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Post by brokenbiscuit on Jul 24, 2018 5:54:10 GMT
The comments from your partner in the original post sound extremely abusive. Although being avoidant and running from commitment/intimacy can be seen (quite rightly) as toxic behaviour, its not done to intentionally hurt or crush or belittle the other partner. The verbal outbursts from your partner are doing exactly that. I think your partner may have issues that go deeper and darker than attachment type. I hope you make the best decision for yourself and can learn that you do not have to accept that kind of behaviour anymore in your life. I know how hard it is to seperate from a partner who reminds you of a parent... Im exactly the same (thanks Freud!). Please take care of your wellbeing first and foremost, and be good to yourself
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joan
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Post by joan on Jul 24, 2018 5:56:43 GMT
joan that is heartbreaking. He might be DA, but this is an abusive dynamic. If you can't trust yourself to be alone, have you considered starting therapy to build up some resources that will help you have the confidence to leave and stay gone? Tigrio - I'm in therapy right now, and have been from almost the start of this relationship. She has encouraged me to build up resources and activities to help build up my confidence and to learn to lean on myself more. It's been helpful, and while the process has been slow, I do find myself feeling less anxious and able to enjoy being with myself more
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Jul 24, 2018 5:59:48 GMT
I I struggled to understand why the man who is supposed to love you would want to destroy you or take you down, and you are both in the same boat - you sink, he sinks, but he tries to sink you anyway. There’s an old parable about a frog and a scorpion that provides a valuable lesson. As the story goes, the scorpion wanted to get across a lake. Because scorpions can’t swim, it asked a frog to transport it. The frog refused, saying, “You’re a scorpion; if I allow you on my back, surely you’ll sting me and I’ll die.” The scorpion replied, “Why would I sting you? I can’t swim, so I’d be foolish to sting you. It would mean my death too.” The frog saw the logic of the argument and agreed to ferry the scorpion across the lake. When they were near the middle of the lake, the scorpion stung the frog. The frog cried out, “Why did you sting me? Now we’ll both die.” The scorpion replied, “Because I am a scorpion."
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joan
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Post by joan on Jul 24, 2018 6:13:38 GMT
The comments from your partner in the original post sound extremely abusive. Although being avoidant and running from commitment/intimacy can be seen (quite rightly) as toxic behaviour, its not done to intentionally hurt or crush or belittle the other partner. The verbal outbursts from your partner are doing exactly that. I think your partner may have issues that go deeper and darker than attachment type. I hope you make the best decision for yourself and can learn that you do not have to accept that kind of behaviour anymore in your life. I know how hard it is to seperate from a partner who reminds you of a parent... Im exactly the same (thanks Freud!). Please take care of your wellbeing first and foremost, and be good to yourself I do believe he's got other issues besides being an avoidant. I'm not exactly sure what they are, bipolar possibly being one of them. I know it's not for me to try to figure out or fix, and I've been trying to move away from that thought of thinking and work on my own issues that keep me in this type of abusive situation. I really appreciate your response, and compassion. I'm trying to learn to have more of that for myself.
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joan
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Post by joan on Jul 24, 2018 6:42:01 GMT
I concur with tnr's opinion that he is a narcissist. I went through that particular hell myself, and unfortunately, neither I nor anyone around me knew about personality disorders and I received some really really bad advice from my circle of friends who are mostly themselves empathetic persons. My ex was so handsome, so charming, seemingly so sympathetic, so accomplished in public, that everyone thought he was the perfect partner for me. In private, he was the monster you described. My friends' bad advice was to stay and try to make it work. It not only wasted years of my life it took a terrible toll on me psychologically. It is only when I read up on Cluster B disorders and Narcissistic Personality Disorder that I finally realized what I was up against. It is like a primitive tribe fighting an enemy who uses nuclear, chemical or biological warfare - you don't even have the slightest concept of what you are meeting head on, gaslighting, projection, lovebombing, entitlement to everything and everyone around, zero empathy, devaluation, inability to comprehend "love", etc. none of which makes any sense to a normal person who wants to lead a normal life. I struggled to understand why the man who is supposed to love you would want to destroy you or take you down, and you are both in the same boat - you sink, he sinks, but he tries to sink you anyway. The question you need to ask yourself is why would you stay to keep getting yourself hurt? My "disorder" was the naive faith that people are basically good, and that all of us have issues, we are all works in progress, he will "wake up" and realize that abuse of a giving partner trying to do her best by him is wrong, etc. He never apologized for every instance of emotional abuse but he would return to lovebomb, before it all started over again. So I kept thinking that he would "wake up". That was a deluded attitude and I had to learn a hard lesson. I really hope that you don't have to go through what we went through. He needs help, but he has to find it himself, and he won't if he can keep doing what he does to others to exact Supply, admiration, love, generosity and letting the vicious rage out on innocents who do not fight back, to feed the dark void within, that primordial void that was formed long before you met. To answer your question, it doesn't, until he ends it himself by seeking the professional help he needs. Even then, you might not have a different person, as certain traits (eg. lack of ability to empathize) can't be willed into existence, but at least he might turn into someone who is more mindful of his behavior towards others.
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joan
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Post by joan on Jul 24, 2018 6:57:28 GMT
Thank you to all of you who have responded to my post. I'm so grateful to have your understanding, compassion, advice, and support. It truly touched me to hear your words of encouragement. It can feel pretty lonely when after awhile I can no longer go to my family and friends because I've exhausted their support. They've repeatedly told me to leave, yet I stay, and not just stay but cling on for dear life. It feels shameful so I no longer talk about the abuse or treatment. I feel even more isolated. So it feels really good to be able to share my thoughts and experiences on here without judgement. Again thank you so very much!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 8:59:24 GMT
We are here for you. I think there are many among us, of all attachment types, who have endured and been devastated by narcissistic abuse, but have eventually emerged stronger and wiser. Some of us have been through the cycle more than once in different relationships before we were able to deliver ourselves. The vulnerability to this type of dynamic is created by wounds to our psyche when we were small. Any of us is vulnerable, so it's not something uniquely deficient about you. You aren't alone by any means. Here's an idea, those of us who have come through this might be able to create a vision for you, of your untangling. If i imagine you to be tied down with heavy ropes, and unable to free yourself, I, Juniper, would grab the thickest and heaviest i could find, the one called Shame, and cut it with a big fat knife. Shame might tell you that you are fundamentally flawed, and that the cause of this predicament is something inherently faulty in YOU, and if you were only to find and rectify this flaw, things would be better. Or it might tell you that you aren't good enough to do differently, so why even try. It might confuse you and tell you you're stupid and weak. I don't know what Shame tells you, privately, but I see it well enough to identify it and hack it off of you 😡 The elixir that i would offer you in a little cup to help sustain you, and counter the Shame that bound you, is the understanding that Shame ITSELF is the wound, it's what's "wrong" . it's not your fault, it's the result of what has happened to you. It was inflicted on you, in you, by people who were suffering probably in much the same way on some level, maybe your parents. Maybe they never figured it out and perpetuated their pain in you. Shame can't tell you the truth because it IS THE WOUND, it is not who you are. But it keeps you tied to what hurts you. Each of us who had endured this might see a particular rope we'd like to cut off of you and have a little elixir to soothe the rope burns. I can also see loneliness, sadness, despair, isolation, frustration, a whole lot of ropes. @curious, tnr9 do you see particular ropes you can help joan identify and cut off? Just to help her visualize what healing might look like? Also, t9nr's comment about ALWAYS TAKING RESPONSIBILITY
joan - look up whatever support you can find, write a plan of action (keep it secure), including all your crucial contact numbers, passwords, etc. Then understand that you have to leave. I have been through this and come out the other side (although I had little to no support). If you have handled the abuse, you can handle getting away from this. Yes - SHAME is what underlies it. His shame that he is projecting onto you (that was probably passed down by his carers - but that's his issue, not yours). You are better than him / better than this. When you get to a place of believing that - and can throw away / give back the shame that never was yours - you will be on the healing path. (When you do give the shame back, just quietly and confidently - and safely - by standing up to them / whoever it is, and telling them what they're doing is unacceptable is the best way. When you turn their shame back, they can react in awful ways, depending on their wounds - but it is pretty powerful). Stay safe x
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 24, 2018 9:07:00 GMT
Thank you to all of you who have responded to my post. I'm so grateful to have your understanding, compassion, advice, and support. It truly touched me to hear your words of encouragement. It can feel pretty lonely when after awhile I can no longer go to my family and friends because I've exhausted their support. They've repeatedly told me to leave, yet I stay, and not just stay but cling on for dear life. It feels shameful so I no longer talk about the abuse or treatment. I feel even more isolated. So it feels really good to be able to share my thoughts and experiences on here without judgement. Again thank you so very much! Joan...you can certainly reach out to me via private message. I stayed too....3 years....trying to be accommodating to a man who reminded me of my dad. I get it. And I too had to use my time to try to become more independent...but..for me there was only so much of the "cycle" I could take. I wish you well.
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Post by leavethelighton on Jul 25, 2018 0:02:32 GMT
If you are leaving an abusive relationship, there are websites and organizations out there to guide you in how to do it most safely (everything from how to set up your finances to what to do the actual day you leave). Do you know if there is such an organization in your geographic area?
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joan
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Post by joan on Jul 28, 2018 7:06:13 GMT
If you are leaving an abusive relationship, there are websites and organizations out there to guide you in how to do it most safely (everything from how to set up your finances to what to do the actual day you leave). Do you know if there is such an organization in your geographic area? Compassionateavoid - I almost wish I was forced to stay due to finances or some other external reason like that. It's me who chooses to stay. He's broken up with me plenty of times, but it's me who clings on. We don't live together. We don't share finances, and he doesn't even consider me his girlfriend. Yet we've been seeing/dating each other for almost three years. I could walk away at any time and I know he would hardly put up a fight. Though I never have walked away. He may reach out to me later on down the line. I do see that happening. It's me who chooses to stay. I'm in therapy, and just hoping eventually my desire to leave will outweigh my power to stay. He goes through these phases where he'll be sweet, thoughtful, affectionate and loving. Usually it'll only last a month, rarely a couple of months without incident. Right now it's one of those rare times where it's gone for a couple of months. It's during these times that I get comfortable, and I feel I'm getting something out of this. It's all wonderful and feels good. I almost think he purposefully acts sweet and loving for a while because he knows when he blows up, threatens to break up and is emotionally abusive I'll stick it out because I'm clinging onto the sweet part of him. I've briefly considered he was a narcissist. My last relationship was with one but they act different in certain ways and that's why I never fully thought the current person I'm seeing is one.
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joan
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Post by joan on Jul 28, 2018 7:10:14 GMT
Thank you to all of you who have responded to my post. I'm so grateful to have your understanding, compassion, advice, and support. It truly touched me to hear your words of encouragement. It can feel pretty lonely when after awhile I can no longer go to my family and friends because I've exhausted their support. They've repeatedly told me to leave, yet I stay, and not just stay but cling on for dear life. It feels shameful so I no longer talk about the abuse or treatment. I feel even more isolated. So it feels really good to be able to share my thoughts and experiences on here without judgement. Again thank you so very much! Joan...you can certainly reach out to me via private message. I stayed too....3 years....trying to be accommodating to a man who reminded me of my dad. I get it. And I too had to use my time to try to become more independent...but..for me there was only so much of the "cycle" I could take. I wish you well. tnr9 - Thank you, I really appreciate your offer of more support. I hope to get to where you are where I get fed up and walk away.
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joan
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Post by joan on Jul 28, 2018 7:38:42 GMT
I've had to reread all of your messages to really let your stories, experiences, and advice sink in. Your words and advice are even better than what I've read in self-help books because this is coming from real people who've experienced what I have and most of you seemed to persevere. You are here to better yourselves, understand yourselves and to find joy and peace within. Maybe like me to stop hurting inside, and allowing others to hurt you because of this emptiness inside that somehow thrives off of the pain because it's better than feeling nothing.
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