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Post by Jaeger on Jan 19, 2018 9:00:22 GMT
Where, for a long time, there was a need to refer to outside sources, the communication patterns between these two styles have recently shown up quite classically even on these boards. These are, ofcourse, not romantic relationships (where these patterns tend to be a lot stronger and discernable), but it's plenty to see and analyze what happens in this dynamic.
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Post by ocarina on Jan 19, 2018 12:16:06 GMT
Absolutely - interesting! What the APs see as being caring and intersted the Avoidants tend to see as intrusive and critical - here of course lies the crux of the matter.
This communication stuff is so tricky. Wouldn't the world be a great place if we could stop seeing the other side as the "baddies"....
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Post by yasmin on Jan 19, 2018 12:40:26 GMT
Yes. Absolutely.
APs asking for reassurance and trying their hardest to communicate however the DA wants but being unable to give space even when directly requested and not being able to see they're being smothering, needy and demanding.
DAs comimg to a public forum and insisting on enforcing rules on how to be communicated with and disappearing / cutting contact with the group unless things are on their prescribed terms, thus depriving themselves of the community they came to seek.
Many threads lately have been like a metaphor for attachment style.
No judgement on either side but it's interesting that the need of both types translate to interactions with strangers on the internet. Both triggering each other!
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 19, 2018 13:38:16 GMT
I also think it is a matter of degree....what I have experienced "here" on these forums as DA behavior is very much my mom...but very unlike my ex. In part, it is incredibly triggering to have a boundary expressed so passionately but without consideration for the person who kept tripping over it as an child. I had to become numb even to my own boundaries because I could not determine where the line actually was. I am sad to see the DAs go....I was surprised that that forum in particuliar became a micro version of what is experienced in the world...but boy am I grateful for the opportunity to sit in and with it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 14:16:16 GMT
I'm missing something here because I'm new to the board. Can anyone explain what has happened?
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Post by yasmin on Jan 19, 2018 15:15:40 GMT
Basically some APS have been derailing threads to ask DAS questions like lab rats or saying unpleasant things about DAS. Basically hijacking threads and trying to make them about their own relationships instead of giving the DA a safe space.
DAs didn't like it and left the forum.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 15:55:57 GMT
Basically some APS have been derailing threads to ask DAS questions like lab rats or saying unpleasant things about DAS. Basically hijacking threads and trying to make them about their own relationships instead of giving the DA a safe space. DAs didn't like it and left the forum. Oh god, that makes me paranoid about how I use this forum in case I unknowingly do that! That's such a shame that this happened ... Were the DAs able to explain this to the APs? |
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Post by yasmin on Jan 19, 2018 16:18:41 GMT
There's no need to be paranoid. People just need to follow basic manners.
Don't hijack threads into something completely different.
Don't use the support sections for DA to get support for yourself
Don't insult others
That's all it really is. Most avoidants on here are totally happy to join convos and offer their perspective but ok think it's when basic forum etiquette is ignored then people feel like it turns into a one sided convo
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 19, 2018 17:21:53 GMT
Peace and love to you tgat on your healing journey. Messaging you for relationship advice is intrusive. I've had a few myself. I think it's indicative of the desperation felt by some. Borders on obsession. I hope you've found some connections to keep with you. You reached out for help and understanding and I'm sorry thst wasn't easily provided. So....I took this from the DA support forum and pasted it here because I did not want "my stuff" to overwrite that thread..... When I first read this....I recognized myself in it...am I "obsessed" with understanding my ex? ....yes...you have caught me there.....have I reached out to individuals through Messanger to try to understand him...yep...guilty as charged. And initially I cried...I have to own that also...because it felt so personal....."I messed up again" "no wonder he broke up with me" type stuff...but then...something really amazing happened.....I could acknowledge and see this behavior in myself...but the personalization of it went away and I was left with acceptance. Acceptance that I am not perfect...acceptance that, as I try to navigate this new norm of not being in the relationship, I will make mistakes....cross boundaries, disregard protocol, come across as disrespectful because at times it truly is "all about me"... but this isn't a character flaw. I am not a "bad, unlovable person" because of it. And that realization is so freeing!! I have been trapped for far too long in a cage of expecting perfection from myself because my mom was unable to meet the child in me with compassion and understanding. I don't have to continue that to myself.  . So...thank you Yasmin!!! |
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Post by Jaeger on Jan 19, 2018 17:55:58 GMT
Peace and love to you tgat on your healing journey. Messaging you for relationship advice is intrusive. I've had a few myself. I think it's indicative of the desperation felt by some. Borders on obsession. I hope you've found some connections to keep with you. You reached out for help and understanding and I'm sorry thst wasn't easily provided. So....I took this from the DA support forum and pasted it here because I did not want "my stuff" to overwrite that thread..... When I first read this....I recognized myself in it...am I "obsessed" with understanding my ex? ....yes...you have caught me there.....have I reached out to individuals through Messanger to try to understand him...yep...guilty as charged. And initially I cried...I have to own that also...because it felt so personal....."I messed up again" "no wonder he broke up with me" type stuff...but then...something really amazing happened.....I could acknowledge and see this behavior in myself...but the personalization of it went away and I was left with acceptance. Acceptance that I am not perfect...acceptance that, as I try to navigate this new norm of not being in the relationship, I will make mistakes....cross boundaries, disregard protocol, come across as disrespectful because at times it truly is "all about me"... but this isn't a character flaw. I am not a "bad, unlovable person" because of it. And that realization is so freeing!! I have been trapped for far too long in a cage of expecting perfection from myself because my mom was unable to meet the child in me with compassion and understanding. I don't have to continue that to myself. . So...thank you Yasmin!!! Focus on others needs (exes, their reasoning, their 'relationship manual', things you could have done to possibly change how THEY reacted), all of these are a normal part of moving on from a failed relationship. In my view, where an AP style holds you back from moving on is that it tends to focus on only that. Is it an obsession? It certainly looks like it from the sidelines. Reading entire libraries on attachment theory, post counts on related sites that even veterans of a few years haven't managed to rack up over all that time, one question being answered and 3 new ones popping up, etc. Thing is, both the anxious and avoidant styles seem to revolve around control and personal need, to me. One employing tactics to make sure the other doesn't move too far away, the other to make sure they don't get too close. Magnetism at its finest, but both acting out of their own interests. Both aimed at finding safety and security and usually, neither finding it at the end. Relational security to me is achieved by being willing and able to look at and act on the needs of both partners. That just isn't possible if personal needs (wether for closeness or distance) consistently eclipse those of a partner. I realize that this post generalizes on quite a few points and that there are exceptions on all sides, but I believe this is at the core of a lot of the issues we see. |
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Post by yasmin on Jan 19, 2018 18:36:15 GMT
Peace and love to you tgat on your healing journey. Messaging you for relationship advice is intrusive. I've had a few myself. I think it's indicative of the desperation felt by some. Borders on obsession. I hope you've found some connections to keep with you. You reached out for help and understanding and I'm sorry thst wasn't easily provided. So....I took this from the DA support forum and pasted it here because I did not want "my stuff" to overwrite that thread..... When I first read this....I recognized myself in it...am I "obsessed" with understanding my ex? ....yes...you have caught me there.....have I reached out to individuals through Messanger to try to understand him...yep...guilty as charged. And initially I cried...I have to own that also...because it felt so personal....."I messed up again" "no wonder he broke up with me" type stuff...but then...something really amazing happened.....I could acknowledge and see this behavior in myself...but the personalization of it went away and I was left with acceptance. Acceptance that I am not perfect...acceptance that, as I try to navigate this new norm of not being in the relationship, I will make mistakes....cross boundaries, disregard protocol, come across as disrespectful because at times it truly is "all about me"... but this isn't a character flaw. I am not a "bad, unlovable person" because of it. And that realization is so freeing!! I have been trapped for far too long in a cage of expecting perfection from myself because my mom was unable to meet the child in me with compassion and understanding. I don't have to continue that to myself. . So...thank you Yasmin!!! I don't think it's "obsession" with understanding your ex (because you probably ALREADY understand) but it's more (with APs) a desperate need for their DA not to reject them; regardless of how bad the relationship is for them or whether it makes them happy or sad. So it's like of like a feeling that if only they would do / be / say / give what you want then everything is okay and *you* therefore are okay. I think you're wanting something to make you feel okay and the DA won't give it so you're seeking elsewhere. It's natural and part of your attachment style but it's really not something anyone else can fix for you. Anxiety is anxiety so reasoning won't fix it. Actually anxiety by nature doesn't respond to logic or reason. Logic and reason is: my ex dumped me therefore he didn't want to be with me (reason why isn't that relevant after all) Logic and reason is: my ex was never that great for me, I felt rejected often and my needs weren't met (therefore someone else is a better fit) My son has anxiety in OCD form, and he needs reassurance from me (Mom, my stomach hurts, do you think it's something serious?), but as soon as I give it he needs more. So the "cure" isn't getting reassurance because it's never enough. Your need for reassurance will, be never ending. Until you can reassure YOURSELF. Find out that everyone is lovable. Everyone has someone suited to them who'll provide for their needs. You are perfect just as you are. Your DA's choices have nothing to do with you. Etc. Everyone feels like that (confused, wanting answers) after a breakup but I think more secure people come to a point where they cry and obsess for a while and then get kind of bored of it, find closure and realise the relationship wasn't that great, so it's more insecurity than obsession driving it I guess. |
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Post by yasmin on Jan 19, 2018 18:37:14 GMT
I just saw Jaegers post (I started mine earlier but he phone rang) and can see we said a lot of the same stuff!
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Post by yasmin on Jan 19, 2018 18:45:36 GMT
One thing tnr8 that I guarantee you - the heart that is made to love you is NOT going to be rejecting you over and over. Maybe that mantra alone can help with the rejection. The heart that is meant to love you is going to be the least likely to reject you in the entire world. They will be the ONE person who never, ever, ever does that - so maybe switch it all up in your head and it'll help you to stop feeling like this person is the one and only. They are probably not.
They could be if they weren't DA and they gave the relationship a real chance and a positive outlook - but then I could be a model if I weighed 110lbs so "if" is kind of useless in life.
I had seriously strong feelings for my FA, I really did, and he is still chasing after me; but no matter how much I like him I actually don't enjoy being rejected or being told I am "just a friend" which insults my intelligence and devalues my worth. Stand up for yourself! Go Beyonce on his ass. The answers to your feelings don't lie in understanding his, they lie in realising no matter WHAT his feelings are that you (and literally everyone else) has the capability of finding a mutual relaitonship that makes you feel better every single day.
When you start truly fighting for that (fake it if required) then people leanr how to treat you and they see your worth because you see it yourself.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 19, 2018 20:03:41 GMT
Thank you Jaeger and Yasmin for your replies...I held off on my response until I could fully let all of it soak in. I think you are both right in that "anxiety and fear" tend to be at the center of both AP and DA behaviors...don't leave me and don't come too close are just the opposite side of the same coin. And trying to glen information in order to control a person or situation or outcome doesn't work..After 9 months...and a heck load of posts (who knew there was a senior member option) I am finally coming into my own....at a snail's crawl pace...but I will take it. In the end...I don't know what my ex is....but it really doesn't matter does it. The fact is, for whatever reason, he decided to end things and I cannot change, fix or undo it by reading up on attachment theory. I can only move forward to the best of my ability and continue to embrace all of who I am. I do appreciate both of you and the others on this site who have welcomed me without judgement. That has helped. |
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Post by Jaeger on Jan 19, 2018 20:44:35 GMT
Thank you Jaeger and Yasmin for your replies...I held off on my response until I could fully let all of it soak in. I think you are both right in that "anxiety and fear" tend to be at the center of both AP and DA behaviors...don't leave me and don't come too close are just the opposite side of the same coin. And trying to glen information in order to control a person or situation or outcome doesn't work..After 9 months...and a heck load of posts (who knew there was a senior member option) I am finally coming into my own....at a snail's crawl pace...but I will take it. In the end...I don't know what my ex is....but it really doesn't matter does it. The fact is, for whatever reason, he decided to end things and I cannot change, fix or undo it by reading up on attachment theory. I can only move forward to the best of my ability and continue to embrace all of who I am. I do appreciate both of you and the others on this site who have welcomed me without judgement. That has helped. Very well said, and for what it's worth, I think valuing a relationship and a partner as much as you do and being able to hone in on their needs is a great quality. If you can avoid losing yourself in the process, there is no doubt in my mind that you will make someone amazingly happy to be with you. Just make sure you're both sharing the happiness instead of focusing solely on his. When a relationship structurally comes at the cost of your happiness, it's better to be alone. If any of this has helped you to become happier and more at ease with who you are, I'm already a very happy man. P.S. unlike Yasmin, I could be a lot fitter and still not be attractive enough to make model. Some people just have all the luck  |
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. So...thank you Yasmin!!! 