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Post by lovebunny on Oct 1, 2024 12:49:55 GMT
My aware-AP bf of 8 months & I are committed & monogamous. Desire was a slow burn, but now my body caught up with my mind, I’m happy with our sex life. It’s easy to be good to him because he’s thoughtful, sweet & nonjudgmental. Yet I’m struggling with fear & lack of trust. First, because it’s only been 8 months=honeymoon phase.
Also, BF suffered abuse as a kid; put-him-in-the-hospital abuse, the family scapegoat. His stories break my heart. I know that’s not his fault! But I know a person who was abused might subconsciously seek to recreate his childhood. He paints his ex-wife as emotionally abusive. I cyber-stalked his past, no arrests, nothing suspicious, his pets are happy, he doesn’t try to keep me from my friends or work or hobbies. I never felt “lovebombed,” he let me set the pace. He doesn’t push boundaries, no sign of him being physically abusive.
Yet I have this rattlesnake-rattle in my psyche & I can’t tell if I’m being hypervigilant or trying to find fault because of my own disorganized attachment. Anyone can give me a reality check?
Sometimes I worry he’s “mirroring.” I’m sure that could be completely unconscious on his part, it’s a valid survival tactic. Little things like using a phrase in the exact way I’d use it, or how he’s taken up my favorite pastimes with gusto, or an opinion shared a little too closely to my own.
Next, the very few fights we’ve had so far have been…. crazy-making. Like, for me when something happens, I confront it right away. He waits, then brings it up later out of context, or in a passive-aggressive way, often when he’s been stressed about work or overly tired. I’m blindsided because it’s always something that didn’t seem to bother him at the time. Or worse, I have no clue what he’s talking about, it was a nothingburger to me.
He admits his passive-aggressive communication style sucks & vows to work on it, especially after our last argument when he realized how differently things could have gone had he simply asked me a direct question instead of snarking backhandedly. The argument was so stupid, it felt as if he just wanted to fight. He says the problem is he has to “sit on it” a bit before he decides something is a problem, then has trouble expressing it openly or choosing the right time & way to bring it up.
There’s the fact that our memories of conversations differ wildly. I know this is common to an extent, but to the point where we each wonder if the other is gaslighting. Like one or both of us live in an alternate reality sometimes. I admit the problem could be me, I need to work on my “presence” especially during tense conversations. I know I’m often off chasing squirrels in my head & maybe not fully processing? I’ve read this can be handled by getting to the emotional truth of the conversation & not worrying/arguing about the details. I don’t know that it’s deliberate gaslighting, it certainly isn’t on my part if I’m not recalling things correctly.
But here’s the episode that really rattled me. After that last argument (which began over my occasional rejection of morning sex,) I had a vivid dream that he was throwing a cold drink on my face. It felt confusing, humiliating, shocking, a bigger version of how I felt after that last argument. I told him about the dream the following morning.
A week later, we were out to dinner, having a lovely evening. He took a sip of his drink, ice got in his windpipe, he choked & spit. It couldn’t have been much liquid, it was an expensive no-mixers drink. He took a sip, not a mouthful. I saw him struggle & lose control, trying to close his mouth which made it blow with some pressure when he spit it out. He’s over a foot taller than me, we were face-to-face at a small bistro table, the spit-drink landed mostly in my eyes. To me, it was my dream all over. Granted, I’d taken a low dose edible which intensified things, but it felt like a violent act & that the whole restaurant was watching.
Of course, he was mortified & apologetic. At first, I laughed. But after my surprise wore off, my nervous system went flight-or-fight. I looked him deep in the eyes and asked him, more than once, if he’d done that on purpose. I actually growled at him that if he was messing with my head, I’d take him to hell.
The night was ruined, I felt overwhelmed, humiliated, scared. To his credit, he stayed fairly calm, though he felt terrible & unjustly accused. After I’d calmed down, I admitted I’d felt reminded of how his father tried to convince him certain incidents of abuse were “accidents.” Bf replied, “I promise I’m not interested in recreating my childhood for myself or anyone else. I only want to lift you up.” And it’s true, he normally speaks to me so kindly. Then I felt awful, like I held his crappy childhood against him. But even now, I can’t help but worry I’m ignoring gut instinct a securely attached type would not question.
We’re talking about moving in together in a few months, after we will have been together a year. We already spend 5 nights a week together & we've happily spent a week straight together on vacation. Experience tells me if he’s wearing a mask, it’ll fall right off after I move in. It’s so easy to confuse a trauma response for an intention to create trauma & vice-versa. I want so badly to relax & be trusting, but I do NOT want to get burned again.
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Post by anne12 on Oct 2, 2024 5:35:45 GMT
“ Next, the very few fights we’ve had so far have been…. crazy-making. Like, for me when something happens, I confront it right away. He waits, then brings it up later out of context, or in a passive-aggressive way, often when he’s been stressed about work or overly tired” Some people needs longer time to process than others. What is his main go to anger pattern ? - passive aggressive anger pattern - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/24116/jebkinnisonforum.com/post/20293/What is yours ? - How to deal with your own anger pattern - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/39289/- How to deal with other peoples anger pattern - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/39290/- shame as an anger trigger - jebkinnisonforum.com/post/18822/jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1468/angerpattern-boundaries-shamebuttons-healthy-angerHaving a fight when we are stressed or overly tired ect. is not recommend . Stress puts us in survival mode. Men works differently than us women. They often haven’t got the same amount of words / vocabulary ect. as women Men can also get confused about this life transition phase women are going through from when they are 45-60 years old. Maybe you are also a little confused about yourself ? jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1468/angerpattern-boundaries-shamebuttons-healthy-anger ? How well regulated are you yourself before / when you are having a fight / an argument ? Taking a time out / a pause is often a good thing ”It may be another person, who turns on our anger, but the anger can be about something else.. - You give more, than you can give and more than you have the energy for. - You´ve gone too much on compromise with your values. - The things you do not take care of within yourself Or You are simply just: - stressed out - hangry (Hungry) - Tired - Too hot or Cold - Thirsty - Got PMS (pick a fight week) - going through menopause - www.drnorthrup.com/why-anger-is-common-during-menopause/- In perimenopause/ menopause women often experience a whole new level of anger - perhaps it is natural, as there has been an accumulated accumulation of repressed anger throughout their lives and also in this phase women often becomes more thin-skinned. (remember to repair)” Are you in therapy? |
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Post by anne12 on Oct 2, 2024 6:44:06 GMT
You write doubt / confusion: Doubt - you can be in doubt about almost everything in this life transition phase that you are in called “Midlife” Confusion is also very common in midlife ect. Just because you are in post meno pause and maybe are taking HRT does not mean that you have gone through midlife. Think of a butterfly. What happens before / in between it becomes a butterfly ? The transition from this 🐛 to this 🦋 ? It is recommended not to make impulsive decisions, even if you feel restless, bored, annoyed ect. in this phase of your life Are you able to allow ambivalence in yourself ? Often women who are around 60 years old and older have gone through midlife and the transition from 🐛 to 🦋 on a psychological level / mental level. jebkinnisonforum.com/post/54634/ |
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Post by lovebunny on Oct 2, 2024 12:09:36 GMT
Thank you so much anne12! I'll look this all over in more detail, but I already see his anger type is passive aggressive, and yes, he lacks some vocabulary for this stuff. I don't recognize myself in any of the unhealthy anger types, except maybe a very quick shame button...when I'm angry I just say I'm angry and can usually explain exactly why. So far, he's started the arguments, usually through passive-aggressive snide comments. I have started discussions that didn't become arguments (he has once or twice too.) But the menopausal rage thing is a THING! I have been seeing it in myself & my friends, we're not putting up with s**t anymore. Just last weekend, some random young guys were being obnoxious (hunting iguanas in a populated area with people around) while I was out on my paddleboard and I went off on them so ferociously they called me a "Karen!" I actually drove them out of the area. I never would have had the balls a few years ago. Which means when bf starts s**t, I'm more game than I used to be for a fight. If my confusion is just midlife stuff, that's great. I was worrying I was being primed for some kind of future emotional abuse & am too AP to spot it. But really, when I read about gaslighting, grooming, etc., I don't see it in him, he'd have to be a really good actor. I think I do have a challenge on my hands, given his history & mine. Speaking of caterpillars/butterflies: I worked at the local butterfly conservatory for a while. Did you know at one point in the cocoon the creature actually breaks down into pure liquid? So cool. |
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Post by anne12 on Oct 2, 2024 12:55:54 GMT
“Speaking of caterpillars/butterflies: I worked at the local butterfly conservatory for a while. Did you know at one point in the cocoon the creature actually breaks down into pure liquid?”
Yes I do 😀
I did not know how to explain it
I have been told (by a female shadow worker) it is more or less the same process a woman has to go through in midlife
How cool that you have worked at a butterfly conservatory ect.
Working with animals and in nature sounds like the perfect job for a hsp ❤️
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Post by cherrycola on Oct 2, 2024 16:32:25 GMT
I really liked the book "Living with the passive aggressive man" - Scott Wetzler because to me this can turn into a dealbreaker. It's all about how you two navigate thru it and if he is willing to make adjustments to his relating.
What if you two tried a trial period of him just telling you things in the moment. Really most of them are probably no big deal and your neutral reaction may go a long way to helping him understand he doesn't need to decide what is or is not important. He can just tell you and chat it out.
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Post by lovebunny on Oct 2, 2024 20:08:08 GMT
I will check out that book for sure, thank you! His passive-aggressive approach truly throws off my equilibrium. Maybe now that I understand what's happening I can be less reactive.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 2, 2024 20:44:08 GMT
If he's really working on his side, then it may help him to understand he's passive aggressive because he couldn't communicate directly or honestly in an abusive childhood environment, so he learned to communicate in a manner that maybe still didn't work but worked better or helped avoid more punishment at the time. Assuming he's in therapy, one thing he probably needs to work on is reconnecting with himself and getting comfortable practicing direct communication when he's in an emotionally safe environment.
You don't need to enable him when he's expressing himself in a dysfunctional way and you don't need to mind read his wants and needs, but you can be compassionate knowing the reason his communication sucks and not go into each confrontation assuming the worst about him and his intentions. Again, as long as he IS actively working on it and putting in effort since he's recognized he's got this issue, that's good. But it's also going to go at his own speed, and you'll have to see if any growth in this area for him is happening at a speed that also works for you overall in the relationship.
It sounds like your side of this to work through is bringing in your distrust before he even does anything, which is something you should work on if he hasn't done anything to gain this distrust. There's a difference between your gut telling you someone is unsafe, which you should listen to and trust yourself on, and preemptively dlistrusting someone who hasn't given you a reason to not be trusted. The latter is attachment issues.
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Post by anne12 on Oct 3, 2024 7:36:21 GMT
Have you worked with a somatic experiencing attatchmentstyle trauma therapist, now that you know, you have got some disorganized attatchmentstyle ? It is SO important for people with some fa / trauma in their makeup. “The best thing you can do is to go to therapy with a (SE= somatic experience) attachment trauma therapist regularly until you have mastered the traumatic experiences of the past. Perhaps you can not even remember the initial events, or you may not remember them as trauma, because you may well have closed off to feel them. As a defense against being overwhelmed by them and "The insane that happened" and instead, you may have been the "strong" one who felt no emotions - It is also important in the therapy to separate the two vital needs: The need for attachment and the need for security/safety when you were a child, so that the two needs can now be experienced from the same person. Namely from your partner - In addition, it's important that you land your state of "alarm", which you may not even notice, you are in because you have closed of and dissociated and have gone into freeze or functionel freeze. This includes, inter alia, getting your instinctive part of the brain (reptile brain) to understand that your life right here is now safe.” Some Boundary exercises: jebkinnisonforum.com/post/40067/Use Chris Griscom color/breathing meditation, if you are angry with or afraid of another person: jebkinnisonforum.com/post/46682/jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/3408/tips-fa-desorganized-incl-tools |
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Post by anne12 on Oct 3, 2024 8:31:13 GMT
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Post by anne12 on Oct 3, 2024 9:06:14 GMT
Does your boyfriend know that you are hsp ? Highly sensitive people tends to get easier overwhelmed. Hsp and couples relationships: jebkinnisonforum.com/post/39773/“As a highly sensitive person, you react more strongly when your partner is in a bad mood: Several studies show that certain gene markers are associated with greater social sensitivity. Eg. For example, researchers in Switzerland have found that when you wear a particular gene marker for social sensitivity, after an hour of being with your partner, you will be more affected by your partner's mood - whether it's good or bad.….” |
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Post by lovebunny on Oct 3, 2024 13:55:32 GMT
Aware-AP is the label he gave himself. But I read largely as AP too, only recently started to think I'm more disorganized. He's aware that I'm HSP/ADHD. We are also both high empathy.
He's done enough internal reparenting that he can (usually) separate his safe, adult self from the child whose parents might've killed him. But I'm sure sometimes his trauma is going to show up (as will mine.) I suppose now as we move out of honeymoon phase & into a deeper relationship, I can expect to bump up against more of both our issues.
We both completely understand WHY his childhood made him passive aggressive. I think it just took me a few arguments to understand that's what was happening; I jumped to gaslighting or intentional crazy-making. That spit drink in my face so soon after my vivid dream really spooked me, but maybe if I wasn't already rattled by the passive-aggressive arguments beforehand, I could have cast that as a coincidence & not have piled it all into a "omg he's messing with me" ball. Thank you all for helping me sort that out.
No one is in regular therapy (we've both been at points.) No attachment or somatic therapists in the islands, we'd need online ones that take insurance. We have substance abuse counselors, family therapists. Reiki & acupuncturists in the spa/resorts if we wanted to spend $$.
I prefer to read books therapists write (I retain more of what I read than what I hear anyway) & spend a lot of time working my body out in mother nature. I take some low dose anti-depressant & anti-anxiety meds plus HRT. He sometimes does ketamine therapy with a guide & speaks highly of it. We both read avidly,journal almost daily & participate in forums. He studies buddhism & enjoys guided meditations. I'm a terrible meditator, but great at visualization/imagination exercises. We both read, read, read, so Anne's links to reading materials & visualization exercises are super helpful.
I think we'll both be better equipped next time something like this pops up. On my end, I can try to stay calm & not engage in nonsensical arguments & try to cultivate a safe space so he can tell me what is actually bothering him. Now that I understand he isn't purposefully trying to manipulate me into crazy arguments. Thank you all SO MUCH.
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Post by lovebunny on Oct 3, 2024 15:38:48 GMT
I should probably sort out my reasons for assuming the worst.
I've had FA partners who destabilized things whenever I got too comfy or we reached a milestone. My last bf seemed to fall right out of love with me once I moved in with him. The partner before him dumped me for another woman right before our first vacation together.
I've also dated someone borderline who self-sabotaged & "tested" me. For example, she put her birth certificate in my recycle pile. Then went off on me for throwing away her birth certificate. I've dated a narcissist or two who pulled bait-n-switches. You know how at some point, like several months into the r'ship, their mask just falls off? I have some fear of that still.
It occurs to me that I may also have internalized some of his stories from his childhood, how his grandfather father & mother were all sadistic to varying degrees in their interactions with him. I try not to feel what he must have felt, but it's hard not to go there.
I really do think I've chosen better this time, but I had a wobble in my trust in myself (& him.) Thanks again!
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Post by cherrycola on Oct 3, 2024 16:30:44 GMT
Having been a Passive aggressive communicator at one time, it's definitely a hard pattern to stop.
My ex husband and I used to be very passive aggressive to each other and what worked was actively rephrasing. So if one of us said something passive aggressive the other would say "you are being passive aggressive". And then we would rephrase it to be assertive.
I think you have to have a lot of trust and understanding with each other to take the very direct approach but it worked wonders. Even now, sometimes I'll catch myself saying something passively and then I will rephrase it. People have questioned me why and my reasoning is if I practice it when I'm calm it's less likely to happen when I'm mad.
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Post by tnr9 on Oct 6, 2024 12:55:03 GMT
Aware-AP is the label he gave himself. But I read largely as AP too, only recently started to think I'm more disorganized. He's aware that I'm HSP/ADHD. We are also both high empathy. He's done enough internal reparenting that he can (usually) separate his safe, adult self from the child whose parents might've killed him. But I'm sure sometimes his trauma is going to show up (as will mine.) I suppose now as we move out of honeymoon phase & into a deeper relationship, I can expect to bump up against more of both our issues. We both completely understand WHY his childhood made him passive aggressive. I think it just took me a few arguments to understand that's what was happening; I jumped to gaslighting or intentional crazy-making. That spit drink in my face so soon after my vivid dream really spooked me, but maybe if I wasn't already rattled by the passive-aggressive arguments beforehand, I could have cast that as a coincidence & not have piled it all into a "omg he's messing with me" ball. Thank you all for helping me sort that out. No one is in regular therapy (we've both been at points.) No attachment or somatic therapists in the islands, we'd need online ones that take insurance. We have substance abuse counselors, family therapists. Reiki & acupuncturists in the spa/resorts if we wanted to spend $$. I prefer to read books therapists write (I retain more of what I read than what I hear anyway) & spend a lot of time working my body out in mother nature. I take some low dose anti-depressant & anti-anxiety meds plus HRT. He sometimes does ketamine therapy with a guide & speaks highly of it. We both read avidly,journal almost daily & participate in forums. He studies buddhism & enjoys guided meditations. I'm a terrible meditator, but great at visualization/imagination exercises. We both read, read, read, so Anne's links to reading materials & visualization exercises are super helpful. I think we'll both be better equipped next time something like this pops up. On my end, I can try to stay calm & not engage in nonsensical arguments & try to cultivate a safe space so he can tell me what is actually bothering him. Now that I understand he isn't purposefully trying to manipulate me into crazy arguments. Thank you all SO MUCH. The body keeps score is based on the SE model. If he suffered abuse…then he likely is FA but tends to associate with AP behaviors. Honestly I thought I was AP for decades and only in the last few years (thanks to this group) realized I am FA. I also have struggled with passive aggressive behavior…..I call them ripples because the event that would set them up happened previously in a space that I felt I could not express my anger….a lot of times it was a result of interactions with my mom that would then lead to “acting out” on the drive home. He is going to have two lanes of work ahead of him….1. Is working on his nervous system….he will have such a trigger sensitive nervous system by now as I did….probably a heck of a lot worse because mine was emotional and not physical. 2. He will have to identify the “triggers” before he reacts to them. This takes getting in touch with some really painful stuff and being able to make “choices” on how to react versus just reacting. There is no quick fix….he has been working with a limited set of tools for decades that helped him survive his traumatic childhood. This is going to take a lot of patience and understanding because he will take a step forward and then something happens and he will take three steps back. A therapist…even one he can do virtual sessions with, can really help. Books are great, but do not allow for follow up conversations and alternate suggestions. Plus, this is truly more than you should be managing just the 2 of you…especially if you still have your own stuff to work through. |
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