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Post by yasmin on Jan 5, 2018 1:20:02 GMT
I came to this site because I was dating someone who's fearful avoidant (I am still kind of dating him now). In his case it's pretty pronounced and fairly classic, he ticks all the boxes and shows all the behaviours and his actions were so extreme and confusing that it led me to Google and I discovered attachment theory. Inadvertently along the journey of reading the book, reading the threads on here and really looking at myself I have now come to the pretty shocking discovery that I have some significant FA tendencies myself when I had thought I was secure and a very chilled out person with relationships. I think maybe what I am is actually just very good at creating that impression.
I don't exhibit ALL the behaviors and feelings associated with this attachment style - I think I generally have pretty good self esteem, pretty good trust in others, pretty low anxiety with intimacy and no problems with intensity BUT I have had to question why I have been attracted to someone who's clearly avoidant for the past year and have come to realise that some of those avoidant behaviors are actually appealing to me on some level because it enables me to enjoy only a partial relationship.
Looking back at all my past relationships, I think they have largely been with either secure partners OR partners with anxious tendencies but the common denominator has always been that the partner has always chased me, quite often expressed fear that I would leave them and generally seemed to worship me or become quite obsessed with me. I saw these relationships as particularly loving but am now wondering if maybe they weren't also a touch dysfunctional!!! I have never experienced anxiety in those relationships, although I do with my FA, but I did at times experience a sense of smothering or feeling turned off by someone who liked me a lot in the past.
Not always, sometimes I am great at closeness, but there is definitely a part of me that is repulsed in some way by certain things that should not be repulsive. I am known by my friends as being "hard to get", "independent" and "choosy" and I tend to dismiss almost everyone who asks me out. If you went on my Facebook there's always comments like this about how it's a running joke that I say "no" to every guy and for whatever reason I hide behind this perhaps as an excuse not to take risks. People are always saying "how are you still single?" but the truth is I rarely take the risk. I am very hard to get close to, very slow to truly open up, very paranoid initially of new people. While I've always found this funny in a way (I remember exes calling me Katy Perry because I was hot and cold) it is obviously also an opportunity here for me to resolve whatever this is with me.
The FA I have been dating is someone I have genuinely come to care about and probably even love, and actually I think he feels the same. But obviously we both have these issues that come out in different ways and with us both having FA behaviors it is going to be very tricky. I find that one minute I feel like I love him and want to try and the next minute I am coming up with every excuse in my head to run away and avoid it.
He has made a some big steps in the last few weeks towards me and he wants to make things work and after a year of wanting to hear this it made me feel suffocated and like someone was choking me around the neck and this is probably the moment the lightbulb went off in my head and made me realise maybe that wasn't a healthy reaction.
I hope I can talk to some other FAs about this. I really want a relationship, particularly with this man, but also in general so I have to find some way of allowing myself to feel positive feelings about people instead of always being turned off. Specifically, I think what I do is...
1. Say no to practically everyone who asks me out / make them ask me out for a year or something before I say "yes".
2. Instantly create reasons in my head why I don't like them, why they would hurt me, why they would be wrong for me
3. Test all new relationships with pushing / testing behaviors to try and ruin things before they get going
4. Get very, very turned off by any demands on me for more attention
5. Feel almost always like the other person loves me more (some kind of safe feeling in this).
Can anyone else relate to this? I am actually doing pretty well on the intimacy with my FA, but then he always keeps me in the challenge / chase phase because he's as freaked out (or more) than I am but it's honestly been a long time since I really cared about a guy
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 4:44:15 GMT
As an avoidant that has FA and DA tendencies both, maybe because of a kind of unique long term trauma and PTSD? I can really relate to a lot you posted here. I have to go to bed but will give a thoughtful response when I can.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 7:10:59 GMT
Yes - I can relate. I very rarely go after relationships and if anyone shows a great deal of interest in me, it is a massive turn off.
My list includes:
Choosing unavailable partners
Choosing partners who are way below me in terms of intellect, looks, socially or whatever - this keeps me feeling secure in the relationship and never having to really bond although this is something that has improved vastly over the last few years.
Being in relationships with men who idolise me feels comfortable - again I never really need to get too close and never have to be real and vulnerable.
So much of this seems to be maintaining a protective outer shell - so that nobody sees what is real and if i don't care, I can't be hurt.
I also lose interest in long term relationships when things start to get real, i stumble and have as a result hurt some of my long term partners - it's not that I cannot love or care, it is more a fear of being exposed.
I am working on this by becoming comfortable with myself and my own feelings - even when they are not comfortable ones ie not checking out on myself. It have been a really interesting journey. Thanks for posting this Yasmin.
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Post by yasmin on Jan 5, 2018 11:17:10 GMT
Thanks Lupetto! that is so interesting to read because I also do most of those things! I read your post three times and realised... CHOOSING UNAVAILABLE PARTNERS At least half my partners have been (at least initially) long distance based! CHOOSING PARTNERS I FEEL ARE BENEATH ME Yes!!! Not in a horrible way, but most of my partners (with the exception of the very first one when I was 16 and the current one) have felt intellectually inferior to me and there's often been a case of friends not realising why I chose them. Like, "why is she with him?  ". PARTNERS WHO IDOLISE ME Yes, true of every single relationship I have ever had. No exceptions. I don't lose interest in long term relationships, actually once in them I attach very strongly but those things are definitely all true about me so getting to attachment is very difficult. I always have hidden behind excuses for this, for example as I said being "choosy" or things like, "I am attracted to nerds" but the honest truth is that I think if someone feels like my equal this is very threatening for me and I don't really understand / believe that someone like that would like me. The FA I am currently dating is an exception. Both of us feel the other one is out of their league. In reality we are probably an equal match and very well suited to each other but both of us are in our own ways always sabotaging. He's hyper intelligent, gorgeous and matched to me and it scares the bejeesus out of me. Since day 1 I have been looking for reasons why it won't work. His avoidance is what allowed me to attach to him because I honestly felt that my feelings would never be returned. His tendencies are towards needing space, push and pull, unable to tolerate too much intimacy, unable to tolerate too much emotion, conflict avoidance etc. so it always FEELS like he is the "avoidant" and I am comforting him, but if you look much closer it's clear to observe that I have the same fears and attachment style as he does and in my case it is just much more buried and hidden. I come across as very confident, very happy to be intimate and very good at closeness but then in truth it's always on my terms with me feeling in control and rarely vulnerable. Maybe he feels EMOTIONALLY inferior to me?! I don't "check out", but what I do is to behave in ways to get out of it in the first place. Maybe by setting impossible standards or expectations (I knew he was "commitment phobic and demanded exclusivity from date 1) or simply talking myself out of it. Right now, I keep telling myself he is avoidant and will make a poor partner, or that he is a womaniser and I am not that important to him and he will drop me when someone better comes along. It's negative self talk instead of seeing this relationship as the positive thing it is. I've crossed a threshold now with my FA where his avoidance has calmed down in relation to me - his walls are down, he is happy to be vulnerably, he feels safe, he wants to come closer, he has admitted he has feelings and an attachment to me and this is a first for him in his life so he's nervously navigating his feelings for me. This has made me feel quite uncomfortable because I know I am now going to have to step up and actually try and be in this relationship with this person who terrifies me. What if he gets closer and realises I am not as great as he thinks? What if I love him and allow myself to be vulnerable and something happens and he disappears or betrays me? What if he realises someone else is better? I feel like the threat of my independence being lost of being engulfed is what scares me, but when I look closer I think what I am ultimately scared of it being rejected and abandoned by someone who I really love. I find I am vascillating between fantasising about us being married and this making me feel warm and wonderful and feeling like I can't breathe and I have started to have negative and critical thoughts about him. We've just decided to "date" as friends where basically we go out on dates and act like a couple but there's no pressure on us. He's doing everything right, and here I am second guessing everything and trying to look for confirmations he is just toying with me. I have also started chatting to other people on a dating site  I really want to get a grip on this because I think I sabotage myself. |
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Post by 1wthlyf on Jan 5, 2018 14:24:56 GMT
yasmin, I've really enjoyed reading your sharing here. You have touched on a key topic that I'm sure many of us can relate to. I know that I relate. I find it interesting the subtleties of the attachment trauma response and how it manifests in life relationships. The relationships vary but the response and our behaviors vary as well. What struck me most after reading your posts above is that it seems that knowing whether one is FA or DA, or even AP, is irrelevant in the scheme of things. We're either secure or insecure. The behaviors that you describe and that I can most certainly relate to cause a lot of red herring type of focus on them, instead of the fact that we are insecure by nature (due to our childhoods). I'm in the same exact situation as you. The five-year FA ex contacted me a month ago after almost a year of absolute no contact and now we're 'dating'. She has done introspection and took responsibility for many things. She's shared things that I didn't know she would ever delve into. However, she is still FA, and I'm still insecure (used to be AP all the time - 30 years of therapy has calmed virtually all of it). Or should I say, she's still insecure and I'm still insecure. I'm realizing that the labels don't matter in the long run, as it's the insecurity that is driving the show for all of us who are insecure. It can be parsed out into all these Attachment/Myers-Briggs/(fill in the blank) labels, but in the end we're all insecure and trying to have a secure relationship, or at least come close to that. Honestly, thank you for helping me see this through your words. I wrote this more for me than for you. |
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Post by yasmin on Jan 5, 2018 17:56:29 GMT
Thanks 1wthlyf, that is such a good point. I suppose behavior only matters in so far as whether or not it has a positive or negative effect on your life.
In my work life for example I've always been an adventurer; not afraid of anything, always full of confidence and as a result I own my own company doing my dream job and have travelled all over the world. That part of my life I have a real handle on and have never been held back by insecurity, I always just went for it and let the chips fall wherever. In my love life...hmmm...I am not sure my behavior is actually fully conducive to all life has to offer so for that reason I want to focus on examining and changing it and feeling that "to heck with it" kind of confidence I have at work. I think that would be a beautiful way to live.
I don't think I have as much of an attachment disorder as some of the people here have described; which sounds consuming and really painful and I won't pretend that it's all that bad because I mostly don;t notice it, but generally speaking...hmm...yeah...I do need a lot of space and solitude, I put up walls, I like unavailable partners on some level, I tend to get into serious relationships with people who feel safe / comforting and not challenging. I don't think any of those things are dreadful but they're not me living to the best of my ability. Someone posted on here about their ideal relationship being with someone who lived next door but not in the same house and honestly, I have been feeling that way for 25 years!
I am going to start trying to really focus in on my thoughts and feelings and look at how my brain works when people are trying to get close to me or date me. It'll be an interesting journey but I'd like to feel what it'd be like to live / love in a fearless way.
Thank you!
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Post by yasmin on Jan 5, 2018 17:59:26 GMT
It also occurred to me that I have always been a super workaholic. Really badly so, so if someone is dating me it is quite hard to actually SEE me  It's so strange that I am finally seeing all this in myself! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 5:51:57 GMT
I commend you in taking the time to put such effort in expounding on your own FA tendencies. Much appreciated. That said, the realization - when it comes - as to why the rest of this "support for FA" forum is completely barren is a profound one.
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Post by Guest123 on Feb 1, 2018 15:14:01 GMT
That said, the realization - when it comes - as to why the rest of this "support for FA" forum is completely barren is a profound one. Many of the self-proclaimed DAs in this forum are actually FAs. Just by looking at the frequency and content of their posts, they show anxious and fearful tendencies. You can clearly see manipulative tendencies when controlling who posts where and what... how people are supposed to address them and other sort of controlling behavior. This is perhaps the reason for the few posts here. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 17:30:58 GMT
I commend you in taking the time to put such effort in expounding on your own FA tendencies. Much appreciated. That said, the realization - when it comes - as to why the rest of this "support for FA" forum is completely barren is a profound one. XOff , the avoidant support forums were sectioned off when created by Jeb recently , but avoidant is avoidant in terms of the avoidant makeup and i think all avoidantssgould feel welcome to share in the DA support forum to give and receive support for issues related to the avoidant attachment style. That’s just my take on that, welcome to the boards, tho! Yasmin participated over there from the beginning and it’s been great to have as many avoidants as possible participate! |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 2, 2018 8:47:24 GMT
The worst thing for a FA is if things are not clear. You can help them calm down by telling them: I will protect you and you can count on me Let's get things clear I'm sorry that I scared you I see you and I notice what you need Absolutely. The worst thing is if things are not clear. I'm fine with relationships being over or rejection or even cruelty but being unsure what's happening triggers me like crazy. |
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Post by mrob on Feb 6, 2018 16:35:29 GMT
I have real trouble believing those things if I am told them. It's like the conspiracy theory machine inside me goes mad. They couldn't possibly....
My biggest thing is that people are out for their own ends, regardless of the good things they do. It's really a shield to deflect attention from what they're really doing, which is to have their own way with me as one cog in whatever wheel they have going.
I intellectually know that's wrong, and I try to suppress it, but that's what's going on in my head.
It's an impossible position.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 17:13:00 GMT
I have real trouble believing those things if I am told them. It's like the conspiracy theory machine inside me goes mad. They couldn't possibly.... My biggest thing is that people are out for their own ends, regardless of the good things they do. It's really a shield to deflect attention from what they're really doing, which is to have their own way with me as one cog in whatever wheel they have going. I intellectually know that's wrong, and I try to suppress it, but that's what's going on in my head. It's an impossible position. Oh I have this too a lot of times. I'm thinking in my head "what do they really want?" The problem is deciphering when it's actually true and when it's just our own alarm system. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 11:19:47 GMT
I have real trouble believing those things if I am told them. It's like the conspiracy theory machine inside me goes mad. They couldn't possibly.... My biggest thing is that people are out for their own ends, regardless of the good things they do. It's really a shield to deflect attention from what they're really doing, which is to have their own way with me as one cog in whatever wheel they have going. I intellectually know that's wrong, and I try to suppress it, but that's what's going on in my head. It's an impossible position. Oh I have this too a lot of times. I'm thinking in my head "what do they really want?" The problem is deciphering when it's actually true and when it's just our own alarm system. Uh, I feel the same. When my DA does something nice for me, I wonder why, and i take it as he was feeling guilty about him ‘disappearing’ previously, or trying to reach out to me because I was withdrawing, or something other than he was trying to be nice. When he doesn’t do something (like he said he would, for example), I’ll see it as “see, just full of unfulfilled promises. Shows that all the “good” things he’s done is really just a trick to get what he needs, not really out of love.” Geez, am I a FA instead!?! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 16:03:34 GMT
Oh I have this too a lot of times. I'm thinking in my head "what do they really want?" The problem is deciphering when it's actually true and when it's just our own alarm system. Uh, I feel the same. When my DA does something nice for me, I wonder why, and i take it as he was feeling guilty about him ‘disappearing’ previously, or trying to reach out to me because I was withdrawing, or something other than he was trying to be nice. When he doesn’t do something (like he said he would, for example), I’ll see it as “see, just full of unfulfilled promises. Shows that all the “good” things he’s done is really just a trick to get what he needs, not really out of love.” Geez, am I a FA instead!?! I don't know if this is an anxious or avoidant thing? I think there are some thought processes that are just insecure in general. We became insecure in part due to caregivers not being reliable or attending to our needs. I think it's natural that we have become suspicious of people's motivations. It's difficult to trust when we have been betrayed by the people that should have cared the most. |
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I really want to get a grip on this because I think I sabotage myself.
It's so strange that I am finally seeing all this in myself!