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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2022 3:41:36 GMT
The other thing also is exchanging of presents isn’t exactly “doing Christmas”. I love cold ham sandwiches two days later (it’s hot over Christmas here), but I really don’t want to be sharing a lunch table and having to be happy, then a dinner table with another lot and feign happiness. I spent years being married doing things like that, that I really didn’t want yo do. That was compromise that I don’t want to make again. It just comes with consequences. Also, how one conducts holiday with their children from a precious relarionshop has to do with their children, and the other parent. How one does things with their kids is not automatically transferable to how they want to do things in adult relationships. It's an understandable assumption but one I never make as everyone I know has their particulars and preferences around the holidays so it's always good to ask.
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Post by mrob on Dec 14, 2022 3:43:02 GMT
Ramping up expectations and changes in relationship status, moving forward, will cause an FA to retreat. Then an AP or confused secure will try to move towards the retreating FA, and so on and so on. A confused secure will tire of this quickly and move on. An AP will not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2022 3:43:24 GMT
That's the best I can do to explain why I don't think you are reasonable to try to get the relationship you want from someone you say is avoidant (so much so that he behaves like he is involved with someone else but isn't, he's THAT avoidant, according to you.) Maybe take a moment to read what you have written here, so you can understand why someone might challenge your position? It's not something that is upsetting to me as I am not in your position. But I truly think you should step back and examine your expectations to see if you really think they are reasonable? Hello again. I know what I wrote. He ebbs and flows. 4-6 months of emotional/physical reciprocity followed by the push away. I know that is classic. I have not written the entire details of our relationship in this forum b/c It is on the internet. I have focused on one upsetting aspect that just happened to me without warning. He can be reciprocal. Has been for years. Never experienced the lack until now. He seemed like someone just moving as a slower pace but things in general have been moving forward. Okay, but can you see how what you have shared paints a picture and that's what we have to go on? Again, I don't have the answers you seek so I will bow out and wish you the best.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2022 3:44:36 GMT
Ramping up expectations and changes in relationship status, moving forward, will cause an FA to retreat. Then an AP or confused secure will try to move towards the retreating FA, and so on and so on. A confused secure will tire of this quickly and move on. An AP will not. That's the difference right there.
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Lee
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Post by Lee on Dec 14, 2022 3:47:49 GMT
Ramping up expectations and changes in relationship status, moving forward, will cause an FA to retreat. Then an AP or confused secure will try to move towards the retreating FA, and so on and so on. A confused secure will tire of this quickly and move on. An AP will not. I am not moving toward him now. I am giving him space and letting the conversation rest. It was one conversation that was shocking to me. I'm leaving it be. Do you think it ie better to call and him and tell him i didn't know he wasn't into xmas. I thought he was because he exchanged with his children and all these years he never told me he didn't do xmas. If he feels more comfortable not to do it I won't look for it from him?
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Post by mrob on Dec 14, 2022 3:51:54 GMT
The other difference is that for an FA, closeness = terror, but not from the beginning. There can be an “aww” feeling until there isn’t. Then there’s the fear of engulfment. That’s where @introvert, you’re fortunate. I never know what move is going to take me over the edge. I have a fair idea what triggers it these days, and I know some of it isn’t real, but I know it’s all downhill once I’m triggered, unless I can ignore every fibre of my being.
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Lee
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Post by Lee on Dec 14, 2022 3:53:19 GMT
The other difference is that for an FA, closeness = terror, but not from the beginning. There can be an “aww” feeling until there isn’t. Then there’s the fear of engulfment. That’s where @introvert, you’re fortunate. I never know what move is going to take me over the edge. I have a fair idea what triggers it these days, and I know some of it isn’t real, but I know it’s all downhill once I’m triggered, unless I can ignore every fibre of my being. I am not moving toward him now. I am giving him space and letting the conversation rest. It was one conversation that was shocking to me. I'm leaving it be. Do you think it is better to call and him and tell him i didn't know he wasn't into xmas. I thought he was because he exchanged with his children and all these years he never told me he didn't do xmas. If he feels more comfortable not to do it I won't look for it from him?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2022 3:56:18 GMT
The other difference is that for an FA, closeness = terror, but not from the beginning. There can be an “aww” feeling until there isn’t. Then there’s the fear of engulfment. That’s where @introvert, you’re fortunate. I never know what move is going to take me over the edge. I have a fair idea what triggers it these days, and I know some of it isn’t real, but I know it’s all downhill once I’m triggered, unless I can ignore every fibre of my being. I hate that you go through that and I admire and support your continuing efforts to find a way to the relationship you want. I don't want to subd trite, I'm really pulling for you.
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Post by mrob on Dec 14, 2022 3:56:55 GMT
I’ve been in your position with a more avoidant FA. Same triggers, same behaviour, different details. I could see what was going on for her and empathise with the cycles and behaviour. It became too much for me unless I wanted to remain in an ever quickening loop. And I’m an FA! This is hard. It’s hard to get to a point where love isn’t enough, but that is the harsh truth.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 14, 2022 4:00:20 GMT
For years he commented that he exchanged with his kids and grandkids so I thought he "did" Christmas. Here we are in the 11th hour of Christmas. He tells me now, after everything is bought and paid for (unable to be returned) and wrapped. I have trauma around the holiday myself which I have shared with him. It isn't fair to assume I should have talked to him about this when for YEARS I was aware he exchanged with kids. If he has an issue around why he doesn't want to do it, an explanation would help me understand. It isn't fair to expect me to understand when nothing is being explained. The most frustrating thing is everything is on HIS terms. Everything. I can't do xmas, my birthday, see him as much as I would like etc. THAT is not fair. We have a long history together as friends and a deep connection. That is the only reason I am trying to find a way to make this work. Relationships aren't about fairness, though. Not in a 50-50 split and reciprocation sense. They are about two people being on a team and operating in whatever way happens to work for both of them together. Is it healthy to have reciprocity that extends to someone occasionally putting in more than their half and pulling more weight when an external reason causes the other to have to pull back? Absolutely. But can one expect that, or really anything, from an insecure dynamic? No. Insecures tend to be triggered differently by parents, kids, family, and/or friends than they are by a romantic partner. Often, the most triggering relationship is the romantic partner, through no fault of anyone's. That may mean he will make different decisions in regards to family than in regards to you. But it's not about fairness, it's not even about you, it's about what he can handle with all his issues. Relationships are often regarded as power struggles, but they shouldn't be. They become a fight over needs when people are not equally comfortable being interdependent as independent. That turns into a power struggle because people are pushing the other to change. But it's not a real dynamic that's inherent to relationships, it comes from people not communicating or understanding their needs, or trying to get them met by others who aren't capable of meeting them. He has control issues. Most insecures do, avoidant or anxious. He needs to be in control to feel comfortable, and the only way to be happy with that is by being someone so independent it doesn't matter what he's doing (which loses out on intimacy and interdependence in a relationship so isn't a trait I'd see as aspirational) or by not being bothered at all by there being no emotional space for you in the relationship. Also not a realistic situation. You can't change him, just as he can't change what you want to suit him (and you don't want him to change you either, you have pent up resentment because you've been trying so hard to accommodate him for so long), so what outcome are you looking for here?
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Lee
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Post by Lee on Dec 14, 2022 5:15:26 GMT
Hi alexandra: Thank you for your kind reply. You are right. I am not trying to change him. I am trying to figure out if there is anything he can compromise on or give me in terms of my needs. He is a control freak. He can be kind and understanding too. It's confusing to me - the dichotomy. He cares for me, loves me, likes me. That has nothing to do with me but his past.
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Lee
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Post by Lee on Dec 14, 2022 16:18:57 GMT
I left him some voice mails saying I was not trying to make him uncomfortable- I was operating on info I didn't have. Moving forward I need to know what he wants. I was clear holidays are important to me - not to have a big hoopla but more "hey I was thinking of you and you matter." He is a good man and has been able to warm up to me and share some personal things. His past made him who he is now. I appreciate the comment here b/c I could not see this from his perspective (because he wasn't explaining it).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2022 15:32:43 GMT
I left him some voice mails saying I was not trying to make him uncomfortable- I was operating on info I didn't have. Moving forward I need to know what he wants. I was clear holidays are important to me - not to have a big hoopla but more "hey I was thinking of you and you matter." He is a good man and has been able to warm up to me and share some personal things. His past made him who he is now. I appreciate the comment here b/c I could not see this from his perspective (because he wasn't explaining it). Posters here gave you perspectives as possibilities, but the only person who can give you his perspective is him of course. He may also be more interested in a casual relationship that doesn't involve sharing family holidays, the only person who can say is him. So you're still essentially operating on info you don't have unless he's explained himself thoroughly.
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Lee
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Post by Lee on Dec 17, 2022 19:15:19 GMT
@introvert
I did ask him. it was nothing anyone said here so in regard to this thread it is resolved.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2022 20:07:13 GMT
@introvert I did ask him. it was nothing anyone said here so in regard to this threat it is resolved. Perfect, that's the way it should be.
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