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Post by tnr9 on Sept 6, 2018 14:37:54 GMT
Hi all! I've been away from this forum for several months dealing with my break up and life in general. I've been having some issues with the breakup with my ex AP and thought it would be nice to get some input from people here. Many of you know my story, but basically I am DA and I was in a long relationship with someone I thought was secure, but over time, realized he's more AP. We broke up several months ago and since then he has contacted me several times to reconcile. I have remained in contact with him, but have not wanted to reconcile. I have tried being friendly and responding to his texts and emails, but firmly saying I am final in my decision. (ok, there have been some hookups since the break up, so that was very bad on my part). After some time though, I started thinking it was more detrimental to him to remain in contact, when I thought I was being nice by responding and remaining friendly. Recently, I have pulled way back and told him I was going to be doing that. He said it wasn't a good idea and he wanted to remain in my life as either bf or friend. I still respond if he contacts me, but I'm short with my answers and don't tell him what's going on with me. Even at that, I wonder if no contact or another way is better. My question is, is it better (from AP perspective) if I leave him alone entirely (no contact) or continue as I have been? I want him to move on, and be happy, but I would feel terrible if I completely ignored him (even if I told him I was going to). Just recently, he asked if I would go to couple's therapy with him. I said I would go if he wanted me to, but that I was happy the way things are (broken up). In the beginning I thought I was helping him by responding, but it doesn't seem to be the case. He doesn't want to move on. Thoughts? I also admit that I am part of the problem. I don't really want to cut him out entirely as he was a huge part of my life and that is hard to let go of even if I I don't want to remain partners. Mary...welcome back. 😀 I have missed you on these boards and had wondered how you were doing. Here is the thing....it really depends on what your intentions are with keeping contact. If you only want him in your life as a "friend", then I would go no contact with him to allow him to grieve. Even though you have been clear with your intentions..li suspect he is looking for any shred of hope to win you back...thus he has not really grieved the relationship so he can move on. I am on the opposite side of such an equation and it really has not helped me to be in contact with B...you can look at my post a few below this one (as well as other posts by me) to see how contact affects the AP thinking. I would put money on the fact that he is trying every single angle he can..including couples therapy...because he wants to go back in time and get a do over. If you are firm in your stance that you want him in your life...but not as your boyfriend..then it will be much kinder to him to let him go and grieve. You may need to be the strong and firm one by adhering to boundaries...but it will help him to move on faster if he does not have the hope telling him a do over is possible. I would be kind about it...let him know that you support his decision for therapy for himself, but that you need to focus on yourself and moving forward with your life and that you wish him well. Then go no contact. Honestly...I wish now that B had done that for me. I would have been forced to accept things rather than cling to a hope that only existed in my mind. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 15:06:34 GMT
tnr9, thank you for the response and the warm welcome  . I have been really torn up over the break up and have been hibernating, licking my wounds in private so to speak. I think in my mind, I have always known it would be better for him to go no contact. In the very beginning, I suggested absolute no contact and that if either of us messed up, that the other would not respond. He had a melt down that I had never seen before from him and so I recanted it. Despite being DA, I have a huge soft spot for him and I find it hard to resist running to him if he needs me. I wonder if this is just part of the DA/AP dance? I don't know. Boundaries are usually very easy for me, but with him, it's hard to resist his bids. Also, I am not sure that reconciliation is impossible. At this time, I do not want it, but it gets harder and harder to resist when I know that he wants to. I don't know if this makes any sense. I'm trying to sift through it all still.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 15:30:21 GMT
hi @mary,
i'm sorry you've been struggling, breakups are so painful.
have you been able to identify what aspects of the relationship with him are appealing to you?
are there avenues of growth that you could envision for yourself, by choosing one direction or another?
the reason i ask, is that i have been able to identify those things in my own relationship and it has helped me to gain clarity when i felt conflicted.
In some ways, especially when i am deactivated, it feels that the "easiest " option would be to give up completely. However, i also realize that that is my "go-to" reflex that limits my capacity to grow as an individual and overcome my own internal obstacles to union.
it may sound like i am encouraging you to work it out with him, but i really am not. what i mean to do is encourage to you see this from a broad perspective, and identifying areas where you might grow by trying something new in terms of relating.
Every relationship and individual is unique in terms of the opportunities and need for growth, healing, and expansion.
it's a very personal thing.
For instance, i have recognized that i can't have clarity in my relationship if i find i am not being 100% honest, genuine, forthcoming, and vulnerable.
isolated and alone is my default. thoughts that send me there ought to be questioned.
i get conflicted when i am avoiding taking steps within myself toward openness and availability.
i don't know if i'm making good sense, i know what i mean but am not sure i am expressing it well.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 6, 2018 15:57:10 GMT
Also, I am not sure that reconciliation is impossible. At this time, I do not want it, but it gets harder and harder to resist when I know that he wants to. I don't know if this makes any sense. I'm trying to sift through it all still. Ultimately, this may be part of why he can't give up hope. If it's on your mind at all, your actions/words/body language probably aren't aligned on a clear message, and that makes him think he can influence this. I don't know your story or why you ended it. You not wanting to be with him is more than enough reason, but is there anything that's really a deal breaker? Not asking you to convince you to rethink it... asking because I think one of the nicer and more effective ways to dissuade an AP is to present a very solid reason the relationship won't work that isn't their fault but also isn't just "feelings." The reason for this is that, the AP spends a lot of time thinking they did something wrong and they're not being perfect enough for you, so if anything is in their control to improve, then if they just do it right your feelings will have to change! Also, have you happened to tell him he's AP? He may get angry to hear it first (ie interpreted as criticism), but if he's told you he's willing to go to therapy with YOU, maybe after he thinks about it and is in a bad place on his own, he'll be willing to also go to therapy by himself for himself. So taking all that into consideration, I do think you'll need to go no contact for a while, probably several months. I'd work some of the above into it because I think it would be kind to do so and shove him "off the hook" so to speak, but you're better off telling him the no contact is for you because there's a better chance he'll stick to it and not be resentful that you've made another decision he didn't want for him. When I've done this, I've then blocked social media and texting, but did not block email or phone calls. There was a way to get through in case of emergency but we couldn't track each other or see when we were active on a platform. And maybe it is just part of the AP/DA dance, but I think it's kind of you to be considering his feelings and deciding how you can do what's right for you in the least painful way for him. But you still need to get clear with yourself on what you want to do, prioritize it above all else, and then stick with it. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 15:58:49 GMT
juniper, thank you very much. Yes, he has some very good qualities. He is always there for me and is generally very kind and caring. I say generally though because he has low self esteem and lashes out seemingly out of the blue. In the past, I would just walk away without a second thought. Now, being more aware, I think has made me more conflicted. I am aware of my tendency to just walk away and I try to really think about it completely before doing so. Being aware is a blessing and a curse. Now I second guess my actions much more. Am I walking away because it's a toxic relationship or am I walking away because it's what I do? What else do I need to think about, look at differently? Yes, I have very good reasons to end this relationship, but should I give it another chance, because it's a step away from my old self? This is the question that goes through my head. Nevertheless, I would like to do what is best for him in this case.
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Post by kristyrose on Sept 6, 2018 16:04:26 GMT
Hi all! I've been away from this forum for several months dealing with my break up and life in general. I've been having some issues with the breakup with my ex AP and thought it would be nice to get some input from people here. Many of you know my story, but basically I am DA and I was in a long relationship with someone I thought was secure, but over time, realized he's more AP. We broke up several months ago and since then he has contacted me several times to reconcile. I have remained in contact with him, but have not wanted to reconcile. I have tried being friendly and responding to his texts and emails, but firmly saying I am final in my decision. (ok, there have been some hookups since the break up, so that was very bad on my part). After some time though, I started thinking it was more detrimental to him to remain in contact, when I thought I was being nice by responding and remaining friendly. Recently, I have pulled way back and told him I was going to be doing that. He said it wasn't a good idea and he wanted to remain in my life as either bf or friend. I still respond if he contacts me, but I'm short with my answers and don't tell him what's going on with me. Even at that, I wonder if no contact or another way is better. My question is, is it better (from AP perspective) if I leave him alone entirely (no contact) or continue as I have been? I want him to move on, and be happy, but I would feel terrible if I completely ignored him (even if I told him I was going to). Just recently, he asked if I would go to couple's therapy with him. I said I would go if he wanted me to, but that I was happy the way things are (broken up). In the beginning I thought I was helping him by responding, but it doesn't seem to be the case. He doesn't want to move on. Thoughts? I also admit that I am part of the problem. I don't really want to cut him out entirely as he was a huge part of my life and that is hard to let go of even if I I don't want to remain partners. Mary! It's so good to "see"you again. I too have wondered how you have been and I'm so sorry to hear about your break-up. Welcome back and sending you a great big hug. I'm still locked in the dance with my ex, so not much to update you on we are carrying on as we did last year. In terms of your situation, I agree with Tnr9, as much as it hurts and I know you are hurting, letting him know you need to go NC for some time and let things settle is the absolute best for you both. When I went NC with my ex, I started to feel better and less hurt over time. Unfortunately, my ex suffered quite a bit while I was quiet, so I do worry that it may feel very painful for you and hard to not want to reach out. But, being AP working towards secure, I know that any little sign from my ex was all I needed to believe that we could one day be together again. Even agreeing to couples therapy with very good intent, will only lead your ex to believe there is a chance. I would suggest setting a timeline together for NC with a check in say in 30-60 days, that way your ex doesn't go into AP overdrive thinking he will never hear from you again, and you can have the space to really think about your own feelings and needs and if perhaps therapy IS a good idea for reconciliation down the road. You have always been very considerate of his feelings and also aware of your own, I think at this time separating to get back in touch with yourself is vital. |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 6, 2018 16:05:44 GMT
Yes, I have very good reasons to end this relationship, but should I give it another chance, because it's a step away from my old self? This is the question that goes through my head. For what it's worth, my ex did this to me. While his reasons for ending things are all deactivation (we've talked extensively about his feelings, and he doesn't understand them and rationally thinks I'm perfect for him), he hasn't even started to confront his FA. I didn't realize that's what was going on this whole time, but he thinks he was really trying to do the right thing by asking me to reconcile and "waiting it out" to see if he could maybe force his dysfunctional feelings to change? I wish he didn't. It was unnecessarily painful and repetitive to before, and had I understood what was going on I'd not have agreed to try again until he had started talking to a professional and was working on healing / getting more secure. I don't know where you are in your own process, but if you're DA and not far along your healing track, focus on yourself by yourself and don't rope him back into it. Especially if you have solid non-attachment reasons anyway! It hasn't been easy for me that I got pulled back into things with him, which was equally my doing. But because I'm earned secure, I can deal with it without falling apart. I think if I was still entrenched AP and unfamiliar with attachment theory, it would have been much worse and possibly destroyed the friendship long-term. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 16:33:59 GMT
kristyrose , so good to see you too! Well, I do hope things are a little better for you this year . I think that is a very good idea about giving a timeline. I did try that once but we both broke it. Like I said, I can't help responding. It feels bad to me to ignore someone I care about. I said 6 months and perhaps that was too long. Maybe I will try for 30 days.
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Post by alexandra on Sept 6, 2018 16:35:53 GMT
@mary, that all makes sense. Then I stick by a lengthy period of no contact for the same reasons reconciling recently was a bad idea for me in the second message I posted. If you try to work things out now when he's not ready to go deep enough to address the core issues, you're going to hit the same problems over and over. You can only reconcile productively if he's done his work, too. I speak from insecure attachment experience, even if I was on the AP side not the avoidant side!! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 16:42:06 GMT
@mary , that all makes sense. Then I stick by a lengthy period of no contact for the same reasons reconciling recently was a bad idea for me in the second message I posted. If you try to work things out now when he's not ready to go deep enough to address the core issues, you're going to hit the same problems over and over. You can only reconcile productively if he's done his work, too. I speak from insecure attachment experience, even if I was on the AP side not the avoidant side!! Logically, I know this is completely correct. I think we all have that nagging feeling sometimes that things will be different if we just try again . |
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Post by kristyrose on Sept 6, 2018 16:48:13 GMT
kristyrose , so good to see you too! Well, I do hope things are a little better for you this year . I think that is a very good idea about giving a timeline. I did try that once but we both broke it. Like I said, I can't help responding. It feels bad to me to ignore someone I care about. I said 6 months and perhaps that was too long. Maybe I will try for 30 days. I think if you try it in smaller increments knowing its not forever, this will help. His behavior, making a racist joke about you and getting pissed that you went home to change sounds very irrational and not particularly kind. As someone on the AP side, I would never get angry at my ex if he needed to break off for some time while we were together. I don't like the sound of that for you, so I do think some time apart is good. He should consider his actions and how they impact you- you seem to be the one doing all of the work in terms of identifying your attachment style and trying work with it and his. He should go to therapy alone and perhaps come back to you when he is ready and if you are ready. You can even schedule a check-in date and time every 30 days just to talk maybe over the phone, not in person, and this will keep you both connected, but with enough space to work on yourselves. You have done a tremendous amount of brave work, so really its just a matter of getting back in touch with yourself and let him take a hard look at how he shows up in the relationship. You are not ignoring him, you are giving yourself and him the space to do some work. It's WAY kinder than placating him or inadvertently giving him false hope right now, which I know is not your intent. |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 6, 2018 16:51:16 GMT
@mary, it's an easy trap to fall into when you really care about someone. I asked my ex to go to therapy before we reconciled. He said yes at first then changed his mind, and I let it slide because he was making other changes and who am I to know what a better process is for him.
But his changes are superficial and he's not ready to face his real issues at all. I don't know the best process for him, but having earned secure, I do know what it looks like when you're ready to seriously make changes. Even if therapy isn't part of that (it wasn't for me), he's not there. And I knew that, but I thought (hoped?) 70% ready would be enough.
Listen to your gut about where he's at. It doesn't sound to me like you need to be second guessing yourself right now or anytime soon. Maybe you'll need to learn the lesson through direct experience, and that's okay too, but it sounds like your growth will be better served by a break at this time and being surrounded by people who are closer to where you are in your journey progress (he's not even up to the acknowledgement stage). If he's going to catch up, he's going to do it on his own anyway. Until then, even if it happens, focus on you and what you need now.
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Post by epicgum on Sept 6, 2018 17:44:36 GMT
I think being short and curt with your answers is possibly the worst possible thing to do. It is giving him a little bit of the drug that he craves and then a rejection at the same time. I'd imagine that is incredibly damaging for him.
That isn't being a real friend to him either, he (and you) would expect a real friend to be able to talk and provide emotional support.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 17:54:11 GMT
alexandra: I don't know your story or why you ended it. You not wanting to be with him is more than enough reason, but is there anything that's really a deal breaker? Not asking you to convince you to rethink it... asking because I think one of the nicer and more effective ways to dissuade an AP is to present a very solid reason the relationship won't work that isn't their fault but also isn't just "feelings." The reason for this is that, the AP spends a lot of time thinking they did something wrong and they're not being perfect enough for you, so if anything is in their control to improve, then if they just do it right your feelings will have to change!
I think this is exactly what is at work right now with him. I ended it because he lashes out when he doesn't get my attention. In general, I could handle it to a point, but there was one situation that "broke the camels back". He made a racist "joke" about me to his friend and after much thought, I know now it was part of his lashing out. I found out later, he was upset with me because I got my period and had to go home for 40 minutes to change. It was the eye opener situation to what was so confusing to me before. He knows he was wrong and thinks that he can fix it. I don't think it can be fixed because he isn't willing to see the real reasons of why he acts the way he does. Also, have you happened to tell him he's AP? He may get angry to hear it first (ie interpreted as criticism), but if he's told you he's willing to go to therapy with YOU, maybe after he thinks about it and is in a bad place on his own, he'll be willing to also go to therapy by himself for himself.I have asked him what he thinks about his self esteem and his attachment type. He insists that he has very high self esteem and and secure attachment. I told him I don't think that someone who constantly puts others down has high self esteem. He says they are "just jokes" and don't mean anything. I think he does want to change, but don't think that he's ready to really look at himself. He thinks he can change the outside (curb what he says) and everything will be fixed.  i'd have to agree with you that you have very good reasons to end it. i would say that racist jokes and anger over your period can be labeled this way or that, but my label would be "disgusting". So, people can behave in disgusting ways and not be totally disgusting, sure. But to behave that way and insist that one is secure with high self esteem makes me inclined to think there is more disgusting behavior where that came from, and likely worse if you accept such a low bar from him for self-examination and bandaid remedies. Needing to belittle you over your race and having a little fit about your natural cycle is very demeaning. if he lashes out like this when he gets insecure, i'd say, it would be growth and self-care to cut him off. Conflict between my partner and i doesn't lead to verbal abuse or anything demeaning or abusive, or disrespectful. Stuff like that makes a relationship emotionally damaging and dangerous. It muddies the water. In my opinion, if he was sincere about doing what is right for you, at the level that you are considering his well-being, he would be attending some heavy duty counseling on his own and talking about what he needs to do better instead of asking you to couples counseling. That implies that you are part of his verbal abuse problem. you're not. that's all him. he may be unhappy about this or that in the relationship but that behavior crosses a healthy boundary, it's not just a misunderstanding or a differing need. it's abusive! |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 6, 2018 18:31:36 GMT
There is no reason to go to couples therapy with him if you're not both actively trying to reconcile and fully committed to it. You have your own therapist, and his problems are independent of you. He needs to be willing to see and address them without you before it matters if you're there or not. As it stands, I agree that it's not healthy for you to be there in such an intimate capacity with him right now. Those boundaries sound messy.
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. I have been really torn up over the break up and have been hibernating, licking my wounds in private so to speak. 
