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Post by mrob on Feb 26, 2018 14:00:57 GMT
My attachment style is intrinsically linked to who I am. It is the lens through which I view life. Your “wanting more contact, and isn’t that a good thing to want” is my “engulfment and I’m out of here”. I’m here because I want to come further towards the middle. Please don’t discount those lenses, that we come from polar opposites and please don’t patronise a view that is different.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 14:17:47 GMT
Maybe. I have had a couple more avoidant people say that they were partly disassociating because they perceive me as expecting them to be a different person than they are, and I think "No, I'm totally in love with you!" but really it's true in that I'm wishing they would be more present, actively trying, and less likely to disappear. I suppose in that sense I did want them to be different from who they were, though you would think wanting someone to put more effort into a relationship should be an okay thing to want... Sounds like gaslighting.. unintentional though. DAs often say that, but that is because, as my DA put it, it is like they are poor and you are asking money from them. That's stupid though. Not in their eyes, but in ours, because it doesn't cost them anything to be more present. It is only discomfort, but once that is gone you notice the AP back off... giving them space and Ta-Daaahh the DA gets the space desired and the AP gets their independence back. However, DAs feel as if their attachment style is linked to their personhood, so he is kind of right in that sense, since he believes that wanting space is who he is Neither needing space or needing reassurance is "stupid". If it was as easy as "Ta-Daaahh", there wouldn't be countless threads in this forum. |
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Post by madamebovary on Feb 26, 2018 15:14:35 GMT
I think whether it's that if you're with someone anxious their anxiety frustrates you and makes you need more space... maybe APs are partially and unintentionally responsible for the avoidance they receive Maybe. I have had a couple more avoidant people say that they were partly disassociating because they perceive me as expecting them to be a different person than they are, and I think "No, I'm totally in love with you!" but really it's true in that I'm wishing they would be more present, actively trying, and less likely to disappear. I suppose in that sense I did want them to be different from who they were, though you would think wanting someone to put more effort into a relationship should be an okay thing to want... My Avoidant said to me (which killed me because I didn’t want it to be true but it was), “You took everything so personally, I always felt like I was hurting you just by being me.” |
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Lola
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Post by Lola on Feb 27, 2018 14:38:08 GMT
My attachment style is intrinsically linked to who I am. It is the lens through which I view life. Your “wanting more contact, and isn’t that a good thing to want” is my “engulfment and I’m out of here”. I’m here because I want to come further towards the middle. Please don’t discount those lenses, that we come from polar opposites and please don’t patronise a view that is different. Opposing viewpoints are always welcomed  I was not sure I understood you correctly. I understand what you said as my personality is me and my avoidant attachment style. That you believe your attachment style is your personality (+ your other quirks and likings etc). I am not the best at expressing myself. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say! |
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Lola
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Post by Lola on Feb 27, 2018 14:43:18 GMT
Sounds like gaslighting.. unintentional though. DAs often say that, but that is because, as my DA put it, it is like they are poor and you are asking money from them. That's stupid though. Not in their eyes, but in ours, because it doesn't cost them anything to be more present. It is only discomfort, but once that is gone you notice the AP back off... giving them space and Ta-Daaahh the DA gets the space desired and the AP gets their independence back. However, DAs feel as if their attachment style is linked to their personhood, so he is kind of right in that sense, since he believes that wanting space is who he is Neither needing space or needing reassurance is "stupid". If it was as easy as "Ta-Daaahh", there wouldn't be countless threads in this forum. It is stupid to say you can't do something, when you can, rather it is better to say you need something hence the Ta-daaah. When you understand what the other person needs you can either give it to them or if you need opposing things you can negotiate. I'm sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention and I often feel misunderstood, because of my lacking skill in communication. My bad. |
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Lola
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Post by Lola on Feb 27, 2018 14:45:31 GMT
Maybe. I have had a couple more avoidant people say that they were partly disassociating because they perceive me as expecting them to be a different person than they are, and I think "No, I'm totally in love with you!" but really it's true in that I'm wishing they would be more present, actively trying, and less likely to disappear. I suppose in that sense I did want them to be different from who they were, though you would think wanting someone to put more effort into a relationship should be an okay thing to want... My Avoidant said to me (which killed me because I didn’t want it to be true but it was), “You took everything so personally, I always felt like I was hurting you just by being me.” I can totally imagine that coming from my DA. So close to home. Maybe it just means that the differences are irreconcilable. I hope things work out for you |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 15:02:58 GMT
Neither needing space or needing reassurance is "stupid". If it was as easy as "Ta-Daaahh", there wouldn't be countless threads in this forum. It is stupid to say you can't do something, when you can, rather it is better to say you need something hence the Ta-daaah. When you understand what the other person needs you can either give it to them or if you need opposing things you can negotiate. I'm sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention and I often feel misunderstood, because of my lacking skill in communication. My bad. I am not offended, I just think you are minimalizing the struggles. If it's just being "stupid", because people can just do it, this forum wouldn't exist. Just because I can understand what the other person needs, doesn't mean I can give it to them. I'm glad it's so easy for you, but if you could walk in someone else's shoes, you might see it's actually not that easy. |
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Lola
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Post by Lola on Feb 27, 2018 15:32:58 GMT
It is stupid to say you can't do something, when you can, rather it is better to say you need something hence the Ta-daaah. When you understand what the other person needs you can either give it to them or if you need opposing things you can negotiate. I'm sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention and I often feel misunderstood, because of my lacking skill in communication. My bad. I am not offended, I just think you are minimalizing the struggles. If it's just being "stupid", because people can just do it, this forum wouldn't exist. Just because I can understand what the other person needs, doesn't mean I can give it to them. I'm glad it's so easy for you, but if you could walk in someone else's shoes, you might see it's actually not that easy. Honestly, it is not easy for me, otherwise, I wouldn't be here either hahah. I just think that the only barrier to do anything you want in life- is you, which seems pretty stupid to me and it extends to more realms and subjects, so I completely understand how rude that may seem. I just got carried away, which that view and forgot to explain it fully. I send you all the good vibes xx |
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Post by leavethelighton on Feb 28, 2018 0:25:24 GMT
Sounds like gaslighting.. unintentional though. DAs often say that, but that is because, as my DA put it, it is like they are poor and you are asking money from them. That's stupid though. Not in their eyes, but in ours, because it doesn't cost them anything to be more present. It is only discomfort, but once that is gone you notice the AP back off... giving them space and Ta-Daaahh the DA gets the space desired and the AP gets their independence back. However, DAs feel as if their attachment style is linked to their personhood, so he is kind of right in that sense, since he believes that wanting space is who he is That is a funny metaphor (the one about money) because sometimes I think of the AP position as throwing coins into a well and they ever reach the bottom, and you never get your wish. |
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Post by leavethelighton on Feb 28, 2018 0:30:30 GMT
Maybe. I have had a couple more avoidant people say that they were partly disassociating because they perceive me as expecting them to be a different person than they are, and I think "No, I'm totally in love with you!" but really it's true in that I'm wishing they would be more present, actively trying, and less likely to disappear. I suppose in that sense I did want them to be different from who they were, though you would think wanting someone to put more effort into a relationship should be an okay thing to want... My Avoidant said to me (which killed me because I didn’t want it to be true but it was), “You took everything so personally, I always felt like I was hurting you just by being me.” Once I was in a similar dynamic with a Cancer (horoscope sign) and I also am a Cancer horoscope sign, and I read this horoscope that was like "Two Cancers will hurt each other without even trying" and it rang as so true. I wonder what would happen if two APs were in a relationship. To me it can feel so personal because it appears from the AP perspective to be symbolic of their not loving you enough. Example: they are late to meet you= they don't love me enough. They don't respond to an email = they don't love me enough. And so on and so on... Anyway, here is a really interesting poem I came across once about the irony of this. ****** Personal By Tony Hoagland Don’t take it personal, they said; but I did, I took it all quite personal— the breeze and the river and the color of the fields; the price of grapefruit and stamps, the wet hair of women in the rain— And I cursed what hurt me and I praised what gave me joy, the most simple-minded of possible responses. The government reminded me of my father, with its deafness and its laws, and the weather reminded me of my mom, with her tropical squalls. Enjoy it while you can, they said of Happiness Think first, they said of Talk Get over it, they said at the School of Broken Hearts but I couldn’t and I didn’t and I don’t believe in the clean break; I believe in the compound fracture served with a sauce of dirty regret, I believe in saying it all and taking it all back and saying it again for good measure while the air fills up with I’m-Sorries like wheeling birds and the trees look seasick in the wind. Oh life! Can you blame me for making a scene? You were that yellow caboose, the moon disappearing over a ridge of cloud. I was the dog, chained in some fool’s backyard; barking and barking: trying to convince everything else to take it personal too. |
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Post by gaynxious on Feb 28, 2018 17:55:18 GMT
I wonder what would happen if two APs were in a relationship.
I'm frustrated by how little information there is on his. I believe Jeb quickly says that it's rare two APs can calm their anxieties enough to learn how to fulfill each other's emotional needs.
I read somewhere it's usually a dramatic mess that ends badly.
One girl I spoke to in an AP-AP relationship says it's nice that there is a lot of closeness but it's also very emotionally draining as there is very little emotional stability.
I'm currently in a somewhat polyglamourous relationship with an extremely anxious man who is also seeing a secure man. We developed an intensely intimate relationship very quickly but his emotional instability led me to concluded it was not going to be a compatible traditional relationship. So I decided to keep thinks somewhere between friends and companions and leave myself open to a more traditional partnership in the future. Fights are horrible. We each spiral out of control. I try to control my impulses but I find myself entirely incapable of keeping up with him jumping from issue to issue.
The plus side is we make up quickly and generally understand each other's needs and are very willing to check in on if each other is ok with something. Surprisingly he is not a jealous person despite being extremely AP so that helps.
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Post by madamebovary on Feb 28, 2018 19:04:05 GMT
I wonder what would happen if two APs were in a relationship. I'm frustrated by how little information there is on his. I believe Jeb quickly says that it's rare two APs can calm their anxieties enough to learn how to fulfill each other's emotional needs. I read somewhere it's usually a dramatic mess that ends badly. One girl I spoke to in an AP-AP relationship says it's nice that there is a lot of closeness but it's also very emotionally draining as there is very little emotional stability. I'm currently in a somewhat polyglamourous relationship with an extremely anxious man who is also seeing a secure man. We developed an intensely intimate relationship very quickly but his emotional instability led me to concluded it was not going to be a compatible traditional relationship. So I decided to keep thinks somewhere between friends and companions and leave myself open to a more traditional partnership in the future. Fights are horrible. We each spiral out of control. I try to control my impulses but I find myself entirely incapable of keeping up with him jumping from issue to issue. The plus side is we make up quickly and generally understand each other's needs and are very willing to check in on if each other is ok with something. Surprisingly he is not a jealous person despite being extremely AP so that helps. I believe- and I could be wrong but this is my experience as I have been with another AP a long, long time ago- but I believe that what would happen is one of them would start displaying avoidant qualities. I am very AP, and this man was even more so, and I started distancing after several months. It was all TOO imtense. I was used to the chase dynamic and having someone chase me was scary and weird. I could never believe he really wanted to be around me that much and the fact that he did made me question his judgement and his motives. It’s sad, really, because it speaks *volumes* about the amount of self-loathing I had then (which still isn’t great... but it’s not that bad). |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 15:20:27 GMT
I wonder what would happen if two APs were in a relationship. I'm frustrated by how little information there is on his. I believe Jeb quickly says that it's rare two APs can calm their anxieties enough to learn how to fulfill each other's emotional needs. I read somewhere it's usually a dramatic mess that ends badly. One girl I spoke to in an AP-AP relationship says it's nice that there is a lot of closeness but it's also very emotionally draining as there is very little emotional stability. I'm currently in a somewhat polyglamourous relationship with an extremely anxious man who is also seeing a secure man. We developed an intensely intimate relationship very quickly but his emotional instability led me to concluded it was not going to be a compatible traditional relationship. So I decided to keep thinks somewhere between friends and companions and leave myself open to a more traditional partnership in the future. Fights are horrible. We each spiral out of control. I try to control my impulses but I find myself entirely incapable of keeping up with him jumping from issue to issue. The plus side is we make up quickly and generally understand each other's needs and are very willing to check in on if each other is ok with something. Surprisingly he is not a jealous person despite being extremely AP so that helps. I believe- and I could be wrong but this is my experience as I have been with another AP a long, long time ago- but I believe that what would happen is one of them would start displaying avoidant qualities. I am very AP, and this man was even more so, and I started distancing after several months. It was all TOO imtense. I was used to the chase dynamic and having someone chase me was scary and weird. I could never believe he really wanted to be around me that much and the fact that he did made me question his judgement and his motives. It’s sad, really, because it speaks *volumes* about the amount of self-loathing I had then (which still isn’t great... but it’s not that bad). , This is interesting. Is it an AP thing that you are uncomfortable with being pursued or do you think it's just unique to you? Was it the fact of being pursued or did you feel smothered? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2018 10:28:41 GMT
mmmmmmm, i actually feel the same if i'm pursued by someone i'm not interested in or someone i've not immediately felt attracted to. I will feel like they want something from me or that they're not good enough for me or there's something wrong with them to be SO interested in me.
it's ok if they are very slightly interested and get to know me first, but if they are just straight up interested when i am not feeling the same, i get weirded out. I don't mind being pursued, but i'm often quite suspicious of being pursued by people i'm not interested in. it's a little like they "connected" with me but i didn't "connect" with them even if we could converse etc (probably because I wasn't connecting with them on a particularly deep level and i was putting on a particular version of me).
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Lola
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Post by Lola on Mar 2, 2018 12:29:04 GMT
The thread got derailed from whether it's possible for an AP to move to the DA/FA side of the spectrum.
In case you're wondering about the AP-AP relationship. I was in one, I quickly became avoidant. Another reason why I wonder how possible is it to flip sides..
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