Post by younglarry on Jul 25, 2023 1:02:32 GMT
As a long-time forum lurker, first of all - kudos to all of you, sharing your experiences, thoughts and feelings so openly!!
Would love to pick all of your brains to understand what has happened to me over the last 9 months or so, as someone who is trying to study attachment theory after having (briefly) dated several women with severe avoidant insecurities (FAs and DAs likely). So before someone thinks or says it, I know that the partner I am describing is likely not fit for a relationship now or without any significant work, but I would like to make sense of it.
Situation is as follows:
This story is about a long time acquaintance where the first interaction in 2019 was somewhat of a "love at first sight" moment, and where we hit it off instantly. As we both met on a trip and were living in different cities at the time, we did not pursue anything more seriously and just became friends. We occasionally exchanged messages over the years but never anything that could be construed as more than friendly exchanges. 9 months ago, I moved to her city and we quickly began dating, again hitting it off immediately, going on very long dates and seeing each other 1-2x/week. Things were extremely warm, compassionate and loving. In retrospect, some of it feels like love-bombing as in the first few months, she would frequently just cancel plans with her friends to stay with me longer, sometimes staying multiple days at a time. Perhaps it should have been a red flag, but for both of us, it felt like releasing pent up attraction that we had for each other for years, with amazing sex and deep conversations, and both of us admitting quickly that even our long term compatibility is very high (e.g., plans for kids, where to live etc.).
After a few months, she initiates 'the talk' and we agree to only see each other. Shortly after this, she realizes that she spooked herself thinking about how I might need to meet her parents soon etc. (which for me seemed like a very premature thought to have at this point). She shares that she has fears of losing her independence in relationships and being controlled by others and was deathly scared of asking me whether we could take it a bit slower and be a little less intense going forward. Of course, this was no problem for me as I began to take a long term view on us and personally find that having between seeing your partner and going about your other things (friends, personal time, work) healthy. After I agreed to take it slowly, she was so relieved as she had feared that her request would push me away / lead me to break up with her.
Then, while we agreed to go slower, she still asked to meet regularly, sometimes even 4 times a week, but I did notice that I was no longer such a high priority for weekend meet-ups (weekdays was fine), and the texting became less frequent. She also seemed tenser when we met up, but we still had a great time so I didn't think any of it. A few weeks later, with a few other aspects of her life intensifying (incl very late hours at work, making weekday meet-ups impossible, some severe personal issues with her brother), things went down the drain and she quickly phased me out and broke up. The argumentation seemed bizarre: Given that we had been seeing each other for a while, we would soon need to think about moving in, trips together etc.. She said she really did not want to have a relationship at this point and had almost a visceral reaction to doing couply things (which prior to our "slowdown talk" she had suggested we do) and citing that she doesn't want to be bound by expectations of a relationship etc. She also mentioned feeling physical anxiety in her gut about being a relationship.
Mind you all, the timeline I had suggested above was never something I suggested. In fact, most of the time I asserted that I was likely someone on a slower "timeline" than she is and that while I would like to explore a real future with her, we should just decide on our decisions together based on how we feel and take things at "our" speed, rather than with an artificial timeline in mind. I am also someone incredibly laid back and have never voiced any significant expectations (nor implied them). But she wouldn't budge and insisted to break up.
Here is where it gets interesting: She admitted during our breakup talk that she was ruminating daily about our future for quite a while (weeks!) and even had severe sleeping problems the nights before she came to see me to break up. It was also clear during the meet-up that she still liked me a lot (perhaps even loved me) and she admitted that our time together was wonderful and that I was an amazing person. Nevertheless, she wouldn't agree to just take it forward day by day with me, saying she doesn't want to date anyone (and reiterating that often she took months away from doing anything with men, like it was before we met again) and as she wants to prioritize family, friends etc. Or in her words "friends are more important than lovers."
Now - dear forum experts - based on your experiences and feelings, I would love to get your opinion on this person and how they think, feel etc., more just to make sense of it rather than to necessarily see how I can get her back. For me, there is certainly some significant degree of avoidance here given some of her statements, her getting spooked on any semblance of commitment (even though she suggested), mixed with the very warm and almost clingy behaviour of daily meet ups during the week etc. This leads me to believe its some form of FA, rather than DA. What do you all think? The DAs I've dated in the past typically haven't been as hot and cold, but the experience that has been more like pulling teeth. Also, the phrase "friends are more important than lovers" just intrigues me. She is fully aware of all her avoidant behaviours and what she says yet I just wonder what base assumptions has in their head makes about their lovers if one says that so openly? Is it becuase they fear they wont be around all the time anyway? In our case, there was never any reason to expect that I would leave.
It really appears that she fabricated everything in her head, just to have a compelling reason to override her feelings (that I believe at least clearly exist, and I think the behaviours above support it) - perhaps also based on bad experience with her previous clingy and abusive boyfriends which I am sure were very demanding. Is this textbook self-sabotage of something where she may have real deep feelings and wants to run away?
Any reflections would be welcome.
Would love to pick all of your brains to understand what has happened to me over the last 9 months or so, as someone who is trying to study attachment theory after having (briefly) dated several women with severe avoidant insecurities (FAs and DAs likely). So before someone thinks or says it, I know that the partner I am describing is likely not fit for a relationship now or without any significant work, but I would like to make sense of it.
Situation is as follows:
This story is about a long time acquaintance where the first interaction in 2019 was somewhat of a "love at first sight" moment, and where we hit it off instantly. As we both met on a trip and were living in different cities at the time, we did not pursue anything more seriously and just became friends. We occasionally exchanged messages over the years but never anything that could be construed as more than friendly exchanges. 9 months ago, I moved to her city and we quickly began dating, again hitting it off immediately, going on very long dates and seeing each other 1-2x/week. Things were extremely warm, compassionate and loving. In retrospect, some of it feels like love-bombing as in the first few months, she would frequently just cancel plans with her friends to stay with me longer, sometimes staying multiple days at a time. Perhaps it should have been a red flag, but for both of us, it felt like releasing pent up attraction that we had for each other for years, with amazing sex and deep conversations, and both of us admitting quickly that even our long term compatibility is very high (e.g., plans for kids, where to live etc.).
After a few months, she initiates 'the talk' and we agree to only see each other. Shortly after this, she realizes that she spooked herself thinking about how I might need to meet her parents soon etc. (which for me seemed like a very premature thought to have at this point). She shares that she has fears of losing her independence in relationships and being controlled by others and was deathly scared of asking me whether we could take it a bit slower and be a little less intense going forward. Of course, this was no problem for me as I began to take a long term view on us and personally find that having between seeing your partner and going about your other things (friends, personal time, work) healthy. After I agreed to take it slowly, she was so relieved as she had feared that her request would push me away / lead me to break up with her.
Then, while we agreed to go slower, she still asked to meet regularly, sometimes even 4 times a week, but I did notice that I was no longer such a high priority for weekend meet-ups (weekdays was fine), and the texting became less frequent. She also seemed tenser when we met up, but we still had a great time so I didn't think any of it. A few weeks later, with a few other aspects of her life intensifying (incl very late hours at work, making weekday meet-ups impossible, some severe personal issues with her brother), things went down the drain and she quickly phased me out and broke up. The argumentation seemed bizarre: Given that we had been seeing each other for a while, we would soon need to think about moving in, trips together etc.. She said she really did not want to have a relationship at this point and had almost a visceral reaction to doing couply things (which prior to our "slowdown talk" she had suggested we do) and citing that she doesn't want to be bound by expectations of a relationship etc. She also mentioned feeling physical anxiety in her gut about being a relationship.
Mind you all, the timeline I had suggested above was never something I suggested. In fact, most of the time I asserted that I was likely someone on a slower "timeline" than she is and that while I would like to explore a real future with her, we should just decide on our decisions together based on how we feel and take things at "our" speed, rather than with an artificial timeline in mind. I am also someone incredibly laid back and have never voiced any significant expectations (nor implied them). But she wouldn't budge and insisted to break up.
Here is where it gets interesting: She admitted during our breakup talk that she was ruminating daily about our future for quite a while (weeks!) and even had severe sleeping problems the nights before she came to see me to break up. It was also clear during the meet-up that she still liked me a lot (perhaps even loved me) and she admitted that our time together was wonderful and that I was an amazing person. Nevertheless, she wouldn't agree to just take it forward day by day with me, saying she doesn't want to date anyone (and reiterating that often she took months away from doing anything with men, like it was before we met again) and as she wants to prioritize family, friends etc. Or in her words "friends are more important than lovers."
Now - dear forum experts - based on your experiences and feelings, I would love to get your opinion on this person and how they think, feel etc., more just to make sense of it rather than to necessarily see how I can get her back. For me, there is certainly some significant degree of avoidance here given some of her statements, her getting spooked on any semblance of commitment (even though she suggested), mixed with the very warm and almost clingy behaviour of daily meet ups during the week etc. This leads me to believe its some form of FA, rather than DA. What do you all think? The DAs I've dated in the past typically haven't been as hot and cold, but the experience that has been more like pulling teeth. Also, the phrase "friends are more important than lovers" just intrigues me. She is fully aware of all her avoidant behaviours and what she says yet I just wonder what base assumptions has in their head makes about their lovers if one says that so openly? Is it becuase they fear they wont be around all the time anyway? In our case, there was never any reason to expect that I would leave.
It really appears that she fabricated everything in her head, just to have a compelling reason to override her feelings (that I believe at least clearly exist, and I think the behaviours above support it) - perhaps also based on bad experience with her previous clingy and abusive boyfriends which I am sure were very demanding. Is this textbook self-sabotage of something where she may have real deep feelings and wants to run away?
Any reflections would be welcome.
)
and aren't there cases where it gets better over time? She admitted she was feeling extremely overwhelmed by everything by now so I would hope the external stressors subside soon, making things better too.