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Post by bricktopg on Apr 2, 2023 14:47:46 GMT
We started dating 11 months ago, we met on a dating app. Both of us looking for something serious and authentic, aiming for a family and children. I am a male (SA leaning AP) at 35, she is 30 (supposedly FA, self admitted avoidant at the end of the relationship). I was looking for someone non-avoidant after my 10 year relationship with an avoidant (I learned about attachment theory after the breakup, and everything started making sense). I did a lot of work including therapy in the year that followed that breakup and healed a lot. I’m very happy with my family, my friends, my work, I have lots of passions and hobbies, I love to spend time alone, I take great care of myself and my body, and finally felt ready to dip a toe into the dating pool to see what would happen. I did it confidently and authentically and dated quite a bit in the span of 2 months, examining what each girl made me feel. It went exceedingly well, I believe because I was open, authentic, curious, and I knew exactly what I wanted.
I went with the last girl I met, because everything aligned. Same goals and values, self-aware, respectful, communicative, normal relationship progression. We felt a very authentic connection. It felt so healthy, vulnerable and reciprocal. I took great care of her, and for the first time in my life someone was taking care of me. The sexual chemistry was incredible. She kept saying it’s the first time she can project in the future with someone, and that she feels a lot of new emotions she didn’t think she was capable of. She had a history of a 6 year long relationship with a guy that was treating her like a very low priority and that cheated on her. The fact that she said she was very anxious with him and tried to save the relationship even after the cheating, reassured me that she was leaning more AP than anything else, and since the communication and chemistry was great, I felt I might have finally met my person, so I jumped in with both feet, cautiously optimistic. She kept saying how satisfied and proud she was of us. That all her friends were jealous of our communication and healthy dynamics.
We were meeting 3-4 times a week at that point. We never fought, but we did have discussions where she seemed weirdly distressed. We very often validated one another, we always stayed respectful. She seemed very invested and even invited me to travel with her in the summer. We also spent 2 weeks backpacking in an exotic destination. All of these without a single big conflict.We exchanged I love you’s after 5-6 months.
However, I had already noticed some weird behaviors and words. Quite often she would say things that would trigger my AP warning lights. Random sentences that seemed a bit out of touch for someone discussing a common future. When asked, she’d say she just wants to protect herself from hurt. She would be very into physical contact for half a day, and suddenly she would not touch me at all. She often disconnected, as if she wasn’t there. These things weren’t glaring red flags, but I they were tingling my senses enough that I would ask her what’s up. These respectful discussions exhausted her, while for me they seemed so soft and considerate. I have to admit I feel very bad about my behavior now, because a lot of it was coming from an insecure place from me, and being afraid of being hurt. I was ''avoidant hunting'' in a sense. I could smell it, I could hear it, but I couldn’t see it because she never voiced how she really felt it turns out. We’d discuss again in the morning and find solutions and a common understanding, while validating how each of us felt, and I thought we were making good headway. We never had to discuss the same subject twice. It was so refreshing for me compared to my last relationship that was filled with ugly fights and insults coming from my ex, and no real progress.
The1st Breakup
We had our first real problem at 6 months, a week after we exchanged I love you’s. Basically she ignored me for a whole night out (didn’t look at me or talk to me once) because she was people pleasing my friend I wanted to present her to, but I felt so rejected and humiliated I just had to say something when we got home. I said it in a very calm tone, and when I saw she couldn’t acknowledge that she hurt me (she kept saying I’m sorry you feel this way, as if I had imagined it, while at the same time accepting that if I had done the same to her, she would be furious), I just dropped it and we went to sleep. I turned my back and didn’t want to be touched. She contacted me the next day in a cold tone to meetup. I really thought that we’d just have a talk to solve it, instead she blurted the words that she wanted to breakup. I was so shocked and I started asking questions, it just seemed such an over the top reaction compared to what had happened. She changed her mind in the following minutes, and said she didn’t know it was an option to solve these issues, and now she feels ashamed that she reacted that way. I decided to give it a chance since everything seemed relatively great till then. Somewhere I thought there was a real learning experience for both of us. I was really unhappy with my AP overreaction (I should first have asked her why she ignored me, and believed her. I realised I have some problems actually listening when dysregulated, even when calm).
This is when the real anxious avoidant dance started...I suddenly started needing more reassurance and being hyper vigilant. I needed to dig in to what had happened, I was so scared of dealing with an avoidant again. I did manage to center myself over the next few weeks, and started behaving secure-ish again. I also attacked head on my AP tendencies and started focusing on my behaviors. She noticed and said many times how much better the relationship felt to her, and that she was very satisfied in all aspects.
2nd and 3rd Final breakup
After coming back from 2 weeks of holidays that went really well, I felt she suddenly distanced. She would stop touching me, changing our agreements on when to meet at the last minute, have a colder demeanor. Naturally this things were triggering me so I was asking her about it. This nagging (about once a week), brought her over the limit, to the point she again called me on the phone to breakup with me. Again it seemed to me such a blindside breakup. Over the holidays she was telling me how much she loved me, that she wanted to move in with me, that she wanted to buy an apartment with me, how happy she is with the relationship progression…The next day we met to exchange things, and again while asking her some questions and explaining how I see things, she changed her mind, and expressed how much shame she feels over her reactions. She said she recognizes her avoidant tendencies now, and she feels ashamed that when triggered, she cannot reason properly. She described an insane anxiety in her belly, without knowing where it’s coming from. Apparently her head and heart wanted to work on the relationship, but her body was saying no. She talked about a huge childhood wound that our relationship had unearthed, and that she needed to deal with it. She had realised she had avoidant tendencies, but was afraid of talking about them with me because she was afraid I’d leave her. The classic I’ll do everything for you not to leave me, till I leave you. Even she admitted her she felt her inner child was self-sabotaging her.
Over the next week I took some distance to think, and I realised that what I really needed to do, and where I had failed her, was total acceptance of who she is, avoidant or not, and to actually listen to her even if what she was saying was scaring my AP side. I actually managed to center myself and become really secure. Since we now were finally both self-aware, I really thought we could save this by working on ourselves and starting couple’s therapy. She also seemed very enthusiastic and we had so many great vulnerable discussions and moments, where she was talking to me about her childhood traumas. We had amazing sex, she kept telling my how much she loved me while looking me in the eyes. Till the next day, where she called me again to breakup with me. At this point I told her that this is too much. I can’t really work with a relationship where each time I see her name on my phone I start having a panic attack, that we really needed to go to couple’s therapy and take a mature decision.
She took some days to think, and decided she didn’t believe in our relationship anymore and wanted to separate without even trying. I basically agreed that we hit a point of no return, even though I pleaded a bit about how much of a shame it is. We were both focused on growth and from what she says she still loved me a lot, but that love isn’t enough. While having this vulnerable talk, she kept crying, kissing me while muttering she loved me. At the same time, saying it’s not my fault, that she knows what she is, an avoidant, and that she had one foot out the door since the beginning and that she was judging me without saying anything. She says she wants to go back to her old strong self (even though I’m pretty sure that will be her avoidant protective shell, her wounds are so painful she’d rather hide everything under the rug without realising it). She also mentioned multiple times that it's not only my fault, that she couldn't communicate her needs, so I couldn't possibly have met them (when I asked her what those were, she said she couldn't answer this yet, but she did feel she never had a safe space to voice her fears, which I can now understand).
We went no contact, while at the same time she told me that if I wanted to talk and understand things better over the next few weeks I could contact her. In a sense it was a very beautiful and peaceful ending, and I felt a bit relieved that I wouldn’t have to live the rest of my relationship looking over my shoulder for her disconnections.
I still feel she is an incredible person (even the one deep down), that was just dealt a bad hand, and is even more lost than me about it.
Red flags in retrospect:
-She was extremely vigilant and would notice the slightest anxiety in my face, asking me what I was thinking
-She said her dad was an extreme avoidant and that her mother was controlling and did not allow for show of emotions as a child. Meeting her parents always triggers her. She never saw her parents fighting and that’s why she acknowledges she doesn’t know what healthy conflict looks like.
-She really hates conflict. Some discussions barely registered as a slight disagreement to me, but she felt that it was too much and that her ‘’emotional bottle’’ filled up very fast. Apparently she never had had a single fight with her DA boyfriend over 6 years.
-Constant defensiveness, even when I expressed my needs very gently. Always trying to convince me that my needs were unreasonable (all I asked for was consistency, or asking why she was suddenly cold).
-Since she was a child she needed days to recognize her emotions, through years of therapy though, she says now she just needs some hours (alexithymia).
-She went to somatic therapy, because she didn’t want anyone touching her when she was younger.
-I often felt something was off. As if she was acting, or saying things that she thought she should say (which were most often exactly what I wanted to hear, or at least were very mature), instead of things she felt. She seemed a bit disconnected in her facial expressions and this was triggering me, although at some point I just accepted it as her having different facial expressions.
-She changes jobs every 1-2 years.
-She had a work related burnout once, to the point she lost her memory for 3 months and could barely talk.
-After her long relationship with a suspected DA, she only had casual flings with questionable people. As if she felt she didn’t deserver or want anything more.
-Often she would flip flop out of nowhere. Talked about meeting me at night, and finally deciding that she’d rather stay alone for the next 3 days.
-She mentioned multiple times that she waited for me to say I love you first, as if there was some kind of power play.
-She was people pleasing everyone, including me. I thought it was niceness, turns out she just couldn’t express any of her needs.
-Robotic way of writing text messages.
-Everything felt like criticism to her.
-She would still go to extreme lengths to please me and change for me, even if I didn’t ask anything from her. I would actually push her not to forget her friends and hobbies. The only thing I was asking from her was consistency and communication.
I take full responsibility for my AP tendencies. I feel very responsible for my nagging and feel if I had been more secure, we wouldn’t have had trouble. I also realise that these thoughts are self-abandoning. Life comes with troubles and if a single respectful conflict can make someone want to breakup, we wouldn’t have lasted anyway. My avoidant hunting certainly didn’t help, but at the same time, if I hadn’t pushed, her avoidance wouldn’t have come out, and at some point in life some kind of problem would have emerged to make her bail. I’m aware I did not create her past trauma, just triggered it. I still feel so guilty, and am working like crazy post breakup to earn secure. I’m going to therapy, considering extra therapy (Internal family systems with an initiator), journaling, doing the PDS courses, working on reprogramming my behaviors when triggered, etc). I’m really determined to fight this, as most other things in my life I’m quite happy with. I also have to admit I went into the whole ‘’understanding FA’’ rabbit hole. While obsessive, it really helped me understand the problem and not take all the blame on my shoulders.
Now I’m oscillating between two mindsets (which shows I can be just as ambivalent as her I guess).
A) The first one is to cut the cord, focus on my earning secure and healing my own trauma, with the hope that I’ll meet someone that is at the same place as me (although I’ve completely lost my confidence in being able to discern someone secure, I’m not even sure how to detect it anymore). I’m also struggling to have an abundance mindset, since every source talks about how at our age, most single people are insecure.
B) The second one is waiting some weeks and offering to meet her, as she left the door open for this, to see how she is doing, how she feels. I still feel nothing bad happened to make her think the relationship was bad. I have a feeling that since her anxiety went away, she probably sees now how good we were to both work on our insecurities together, and create a great couple. The fact that she’s finally aware, and very into self growth (she started therapy after the first breakup), still makes me believe that she could earn secure bit by bit (providing I’m really working also on earning secure). I know from going through this forum, that this probably comes from my AP side, and that it’s not my job to fix things if she can’t commit enough to stop breaking up every 2 weeks. I still feel it might be good for me to see what’s around the corner, even if it’s a cold blank stare, or her ignoring my message. Otherwise it will stay a mystery for the rest of my life and I have admittedly trouble with this. I like to see things through till the end, to feel that I can integrate the experience properly.
The feeling of giving up while we finally reached the point when we can see the real problem and start solving it, drives me crazy. I feel so lost while grieving.
Some questions:
-Does this seem textbook FA? Should I go for a last meet, even though I’m pretty sure it won’t work out in the end? What if she’s changed her mind but is too scared of contacting me? How many years does a recently self-aware FA need to stabilise if they’re commited to therapy?
-Why is it so hard for an FA to express his needs? I kept asking her what she needed and that it was important for me to see her flourish, still, she always said she was satisfied until she wasn’t.
Thank you so much for reading this, this forum has been tremendously helpful in feeling less alone in this. I’m very appreciative of any advice you might have for me. Sorry for the long post.
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Post by aeropro on Apr 3, 2023 18:16:51 GMT
-Does this seem textbook FA?
Yes, it does. FAs both crave and fear intimacy. It's a constant balancing act between "too much" and "not enough". Once they become "triggered", or "deactivate" which is the more commonly used term, they will go immediately go cold and push you away. In most cases, they won't even explain why (because they don't even know most of the time). They're in a state of being fearful and are acting on sub-conscious instinct from trauma stemming from their childhood and likely reinforced by relationship decisions they've made in their adulthoods. As you state, your ex was in a toxic relationship. Like attracts like, and broken people seem to find other broken people. It just is what it is. Note that her needing healing and your empathy for her and her trauma does not excuse her behavior.
-Should I go for a last meet, even though I’m pretty sure it won’t work out in the end?
No, you should not. This will only further your pain in the long-run. I know it's hard. You can read about my own FA story that I went through a month ago. It's always the same and it's simply not worth it. Her behavior is not your fault. Her ending the relationship is not your fault. Her changing her behavior in order to become a healthy partner for you in the future, is not your obligation. And, frankly, the odds of her seeking that sort of help and making reasonable changes in a time that will make her a suitable partner for you will take years, if ever. She has to want to make the change, and by the time she does, your time would have been better served finding someone more available and ready.
I know that advice is a tough pill to swallow. You loved her, and she loved you. It's incredibly difficult. But it's absolutely in your best interest to walk away and never look back.
-What if she’s changed her mind but is too scared of contacting me?
If she did change her mind and is too afraid to contact you out of her fear of rejection, then that is a blessing. You do not want this relationship. Your anxiety is triggering your own traumas that are wanting you to reach out to her. Your feelings are lying to you, similar to how her feelings are lying to her (rather her sub-conscious processes to be exact). This is not your fault to feel this way, by the way. This is normal. You are in love with the fantasy of who this woman is or could be after *extensive* therapy, self-reflection, and work. As I said this could take years, if ever.
Whether she wants to contact you or not, your best option remains the same. No contact. Block all traces, remove all reminders of her. This is not out of resentment, being cruel, or being un-empathetic. This is for you. I know it's incredibly difficult. I trust you did/do love this woman. However, know that who she could be and who she is are different people. Let go of the fantasy, and begin healing. If she did reach back out to you, the cycle would repeat. You would be caught in a cycle of push-pull/hot-cold perpetually. There simply has not been enough time/effort/reflection/therapy for her to make any sort of reasonable change in her behavior or processes.
Again, this could take years if ever.
-How many years does a recently self-aware FA need to stabilise if they’re commited to therapy?
There are users who are better equipped to answer this question, many of whom are aware-FAs who are currently working on themselves and/or have for many of years. However, I believe a few years (2-3) of dedicated therapy/healing at least. The general advice, and rule of thumb to abide by for your own healing, is that most people do not change. Most people do not self-reflect, introspect, and make the effort to change. There are lots of good people who find themselves in toxic relationships and push other good people away due to their own traumas and lack of self-awareness. We can feel sorry for them, we can pray for them, and we can try and try to explain their traumas to them, but we cannot change them. You can only control yourself and how you show-up, and the reality, again, is that most people do not change.
I believe there is a statistic that only 25% of people change their attachment styles in their lifetime. Lifetime. This woman is 30 years old, and has quite a challenge to change her FA attachment style. Doing that while monkey-branching through relationships will only delay her healing and (likely) further her trauma-trench if she can only withstand toxic-relationships (which is likely for FAs; healthy people they push away... toxic people excite their push-pull sub-conscious thinking that this is normal).
-Why is it so hard for an FA to express his needs? I kept asking her what she needed and that it was important for me to see her flourish, still, she always said she was satisfied until she wasn’t.
They are conflict-avoidant by nature. They don't trust people, nor themselves. As such, they're not even sure their needs are valid or are even needs. Even if they do, they don't trust that you won't reject them if they express them to you. That is why, typically, most "blind-side" break-ups where there aren't any traceable, logical reasons involve an FA. One could argue any avoidant, but I believe FAs are far-and-away the most likely to blind-side someone when they break-up. They live very much "in the moment". My FA broke up with me, via text, after we traded I love yous and she invited me to meet her parents on her birthday. Why? Because in the moment, she felt the need for space. She didn't feel that she could trust me. She had to push me away, because I could hurt her. Frankly, your ex doesn't know what she really wants, because she doesn't know herself. She doesn't understand her trauma, and thus she can't take any action to help herself.
I know this is hard. Very hard. Lean into the fact that you've down absolutely nothing wrong. With FAs, it's an internal battle. There's nothing you can do to help her if she cannot help herself first. It's not your place to help her. I know you're probably a very dedicated partner and more than willing to carry some of her weight for her to make things work. It cannot ever work, however, and once you let go of that fantasy you can begin to heal. There isn't some knight-in-shining armor that is going to sweep this woman away and "fix her" in ways that you couldn't. She will never have a healthy relationship because she is not capable to have one. That is a fact (unless she takes time, lots of time). Pray for her, feel bad her, etc., but do not pursue her. It will just lead to more pain.
I wish you the best in your healing. Again, I know this is a very difficult thing to go through - especially at your age (I am 34 for reference) as the dating culture promotes monkey-branching rather than taking time to heal, be single, and introspect.
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Post by alexandra on Apr 3, 2023 19:50:54 GMT
That was a good breakdown. I want to add a couple additional comments: First, do not blame yourself from the standpoint that if YOU could have just been more secure, your ex would have been magically stable too. I have first hand experience with believing this myself, and going through learning that it is a thought trap and not remotely true. I dated an FA over 2.5 years. We went two rounds: first round I was textbook AP, he was textbook FA, the dynamic played out predictably, he didn't communicate any needs and blindsided me and I blamed myself. But I was also ready to change and live a less painful and stressful life / romantic life, and I started (unknowingly) working on earning secure while I went no contact for the better part of a year. When I felt ready, I got back in touch, since he'd wanted to stay friends. We ended up on dating round two, where I was not totally earned secure but I acted 100% differently and far more secure than the first year of dating. In response, he acted a little more open and communicative at first, then completely repeated all his patterns and behaviors. It didn't matter WHAT I did, he had his own issues he was not addressing at all, and he was going to trigger himself whether I was secure or not. And the more secure I was, the less attracted he was going to be to me, because that's part of like attracts like, and security feeling boring to insecures who aren't ready for a mature and sustainable, smooth romantic relationship. So unless your ex is truly self-motivated and devoted to healing her issues for herself because she deeply wants to change, then your dynamic with her will not change. As said in the comment above, that's a totally personal decision for her and may not ever happen. Even if it does happen, I've had long-term experiences with insecure (now former) platonic-only friends who had years and years of therapy, and even I thought they'd truly earned secure after they made lots of life changes that seemed sustainable over the years. Well, experiencing stress will fully reveal if that's true, and I watched some people I thought change get completely overwhelmed by the pandemic changing their lives. They were unable to cope in the healthiest of ways, and made some very full on @$$-hole choices I would not have expected from someone who spent years doing the work. Point being, sometimes someone can change / heal / grow and become more secure, but deep down their character is still unchanged and they are just selfish and not good people. And whether you're dealt a bad hand or not, character is separate from attachment theory (which I consider a set of involuntary conditioning and defense mechanism patterns, until you gain awareness and want to confront it and change). Putting the attachment style and trauma portion aside, there's still a person in there who makes a set of conscious choices and decisions related to personal resilience, character, and personality. Earning secure does not automatically transform someone into a great person. It can result in someone growing into a great person, or the attachment issues can only be part of bigger picture, and even after growth happens over the years, the person may still be completely incompatible with you, or may not be someone you actually like or respect. So don't get stuck in that fantasy thought trap either of, if only this person could change (in the way I want them to), then everything would be great forever and our lives together can finally truly start. Accepting someone for who they are isn't as much about not judging them and being 100% perfect in that regard yourself, it's being totally honest with yourself about seeing them for who they truly are right now, versus who you want them to be (seeing reality versus potential), and then being honest with yourself if you're really compatible if nothing ever changes. Second, I firmly believe that if you break up more than once, the communication and compatibility issues are too deep for it to be worth it. I can understand trying to reconcile once if you really have new information, even though that usually doesn't work out either. But once you're going for twice, three times, or more, then that off and on unhappy state is actually the relationship. It's not just temporary or how things are until you're back on the upswing, the instability and inconsistency and push pull simply is the state of the relationship. There's no waiting to start your lives together beyond this obstacle, you're already living it, and this is how it is. The exception, in my opinion, is after years of no contact, if both parties independently healed (probably involving earning secure) and changed and reconnect in a way that requires them to get to know a completely different person, then there's a possibility. But it's because it's a totally different relationship, different dynamic, different compatibility levels. Lastly, in regards to recognizing security in a partner. You're right in recognizing that primarily, this is related to your own security (like attracts like!). But I mean this in the sense of, if you are truly confident in yourself and have earned secure, then you trust yourself, you trust others, you have a very healthy sense of boundaries, and you'll hear your gut instincts clearly and walk away if a dynamic isn't calm and serving you well. You'll put yourself first in the first months/year in the early stages of a relationship instead of rationalizing when something doesn't feel right to you. I don't mean you don't care about them, you never put them first, you are selfish, no. I mean, you really are attuned to your own needs and prioritize that over attraction, anxiety, overwhelm, and the feeling of wanting to make something work that is turning out to not actually have a strong foundation. While that will naturally make less secure partners feel less attractive to you, there are still red flags that can help. But it's better to focus on getting to know a person over time and not rushing to assume who they are, gauging your compatibility over time, gauging their consistency, and looking at it date by date: do I want to keep getting to know this person enough that I want to see them again for the next date? That's it. It's about being open to connection, letting everyone be who they are but being honest about compatibility, and honoring your needs in the process. With the right person, you're a team and the relationship just doesn't feel like tons of WORK to maintain, not at the beginning, not after the honeymoon period, not down the line, because you're able to trust each other (deservedly), communicate well and problem solve together. Consistency over time, words matching actions matching feelings, is absolutely the most important of all the flags. I've also got a couple links for you to further explore security in relationships: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2917/turn-secure-share-experiences-tips(Sorry that this one is buzzfeed, but it's actually a good list): www.buzzfeed.com/ravenishak/early-dating-red-flagsAnd there were one or two other forum threads I know would be good for this, but I'll have to see if I come across them again. Lots and lots of info both in my comment and aeropro, so take time to digest it and hopefully it helps with your processing. But stay strong, don't abandon yourself, and fully walk away from this relationship for the time being so you can heal. |
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Post by aeropro on Apr 3, 2023 20:47:08 GMT
That was a good breakdown. I want to add a couple additional comments: First, do not blame yourself from the standpoint that if YOU could have just been more secure, your ex would have been magically stable too. I have first hand experience with believing this myself, and going through learning that it is a thought trap and not remotely true. I dated an FA over 2.5 years. We went two rounds: first round I was textbook AP, he was textbook FA, the dynamic played out predictably, he didn't communicate any needs and blindsided me and I blamed myself. But I was also ready to change and live a less painful and stressful life / romantic life, and I started (unknowingly) working on earning secure while I went no contact for the better part of a year. When I felt ready, I got back in touch, since he'd wanted to stay friends. We ended up on dating round two, where I was not totally earned secure but I acted 100% differently and far more secure than the first year of dating. In response, he acted a little more open and communicative at first, then completely repeated all his patterns and behaviors. It didn't matter WHAT I did, he had his own issues he was not addressing at all, and he was going to trigger himself whether I was secure or not. And the more secure I was, the less attracted he was going to be to me, because that's part of like attracts like, and security feeling boring to insecures who aren't ready for a mature and sustainable, smooth romantic relationship. So unless your ex is truly self-motivated and devoted to healing her issues for herself because she deeply wants to change, then your dynamic with her will not change. As said in the comment above, that's a totally personal decision for her and may not ever happen. Even if it does happen, I've had long-term experiences with insecure (now former) platonic-only friends who had years and years of therapy, and even I thought they'd truly earned secure after they made lots of life changes that seemed sustainable over the years. Well, experiencing stress will fully reveal if that's true, and I watched some people I thought change get completely overwhelmed by the pandemic changing their lives. They were unable to cope in the healthiest of ways, and made some very full on @$$-hole choices I would not have expected from someone who spent years doing the work. Point being, sometimes someone can change / heal / grow and become more secure, but deep down their character is still unchanged and they are just selfish and not good people. And whether you're dealt a bad hand or not, character is separate from attachment theory (which I consider a set of involuntary conditioning and defense mechanism patterns, until you gain awareness and want to confront it and change). Putting the attachment style and trauma portion aside, there's still a person in there who makes a set of conscious choices and decisions related to personal resilience, character, and personality. Earning secure does not automatically transform someone into a great person. It can result in someone growing into a great person, or the attachment issues can only be part of bigger picture, and even after growth happens over the years, the person may still be completely incompatible with you, or may not be someone you actually like or respect. So don't get stuck in that fantasy thought trap either of, if only this person could change (in the way I want them to), then everything would be great forever and our lives together can finally truly start. Accepting someone for who they are isn't as much about not judging them and being 100% perfect in that regard yourself, it's being totally honest with yourself about seeing them for who they truly are right now, versus who you want them to be (seeing reality versus potential), and then being honest with yourself if you're really compatible if nothing ever changes. Second, I firmly believe that if you break up more than once, the communication and compatibility issues are too deep for it to be worth it. I can understand trying to reconcile once if you really have new information, even though that usually doesn't work out either. But once you're going for twice, three times, or more, then that off and on unhappy state is actually the relationship. It's not just temporary or how things are until you're back on the upswing, the instability and inconsistency and push pull simply is the state of the relationship. There's no waiting to start your lives together beyond this obstacle, you're already living it, and this is how it is. The exception, in my opinion, is after years of no contact, if both parties independently healed (probably involving earning secure) and changed and reconnect in a way that requires them to get to know a completely different person, then there's a possibility. But it's because it's a totally different relationship, different dynamic, different compatibility levels. Lastly, in regards to recognizing security in a partner. You're right in recognizing that primarily, this is related to your own security (like attracts like!). But I mean this in the sense of, if you are truly confident in yourself and have earned secure, then you trust yourself, you trust others, you have a very healthy sense of boundaries, and you'll hear your gut instincts clearly and walk away if a dynamic isn't calm and serving you well. You'll put yourself first in the first months/year in the early stages of a relationship instead of rationalizing when something doesn't feel right to you. I don't mean you don't care about them, you never put them first, you are selfish, no. I mean, you really are attuned to your own needs and prioritize that over attraction, anxiety, overwhelm, and wanting to make something work that is turning out to not actually have a strong foundation. While that will naturally make less secure partners feel less attractive to you, there are still red flags that can help. But it's better to focus on getting to know a person over time and not rushing to assume who they are, gauging your compatibility over time, gauging their consistency, and looking at it date by date: do I want to keep getting to know this person enough that I want to see them again for the next date? That's it. It's about being open to connection, letting everyone be who they are but being honest about compatibility, and honoring your needs in the process. With the right person, you're a team and the relationship just doesn't feel like tons of WORK to maintain, not at the beginning, not after the honeymoon period, not down the line, because you're able to trust each other (deservedly), communicate well and problem solve together. Consistency over time, words matching actions matching feelings, is absolutely the most important of all the flags. I've also got a couple links for you to further explore security in relationships: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/2917/turn-secure-share-experiences-tips(Sorry that this one is buzzfeed, but it's actually a good list): www.buzzfeed.com/ravenishak/early-dating-red-flagsAnd there were one or two other forum threads I know would be good for this, but I'll have to see if I come across them again. Lots and lots of info both in my comment and aeropro , so take time to digest it and hopefully it helps with your processing. But stay strong, don't abandon yourself, and fully walk away from this relationship for the time being so you can heal. Adding on to alexandra's comment. You absolutely have the resources within yourself to get through this. The fact you're here sharing your story on this forum is a testament to that. I had only dated my "ex" for 2.5 months, and thought I would never heal from it. I am not "healed", but I am much, much better after 30 days and have accepted the relationship is over, and not salvageable. You will absolutely get there too. There are many, many stories on this forum that you may find value in as well. You're definitely not alone! I know that doesn't make things better immediately. But, again, lean into the fact that you did nothing wrong. It was simply not in your control, and you will find someone who is ready for all you have to offer.  |
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Post by alexandra on Apr 3, 2023 21:01:30 GMT
It's true! And in regards to scarcity mentality, remember there's lots of people out there. Lots absolutely won't mesh with you (and it's okay to feel frustrated by a string of dates that don't go anywhere), but you only need one who does. And there's more than one out there. So, it's more about maintaining optimism that you don't have to force something that's not a good fit.
My husband and I met in our late 30s. It's definitely doable, once you're ready to start thinking about dating again (heal from the breakup first). I did have to stay open to wading through a lot of dates, many insecure, but you just cut them off early and stay open to new connections instead of making "the one" the end goal for every first date, and things go a lot better. I'd say about 1/3 of my dates at that point were secure, the rest were insecure, and of the secure, we still needed to be attracted to each other and compatible... which was maybe only another 1/3 of the smaller pool. So good people certainly existed, but I had to be willing to walk away from the bigger pool of people who would have wasted my time to stay open to finding them.
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Post by bricktopg on Apr 4, 2023 14:42:51 GMT
First of all, thank you all so much for your replies and support. It means a lot to me. I understand that indeed she has really big issues, that have nothing to do with me. Just like I have issues, and am lucky enough that they express in a more relationship-friendly way. I might be beating myself with a stick, nevertheless I just can’t lean onto the fact I did nothing wrong to end this relationship. I’m also reluctant to paint FA’s with a wide brush. She mentioned 2-3 times during the 11 months that she had reached her limit and that our discussions were too much for her. I couldn’t listen properly then (that’s on me, I was listening more to my fears than her), since they were sooo much under my threshold of too much. There was no raising of voices, no disrespect, but ultimately no Non-Violent Communication either. Coming now from an avoidant perspective, I can understand why she feels there was no safe space for her to voice her difficulties. So I was listening to this, but couldn’t fathom a relationship with no conflict, and repeatedly mentioned this to her, that we will need to have healthy conflict to deal with our goals of building a durable family and having children. I take solace in the fact that even though I couldn’t properly understand what she meant, I did react positively to all of his, and worked on my anxious tendencies, reading up on Non-Violent Communication, and accepting her avoidant tendencies, but it was ultimately too far gone for her. Or, and that’s a fresh theory, the fact that our problems started to actually solve themselves, pushed her over the limit, because she saw that this, MIGHT actually work, and that now she actually needed to make a run for it! Things I take accountability for not doing properly, and commit to in the future:
- Interacting in Non-Violent Communication. Actually expressing myself by taking responsibility for my feelings, and actively listening to the other person without judgment to understand where he’s coming from. - Total acceptance of the other person once committed, leaving then the space for both to express their needs without being judged, as well as space for compromise. If a compromise can’t be reached, then and only to you start talking about parting ways in a healthy manner. - Responding rather than reacting. Being mindful of my triggers and thoughts, identifying the core wound triggered, find different possible reasons to explain my reaction and their behavior, identifying my current need, and seeing if I can fulfill it on my own before talking about it to my partner. - Understanding the difference between wanting and needing. - Earning secure, thus minimizing the pressure I’m putting on my partner to meet my needs. That’s a tough one, because I realise I’ve never had a secure relationship, and I don’t really know where the right line is. If you have anything to add to this list, let me know so that I don’t have to go through another relationship to learn an extra lesson During the last breakup talk, she mentioned multiple times the breakup wasn’t just on me. She said that she’d had a foot out of the relationship since the beginning, that she didn’t express her needs and that I couldn’t possibly have satisfied them. She mentioned she was judging me for my emotions (while also saying her therapist commended me for showing up and underlining to her that the emotions she was judging me for, were actually the ones she was struggling so much to show). I’m so thankful that she shared this with me, and it showed me she’s very accountable and self-aware, giving me the impression that we’re both prime candidates to relationally heal. In many ways, she was more emotionally mature than me. The only thing she hadn’t unlocked, was that the pain and anxiety didn’t come from us, but from her childhood trauma. It did feel that she was quite close to realizing this, since she mentioned quite a bit the wound that had been unearthed and she needed to take care of. And this is what breaks my heart and puts me in a bind, being sooo close to working out a solution, just as if we were before the crest. I was finally aware on what I needed to do, and her too. But maybe as you say that’s an illusion. This is what makes me still consider having a last talk and seeing what she has been thinking of in the past month. Or why I would be open for a discussion if she contacted me. Ultimately I think you’re right, and nothing will change, because her trauma response is for now still too strong to supercede her awareness and will to become more secure. I don’t remember where I read this, but I do really feel that at the end I was waiting outside the ring, watching her fight with her trauma, but her trauma won… I also struggle with the fact, that she really didn’t exhibit the red flags you guys mention in the beginning of dating. The maturity with which she was talking about compromise, building something durable, and her intelligence really made me bite. The only thing I could detect this time around, is if someone tells me they struggle to identify their feelings, which came up quite quickly during our dating. I don’t know how many of my mistakes a relationship with a secure person would have allowed. Another element I can take solace in, is that ultimately this relationship made me a MUCH better potential partner for the next one. I discovered that when I’m cornered and stretched to my limits, I always take accountability and find new pathways for growth to accommodate for the difficulties. I’ve also found new strengths and the courage to confront that everything ends, and we are all ultimately, alone on this voyage. As Alexandra mentioned, the death throes of the relationship and the courage and stability I need to show to try to save it might just have bumped me a bit more secure (apart from the fresh breakup phase where I’m understandably a bit of a mess). Ultimately, I need a partner willing to fight for a relationship, secure, anxious or avoidant. I have to admit that my ex, wasn’t it. Even she, mentioned multiple times how cowardly she felt compared to me. And I don’t think this has as much to do with attachment styles, as having character does. If you guys see some opportunity to beat some sense into me, let me know |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2023 15:39:32 GMT
Can you elaborate on the things you acknowledge you didn't do properly? With examples? There seems to be a lot of focus in your posts on the details of what she did or didn't do, I'm left not quite understanding your role in this.
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Post by alexandra on Apr 4, 2023 19:40:07 GMT
I might be beating myself with a stick, nevertheless I just can’t lean onto the fact I did nothing wrong to end this relationship. I’m also reluctant to paint FA’s with a wide brush. No one is saying you didn't do anything to contribute to the dynamic. There are two people building a dynamic in any relationship. We are trying to share that, while you don't need to want to paint FAs with a wide brush, you can absolutely paint the FA/AP dynamic with a wide brush because it always goes this way. It doesn't always go this way at the same speed, it can happen immediately or it can take 2-3 years. But when push comes to shove, read all the many, many posts from different forum members about how their insecure FA/AP relationships progress from start to finish, and the pattern is the same every time. That was honestly the most helpful learning I got from this forum, being able to see example after example of people with different details ending up in the exact same place and dynamic for every pairing type (FA/AP is a bit different than FA/FA is a bit different than FA/DA, is a bit different than AP/DA, but within each pairing the stories are the same with the same triggers and push pull, etc). It finally made me realize that if I truly want something different, I shouldn't keep hanging around for this dynamic staying stuck and hoping for change. It is what it is, and focusing on myself and my relationship with myself (healing for myself and not for another person) was key to growing out of the unhappiness. So yes, you absolutely contributed to the dynamic. By sticking around. You didn't do anything "wrong" in regards to making big mistakes within your control that would have damaged a relationship with a healthier person. But you stuck around trying to make something work with the wrong partner, and it is up to you if you decide when to get off the roller coaster of a relationship that is incompatible and doesn't work for you or meet your needs, and recognizing within yourself when you're abandoning yourself and why (generally happening when an AP's fear of abandonment is triggered, revealing where you need to still independently heal within yourself). That is your role in the dynamic. And this is what breaks my heart and puts me in a bind, being sooo close to working out a solution, just as if we were before the crest. I was finally aware on what I needed to do, and her too. But maybe as you say that’s an illusion. Yes, this is the illusion, and you holding onto it is due to your AP roots. You've already tried 3 or 4 times? Plus however many discussions you've had that didn't resolve. This mirrors your childhood dynamics with an adult caretaker who wasn't meeting your needs, wasn't listening, was inconsistent, who you needed to stay connected to for actual survival as a kid. AP allows you to push down your own needs and blame yourself and make the other person "right" (when there is no real power dynamic or right or wrong, those are constructs in people's own minds, there's simply compatibility). So, you are conditioned to chase people, to chase love, to choose them instead of yourself, to abandon yourself, in order to forgive unforgivable behavior so that you are able to hang on and remain connected in your mind and attached to people who are not fully emotional safe. That's what you should focus on here next with your therapist, not on your ex. So I was listening to this, but couldn’t fathom a relationship with no conflict, and repeatedly mentioned this to her, that we will need to have healthy conflict to deal with our goals of building a durable family and having children. This is correct. If you're with another person who can't see this, that's a big indication to walk away, even if it hurts. Instead of repeatedly mentioning it without progress. There's a big underlying values incompatibility here, and it's a piece of information that should make you look at what you want in the long-term and choose yourself when you see this is not it. That's security, not continually fighting and trying to change her mind or get her to come around differently. Her choosing that is her choice, and she's not there at this time and may or may not ever be. And that choice of hers is fine if she wants to choose it, it just doesn't match yours. Total acceptance of the other person once committed, leaving then the space for both to express their needs without being judged, as well as space for compromise. If a compromise can’t be reached, then and only to you start talking about parting ways in a healthy manner. Again, total acceptance is not about judgement or lack thereof. It's listening and knowing from your past experience with the person that you can work through things together. You're working together to be a team, not to enable the other person's insecurities in the name of being judgement-free. Yes, you should be able to trust each other and that the other person isn't judging you and won't have a foot out the door in response to not agreeing with you. You should acknowledge that whatever the other person feels is okay as long as they're not being abusive and lashing out. But you should still be being honest with yourself about compatibility in all that. When an insecure person is focusing on whether or not they're being too judgemental, it's typically not about the partner, it's actually projection. They wish someone wouldn't judge them and will give them unconditional love because they do not know how to accept themselves properly and give it to themselves. So this is a second thing to bring up to your therapist and focus on yourself about. This impacts your personal ability for boundaries, and if you can get under the underlying issue within yourself, it eventually follows that your ability to naturally do this with others will improve. Earning secure, thus minimizing the pressure I’m putting on my partner to meet my needs. Again, earning secure is about yourself and for yourself, not for others. The improvement in the dynamic with others will follow if you can get good with yourself. I also struggle with the fact, that she really didn’t exhibit the red flags you guys mention in the beginning of dating. The maturity with which she was talking about compromise, building something durable, and her intelligence really made me bite. The only thing I could detect this time around, is if someone tells me they struggle to identify their feelings, which came up quite quickly during our dating. This is normal (especially since she has started therapy and has some tools to work with to override the insecurity during the honeymoon period and before things get really serious). It can take 6 months to 2 years for an insecure person to panic and start showing that inconsistent insecure side more obviously. Because it can take that long for someone's attachment / nervous system to register you as really being a long term attachment figure sticking around, meaning they will eventually have something to lose. Hence, the fears and defense mechanisms kick up. That's why the only thing you can do for yourself is be grounded enough in yourself to be okay whether in a relationship or not, rather than leading with focusing on red flags and hypervigilance. That's where earning secure comes in. It's for your own sanity and quality of life, it's not about your partner. That's why we're trying to shift your focus to yourself and off of your ex. Again, once you're good within yourself, the other stuff naturally falls into place. I don’t know how many of my mistakes a relationship with a secure person would have allowed. You don't know because secure relationships don't work this way. No one's keeping score. You're dealing with things as they come up through the lens of compatibility, that's all. You can work through issues together as they come up, or you can't and realize you're incompatible and should break up. Or you get to know each other better over time and realize there are dealbreakers and you should break up. Ultimately, I need a partner willing to fight for a relationship, secure, anxious or avoidant. And to build on my last paragraph, fighting for a relationship is also a fallacy. Because if you're compatible, it shouldn't be a fight, and it shouldn't be difficult like this. The difficulty and work of a long-term partnership is in doing life together: being a team against external stressors, since life will always bring challenges. The difficulty isn't in chasing each other, fighting for each other, saving the relationship, figuring out how to get along and work hard to meet each other's needs, expending all this emotional energy on how to be happy together with the other person. That's actually all toxic because it pits you against each other, and should guide you to the answer that you can't work together as a team so it's probably not the right partnership. I feel like I've given you some homework here, in areas of self-focus. I hope it's a constructive starting point once you're ready to take the focus off the other person |
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Post by iz42 on Apr 4, 2023 22:13:31 GMT
_"This is normal (especially since she has started therapy and has some tools to work with to override the insecurity during the honeymoon period and before things get really serious). It can take 6 months to 2 years for an insecure person to panic and start showing that inconsistent insecure side more obviously. Because it can take that long for someone's attachment / nervous system to register you as really being a long term attachment figure sticking around, meaning they will eventually have something to lose. Hence, the fears and defense mechanisms kick up. That's why the only thing you can do for yourself is be grounded enough in yourself to be okay whether in a relationship or not, rather than leading with focusing on red flags and hypervigilance. That's where earning secure comes in. It's for your own sanity and quality of life, it's not about your partner. That's why we're trying to shift your focus to yourself and off of your ex. Again, once you're good within yourself, the other stuff naturally falls into place."_ I can vouch for this. As someone with AP tendencies, when I first met my partner I was sure he was secure. His words matched his actions, he was committed, and we were able to work through challenges quite well. It wasn't until just before the 1 year mark that his avoidance really emerged and we started having issues (for one thing I started being triggered anxious). It was confusing to me because things had been going so well. So bricktopg I understand why this part must be especially upsetting for you. In my partner's case, I think that was when the reality of the situation started to sink in for him. He had been in therapy but he had only just started in earnest, and he hadn't yet addressed the underlying issues. I am lucky in the sense that he has wanted to continue to work on himself while staying in the relationship, and he is now aware of his DA attachment style. But I'm still not sure what will happen in the long term. The main thing that has become apparent through the work he has done so far is the depth of his shame, self-punishment, and projection. It's going to take a lot of time for him to work through that stuff and I'm honestly not sure whether he is going to be able to do it in a time frame that works for me and for the relationship. The signs are pointing in the right direction, and we've just started couples therapy, which has been immensely helpful. But I'm just saying that even if you have a partner who is wanting to stay together and also work on their attachment trauma, there are no guarantees. This has been a true learning experience for me in the sense that it has helped me work through my insecurity and come to a place where I know that whatever happens, I will be okay. I love him deeply and of course I will be sad if things end, but I trust myself enough at this point that I will know when/if it is time to leave and I also trust that I can take care of myself. This helps immensely because I don't feel like I need him in order to be okay. |
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Post by mysteryuser on Apr 5, 2023 20:18:26 GMT
I made an account just to comment on this. I'm a 23F (secure/AP) and recently experienced something very similar in a year long relationship where at the 6/7 month mark I was broken up with by someone who sounds like your ex because he "didn't realize we could have conversations about deal breakers" and who I suspect is an FA. He said the thought of it not working out scared him and so he wanted to put an end to it preemptively. We slowly got back, tried to communicate better, felt better, and I happened to trigger one of his core wounds of "no one cares about me" and he withdrew (deactivated?), and broke up saying he started feeling differently (even though his actions never gave me an inkling of this change in feelings) and that working through those things was too hard for him. Long story short, I felt an uncanny similarity to my story when I read your post, because I have the same feelings and questions as you, especially about not feeling confident about discerning secures and guilt over the mistakes I made.
Besides some of the great responses here, one reason why I haven't reached out is because one of the things I value and want in a relationship is the ability to recognize one's own needs *and* voice them, even when it's hard -- especially when it's hard. At the very least, to show you that there is possibility of change and growth, the person is must to able to overcome pain, guilt, and shame after multiple breakups to actually acknowledge their part and reach out to you and ask for what they want.
Also, to be honest, you'll likely find the person you want quicker than her becoming the person you want.
That said, you summed it up perfectly when you said "Ultimately, I need a partner willing to fight for a relationship, secure, anxious or avoidant. I have to admit that my ex, wasn’t it." I know in my heart I wouldn't have given up if he made the same mistakes I did, and that trait of not giving up and finding effective solutions is what I want in a partner. And that's a dealbreaker.
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Post by mysteryuser on Apr 5, 2023 20:41:02 GMT
And to build on my last paragraph, fighting for a relationship is also a fallacy. Because if you're compatible, it shouldn't be a fight, and it shouldn't be difficult like this. The difficulty and work of a long-term partnership is in doing life together: being a team against external stressors, since life will always bring challenges. The difficulty isn't in chasing each other, fighting for each other, saving the relationship, figuring out how to get along and work hard to meet each other's needs, expending all this emotional energy on how to be happy together with the other person. That's actually all toxic because it pits you against each other, and should guide you to the answer that you can't work together as a team so it's probably not the right partnership. Respectfully, I don't fully agree with this. Perhaps not "fight", but IMO there are absolutely changes in behavior that would have be made to compromise and make a relationship work effectively even with two secure people. The way I see it, and please point it out to me if it's just my AP speaking, but the expectation that the problems in a relationship should only come from external stressors is a bit lofty. It doesn't allow for the room for people's unhealthy behavior or unhealthy tendencies and leans towards the notion of "you can't love someone unless you love/work on yourself". In my mind it's a lofty goal to find a perfect fit, a person whose behavior aligns perfectly with yours and there shouldn't be work done to meet each other's needs. Now of course, the intensity of the hard work is a different matter and APs would certainly fawn and be willing to "work harder" due to the fear of abandonment, and that's not healthy. But the way I understand bricktopg's comment is that even if you may have behaviors that don't get along too well with the other person, there should be willingness to make it work within the relationship. Again, those exact behaviors you are willing to "work on" may differ from person to person, but the willingness to work on those behaviors should exist, even if to account for the possibility that an incompatible behavior is spotted years down the line. |
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Post by alexandra on Apr 5, 2023 21:24:24 GMT
mysteryuser I don't think what you're saying is in opposition, you're just phrasing it differently. People should absolutely work on themselves, and there's room for conflict and for healthy conflict-resolution in every relationship. In fact, both are necessary facts of life and relationships. But working through being insecure and all the triggers that come with that is working on bettering and healing yourself, which also makes you a better partner to someone else. That is always worth doing, so you both can more effectively express yourselves and not let fear and trauma patterns be your guide. However, I do not consider this fighting for a relationship. That is separate self-work. There are three parts in figuring this out: your side (your individual issues unrelated to your partner, your responsibility), your partner's side (their issues unrelated to you that existed before you met, their responsibility), and the relationship itself (compatibility and healthy interdependence). You should not be continuously feeling drained fighting for a relationship itself, because if you're fighting for it to work then it's already over due to something fundamentally not working. The relationship itself should work without you being adversaries, otherwise you're not a team, and it's an unhealthy power struggle. Healthy and secure relationships are built on a foundation of trust, communication, vulnerability, shared underlying values... needing to fight for those things means one or both people aren't ready or aren't compatible. And then the relationship doesn't work unless you find someone who wants the same things as you do... or unless you want that kind of tumultuous and never quite secure and committed pairing, which honestly some people do and that's okay too. In the long run, people can change and grow and needs may change as well. Then you see if you still can grow together or if you grow too far apart, which may require honestly reassessing if the relationship still works. If it doesn't, fighting isn't the right word for that, because why force both people to be unhappy with a square peg not fitting through a round hole? But after spending years in a long-term commitment, honest communication and couples therapy should certainly be tried first before you throw in the towel on putting in effort. That's different than having a broken foundation to begin with early on in the relationship, though.
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 5, 2023 21:41:01 GMT
And to build on my last paragraph, fighting for a relationship is also a fallacy. Because if you're compatible, it shouldn't be a fight, and it shouldn't be difficult like this. The difficulty and work of a long-term partnership is in doing life together: being a team against external stressors, since life will always bring challenges. The difficulty isn't in chasing each other, fighting for each other, saving the relationship, figuring out how to get along and work hard to meet each other's needs, expending all this emotional energy on how to be happy together with the other person. That's actually all toxic because it pits you against each other, and should guide you to the answer that you can't work together as a team so it's probably not the right partnership. Respectfully, I don't fully agree with this. Perhaps not "fight", but IMO there are absolutely changes in behavior that would have be made to compromise and make a relationship work effectively even with two secure people. The way I see it, and please point it out to me if it's just my AP speaking, but the expectation that the problems in a relationship should only come from external stressors is a bit lofty. It doesn't allow for the room for people's unhealthy behavior or unhealthy tendencies and leans towards the notion of "you can't love someone unless you love/work on yourself". In my mind it's a lofty goal to find a perfect fit, a person whose behavior aligns perfectly with yours and there shouldn't be work done to meet each other's needs. Now of course, the intensity of the hard work is a different matter and APs would certainly fawn and be willing to "work harder" due to the fear of abandonment, and that's not healthy. But the way I understand bricktopg 's comment is that even if you may have behaviors that don't get along too well with the other person, there should be willingness to make it work within the relationship. Again, those exact behaviors you are willing to "work on" may differ from person to person, but the willingness to work on those behaviors should exist, even if to account for the possibility that an incompatible behavior is spotted years down the line. I am not disagreeing either…but as an FA who leans AP in relationships and has dated FAs who lean avoidant…sometimes, the avoidant can see the incompatibility while the AP partner clings to the “potential”. It has certainly been a wake up call for me that the relationship itself is not the goal…both people have to want to be in it…and also have to allow that one person may be more in it then the other. My last relationship was 10.5 months and boy did it sting when B ended it…but he had been wrestling with doubts and not wanting to hurt me, which is why the break up felt so sudden and 1 sided. Without having 2 people working on themselves and wanting to be together…there really isn’t a healthy relationship…just role playing of insecurities. |
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Post by mysteryuser on Apr 6, 2023 1:33:54 GMT
That is separate self-work. There are three parts in figuring this out: your side (your individual issues unrelated to your partner, your responsibility), your partner's side (their issues unrelated to you that existed before you met, their responsibility), and the relationship itself (compatibility and healthy interdependence). You should not be continuously feeling drained fighting for a relationship itself, because if you're fighting for it to work then it's already over due to something fundamentally not working. The relationship itself should work without you being adversaries, otherwise you're not a team, and it's an unhealthy power struggle. I think I get what you mean. On one hand I clubbed some of the "relationship" parts you mentioned under "fighting for it". On the other hand, the AP in my has definitely taken on - whether or not the other person wanted me to - the partner's side of the work under the guise of "fighting for it", which I recognize and is something I'm working on. thanks for this perspective! |
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Post by bluex on Apr 12, 2023 9:52:37 GMT
Hi I just saw your post and wanted to caution you about a few regular forum contributors here who tend to give rather extreme cookie cutter advice. Instead, you should seek professional advice and resources. Look up resources by professionals like Thais Gibson, Yangi Akiteng, Paulien Timmer etc. Then decide what you need to do to heal, whether that means giving one more try, or moving on and cutting contact. It's different for different people and situations. Only you know best what is best for yourself. The few regular forum contributors here are always eager to jump to the conclusion to say cut and run from an FA, despite not fully knowing details of the situation. But do note that your chances of it working out are very low if your ex is an unaware severe FA. My FA has gotten back together with me and started therapy partly because I exhibited secure behaviours as her partner, and our relationship is now progressing well. I do recognise our chance of success is still not high. Most FAs do not gain awareness and even if they do, they are not willing to go for therapy, and even if they go for therapy, they might not heal. But the chance is not totally zero, unlike what these regular forum contributors insist. If you do decide to give one final try, you need to set a deadline for yourself and stick strictly to it. This cannot drag on for years. Check the professional resources on how to be a secure partner. And know that even if it doesn't work out in the end, you have tried what you could and it's not your fault. With a severe FA, it's mostly on them, not on you. Don't listen to these few forum contributors. They are clearly still carrying a lot of guilt and shame from their past botched relationships and that's why they insist it will never ever work, because the resources and advice from professionals and the success cases, albeit small in number, remind them of how they failed and screwed up their past relationships with their insecurities and unhealthy behaviours. And they are clearly still broken, being anxious about this even after all these years. I don't often check this forum so I have to caution you in advance about them. For example, you can see from their posts that regular forum contributor tnr9 still has deep issues that they are unable to heal and forum contributor introvert is still having a lot of anxieties and immaturity chasing after highs that necessarily come from lows and chalking victories and defeats, that make their current relationship an unhealthy one, with them lacking self awareness from the revelations in their own posts that their partner is clearly suffering and them trying to act like nothing is wrong. And regular contributor alexandra tends to employ black and white thinking that's self contradictory and even hypocritical. For example they will tell you not to categorise FAs in a box as broken but yet at the same time tell you to cut and run from all FAs no matter what, because, well. My advice is to seek professional resources and advice and do what you think is best for yourself and your situation, instead of listening to these forum contributors who are simply projecting from their own insecurities and issues onto you and others so much so they are willing to invalidate professional advice. Otherwise you will just end up as insecure as these few forum contributors.
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