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Post by wingedheart on Aug 16, 2024 23:01:06 GMT
I've been trying to understand myself better for the past month or so since a break-up with a (admittedly unorthodox) relationship with a long-distance partner whom I believe is an FA (with the help of this forum - thank you). However, I'm not entirely sure of my own attachment type. I've taken a few tests and both have stated "anxious" towards "secure". I've always felt "secure" up until the end of my last long-term relationship (ended 5 years ago), but have felt very anxious since I started dating after. Hurray, online dating. These have been my relationships/"almost-ships": Age 22-24My first serious long-term relationship. She had just broken up with her boyfriend and was dating him while we knew each other for about a year leading up to us dating. We dated towards the end of college and into the start of our "professional lives". This relationship lasted two years and ended amicably for the most part. However, in the final two months, we did cling on a bit and had an "unofficial" FWB going (i.e., we hadn't "broken up" so still had sex, but the writing was on the wall). The thought of being single wasn't great, but she ended up moving on a month later. While she was in the relationship with the new boyfriend (who is now her husband, kids and everything) she did reach out to me about 6-months into it to apologize and wish me well. I wished her well and there were no hard feelings. *Notably she did drop belongings off to my apartment and said she could "meet in person". I declined, so who knows what her motives were. Ages 25-27I had dated here-and-there during these few years, but nothing really stuck except for a co-worker. She also had a boyfriend and had just broken up. We dated for about a month, but she got squirrely and we parted ways once I got my next big-boy job and moved to another city. She got back with her ex-boyfriend after, but we never talked. 27-30I met my next long-term partner who had also been single for about three years. She was very artistic and had a calm demeanor. This was, I believe, my best relationship. There was no drama! She was very transparent, open and honest, and our relationship was quite smooth for the most part. She did suffer however from anxiety and depression. To my understanding, this could have been an anxious-anxious dynamic? I was much more anxious early on, especially when she gave me feedback once that I didn't have to be "so giving". Perhaps I was sensitive to the "criticism", but ultimately we settled into the relationship. She notably was pursuing a PhD in couples therapy. The relationship became rocky towards the end, I suppose, because we started to grow apart. She was quite liberal, whereas I am conservative. Not just politically, but she envisioned more-or-less having a "hippy/yoga-esque" type of studio for therapy/treatment/meditation and I, at the time, wanted to settle down in the country. To her credit, although things were somewhat uncomfortable during the break-up, I would say that we each handled it well. She moved out of state and we communicated here-and-there regarding mailing back certain belongings, etc. Other than being incompatible, I can only give her high marks as a partner. No cheating, no stonewalling, no being overly needy, or anything. This felt quite secure in retrospect. We were together for 3 years and lived together for 2 of them. 30-34 (dun, dun, dun...)Yikes. I was naive to how dating 30+ was going to be. To keep this short, I've had three "substantial" dating experiences that were not relationships in my 30s. All were met via online dating (Hinge). All of these were done in 3-months. Woman #1The first was a beautiful woman, inside and out, who I very much still respect. She was upfront about her Christian values and very communicative, however I would say there was some "love-bombing". We would send 10 minute back-and-forth voice notes, even after the second date. She was emotionally unavailable as she was on the rebound with someone who she "thought could have been the one". I found this out on date three after we shared a margarita together. Uh-oh. She was brutally honest with me; she said she "wasn't sure about me" after each date which played with my heart. I was an absolute anxious mess during this courtship. I really thought she could have been the one. She ended things, but after two weeks I broke no contact and initiated with her. She agreed, and we kicked the can for another two weeks. She ended it again and I was heart-broken. I ended up sending her an Email a year after wishing her well and apologizing for "not letting go"; she responded and apologized for seeking me out when she should have been healing at the time. I have no feelings for her anymore, but I do believe she was a "good bet". An absolutely delightful woman. Woman #2
This was 6-months after Woman #1. I had just finally felt ready enough to have feelings for someone else and came across Woman #2. She was quiet, calm, and very feminine. We had great conversations and she was quite creative which I admired. I held my own anxiety in check this time and limited any sort of "love-bomby" behavior. I kept my cards close as to avoid getting hurt again. She certainly was more "love-bomby" over text than in person. Exciting and flirty via text, but much more timid and reserved in person. Everything went great for three months, however she disclosed (a day before she invited me to meet her family), that she was emotionally/financial abused by her ex and that she had a personality disorder - BPD. I was ignorant to attachment theory/cluster Bs at the time, and did not judge her. A day after I met her parents, she ended the relationship via text and refused to speak on the phone. Again, this was incredibly hurtful and eye-opening. I was an anxious mess for a good 6-months and didn't even want to date anymore. What was the point? I thought. Woman #3
I met her while abroad with friends. She was very similar to my last ex personality wise, which I liked. She was definitely a love-bomber, and I played along this time. I suppose I was tired of being single but also tired of "not letting the romance happen". We had text and voice-chatted for about two weeks prior to my visit to her city overseas. There, we had an amazing date together which did end up with me going to her apartment for art together, a movie, and sex. We went for a walk the following morning and I parted ways via train back to my hotel. It was probably the most "movie-like" experience of my life. We ended up trying to do long distance, but I ended up "breaking up with her" because she disclosed that two men of her past, one in a nearby city and the other who was her true "ex" who was an American like me, were still in regular contact with her. She would send me photos of flowers they would send to her, vent to me about how both of them "crossed boundaries with her sexually". Yeah. It was just an odd situation and I did not feel comfortable. My heart hurt for her, however, because she was the sweetest person. Very hospitable and soft-spoken, but ultimately it didn't feel right and we parted ways. Notably, we had a bit of an argument at the end of the relationship after her ex sent her flowers and I ended up sending her a firm text stating I wished her well, but would not be communicating anymore. She called, but I did not answer, and that was that. I feel quite guilty for not speaking to her on the phone to this day. 35 (aka now)
I wrote about this woman already on this forum, but to keep it brief, the forum and I suspect she is FA. It was long-distance and I had met her similarly to woman #3, and I had taken a liking to the opportunity to meet women from a bigger city since I have the ability to travel quite comfortably. There was lots of push-and-pull. Early on, I would say she chased me. We spent two weeks together in person and I was still a bit skeptical as her personality was much more "rigid" than the above women. But, the difference is what attracted me. I am quite an emotional person (INFJ personality type, for what it's worth) and emotional women started to seem to be too flakey and impulsive. To clarify, I love emotional women. I love listening, and understanding, and bonding. But bonding just to be ghosted/deserted/abandoned was so painful that I had grown very skeptical of that sort of behavior. So, what the heck. I'd try a logical woman. I was very "on the fence" about her until about 5-months in, when I truly felt close to her and was excited to see her again. But, there were red-flags. Both of her long-term relationships were with avoidant abusers and she had absolutely no relationship with her parents. She said she "hated herself" because of her mom. She said she had trouble with emotions, apologies, and was hyper-sensitive to criticism despite having a fun sense of humor. But, to her credit, she did acknowledge her shortcomings at times. That was until she started to pull away at the 7 or so month mark (a month before my visit). Ultimately her distancing herself led to me subconsciously protesting her behaviors and then boom - the argument that ended up with her blocking me. I didn't expect it to happen, and similar to Woman #1 and Woman #2, I was shocked that it ended so quickly and am now licking my wounds again. Summary
I'm just tired of attracting the same thing. At times, I just feel that there's nothing I can do and it's just how the dating pool is post-30. Everyone seems to be avoidant. But what if I'm FA? Idk anymore. I feel more anxious than anything. I've never felt avoidant in any relationship other than perhaps my most recent long-distance ex early one because, well, I was skeptical. But what if I'm FA and choosing emotionally unavailable people and just haven't had a truly anxious partner? It's not the best streak I have going. It wasn't that I felt "icky" about my recent LDR-ex being loving. It was just... what if I was picking the wrong person again? What if I made the same mistake as I did with my last long-term relationship and wasted another two, three years? But I powered through my doubt, perhaps to not be alone? To have a fantasy? And then it was over just like the others. I will add this. Each woman, other than Woman #1 (whom, again, I hold in high-esteem; she had nothing but good intentions and it was bad timing), rebounded after I was discarded. My first ex? New boyfriend in a month. Girl from work? Back to ex within a week. Second ex? Dated and got pregnant within a month of our relationship ending. Woman #2? Dating apps immediately after. Woman #3? Still talked to her exes. Most recent ex? Dating app within a week. I feel I need at least 3-4 months to even begin to lose feelings for someone I became attached to. The thought of "getting out there" right now, for example, makes me want to vomit.  My therapist and I haven't yet talked about attachment theory in-depth. I had somewhat of a helicopter mom (she and I have a fantastic relationship) and a very avoidant, drunk father. But he wasn't abusive to us kids. He and I don't talk much, but I love him and have no ill-feelings for him. I understand his struggle. I've accepted now that my LDR-ex is officially gone, and I'm so mad about it. Just mad and over it. I bought some running gear and am going to completely change myself. I'm not unhealthy by any means, but have let my physical health slide a bit in the last year and I'm done settling for anything but my best self. I also enrolled in a master's program and am starting classes again. But love? It just seems so fleeting. Thanks for reading. |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 17, 2024 0:12:16 GMT
It will probably help you to look inward a bit more than just looking at your list of exes.
Some different questions:
Do you have a fear of abandonment?
Do you have any fear of being smothered by a partner?
Do you naturally approach others with trust or distrust?
Do you trust yourself?
Do you trust others more or less than you trust yourself?
Are you comfortable feeling independent and on your own?
Are you comfortable feeling interdependent with someone else?
Do you believe you have health boundaries?
Do you have any trouble communicating about sensitive topics or expressing vulnerability?
Do you feel there's a scarcity of potential romantic partners in the world?
Did you have anyone around in childhood with a personality disorder or strong neurodivergent tendencies? This is not limited to parents and can include siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, any close extended relatives.
I'm inclined to assume you have FA boundary issues since you have a helicopter mother and an absentee father. You may have a good relationship or hold no resentment, but those relationships were still going to model and normalize dysfunctional dynamics for you. You'll need to reparent yourself and reprogram your nervous system with your therapist to undo some of that. Even if your parents did the best they could and meant no harm and had their own issues, multi-generational trauma passed on and on always has an impact.
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Post by wingedheart on Aug 17, 2024 0:30:26 GMT
Do you have a fear of abandonment? Yes, but in the past once the relationship has become official, or even close to it, I feel I settle down.
Do you have any fear of being smothered by a partner? No, not particularly. Moreso of "choosing the wrong one" because of my past relationships.
Do you naturally approach others with trust or distrust? Mostly trusting up until the last few years. Now I'm more "trust but verify". I scored quite high in trust in the "big 5" test when I took it. My ex, who is FA (we believe), scored very low for context. We otherwise were similar in the other categories though.
Do you trust yourself? Yes, I do. The only times I feel I "lose myself" are when I'm triggered during a relationship blow-up.
Do you trust others more or less than you trust yourself? Depending on the context, myself in general. If it's something I'm unsure of, like say tech stuff, I'd trust my brother as he's an engineer. Just as as example.
Are you comfortable feeling independent and on your own? Yes, I'm introverted and value my independence. I do like the idea of having space in a relationship early on (1 date per week for a few months). But, once I attach to someone, I feel very comfortable "being alone together".
Are you comfortable feeling interdependent with someone else? Yes, I would say so. I like the idea of "struggle in order to build" in relationships. I.e., find someone who is willing to struggle through the ups-and-downs and stay faithful. Within reason, of course. No abuse or one-sidedness.
Do you believe you have health boundaries? Nope! WIP for sure. However, the few times I've felt I've applied healthy boundaries, I've felt incredibly guilty afterwards (i.e., see woman #3 above when I disconnected from her).
Do you have any trouble communicating about sensitive topics or expressing vulnerability? Not particularly, however in my last relationship (the LDR) one, after she started becoming distant by the third or fourth time I received coldness I became passive aggressive, most certainly. I feel guilty for that still and realize my error.
Do you feel there's a scarcity of potential romantic partners in the world? Yes and no. I feel I need to put in a herculean effort to find the right person. I live in a relatively small town, so it's a bit slim-pickings. That's why I expanded to considering longer distance options. When I feel I'm limited to where I live, I feel suffocated, definitely. When I expand my horizons mentally, then I believe there are lots of options. However, I feel that I am a very loyal person. So, even though my ex displayed some unhealthy attachment behaviors and all reason points to her being a poor long-term partner, it's hard for me to remove her from her pedestal. And it's not a "she's better than me" pedestal. It's her compared to other woman. I had a bond with her, she shared intimate things with me and I think that's a sacred and beautiful thing. How could I just unplug and re-plug into someone else? Yet she can so easily.
Did you have anyone around in childhood with a personality disorder or strong neurodivergent tendencies? This is not limited to parents and can include siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, any close extended relatives. I have an autistic cousin (mom's side) and a schizophrenic uncle (dad's side), but other than that, there are no health disorders or challenges. My mom certainly is a bit overbearing at times (ENFJ personality; my favorite tbh), but that faded in my twenties.
I have self-confidence. I know my value and I know what I deserve, but I feel that I've put so much into myself and being perfectionistic and yet the results aren't there. I'm not looking for the "keeping up with the Jones'" in the cul-de-sac sort of relationship. I value deepness, philosophy, and creativity and someone who feels similarly. I feel many of my partners had those qualities, but we were incompatible due to other reasons (what we wanted, etc.). But as of late, in my thirties, it's been the twilight zone. I feel that in relationships I've been mostly secure until some plot-twist happens. And I recognize that the consistent theme is I'm choosing books (women) with plot-twists in them, so-to-speak. But to what end can I control that? I feel I'm consistent from day 1 to day 180, but the women I've seen aren't. Perhaps it really is just a numbers game, but that's where my scarcity mentality kicks in. Maybe a move to a bigger city would be worth it? I'm not sure.
Some of these women when I look back, if I had listened to "my gut", particularly my recent LDR ex, I feel I could have avoided heart-break. But something in me convinced myself to see it through (i.e., she's logical and a change of pace maybe that's what I need). But then I became attached and she discarded me. But other ones felt right and consistent, particularly the woman with BPD, but then out-of-left-field it's over without any red-flags per-se since she hid a lot of them from me.
A weird thought I've had is jealousy almost of some of the other posters here. They've at least had 2-3 years of having the opportunity to communicate and try, but for me it just seems to abruptly end without the chance to repair. I'm not sure if that's because of healthy boundaries or what? It's just poof, ghosted and plot-twisted into nothingness. Sometimes literally overnight.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 17, 2024 0:44:56 GMT
What I strongly suspect is you had a more chaotic childhood than you give yourself credit for. The issues on your dad's side of the family are serious, and maybe your mom was over-compensating to try to keep it together for you kids. You may be used to chaos and bad boundaries on all sides, and used to excusing difficult behavior, maybe having to idealize people and loyalty to stay attached despite how the severe issues of other people have impacted you and your ability as a child to have your needs met. I think this is where you may want to spend some time exploring with your therapist to uncover what's further underneath. I suspect that's going to be the source of why you're unconsciously choosing women and connecting with people who end up playing out plot twist patterns over and over. And moving to a larger place may help, because dating is partially a numbers game, but you need to try to find somewhere that has other people who share your values (or whatever you aspire for your values to be after doing some growth and healing work) to improve odds of compatibility.
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Post by anne12 on Aug 17, 2024 0:55:26 GMT
Remember that most people have a mix of the different attatchmentstyles, with some secure attatchmentstyle mixed in.
An alcoholic parent , can give you some disorganized attatchmentstyle
Parents who drink are unpredictable and can be scary
FA:
”Mother and / or father or possibly siblings or other close family members have been overwhelming, painful, scary or mother and father's relationship has been. What has happened, has not made any sense to the child at all. The parents have signaled: "Come here and stay away!" Or have switched between extreme conditions without regard to the child's signals. It happens, for example, if the adults are toxicated. For children it is very scary with a alcoholic parent!
Parents may have put the child in situations, where the child had to chose, regardless of what it chooced - would feel wrong. For example, one could choose between taking care of her mother, making her happy while ignoring herself and her well-being. Or another example: That mother threatened suicide, or went away and maybe gone for several hours. Or a third example: to choose between mother and father and similar bad situations! Or there has been an abuse in the family, either something you've been exposed to, or something you've witnessed.
The child may suffer exposure to:
Loud voices
Explosive behavior
Emotional abuse
Physical abuse
Sexual abuse
A parent with a mental illness/depression
a parent with unresolved trauma
A parent with NPD, BPD, ASPD ect.
An alcoholic parent
Parents who argued a lot Infront of the child
A parent with stress
A parent with an unregulated nerveussystem
ect.
As an adult, love is therefore scary, while you need it. It shows up in the instinktive level of the brain/nerveussystem. It´s trauma. This is a level that lies deeper than both feelings and thoughts.
The parents themselves may be afraid, just generating “emergency room energy” from their own unresolved trauma in their past. They may not actually be doing something scary like yelling or hitting or being abusive, but they might also have those behaviors, so you have to look at what was the situation; in either case you get a strong overcoupling, a strong tangling-up of the attachment system trying to attach, and at the very same time, the survival system locking in, trying to get to safety and get away. So it creates a lot of internal physical, psychological, and emotional confusion, which then gets transferred into adult relationships;
and because so much of it is pre-verbal, sub-psychological and unconscious, you might attain a certain level of intimacy with your partner, and then – without having any clue why – just hit this terror, hit this disorganization and feel this strong need to get away. It’s really hard on adult relationships, because you or your partner do not really know why it’s happening. It was so deeply patterned in your internal relationship template before awareness was available to make sense of it – a conditioned, “reflexive” relationship pattern wrecking havoc years later, uninvited, into your intimate dyadic relationship.
Remember there are other situations that can give trauma/push you int desorganized attatchment style (operations, bullying, accident, bad relationsships, a death early in life ect. …”
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Post by wingedheart on Aug 17, 2024 1:02:41 GMT
What I strongly suspect is you had a more chaotic childhood than you give yourself credit for. The issues on your dad's side of the family are serious, and maybe your mom was over-compensating to try to keep it together for you kids. You may be used to chaos and bad boundaries on all sides, and used to excusing difficult behavior, maybe having to idealize people and loyalty to stay attached despite how the severe issues of other people have impacted you and your ability as a child to have your needs met. I think this is where you may want to spend some time exploring with your therapist to uncover what's further underneath. I suspect that's going to be the source of why you're unconsciously choosing women and connecting with people who end up playing out plot twist patterns over and over. And moving to a larger place may help, because dating is partially a numbers game, but you need to try to find somewhere that has other people who share your values (or whatever you aspire for your values to be after doing some growth and healing work) to improve odds of compatibility. Thank you I will bring this up with my therapist. I took four different quizzes after posting this thread. I received "Anxious Preoccupied" for three and then "Securely Attached" for one, however I do not believe I'm Secure. This particular quiz (through Thais Gibson) bundled romantic relationships with friendships too much I believe... So some questions that I would want to answer "yes" I had to answer "no", etc. because it looped both in. When I read about FA I don't resonate as much with it. How do APs and anxious FAs behave differently when choosing partners? Do APs "get out" of toxic relationships before due to protesting? Or do FAs and DAs blow up sooner? |
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Post by wingedheart on Aug 17, 2024 1:09:36 GMT
An alcoholic parent , can give you some disorganized attatchmentstyle Parents who drink are unpredictable and can be scary FA: ”Mother and / or father or possibly siblings or other close family members have been overwhelming, painful, scary or mother and father's relationship has been. What has happened, has not made any sense to the child at all. The parents have signaled: "Come here and stay away!" Or have switched between extreme conditions without regard to the child's signals. It happens, for example, if the adults are toxicated. For children it is very scary with a alcoholic parent! Parents may have put the child in situations, where the child had to chose, regardless of what it chooced - would feel wrong. For example, one could choose between taking care of her mother, making her happy while ignoring herself and her well-being. Or another example: That mother threatened suicide, or went away and maybe gone for several hours. Or a third example: to choose between mother and father and similar bad situations! Or there has been an abuse in the family, either something you've been exposed to, or something you've witnessed. The child may suffer exposure to: Loud voices Explosive behavior Emotional abuse Physical abuse Sexual abuse A parent with a mental illness/depression a parent with unresolved trauma A parent with NPD, BPD, ASPD ect. An alcoholic parent Parents who argued a lot Infront of the child A parent with stress A parent with an unregulated nerveussystem ect. As an adult, love is therefore scary, while you need it. It shows up in the instinktive level of the brain/nerveussystem. It´s trauma. This is a level that lies deeper than both feelings and thoughts. The parents themselves may be afraid, just generating “emergency room energy” from their own unresolved trauma in their past. They may not actually be doing something scary like yelling or hitting or being abusive, but they might also have those behaviors, so you have to look at what was the situation; in either case you get a strong overcoupling, a strong tangling-up of the attachment system trying to attach, and at the very same time, the survival system locking in, trying to get to safety and get away. So it creates a lot of internal physical, psychological, and emotional confusion, which then gets transferred into adult relationships; and because so much of it is pre-verbal, sub-psychological and unconscious, you might attain a certain level of intimacy with your partner, and then – without having any clue why – just hit this terror, hit this disorganization and feel this strong need to get away. It’s really hard on adult relationships, because you or your partner do not really know why it’s happening. It was so deeply patterned in your internal relationship template before awareness was available to make sense of it – a conditioned, “reflexive” relationship pattern wrecking havoc years later, uninvited, into your intimate dyadic relationship. Remember there are other situations that can give trauma/push you int desorganized attatchment style (operations, bullying, accident, bad relationsships, a death early in life ect. …” Thank you for this. Here are my results for an attachment replacement:    |
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Post by anne12 on Aug 17, 2024 1:14:56 GMT
A test is not able to register your body language, your voice ect. jebkinnisonforum.com/post/29827/“Tests: Why you often Can not rely on an attatchment style test. It is more complicated. In the UK people can take a special 1 year education to be able to test people's attatchment styles. The test itself takes 3 days with subsequent analysis. When they test they use video recording so they can see how does the client respond not only on paper but they look at how you reply, the way you talk, your body language and your facial expressions, what you do with your hands and your feet, your tone of voice, the words you use ect. We also develop from our first experiences in life until now. We can't remember what has happend to us before we were around 2-3 years old, we dident have a language then and the cognitive part of our brain wasn't developed yet. On good days you will often get a more secure answer, on bad days a more insecure test result. If you are in a good mood you will often remember more of the good things and if you are in a bad mood you will have a tendencie to remember the bad stuff. You can go from secure from birth and then something bad has happend to you later in life, so that you will become more insecure or the other way around. Are you in a relationship or not. Are you with a more secure person or are you in a relationship with an insecure person. Your relationship with your mother then and now. Your relationship with your dad then and now. Other relationships in your life. Has there been a brake in the bond because of different reasons - expecially with your mother Your relationship history and the length of your relationships. Who broke up, why and when. Other traumatic experiences in your life - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/12359/Accidents , bullying ect. Shock trauma Your physical health Your mental health What is your Main problem You want the therapist to help you get fixed ? E.g. if you always meet the wrong ones - then the therapist will think that you proberly got some ap attatchmentstyle and maybe also some desorganised attatchment style. If you are or you have been in relationships with dramas, underdog/overdog dynamics, powerstrugles, crossed boundaries then the therapist can be aware of some trauma/desorganised attatchment style If you almost never get into relationships the therapist can be aware of some dismissive avoidant attatchment style - the early one or the one developed later in life (given up state) An attatchment, SE therapist jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1188/attatchment-style-decription-relying-thetests |
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Post by anne12 on Aug 17, 2024 2:11:47 GMT
jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/3040/bodylanguage-speachpatterns-voicetone-attatchmentstylesAmbivalent: The bodylanguage of the ambivalent: They articulate a lot with their body, they can use a lot of facical expressions and they can seem very much "alive". You can often watch how their feelings can come out of their body. Some types of ambivalents can sometimes collaps into tears. They often lean forward, when they are talking to you. They seek eyecontact ect. they are very social They can be very charming They like to talk about feelings - sometimes they can get overwhelmed by their own feelings In a conversation they can suddenly remember something they have felt once, and then they can get all comsumed about their own feelings and experiences and they can forget about you and what you were talking about They can be very emotionel They can talk a lot or just listen and ask questions They can be overfocused on you and they can therefore leave themselves They can be more feminine leaning They are often more symphathetic leanig They can talk A LOT They like to recieve and give an eyegaze and touch They can be very attuned They want external regulation Their attachment system is too ON They feel they can only settle or get needs met by others They use many words They have a lot of emotions They can have lots of negative complaints Some can be more quiet and can get sad Some can be more conplaining and can get angry They can mix Past/Present Brain dominance - Stronger on RIGHTemisphere May flood with emotions Stuck in Past Ambivalent can push others away by asking, talking, and overwhelming, especially with avoidant. They go over-and-over old injuries and can have difficulty letting go, which often wear down those around them. Ambivalent can lean toward the negative May over-state their injuries and amplify them Overly-focused on abandonment Often creates disharmony with exaggerated responses Their abandoment fears shows up when they have to recieve (love, care and connection) Dismissive avoidant: The energy in their body goes up from their body and up in the head. This can give Them tension around the head and can give them a headace. They can seem a little stiff in their body Some of them dont use a lot of facical expression They do not express a lot with their arms and hands They can have trouble feeling their body from their neck and down You can confuse them with a secure person They often do not use a lot of words If you ask how they are feeling, they can get confused They can have trouble keeping eyecontact Because they can find it difficult feeling their body, sometimes they can ignore (serious) injuries from doing sports ect. They cant always feel if they are hungry, so they can look at their watch, to find out if they are hungry They dont not share a lot about themselves on an emotionel level They can lean back when you are talking to them They can talk about something intellectual, practical, they can talk about something that interests them They can get overwhelmed by other peoples talk, feelings, emotions and questions They can forget to ask questions They can be harsh, blunt, have low patience treshold, wants to get to the point of the story They can give practical advise They often do not know how to be with their own and other peoples emotions The avoidant can pull back from the contact. They can be in the same room and be close while checking out of the contact. Their mind can wander. If you ask them how they are feeling, they have to go up in their head to think about how they are feeling They can be more masculine leaning They are often more parasympathetic leaning They can be in freeze or in funtionel freeze They are more future focused They often think that everything has been just fine in their childhood They use Auto-Regulation They can be Dissociative Their attachment System shuts down / their attatchment system is underactivated They use few words (minimalist) They might lack emotional vividness They are factual They can be positive They are often visuel and can speak in pictures Brain dominance - they are more oriented to LEFT hemisphere They are focused on future (do not talk much about the past or the now) Desorganied / FA: There is a lot of energy in their Body from the stomac and up in the upper Body. They can stiffen in their upper body and they can feel very tired. They are used to being alert. They can feel parts of their body and other parts they may not feel because of dessociation They can also be very expressive with their face or if they have dessociated they can stiffen and.have.a.pail skin The disorganised can suddenly jump back when in contact, They can be "drama" queens/kings Their mood can go up and down They can go way out of their window of tolerance The disorganised can suddenly jump back when in contact, pick a fight or go into collaps/freeze They can overshare They can cross their own or other peoples boundaries when in contact They can touch you without asking They can be very flitacious They can be shy They may be difficult to follow Challenging to keep on track They can use start-stop languaging They can trail off in conversations, and can sometimes be a little confused They can be very feminine leaning or very masculine leaning They can be very intense They can get stuck in a trauma whirlwind They can be very facinating and almost irresistable to be with Sometimes they cant talk or hear because they have gone into a freeze state and the cranial nerve to their voicebox has shut down Their nerveussystem can swing like a pendulum with too much speed from sympathetic to parasympathetic states They can have fight, flight, freeze, collapse, fawn reactions They can cry a lot and can be very intence Sometimes they can talk way too fast They can warn out their partner with their intence reactions. Their mood can change a lot. From being happy to suddenly being sad or angry ect. That's because they go into their trauma whirlwind. They can have a tendency to be late - because they lost their key, they missed their train, they took the wrong highroad ect. They can be both sympathetic and/or parasympathetic leaning They can be in a freeze state or in a functionel freeze state They can lean more da or more ap
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Post by alexandra on Aug 17, 2024 6:15:13 GMT
I like the idea of "struggle in order to build" in relationships. I.e., find someone who is willing to struggle through the ups-and-downs and stay faithful. I also wanted to comment on this. There is a more secure way to look at romantic partnerships, which is, how do we resolve conflict together, and how do we both approach stress? Are we both whole enough on our own to be mostly mature and emotionally regulated when we come together and deal with issues? Thinking about it in the ride or die way is idealizing the relationship and actually blurring each person's boundaries together. Yeah, sometimes you'll have disagreements to work through, but overall the relationship should be reasonably consistent and always building trust. Looking for someone who thinks you need to struggle to get there and prove yourselves to each other, or that life needs to be a constant struggle, is going to get you someone leaning into fantasy idealization and drama. That may get you passion but it won't get you sustainability. Based on the other stuff you wrote, I mulled it over a bit more and I suspect you're indeed AP not FA, but you may sometimes bounce into disorganized traits under a lot of stress because you saw that on your dad's side of the family growing up. So there may be some dysfunctional FA defense mechanisms mixed up in there but I think your attachment test results of overall AP track against the rest of what you shared. But, in my not-professional opinion, that label and distinction is less important for now than focusing on what I called out about the early life family and boundaries part. I don't think any specific insecure style blows up a relationship sooner. It's instead more about how insecure and aware/unaware someone is. It is a spectrum, and I think the more unaware you are the faster you're going to blow things up. Whether that's through deactivation, self-sabotage, pushing the other person away through codependency and having zero boundaries, fear of commitment, etc., some of those specifics may happen more with one attachment type than the others. AP do tend to stay in toxic relationships way way way too long, but DA and avoidant FA can have phantom exes forever and stay stuck as well, it's just after the fact. |
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Post by kirrok on Aug 17, 2024 14:47:56 GMT
All that the overthinking and rumination is likely to do is send you into a tailspin and prevent you from feeling what you need to feel, and grieving the various losses that are important to you. The rumination becomes a coping strategy to avoid feeling difficult things. Also, the focus on the minutiae of your past interactions with other people through the lens of attachment theory isn't likely to help you. For one, we're all complex beings and there are so many extenuating, contextual factors that affect how we relate to each other and behave, and using attachment theory is only one lens to understand anything. People aren't automatons whose behavior can be reverse engineered to understand what drove them and led to their behavior. Neither is your own behavior. In that sense, thinking that you can avoid certain outcomes – or direct outcomes a certain way – by leveraging attachment theory as if it's some kind of recipe to control other people's or your own behavior is folly. Not only that, it doesn't work that way.
The reason anyone repeats a pattern is due to unresolved, unintegrated trauma/wounding, and/or learned behaviors based on past experiences. And, generally speaking, the intensity of your re-occurring patterns points to how big the wound is; the harder the undesirable pattern is to break, the bigger the root wound(s) it points to.
If you want your relationships to improve overall, focus on your own stuff – that's all you have agency over, anyway. The patterns you experience are in you, not in other people. The dating pool, for example, is no more full of avoidant people than it is of anxious people. In a sense, we call people to us based on how we show up in the world. In those instances in which you encounter someone who seems to exhibit behaviors and protective strategies that aren't a good fit for you, you work on yourself first so that you can recognize those behavioral characteristics before inviting those people into your life. At minimum you'll be able to make a more informed decision about who you invite in, and what behavior you'll accept and tolerate, rather than unconsciously (or less consciously) repeating those patterns.
What are you feeling in your body? What emotions do those sensations bring up for you? Start there, and focus on those feelings and emotions because they are the path to your 'salvation' and healing.
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Post by wingedheart on Aug 17, 2024 18:30:45 GMT
I like the idea of "struggle in order to build" in relationships. I.e., find someone who is willing to struggle through the ups-and-downs and stay faithful. Thinking about it in the ride or die way is idealizing the relationship and actually blurring each person's boundaries together. Yeah, sometimes you'll have disagreements to work through, but overall the relationship should be reasonably consistent and always building trust. Looking for someone who thinks you need to struggle to get there and prove yourselves to each other, or that life needs to be a constant struggle, is going to get you someone leaning into fantasy idealization and drama. That may get you passion but it won't get you sustainability. Based on the other stuff you wrote, I mulled it over a bit more and I suspect you're indeed AP not FA, but you may sometimes bounce into disorganized traits under a lot of stress because you saw that on your dad's side of the family growing up. So there may be some dysfunctional FA defense mechanisms mixed up in there but I think your attachment test results of overall AP track against the rest of what you shared. But, in my not-professional opinion, that label and distinction is less important for now than focusing on what I called out about the early life family and boundaries part. I don't think any specific insecure style blows up a relationship sooner. It's instead more about how insecure and aware/unaware someone is. It is a spectrum, and I think the more unaware you are the faster you're going to blow things up. Whether that's through deactivation, self-sabotage, pushing the other person away through codependency and having zero boundaries, fear of commitment, etc., some of those specifics may happen more with one attachment type than the others. AP do tend to stay in toxic relationships way way way too long, but DA and avoidant FA can have phantom exes forever and stay stuck as well, it's just after the fact. Yes - this is my standing. I don't want there to be conflict, but I know it's inevitable and I think that repairing after overcoming disagreements and having to compromise can bring a couple closer together. I'm certainly not seeking a relationship where each partner is alternating between climbing Mount Doom for the other (Lord of the Rings reference). But, life brings uncertainties. I have definitely felt that in my most recent relationship and my courtships leading up to that there couldn't be such a setting for compromise. With my LDR ex in particular, early on there was a time where she "forgot" to respond to me for two days and she didn't apologize directly and said that I shouldn't expect verbal apologies but that "she would feel sorry and guilty". How can someone expect to have a relationship while behaving that way? Do they think that some perfect person will come along and make them feel good all the time? It warps my mind. But then there's me - why would I expect that behavior to change? Why did I settle for that? I appreciate you taking the time to read my post. To be honest, when I started reading this attachment stuff I felt AP was the "best" of the insecure types, but not anymore. I think each has its own baggage. I might add that I believe avoidants have larger hurdles in many ways. But knowing what I am is the first time to addressing some of my issues. I certainly feel better already and it's just shy of the 1-month "break-up" which is the quickest I've recovered relative to prior relationships/courtships. Perhaps I'm starting to view things objectively. I think a large part of my attraction to her was a trauma bond as you stated in my earlier thread. But there were a few times that I really felt "calm" with the idea of ending things. I consulted my therapist and friends about it and told them that I felt attracted to her, but worried about the compatibility aspect. I'm not sure why I didn't end things sooner. It didn't feel attachment related. But it might have been the whole "savior" feeling because I knew she had a rough child-hood, etc. She didn't deserve that. But I also don't deserve to have to fix someone... I do appreciate everyone in this thread. For the first time I've accepted that reconciliation isn't an option. I held on to a fantasy for the last month or so of "doing better so I'm better for her" when she comes back. But now, I want to reach a point that I don't even want to get back together if she does return. Because after reading so much, I know that entertaining it after only a few months is simply my anxiousness/attachment wound giving in to the "dance" and that it will repeat again. So, I'm going to focus on myself and participate in a lot of self-care activities. I have a goal for the end of October to reach some fitness marks and I'm motivated by that. By then, if I'm like how I've been, I'll be regulated and not "lost in my feelings" over the break-up so when I'm ready to date again I feel confident and in a better place. I don't necessarily find myself ruminating so much as it what went wrong. I feel I have a good grip as to why everything went the way it did. I just want to make sure I'm focusing on the right aspects of the break-up so I don't repeat this pattern. I do believe that in the dating pool, to be fair, there seems to be a considerable amount of avoidants for whatever reason. I'd wager more than anxious or definitely secure. If an avoidant lands with a secure, the secure will walk away, but if an anxious lands with a secure, I believe there's a higher chance of a relationship forming. I read a study that secures make APs more secure, whereas an DA or FA actually makes the secure more anxious. But, it's all data and doesn't ultimately change my path moving forward. I would say for the first three or so weeks I felt lethargic, especially because I had (unrelated) domestic travels which reminded me that I wouldn't be seeing her. Just me in big lonely airports. That was quite tough and I'd post here or read quite a bit to cope. But now that I've finished my travels, I'd say I'm doing okay. I give myself time on my runs/scenic car rides to process the break-up and as I said early I do feel a bit more objective in my thoughts now. |
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 18, 2024 1:46:52 GMT
I also wanted to comment on this. There is a more secure way to look at romantic partnerships, which is, how do we resolve conflict together, and how do we both approach stress? Are we both whole enough on our own to be mostly mature and emotionally regulated when we come together and deal with issues? Thinking about it in the ride or die way is idealizing the relationship and actually blurring each person's boundaries together. Yeah, sometimes you'll have disagreements to work through, but overall the relationship should be reasonably consistent and always building trust. Looking for someone who thinks you need to struggle to get there and prove yourselves to each other, or that life needs to be a constant struggle, is going to get you someone leaning into fantasy idealization and drama. That may get you passion but it won't get you sustainability. Based on the other stuff you wrote, I mulled it over a bit more and I suspect you're indeed AP not FA, but you may sometimes bounce into disorganized traits under a lot of stress because you saw that on your dad's side of the family growing up. So there may be some dysfunctional FA defense mechanisms mixed up in there but I think your attachment test results of overall AP track against the rest of what you shared. But, in my not-professional opinion, that label and distinction is less important for now than focusing on what I called out about the early life family and boundaries part. I don't think any specific insecure style blows up a relationship sooner. It's instead more about how insecure and aware/unaware someone is. It is a spectrum, and I think the more unaware you are the faster you're going to blow things up. Whether that's through deactivation, self-sabotage, pushing the other person away through codependency and having zero boundaries, fear of commitment, etc., some of those specifics may happen more with one attachment type than the others. AP do tend to stay in toxic relationships way way way too long, but DA and avoidant FA can have phantom exes forever and stay stuck as well, it's just after the fact. Yes - this is my standing. I don't want there to be conflict, but I know it's inevitable and I think that repairing after overcoming disagreements and having to compromise can bring a couple closer together. I'm certainly not seeking a relationship where each partner is alternating between climbing Mount Doom for the other (Lord of the Rings reference). But, life brings uncertainties. I have definitely felt that in my most recent relationship and my courtships leading up to that there couldn't be such a setting for compromise. With my LDR ex in particular, early on there was a time where she "forgot" to respond to me for two days and she didn't apologize directly and said that I shouldn't expect verbal apologies but that "she would feel sorry and guilty". How can someone expect to have a relationship while behaving that way? Do they think that some perfect person will come along and make them feel good all the time? It warps my mind. But then there's me - why would I expect that behavior to change? Why did I settle for that? I appreciate you taking the time to read my post. To be honest, when I started reading this attachment stuff I felt AP was the "best" of the insecure types, but not anymore. I think each has its own baggage. I might add that I believe avoidants have larger hurdles in many ways. But knowing what I am is the first time to addressing some of my issues. I certainly feel better already and it's just shy of the 1-month "break-up" which is the quickest I've recovered relative to prior relationships/courtships. Perhaps I'm starting to view things objectively. I think a large part of my attraction to her was a trauma bond as you stated in my earlier thread. But there were a few times that I really felt "calm" with the idea of ending things. I consulted my therapist and friends about it and told them that I felt attracted to her, but worried about the compatibility aspect. I'm not sure why I didn't end things sooner. It didn't feel attachment related. But it might have been the whole "savior" feeling because I knew she had a rough child-hood, etc. She didn't deserve that. But I also don't deserve to have to fix someone... I do appreciate everyone in this thread. For the first time I've accepted that reconciliation isn't an option. I held on to a fantasy for the last month or so of "doing better so I'm better for her" when she comes back. But now, I want to reach a point that I don't even want to get back together if she does return. Because after reading so much, I know that entertaining it after only a few months is simply my anxiousness/attachment wound giving in to the "dance" and that it will repeat again. So, I'm going to focus on myself and participate in a lot of self-care activities. I have a goal for the end of October to reach some fitness marks and I'm motivated by that. By then, if I'm like how I've been, I'll be regulated and not "lost in my feelings" over the break-up so when I'm ready to date again I feel confident and in a better place. I don't necessarily find myself ruminating so much as it what went wrong. I feel I have a good grip as to why everything went the way it did. I just want to make sure I'm focusing on the right aspects of the break-up so I don't repeat this pattern. I do believe that in the dating pool, to be fair, there seems to be a considerable amount of avoidants for whatever reason. I'd wager more than anxious or definitely secure. If an avoidant lands with a secure, the secure will walk away, but if an anxious lands with a secure, I believe there's a higher chance of a relationship forming. I read a study that secures make APs more secure, whereas an DA or FA actually makes the secure more anxious. But, it's all data and doesn't ultimately change my path moving forward. I would say for the first three or so weeks I felt lethargic, especially because I had (unrelated) domestic travels which reminded me that I wouldn't be seeing her. Just me in big lonely airports. That was quite tough and I'd post here or read quite a bit to cope. But now that I've finished my travels, I'd say I'm doing okay. I give myself time on my runs/scenic car rides to process the break-up and as I said early I do feel a bit more objective in my thoughts now. I used to feel this way…that there were a lot more avoidants in the dating pool…until I realized I wasn’t really looking at the “dating pool” as much as I was looking at my own history of attraction. Since I leaned anxious as a Fearful avoidant, it made sense that I would pay attention to all the avoidants. Honestly, if you really want to change who you date, you need to first address your own attachment wounding. There really isn’t another way around this….deal with your core wounding and over time, the attraction to any insecure person will diminish because internally you have changed. Just be prepared however that as you address the wounding, you may have periods of feeling more insecure and desiring an insecure pairing….just remind yourself that this is part of the healing journey and over time and with healing….that desire will decrease. I honestly haven’t been interested in a single insecure person in the last year…and that is incredibly freeing. |
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