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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 18:28:07 GMT
Just keep it real everybody, and stick together. lol. Reality is out there and we need to see it for what it is, before we can change it. keep posting!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 18:40:59 GMT
Just keep it real everybody, and stick together. lol. Reality is out there and we need to see it for what it is, before we can change it. keep posting! [br I just keep reading what you have said over and over again. And i need to stay very close to this site. it warms my heart to know that i can be a part of your refuge. 🌸 see, that's a formerly deeply dismissive avoidant saying that so anything's possible lol! |
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Post by notalone on Jul 26, 2018 19:43:23 GMT
May I ask you juniper - Can you bluntly tell me: if you suggest no-contact with this guy? If you suggest not dating right now? Ha, that's a hard one. Why? because of impulse! sometimes, fighting an impulse is more of a dilemma than just engaging and walking it out with open eyes. For this reason, i actually suggest- don't change anything but your awareness right now. As you remain in contact, as you ruminate; as you go through highs and lows and anxiety and fantasy and every mood and feeling that comes with contact with this guy, just be aware of it. Live it, feel it, let it wear you down if you need to, just be fully present to it. That's what has worked for me and i know it's not necessarily a "go to" answer for everyone. I am the kind that has had to ride the ride till i was inspired by insight and exhaustion or empowerment to get the hell off it. And that exhaustion, insight, and empowerment came from tasting every damn bite of the plate in front of me. But that's me. As long as you take responsibility for every thought, feeling, and action that you take, ultimately- do whatever is in front of you. Then, when you say enough, you'll have truly had enough. My thing is , i can survive anything but my own dead end- that is intolerable to me. Doesn't matter, how i get there. If i get to a dead end doing things the old way i know for sure i will find a new route and nothing was lost. If there was a pat "do it this way" answer that worked this would be easy. But it's not- it's a process. An alcoholic stops drinking a long time before they put the bottle down. They start stopping when the suffering sinks in enough and they can't blame anyone else. they start stopping when they know they can't go on. Until then, good luck getting them to see it. I'm the same way. Good habits start with awareness and getting plain sick and tired of the of the bad habits. If you're in bad habits and you know it, just get really familiar with every damn bad habit with your eyes wide open. That will give you some insight on how exactly how and what to change, if you stay close to your supports in the meantime. Of course, you have begun to wake up and sleeping is no longer an option. So stay close to recovery resources and just do your day, you'll know when to change it up. That my best advice actually. Some say- don't do this, don't do that.... i say, go ahead and do it and feel every damn bit of it. Maybe it's something only an avoidant can approach this way, i have no idea! i really don't but there ya go! Someone will chime in and steer this another way of i have just told you something harmful- i would accept that lol. i have no idea!  Oh right you identify as avoidant...that makes sense.
I'm not as confident as you in my survival. I can't detach, and the pain is often more than I feel like I can handle.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 20:58:46 GMT
notalone, that's the thing tho- feel out what you need to do to keep inching in the right direction, and your confidence will grow as you earn your own trust and respect. it all happens in increments, decision by gut wrenching decision, experience by experience. You can bear it, and you can gradually train yourself to bear it more easily. it's incremental change, sometimes excruciating change--- keep close to support and feel it out. i am naturally avoidant, been that way all my life although i have developed emotional availability and security- i can only speak from the avoidant POV but will back you up however i can.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 26, 2018 21:46:11 GMT
I'm not as confident as you in my survival. I can't detach, and the pain is often more than I feel like I can handle.
As a fellow AP...here is where our growth curve lies...to take back ownership of our feelings. That does not mean bearing the pain of it alone...but own that it is your pain, because "he" isn't doing anything and yet you feel pain....just as I feel pain. Our pain is real...it is associating that pain to another person that is the trap....it keeps us yearning for someone else to address the pain because the pain feels very much caused by someone outside of us. But it is not....the pain is inside you....and you are stronger then you think. Sit with it 5 minutes....and then see if you can sit with it 5 minutes more. It is ok to reach out to a friend and have that friend comfort you...it is expecting that someone else can make us ok that is the lie....I live with it too. You can do this. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 21:49:08 GMT
I'm not as confident as you in my survival. I can't detach, and the pain is often more than I feel like I can handle.
As a fellow AP...here is where our growth curve lies...to take back ownership of our feelings. That does not mean bearing the pain of it alone...but own that it is your pain, because "he" isn't doing anything and yet you feel pain....just as I feel pain. Our pain is real...it is associating that pain to another person that is the trap....it keeps us yearning for someone else to address the pain because the pain feels very much caused by someone outside of us. But it is not....the pain is inside you....and you are stronger then you think. Sit with it 5 minutes....and then see if you can sit with it 5 minutes more. It is ok to reach out to a friend and have that friend comfort you...it is expecting that someone else can make us ok that is the lie....I live with it too. You can do this. yes , what she said! i can be the peanut gallery and cheer you on tho! 😬 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 22:17:40 GMT
I'm not as confident as you in my survival. I can't detach, and the pain is often more than I feel like I can handle.
As a fellow AP...here is where our growth curve lies...to take back ownership of our feelings. That does not mean bearing the pain of it alone...but own that it is your pain, because "he" isn't doing anything and yet you feel pain....just as I feel pain. Our pain is real...it is associating that pain to another person that is the trap....it keeps us yearning for someone else to address the pain because the pain feels very much caused by someone outside of us. But it is not....the pain is inside you....and you are stronger then you think. Sit with it 5 minutes....and then see if you can sit with it 5 minutes more. It is ok to reach out to a friend and have that friend comfort you...it is expecting that someone else can make us ok that is the lie....I live with it too. You can do this. It's a flippin' nightmare being an AP - our feelings are so tuned-in and tuned-up. I sooooo wish I could turn them off as FA/DA's do, I can't tell you how different my life would be if I could do that (I have a strong FA-part, but it is not an unfeeling one, it developed through the unfeeling of others in my upbringing, sort of like my dealing with their lack of feeling). But I suppose we wouldn't be who we are if we could do that. At times, I've thought the pain (of feeling the feelings) could kill me ... but it hasn't yet. And actually, my health issues seems to subside when I can express / let out those feelings, in whatever way. Writing this stuff helps me realise stuff too. As tnr9 says - you are stronger than you think x |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 22:26:34 GMT
And believe me, the dismissing only goes so far and really hasn't always been intentional, in fact the dismissing (deactivation) is an involuntary response in me, like activation is for an AP i suppose.
As dismissing became less natural; feeling became more natural.
I have felt turned inside out and gutted by emotions that arose, felt screams in my throat and let them out so as not to have my entire body explode.
I have been skinned alive by my feelings, i've been smashed in the ribs, and i've been slowly pulled underwater with grief grief grief.
Pain comes calling to set us free, but it won't let us go without feeling it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 22:46:39 GMT
thank you very much for the kind words Helsbells. Oddly, i am very tactile, have always been. well no, i was as a child and then i guess i wasn't through much adult life but i have been for a while so i forget i wasn't always that way. but i am very affectionate- even it grew over the last few years before i knew about attachment theory. i reformed my dismissive partner into being an affectionate person. we used to just lay in silence and hold hands, and we snuggled a lot. Just breathing together in contact. It's good for humans , it's good for every warm blooded animal to have touch. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 23:28:48 GMT
thank you very much for the kind words Helsbells . Oddly, i am very tactile, have always been. well no, i was as a child and then i guess i wasn't through much adult life but i have been for a while so i forget i wasn't always that way. but i am very affectionate- even it grew over the last few years before i knew about attachment theory. i reformed my dismissive partner into being an affectionate person. we used to just lay in silence and hold hands, and we snuggled a lot. Just breathing together in contact. It's good for humans , it's good for every warm blooded animal to have touch. Juniper I am sad because if i had known about the different attachment style before hand I might still be with my ex. Is this totally unrealistic thinking . Sorry to always to burden you with my stuff. Did you read my recent post to not alone on staying in no contact. I would really value your advice and input on this matter, xx i'm sorry to say, i truly believe that what you have described for you and the person you were involved with, seems very much driven by wounding and not driven by healing. and, i understand it is very common for AP to fall into the trap of thinking, "if only i knew this, did that, didn't do that, etc". this is a delusion, it is based on power to gain what you compulsively want from an unavavailable source, it is the wound weeping, it's not based on the actual truth of what it takes to make a relationship balanced and healthy and reciprocal. It is not up to one partner to compensate with knowledge and understanding- that's the old voice talking. It is up to two people making a unified effort, consciously, aware and awake and progressively more available- NOT acting out their scripts and just trying to bumble along for the sake of not having to be alone. This united effort takes a great deal of awareness and effort between two insecure attachment styles. As triggered and emotionally dependent and anxiously preoccupied as you are at this point of your journey, you are not able to sustain a healthy relationship with a partner , mich less your attachment style nemesis , the avoidant. Your old tapes are still playing and you haven't made new ones yet. This is my perspective, and it's a warm one not a cold one, delivered with sincerity and belief that you can and must heal your wounds more before embarking on a relationship. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 27, 2018 3:08:25 GMT
Helsbells....I completely understand your line of thinking.....We get into lopsided relationships because we don't believe we are good enough just as we are...so we look for an upper hand, a guarantee, some approach that will make the desired partner never want to leave....again the fixation is outside of us...we are unacceptable so we must prove our worth...that is the lie that shadows us from our childhood. Believe me, the perceived rejection I feel is excruciating at times.....but my choice is whether I own that feeling of rejection and tenderly care for it or whether I associate back to "him" and spend my time pining for what cannot be. I am choosing to own it and care for it. Freedom lies in the knowledge that you are worthy of love just as you are...you don't need the upper hand, you don't need to know about attachment theory...the person who truly loves you will love you as you are..flaws and all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2018 3:33:28 GMT
AP's of course speak very well , much better than i, to the internal mechanisms of each other.
you guys seem to really understand what's going on inside you in your relationships which kind of mystifies me because i have had to think so hard about what is going on inside of me, to figure it out in fine detail. it's like peeling back layers for me to understand where i am amiss with myself in intimate relationships.
so, as a quick aside- even as newbies, can you see so clearly how you are thinking, i mean, are you consciously aware that you don't feel worthy when you're in a relationship or do you figure out later...
" aha, i did such and such and felt this way and the underlying mystery solved is... i don't feel worthy! "
I am wondering if i am similar or dissimilar in this regard, just curious because it really seems like you guys are all on the same page with that and i feel like we avoidants have to kind of slog through more to identify what the heck is going on inside.
i don't feel unworthy at all but i have felt in the past that i have to prove myself somehow- not that i'm not good enough- but that i have to prove that i am because i don't believe i am seen for who i am. I am certain that comes from being a scapegoat and having a lot of stuff projected on to me. i don't think i operate that way any more, at least i got past it with my recent partner. but it's been an identifiable theme that i can only understand in retrospect.
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Post by anne12 on Jul 27, 2018 7:52:03 GMT
An attatchment therapist says that everytime an AP thinks about the other, you have to ask youself: "What about ME, what about ME, what do I want and need to care for ME right now?" Focus back to you!
Calming down your overthinking and feelings - get up in your head = up on the balcony.
Boundaries? Where are your boundaries with this guy? You are treating yourself as a doormat! (Sorry if I am to harsh). People do not respect a doormat, because you do not respect yourself! Try to see if you can find some anger.
Do some exercises - get the energy out of your body.
Alison Armstrong says:
As a woman you have to know the difference between an A type of guy and a type B type of guy:
A- they are "hungry" and they see you as their "fridge"
B - the men who falls in love with your essens, who will treat you right, who also thinks about, what will be good for you.
You have been dating an A type of guy.
In the future, you have to know how to see the difference. Guys have a much better feeling about other guys than women do. Ask some of your guy friends next time, what they think about your new date.
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Post by tnr9 on Jul 27, 2018 10:12:07 GMT
AP's of course speak very well , much better than i, to the internal mechanisms of each other. you guys seem to really understand what's going on inside you in your relationships which kind of mystifies me because i have had to think so hard about what is going on inside of me, to figure it out in fine detail. it's like peeling back layers for me to understand where i am amiss with myself in intimate relationships. so, as a quick aside- even as newbies, can you see so clearly how you are thinking, i mean, are you consciously aware that you don't feel worthy when you're in a relationship or do you figure out later... " aha, i did such and such and felt this way and the underlying mystery solved is... i don't feel worthy! " I am wondering if i am similar or dissimilar in this regard, just curious because it really seems like you guys are all on the same page with that and i feel like we avoidants have to kind of slog through more to identify what the heck is going on inside. i don't feel unworthy at all but i have felt in the past that i have to prove myself somehow- not that i'm not good enough- but that i have to prove that i am because i don't believe i am seen for who i am. I am certain that comes from being a scapegoat and having a lot of stuff projected on to me. i don't think i operate that way any more, at least i got past it with my recent partner. but it's been an identifiable theme that i can only understand in retrospect. I can only speak for myself...but I have always known my internal processes and feelings...even as a youngish child (around 10) I felt things deeply. The unworthiness feeling I believe, in part, is what causes the difference between AP and DA (and to some extent FA)...and as such, our motives are different, our outlook is different...that unworthiness feeling is what drives us to constantly look for validation from our partner (and others) while also looking for "signs" that our partner will leave. I think that is why my attachment system is always on...because I am always "hungry" to feel worthy and am convinced somewhere at a soul level that I am not. I have entered into relationships very hopeful that I will succeed this time in pushing away those feelings of inadequacy only to find myself slipping back into old patterns of fear based rumination. In early journal entries about B, I actually wrote that I expected he would become bored and leave and the whole relationship was then looking for validation that he was actually happy with me while also looking for signs that he was not. This is why I keep going back to ownership...to pulling back to self...because somehow the story has become...I am unworthy and I need "you" to make me feel worthy. So worthiness is externalized onto others. And as much as that pattern is a self fulfilling prophecy (he left me thus I am unworthy or at least feel that way) the other option of having to be responsible to my own enoughness feels like crap and thus the "hope" that says, "next time it can be different, this new guy will love me" but also says, "if only had done such and such that prior guy would have stayed". And it is odd...there are almost 2 camps....those who can move on to the next relationship rather quickly and those who stay focused on a past partner (which is where I fall..it is what brought me here). Also..as Annie pointed out, I am feeling/heart driven....not so much logic/head driven...which is why I have entered into relationships that on paper were full of red flags...Narcs, addicts, men who were underemployed...because I could see their "potential" and that is what I would run with..because then I was "useful", I could "help", I could "caretake" and they would just be so grateful and would love me back...or that was the story I told myself...codependency tendencies run deep in me. I will say that it feels very much like I am trying to swim upstream against a current of what was once perceived as useful patterns of behavior....I find myself slipping back far too often into thinking about "him" versus being present to myself...although I am getting better at catching myself. And owning my feelings as separate from another person is helping to remove some of the urgency that drives my rumination. I hope this helps. |
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Post by brokenbiscuit on Jul 27, 2018 10:46:00 GMT
Helsbels, I sound just like your partner. It's me, down to a tee. Right down to the not inviting my gf to meet friends and family (that's too intimate) right down to freaking out online (block/unblock/block again). Everything you write about is how I have been.
When he says "I want you to meet someone else who can make you happy" that's his guilt speaking. He doesn't really want you to do that, it's just another part of the push pull dynamic, this time filled by his guilt of how he is treating you and being aware he is making you feel confused and sad. He cares for you. These moments are him realising how his actions are making you feel and being sad about it, and wanting better for you. However, if you actually did meet someone and finished with him he would be plunged into a deep emotional wound, exactly the same hurt and pain that you as an AP would feel from being rejected (abandoned) by someone you love (remember, FAs are like you in soooooo many ways and this is one of them. People always think of FAs as purely avoidant but we are not... Its split partways with us). It's unbearable.
Only difference between me and your partner is that I am now self aware of why I do what I do, but it took me being rejected/abandoned finally by my idealised "the one" ex AP and thus making me look deep into the abyss of my soul to get to where I am now. While the on/off dance continues with you two speak g to each other, there will be no time for such self reflection. All our energy is put into the dance, keeping you closd but not too close. It's a cruel balancing act and takes a lot of our emotional energy to keep you there.
I will try my best to give you some guidance on what your partner is feeling, and how you can help overcome things, but it won't be easy. He needs to be fully self aware and currently he is not and may never well be. I spoke to my therapist last night. She is specialised in attachment theory and trauma for almost twenty years. She says I am the first fully recognisable FA who has ever walked into her office - she has dealt with many many aware/unaware DAs and APs before. She is very excited about helping me as I am such a rare breed for her! She even spent an extra 45 mins talking to me after our session had officially ended last night. Yay free therapy
What I'm trying to say is that becoming cognigant of who we are, and then being brave enough to face those issues (which means facing terrifying unresolved /impactfull childhood trauma or CPTSD) is quite rare for an FA. We run from intimacy, and we run from ourselves. Abandonment, and facing our old abandonment wounds can NOT be tolerated. It's too much for us, we are too emotive and frightened to face the darkness. Self defeating and contradictory in what we want, we are frustrating to be with and often frustrating to help..
We want love but it terrifies us. Our need for intimacy with our lover is intense. But the danger of being abandoned wins every time, and rather than fight, we flight. Think of it as being really really thirsty, unbearably so, but thinking that all the water is poisoned. That's us.
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