contry, family, friends and work? MEEEE!!! Am i complaining? No! because I want to be with you and make it work, have a new life here", and he just shut his mouth. The last time we had differentes about this, he called his mother and he told me She gave him the same words than me. that he was only focusing on the negative, that there were going to be changes, that a relationship was to give and take back etc that he should control his emotions and he was very lucky to have someone as easy going and comprehensive like me. She really liked me. The strongest feeling I have right now is frustration, frustation about how I didn't see it coming, but at the same time I think, how could I? If the man literally hanged pictures of me and my family around his entire apartment, he paid the visa, the insisted me to leave my stuff at his apartment etc. Everything was perfect as we planned, we just needed to follow through. At least this time I didn't react over dramatic and that's why I don't feel guilty about anything. I just keep wondering if he stoped loving me, he met somebody else or what. What you said about long distance relationships make total sense to me, this is my third long distance relationship... Do you think I should call him for closure and a clear break up? Or should i just take his silence as a break up and keep living my life
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Post by alexandra on Oct 26, 2022 7:30:35 GMT
Is your stuff still at his place? Is it enough to have him ship it back? You'd want him to return it in that case, and then you'll have to ask him to do so. If you don't need anything from him, you can assume you're broken up and it's up to you if you want to reach out to make it official or not. He sounds more FA than DA to me, and I've had FA break up with me and not tell me because they couldn't handle any confrontation (real or perceived / imagined). But if I waited a month then they'd unfreeze and emotionally calm down enough to return my things and admit we were broken up. I'm usually all for communicating directly and honestly, but these situations are a little tricky because it may simply not be possible if one or both of you are triggered and in fight/flight/freeze/fawn self defense mode.
I'm not sure why I read it as he was moving to you. Even if he comes around, it is extremely risky for you to make a move like that and need to rely on him for legal status, at least in the relationship's current state. Again, there's no trust left for that kind of commitment without a lot of work back up to it. I personally wouldn't make a move like that unless I really wanted to whether or not he was a factor, and I had other reliable means of securing legal status.
It's still painful and probably infuriating, and you'll need time to mourn the relationship. But you should also feel lucky this happened before you moved, not after. If he does come around with another grand gesture (I noticed he proposed doing the Visa work after he went out with another woman and thought he lost you...), again, be very wary about his capacity to truly commit. If he cannot offer any reasons for his change of heart or solid plan that he sticks to for rebuilding your relationship and trust, it's a no go. I once made this mistake with an FA who wanted to reconcile and my only term was he needed to start therapy. He did not do so, we got back together anyway, and I had whiplash from how fast he dumped me again for the same reason he gave the first time. People can change but not magically and not overnight.
In the meantime, if you've noticed patterns within yourself, to get involved in long distance relationships that don't progress, to get anxious in relationships, then the best thing to do here is introspect after whatever mourning you need to do. Be kind to yourself, and then be honest. Do you have an anxious insecure attachment? Have you mostly dated insecure men? Are these the kinds of relationship dynamics you want? Are you minimizing your own needs in hopes it will help you win someone else over and earn their love? Your situation is really unfortunate, but there's a lot of good that can come out of it if you're willing to process it and explore why you were willing to try to shoulder so much of this relationship by yourself.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 26, 2022 7:52:31 GMT
One other thing, since you said he could have time to think and you discussed reconnecting in mid-November, he could be taking you at your word and not have quite broken up with you in his head. So you can't assume what he's thinking (there's no sense in going down the does he actually love me or did he meet someone else rabbit holes, I don't think it changes that he's been wishy washy for a long time). But then you need to think about if you want to be with someone who deals with overwhelm and stress by withdrawing for a month without a word. It's more about what you want in response to his behavior rather than him making the decision for you.
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Post by carol333 on Oct 26, 2022 17:49:26 GMT
One other thing, since you said he could have time to think and you discussed reconnecting in mid-November, he could be taking you at your word and not have quite broken up with you in his head. So you can't assume what he's thinking (there's no sense in going down the does he actually love me or did he meet someone else rabbit holes, I don't think it changes that he's been wishy washy for a long time). But then you need to think about if you want to be with someone who deals with overwhelm and stress by withdrawing for a month without a word. It's more about what you want in response to his behavior rather than him making the decision for you. I left some of my stuff like new clothes I bough there because the weather was unexpectedly cold, i bought some tools (I'm a jeweler) and lab made stones i was planning to travel with but at the end I just had a lot of stuff i couldn't carry with all of them in my suitcases. He told me to leave the clothes there so I have some when I returned. He bought me a desktop so I had a space to work in, in one trip he bought me all the snow equipment saying he wanted me to buy me all the things I would need one I lived there, thats why I always thought he was being pretty serious and committed. I have noticed that when I visit everything is easy and smooth, when he stress is when it's his turn to come see my country, friends etc. I thought it was about the money but with time i started to think it was more something like "leaving his comfort zone". I also remember very clearly that in my second trip, we had like 8 months of relationship and he gave me this Valentine's card saying "I promise i will be a better partner for you" and that was very strange for me because at that moment we haven't had like a real big discussion or anything. Now I think he has been probably struggling in all his relationships and he is aware that he is not the best partner. Its hard because in the good moments he is very supportive, loving, and charming, it's just when the stress take over his head he changes like he had a switch, I had some hope because he agreed he had a problem. He knows his relationship with his dad had a major effect on his life. He had depression almost all highschool and college, he was going for years to the psychiatrist and taking meds (I just found about it months ago) and during college he had his major crisis and he tried to reach out his dad who abandoned him without a work at 8 years old, looking for closure I think, but the dad was so cooky and sarcastic that my bf broke down and he told him he was going to find him and muder him (I don't think we would actually doing, I just think he was so frustrated and heartbroken and was trying to see some kind of feelings in his dad, at least fear from him) He told this to his therapist and he kept him in a mental institution 1 day or 2 in observation. Then he tried to move on with his life with therapy and I think he did big changes in his friendships and family but he never worked on romantic relationships probably because that was not very important for him at that age. I know he was a partner because he had told me numerous times that he moved to his dream city with the plan to get a good job, good circle of friends, and a partner, he has checked all the boxes, but being fleaky with me lol. I don't know... I have been thinking about it and I don't really want to reach out because I don't know in which state of mind he is, I don't want to receive hurtful words or more silence, it also feels like i would be doing the job for him, bringing up the break up conversation and everything. I think I will just take the silence as "I don't want to be with you" and try to move on with that idea. If he reaches out to break up I wouldn't resist but i would like to say why I think we failed as a couple and point out his FA behaviour. If he reaches out to get back I would ask him to go to therapy, no negotiations about it, and if he never reaches out, I'll take it as a break up and wait until my heart feels better so I could handle without break up a conversation and ask him to ship my stuff (at least the gemstones, tools). At some point the embassy will send both the letter and notification of approval, and in case we break up he would need to make the cancelation of the visa because he is the petitioner... we would not be able to just run away and forgive about everything lol, he is the only one that can make this process and has to be done because if one of us is about to marry or if I'm visiting US it would pop up in their system and we both could have problems. But yeah you are right, whatever happens I need to keep in mind that i should not get trapped in this vicious cycle with him or another person and heal my own traumas. I used to be a very anxious partner, I have improved with experience and therapy but I still have work to do because I still feel attraction for the same kind of people and somehow in lower or higher level the story stills repeat. I think it might be because my dad is kind of a DA, him and my mom divorced and I was happy because I saw my mom suffering a lot, she was very codependent and submissive.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 26, 2022 20:51:56 GMT
Having gotten to the other side of this, as you process this, I think there are a couple important things to keep in mind. One that's incredibly important is, a relationship has to work when things are good and when they are bad. A relationship that is only amazing in good times but gets dysfunctional in bad times actually doesn't work. Life has lots of stress and issues, so everything can't always be good. That's why it's important to have a teammate and partner you can trust, which is why learning how you both problem-solve, fight, and handle stress is incredibly important when gauging a long-term commitment. Relationships are supposed to make life better, not drain you further. I used to believe never disagreeing was good, until I learned it often means there's a lack of communication, rather than there's no problems. Having issues come up and respectfully but directly talking through them, even if there's disagreement, and seeing that the relationship can endure such things without falling apart, is at least as and maybe even more important than having a great time together.
The other thing is, I was AP and over much time earned secure. Once I did, it did naturally start changing the type of person and dynamic I was attracted to. It wasn't an immediate switch, but what I was looking for and what I was attracting got much emotionally healthier. So if your way forward here does end up being on your own, there will be much good that can come out of focusing on yourself and exploring your own family dynamics and lingering issues. Plus, the entire experience with this partner will teach you more about what you're looking for and what works for you and what doesn't. So hang in there! You sound like you're approaching it all pretty reasonably, which I think does come with the territory of observing something not work after trying multiple times. My earning secure came after multiple break ups with my last FA boyfriend, and that was not a coincidence. And FWIW, I did try to discuss our attachment dynamics and difficulties with him, and he was okay hearing about it as it applied to me but too defensive to want to think about his role in it. So I mentioned FA to him one time as something he might look into on his own, and that was that. He didn't want to do it, and I saw how we had very different mindsets about personal growth, and I finally came to terms with our core mutual incompatibilities.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2022 20:55:01 GMT
My take, ghosting is a deal breaker no matter what. If someone disappears they need to stay gone,period. It's not possible to feel good about a relationship where you could be ghosted at any time.
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