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Post by yasmin on Feb 16, 2018 3:56:43 GMT
Hi all,
I have been dating someone new for the last couple of weeks, and he's great (seems like a great person and ticks every box), but I feel some of my FA behaviors taking over and really want to stop them before they ruin what could be a nice experience with a nice person. After on-off dating an FA for over a year, I honestly don't think I even had a relationship and it would be nice to just be "normal" dating with someone who's not sending mixed messages or being confusing and just have fun times with a great guy I find really attractive.
I am finding it very tough though!!!!
First of all I am flitting between thinking he's great and then thinking of all these reasons it could never work. Mainly crazy reasons. Like he has kids younger than mine, like he is too active / sporty, like we don't have a deep emotional connection (why would we after two weeks) and the list just goes on. I am finding periods where I really like him and other periods that I want to escape from it. So this is the avoidant side of me.
Then the anxious side flips in and gets really nervous if he doesn't text as much one morning or if he replies to a text with a short answer. I know this is completely crazy because, if anything, this person is REALLY attentive and consistent. He calls every day, he messages throughout the day, he facetimes we when we're not together, he wants to know everything about me, he's being completely lovely so there's no logical reason for me to feel anxious but it's like I am on hyper alert and just trying to catch him out.
I am realising I do this every time I date anybody and often dump them really early in just to escape from what could happen.
This person is nice, I think he's sending good messages, I think he's really serious about wanting to date me and I'd really like to enjoy this and not let it take over.
He's confident (I think he's a secure for sure) and when I've pulled a few anxious or avoidant behaviors he's just been really direct with me and called me out on it and said he really liked me and he thought I really liked him and to tell him whatever he needed to do to win me over and he'd consider it a challenge he'd enjoy. So he's kind of funny with it, no pressure, no drama but just a happy, confident guy who wants to date me and doesn't mind jumping through a few hoops.
Any advice?
My worry right now is that I become all anxious and really ruin it by dumping him for no reason.
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Post by BreakingTheSpell on Feb 16, 2018 12:39:05 GMT
Hello yasmin,
A few remarks: "This person is nice, I think he's sending good messages, I think he's really serious about wanting to date me and I'd really like to enjoy this and not let it take over." You may forget this statement and all the good things he is providing you when your anxiety kicks in.
To break the pattern, you have to start doing things that do not come natural to you. If you worry you will dump him for no reason, set yourself some deadlines. No dumpings allowed before the deadline, doesnt matter how terrible the situation looks like. On the deadline day, you evaluate again, and if you decide to continue, you set another deadline. It is a way to force you to think things 10x and dettach your decisions from your emotions. The dumping for no reason is a very impulsive move, what drives it? In your case, could be the anxiety, but it is not evident (that's why it's called impulse).
Also, it will be wise to start looking at his attachment style from early on before you get super attached. Perhaps you should enquire more about the mother of his kids... everything you can know about the WHYs. And ask him if he had learnt anything from his failed past relationships, and WHAT. Check his level of awareness.
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Post by yasmin on Feb 16, 2018 16:41:15 GMT
That's SUCH a great idea!!! I never thought of that. Thank you! Honestly, it's difficult to say what drives it, but I think in that moment I absolutely know for sure that the person is going to dump me / hurt me / see the real me and stop liking me and it feels much easier to just jump the gun on them and get it overwith. At the time, these small signifies seem completely real to me as indications the person doesn't like me and I'm not able to see logically that I am being irrational. What I am noticing is that fearful avoidance is such a spectrum and it seems to manifest differently in various people. I seem to have only some parts of the characteristics of each attachment style, and only parts of the deactivation / protest strategies of avoidance and anxiety. The avoidant behaviors I have are: 1) I push people away initially to avoid giving the relationship a chance 2) I need a lot of time alone and am very self reliant 3) I make statements about being no good at commitment and not ready for commitment even though I actually want this I deep down feel I don't need it 4) I am drawn to relationships with people who are unavailable (at least 80% of my relationships have been long distance) The ones I DON'T have are focusing on imperfections in a partner, pining after the fantasy ex or "the one", flirting with others, being evasive, not saying "I love you", pulling away when things are going well, “Checking out mentally”, avoiding physical closeness. So I know I don't have to worry about those parts of avoidant behaviors. The anxious behaviors that I have are: 1) I'm suspicious of others’ intentions, words, and actions and tend to read negatives into every little thing. 2) Thinking a lot about the person I am dating and focusing only on their good qualities 3) Anxious feelings after any change or perceived change in their behavior 4) Keeping score: Paying attention to how long it took them to return your phone call and waiting just as long to return theirs; waiting for them to make the first “make-up” move and acting distant until such time. 5) Trying to attention seek / make people jealous and being manipulative The ones I DON'T have are: feeling like the person is "the one", calling, texting and pressuring my partner for a lot of contact, acting hostile, making threats, emotional displays etc., controlling behavior, jealousy. I don't have all the characteristic all the time either, or in every situation, but usually just at the very start of new relationships where I am feeling very vulnerable at someone's intentions with me. Obviously these are all pretty off-putting characteristics though!!! And worse, I can swing from day to day with which I am feeling (avoidant or anxious) depending on small signals from the other person. So for example; the guy I am currently dating sent me flowers on valentines day, plus a video message, plus 3 phonecalls, plus a text in the morning and I felt totally smothered and started listing in my head all the stuff I didn't like about him. Then the next day he was very quiet because he was busy and I found myself freaking out that he didn't like me and suddenly I felt very anxious and started protest behavior and very much felt like dumping him. It's such a crappy way to feel. This is all supposed to be fun not so stressful. I think giving it a deadline is a wonderful idea. I might say to myself then to give this 30 days and assess how I feel afterwards. I am sure getting dumped or let down can't be as bad as feeling this way!!! It ruins every darn relationship except for the ones where the guy likes me soooo much that he tolerates being dumped 80 times. It's not a mature way to be and I feel so bad about being like this. I do know, on a positive note, that once I am actually dating someone / committed, that all these behaviors completely disappear and I don't really experience them at all - aside maybe for a need for a lot of space and autonomy as well as intimacy and connection. I think the reason I like LDRs so much is because I get what I need from it: intimacy at a distance.
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Post by yasmin on Feb 16, 2018 16:51:28 GMT
Also, the more horrible thing about all of this is that is does prevent true intimacy with the other person. They are aware I have "issues", which is evident from the up and down / push and pull and constant dumping BUT the thing is that they don't see it as anxious or clingy (which it is) - they perceive it as "hard to get" or me being unsure about commitment, which unfortunately in today's world men actually find attractive and appealing I never call the guy, I behave coldly a lot of the time, I push people away, I intermittently give affection. So they are enjoying the thrill of the chase and finding it romantic, while I am dying inside. How are two people even connecting or properly dating with this dynamic? I really hate this. I am glad to have a space here where I can admit this, because it's not something I talk about in real life.
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Post by ocarina on Feb 16, 2018 20:38:27 GMT
Gosh this is difficult stuff - brilliant work for even getting as far as dating Yasmin - I just can't imagine it for myself for many of the reasons you have listed.
Of course I am not the person to give advice here - but from what you've written perhaps the majority of the battle is just noticing your behaviours - the coldness, the lack of consistency etc and then instead of beating yourself up and forcing change, sitting with compassion for the fear behind all of this, allowing it to just be there and pass by without reacting.
I so get everything you've written - I have just been out with my ex who clearly wants to discuss us - gives me time and space to do so and yet again I find myself skirting around the issues, walking away without being honest about what I feel. It is like a terrible wall of cement - on the other side which lies closeness and vulnerability whilst I sit firmly in my ice cave.
Love to you and thank you for being so honest.
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Post by yasmin on Feb 16, 2018 22:07:34 GMT
Thank you so much Ocarina. That really helped me. Not just to know someone else gets it but also the idea of just sitting with the anxiety and letting it ride.
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Post by yasmin on Feb 18, 2018 18:44:17 GMT
Well. I'm not doing well on my 30 day plan. I broke it off today.
I'm really confused about whether I'm being avoidabt or whether I just think the relationship is wrong for me.
Today is one of those days I feel like I'm just cut out to be alone.
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Post by ocarina on Feb 18, 2018 19:56:42 GMT
Well. I'm not doing well on my 30 day plan. I broke it off today. I'm really confused about whether I'm being avoidabt or whether I just think the relationship is wrong for me. Today is one of those days I feel like I'm just cut out to be alone. Oh no - how many days was that?!! What happened Yasmin and perhaps most importantly how have you been feeling during this time?
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Post by yasmin on Feb 18, 2018 20:36:15 GMT
It wasn't many days lol. But I do feel it was the right decision and wasn't based on avoidance or anxiety (at least I think so right now).
Basically, he started off pursuing me intensely, and then started pulling back a little subtly over the last few days and said a few things I found really off putting. For example he phoned me really late the other night and woke me up and he was talking about how he had developed strong feelings for me very quickly and it was freaking him out. Then today he said something about not wanting to hurt me, and my experience is that any guy who's genuinely not intending to hurt you would never say that. So once he said that, I just flipped off my switch and told him I didn't think it was working out. He followed up with some stuff about how he was scared because he liked me so much blah blah blah and my brain just disengaged.
I am SO over men who are scared of how much they like me. More interested in ones who are scared to lose me.
I don't think he is avoidant (he handled the confrontation really well and was open and emotional) but I do think he's newly divorced and not ready for a relationship and I definitely didn't want to get sucked into a situation with someone who wasn't sure what they wanted. It felt like he was lining me up to try and keep things on a certain level and I just am not interested in it.
It might be an excuse not to give someone a chance, but I felt like there were a lot of red flags and I just want someone who is 100% sure what they want without confusion otherwise it's going to make me miserable.
How do I feel? Lol. fine, I am avoidant. Ask me again in two weeks and I might have a real answer.
I've been mostly missing my FA anyway, so I don't think I was emotionally invested in this guy.
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Post by ocarina on Feb 18, 2018 20:49:05 GMT
That's good news Yasmin.
A friend once told me that because women in general take a while to work out if they like a dating partner whilst men tend to have more rapid attraction, it's worth applying the maxim:
"Keep saying yes until he gives you a reason to say no."
Sounds like you've had more than one reason to say no here - the very late phone call from someone you don't really know doesn't sound very healthy - neither does the "I really don't want to hurt you line". Partners who are open to a relationship surely go into things without worrying they are going to hurt their S O - unless this is something they've done before......
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Post by yasmin on Feb 18, 2018 20:53:55 GMT
Thanks ocarina it's SO hard for me to distinguish genuine concerns from fabricated ones, but I do feel those words were screaming poor intentions or at least some second thoughts with things. I'd just rather have a simple relationship (I need that now after dating an FA)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 1:02:40 GMT
It wasn't many days lol. But I do feel it was the right decision and wasn't based on avoidance or anxiety (at least I think so right now). Basically, he started off pursuing me intensely, and then started pulling back a little subtly over the last few days and said a few things I found really off putting. For example he phoned me really late the other night and woke me up and he was talking about how he had developed strong feelings for me very quickly and it was freaking him out. Then today he said something about not wanting to hurt me, and my experience is that any guy who's genuinely not intending to hurt you would never say that. So once he said that, I just flipped off my switch and told him I didn't think it was working out. He followed up with some stuff about how he was scared because he liked me so much blah blah blah and my brain just disengaged. I am SO over men who are scared of how much they like me. More interested in ones who are scared to lose me. I don't think he is avoidant (he handled the confrontation really well and was open and emotional) but I do think he's newly divorced and not ready for a relationship and I definitely didn't want to get sucked into a situation with someone who wasn't sure what they wanted. It felt like he was lining me up to try and keep things on a certain level and I just am not interested in it. It might be an excuse not to give someone a chance, but I felt like there were a lot of red flags and I just want someone who is 100% sure what they want without confusion otherwise it's going to make me miserable. How do I feel? Lol. fine, I am avoidant. Ask me again in two weeks and I might have a real answer. I've been mostly missing my FA anyway, so I don't think I was emotionally invested in this guy. These are all good reasons. I don't like men that say I'm scared because I like you too much cause hey, that's my line (haha). If you miss the ex still, it will difficult to be invested in someone else. I can't even think about dating yet.
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Post by yasmin on Feb 19, 2018 7:54:49 GMT
And reliable as clockwork, my FA started messaging me last night after three weeks NC.
I'm in the same position as you @mary in the sense that I know a relationship can't work but also feel it's too hard to insist on NC.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 14:13:24 GMT
And reliable as clockwork, my FA started messaging me last night after three weeks NC. I'm in the same position as you @mary in the sense that I know a relationship can't work but also feel it's too hard to insist on NC. I did some thinking about this yesterday about why the NC is so hard for me with this person even though he has hurt me. It is partially about my attachment to them but also, a big part is their attachment to me. If I think their attachment to me is very strong as well, my feelings of not wanting to abandon that person take over. I know all too well what abandonment feels like and I don't want someone I love to feel that. This has happened to me before with a long time friend. She did some very horrible things to me yet I remained her friend for over 15 years. If they were to leave me, the NC would be easy for me. Lots of hugs to you. The situation has broken my heart over and over. I hope you find some peace soon.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 14:25:56 GMT
And reliable as clockwork, my FA started messaging me last night after three weeks NC. I'm in the same position as you @mary in the sense that I know a relationship can't work but also feel it's too hard to insist on NC. I did some thinking about this yesterday about why the NC is so hard for me with this person even though he has hurt me. It is partially about my attachment to them but also, a big part is their attachment to me. If I think their attachment to me is very strong as well, my feelings of not wanting to abandon that person take over. I know all too well what abandonment feels like and I don't want someone I love to feel that. This has happened to me before with a long time friend. She did some very horrible things to me yet I remained her friend for over 15 years. If they were to leave me, the NC would be easy for me. Lots of hugs to you. The situation has broken my heart over and over. I hope you find some peace soon. i’m sorry you guys are hurting this way too, it seems like it took me forever to come around to insisting on NC with my ex. I hated it. But, the last time we engaged i realized that i felt absolutely manipulated , like he was trying to keep me on the bench, sideline me, knowing full well he can’t give me the relationship i want but not wanting me to go find it with someone who can. he had admitted he felt jealous and angry about me finding someone new. so he had at least that much awareness and honesty. But he also wanted to keep me on the phone for an hour exchanging sweet sentiments, only to remind me he has too many issues to be the right one for me. The mind-f*ckery for me was contagious and i started wobbling, getting confused, conflicted. i am not confused. i ended it because i hit my limit! nothing has changed! i don’t need to be confused! Its messy, all of it. Personally, i feel peaceful and resolved with NC. Being emotionally held on a string felt like a punch in the stomach after all i have done to let go and grieve. The pain of staying in contact FINALLY outweighed the pain of NC itself. it took quite a bit of inner turmoil to get there tho. the whole process is awful.
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