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Post by tnr9 on Oct 22, 2018 10:19:58 GMT
Nine months later, she’s in a good, fulfilling relationship, and I’m still somewhat of a mess. And I created the problem, so apart from here, I have to shut up about it. Yep. The best (!) parts of both. Hey mrob...I wonder if someone tells you that you have owned your responsibility for your role in the relationship enough and now you can let the self blame go...if that would allow you permission to let your comment that you created the problem go? And if she was able to move forward and have a stable relationship...then maybe the negative influence that you associate back to yourself is not as much as you think? Just trying to see if there is anopportunity to change the tape you have going on just a tad. |
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Post by mrob on Oct 22, 2018 12:43:58 GMT
Thanks folks. I don’t so much blame myself. In fact, most of the time I manage to look on the bright side, see that it wasn’t possible for mutual fulfilment and wish her all the best while getting on with my life. Sometimes, though, it just comes out like the other day. Contact throws me more than I think.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 22, 2018 22:18:02 GMT
Nine months later, she’s in a good, fulfilling relationship, and I’m still somewhat of a mess. And I created the problem, so apart from here, I have to shut up about it. Yep. The best (!) parts of both. Awe, I completely feel for you!! You never know when something wonderful is around the corner. ((Hugs)) 💗 |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 22, 2018 22:35:38 GMT
As camper mentioned ask yourself why you need to keep communicating with your ex, exes are exes for a reason. Im a secure with a bit of DA myself and I dont contact my exes, never have and never will unless there is a reason like owed money or things to return. Im friendly with most of my exes but its if we run into each other friendly. We certainly dont chat and check on each other. My exes dont reach out to chat or check on me either, none of them have after that first few weeks of break up.(I find that normal right after a break up) My relationships have been with other secures. Im going through my own I have to let go of a DA. We never even made it to BF/GF status. Just a year if his in/outs. Still grappling why I bothered for so long! haha. I swear its as dumb as wanting what I cant have! LOL I had my last straw with him dismissing me and I said my piece to him. Told him in my say my piece text not to contact again unless he is willing to put the work in on his behavior. Now I am no contact and I will stay that way. He reaches out sure Id reply but I wont reach out myself. I have no reason to contact him except for my own 'selfish reasons' of will he 'talk to me' now? Thats validate me behavior and there is no point in that. Hes been deleted from my phone. Not like I dont want to know how he is doing because I care a lot about him and he probably would respond if I reached out... but again no point, I have to let it go and leave it to the universe. If we were meant to be we will.
Maybe just let go and release it. Do you and go out and live your best life. 
To add, I watch tarot readings in the morning with my tea and the reading I watched today was like a personal reading! I wish I could send it to him, its so our story! LOL A whole bit in the reading that would be for him as a cross-watcher. Its exactly what I feel, would offer him and my intentions. It exactly explains his DA behaviors as well... So accurate its creepy!
Hey there, thanks for responding. I know it’s hard to imagine keeping in contact from an avoidant’s point of view and a lot of secure people‘s point of views, but I was really believing in our connection and I thought we could get back together. We were just beginning to learn each other and I thought our problems could be worked through. I underestimated the state of his resistance and his wounds and after our break my eyes were finally opened to my fears, insecurities and trauma buried deep down inside of me. We’re both clearly hurting. He was so in love until he wasnt- our small conflicts were anything but small to him and activated his defenses. For good, it seems. It’s already been 11 months. He sounds like you in one regard - he told me when we were dating that aftee a break he would remove the ex’s number from his cell so not only would he not reach out but if they reached out he would say “who is this?” He wanted to text this so they would have the point that he didn’t even remember them anymore. (Not that you do that, but similar in regards to letting go.) I remember as he told me how he operates with his exes feeling very vulnerable- as far as, if it happened to them, it could happen to me. He did treat me differently post break in that he responded to me and wanted to see me (but only casually) about 6 weeks after our break, as I pursued him to reconnect. 11 months later and we’re no closer to getting back together. I’ve been calmer, we’ve been conflict free- besides his reacting to pressure from me, or my reacting to his distancing, but he’s still not willing or able. I really wanted to be the one to prove to him that not everyone walks out and relationships can last- as he believed they didn’t. Even now, begin to feel like strangers to each other saddens me and causes me some anxiety, but more sadness than anything. I recognize it’s so hard to not be triggered by him, in light of all of this- I’ve decided to focus on the relationship between myself and me and put myself and my healing first. I’m no longer trying to strategize or figure out how my behaviors affect him. I’m only focusing on what’s best for me. Took a long time for me to come around to that- hard for me to accept and let go, but I know that’s the best thing to do. Thanks for your comment- praying everything works out for the best for you 💗 |
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Post by epicgum on Oct 22, 2018 22:47:46 GMT
Nine months later, she’s in a good, fulfilling relationship, and I’m still somewhat of a mess. And I created the problem, so apart from here, I have to shut up about it. Yep. The best (!) parts of both. Awe, I completely feel for you!! You never know when something wonderful is around the corner. ((Hugs)) 💗 Thanks for the kind words for a fellow FA @faithlovehope In terms of feeling the pain and letting go, I think FAs feel some of the pain like APs because they are high in preoccupied/separated anxiety, but this is neutralized somewhat by the conflicting avoidant anxiety which makes then scared if they get too close or too committed. So while in a relationship they are caught in a bind unable to fully commit and unable to leave as well because of conflicting anxieties. This is where FAs are during the breakup. It's only after the breakup has completed and the other person has moved on when the "threat' of commitment has disappeared that the avoidant anxiety disappears and they can really feel "AP" separation anxiety. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 22:57:59 GMT
Awe, I completely feel for you!! You never know when something wonderful is around the corner. ((Hugs)) 💗 Thanks for the kind words for a fellow FA @faithlovehope In terms of feeling the pain and letting go, I think FAs feel some of the pain like APs because they are high in preoccupied/separated anxiety, but this is neutralized somewhat by the conflicting avoidant anxiety which makes then scared if they get too close or too committed. So while in a relationship they are caught in a bind unable to fully commit and unable to leave as well because of conflicting anxieties. This is where FAs are during the breakup. It's only after the breakup has completed and the other person has moved on when the "threat' of commitment has disappeared that the avoidant anxiety disappears and they can really feel "AP" separation anxiety. for the dismissive perspective... i don't know if all DA's experience it like this, but when i make a final break from a relationship, it's because the relationship was obstructed enough and ultimately painful enough for me to do most of my suffering pre-breakup. Once the balance tips for me, even if i feel feelings of love or attachment for the person themselves, my attachment is broken. it's about trust , for me. there comes a point when my trust is broken to the point of being able and willing to let go, knowing that i could not sincerely proceed, that i have hit a dead end internally and there is no going back. at that point the sadness is palpable but very manageable in light of what i see as a failed relationship, a dead horse, a regrettable but neceaaary and ultimately liberating and self-respecting end. and this point, i don't reach out, i don't revisit the relationship mentally much. it's not so much avoidance for me as it is acceptance of imposed limitations that i cannot overcome in the dynamic. just adding one DA perspective on endings. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 22, 2018 22:58:17 GMT
Awe, I completely feel for you!! You never know when something wonderful is around the corner. ((Hugs)) 💗 Thanks for the kind words for a fellow FA @faithlovehope In terms of feeling the pain and letting go, I think FAs feel some of the pain like APs because they are high in preoccupied/separated anxiety, but this is neutralized somewhat by the conflicting avoidant anxiety which makes then scared if they get too close or too committed. So while in a relationship they are caught in a bind unable to fully commit and unable to leave as well because of conflicting anxieties. This is where FAs are during the breakup. It's only after the breakup has completed and the other person has moved on when the "threat' of commitment has disappeared that the avoidant anxiety disappears and they can really feel "AP" separation anxiety. Hey, Epic 👍 This is all so eye opening to me- learning about myself as well as gaining a better understanding of others. It sucks to be insecure but at least we’re becoming self-aware- more knowledgeable and hopefully understanding of ourselves and others. Truly a journey- thanks so much for sharing your insight, Epic. It helps me understand and I can certainly relate to the fearful/anxious aspects 💗 |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 22, 2018 23:12:52 GMT
Thanks for the kind words for a fellow FA @faithlovehope In terms of feeling the pain and letting go, I think FAs feel some of the pain like APs because they are high in preoccupied/separated anxiety, but this is neutralized somewhat by the conflicting avoidant anxiety which makes then scared if they get too close or too committed. So while in a relationship they are caught in a bind unable to fully commit and unable to leave as well because of conflicting anxieties. This is where FAs are during the breakup. It's only after the breakup has completed and the other person has moved on when the "threat' of commitment has disappeared that the avoidant anxiety disappears and they can really feel "AP" separation anxiety. for the dismissive perspective... i don't know if all DA's experience it like this, but when i make a final break from a relationship, it's because the relationship was obstructed enough and ultimately painful enough for me to do most of my suffering pre-breakup. Once the balance tips for me, even if i feel feelings of love or attachment for the person themselves, my attachment is broken. it's about trust , for me. there comes a point when my trust is broken to the point of being able and willing to let go, knowing that i could not sincerely proceed, that i have hit a dead end internally and there is no going back. at that point the sadness is palpable but very manageable in light of what i see as a failed relationship, a dead horse, a regrettable but neceaaary and ultimately liberating and self-respecting end. and this point, i don't reach out, i don't revisit the relationship mentally much. it's not so much avoidance for me as it is acceptance of imposed limitations that i cannot overcome in the dynamic. just adding one DA perspective on endings. Hey there, Juniper I appreciate your insight. My ex didn’t say a lot but when he did, he spoke of trust. Seemed to be his main theme during our relationship and after our break. He said a couple months ago that he didn’t mean to be so tough but he has a very hard time trusting. He said, “I’m not like most people. I’m not normal.” I was so taken back by his tender and honest revelation that I didn’t know what to say in response. I badly wanted to earn his trust but I feel it’s unobtainable- that I was written off weeks before our break....kind of like what you were saying, I think. It’s typical for him not to revisit anything in his life- not even seemingly minor things. For example, his dog got sick one time from something she ate in his back yard and he’s walked her on a leash ever since- that was 5 years ago. Seems to be no “do overs” with him. I feel he also sees not revisiting relationships as logical- he always told me he leads with logic. Never loses control. (In contrast, u can only imagine my “wonderful” self-control as an AP...ugh) I’ve been trying to switch my focus to me and my well-being and not be concerned about how it affects him- not bc I don’t care, I care deeply, but bc it’s counterproductive. Trying to be more logical myself. Thanks so much for your perspective, Juniper. Hope you’re well 💗 |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 23:35:11 GMT
for the dismissive perspective... i don't know if all DA's experience it like this, but when i make a final break from a relationship, it's because the relationship was obstructed enough and ultimately painful enough for me to do most of my suffering pre-breakup. Once the balance tips for me, even if i feel feelings of love or attachment for the person themselves, my attachment is broken. it's about trust , for me. there comes a point when my trust is broken to the point of being able and willing to let go, knowing that i could not sincerely proceed, that i have hit a dead end internally and there is no going back. at that point the sadness is palpable but very manageable in light of what i see as a failed relationship, a dead horse, a regrettable but neceaaary and ultimately liberating and self-respecting end. and this point, i don't reach out, i don't revisit the relationship mentally much. it's not so much avoidance for me as it is acceptance of imposed limitations that i cannot overcome in the dynamic. just adding one DA perspective on endings. Hey there, Juniper I appreciate your insight. My ex didn’t say a lot but when he did, he spoke of trust. Seemed to be his main theme during our relationship and after our break. He said a couple months ago that he didn’t mean to be so tough but he has a very hard time trusting. He said, “I’m not like most people. I’m not normal.” I was so taken back by his tender and honest revelation that I didn’t know what to say in response. I badly wanted to earn his trust but I feel it’s unobtainable- that I was written off weeks before our break....kind of like what you were saying, I think. It’s typical for him not to revisit anything in his life- not even seemingly minor things. For example, his dog got sick one time from something she ate in his back yard and he’s walked her on a leash ever since- that was 5 years ago. Seems to be no “do overs” with him. I feel he also sees not revisiting relationships as logical- he always told me he leads with logic. Never loses control. (In contrast, u can only imagine my “wonderful” self-control as an AP...ugh) I’ve been trying to switch my focus to me and my well-being and not be concerned about how it affects him- not bc I don’t care, I care deeply, but bc it’s counterproductive. Trying to be more logical myself. Thanks so much for your perspective, Juniper. Hope you’re well 💗 thank you for your kind words, and i am healing, but still in grief. her service is this week and i can't hardly stand the thought of entering her home without her in it. i want to go but it's like walking off a cliff when i think of it. as to the moving on, it's not a complete absence of feeling, it's a weighing of potentials, and choosing the safest route for me. i don't expect others to have my back, but when i trust them because they say they do, and then they betray that trust, i have to take my well being into consideration and just do the hard thing. sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's hard. but i look to myself for the remedy and i'm certain that's because that's the conditioning i received. i take my responsibility for my well being very seriously. i really hold myself responsible for whether i make it or don't, whether i am ok or not okay, whether i am being true to myself or not being true to myself, whether i can be a good partner to someone, or can't be a good partner. i just have to do what is manageable for a peaceful life. sometimes it takes me a long time to figure it out. internal conflicts are real obstacles for DA also. we just approach them from a different perspective, with different priorities. different motivations, different needs. it's very important to put your well being first when in a painful relationship. good things don't hurt real bad. if something is consistently triggering without remedy, or causes emotional pain consistently, it's a good sign that we aren't fully aware of, and validating, and acting to fulfill our needs and responsibilities to ourselves- we're looking out for someone else to our own detriment. it happens to all the styles, i believe. it takes whatever it takes to prioritize your own healing and heart and mind- but getting there is a landmark moment. the wounds we have is because we didn't occupy the place of priority that we needed to in our families of origin, with our caregivers. Now we are offered an opportunity to learn to care for ourselves and choose a new circle of close associations that can mirror our self love, self respect, and healthy autonomy. we can become interdependent with people who can reciprocate. that's the goal of healing and it starts with our relationships with ourselves. |
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Post by camper78 on Oct 23, 2018 1:55:05 GMT
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 23, 2018 2:05:05 GMT
Hey there, Juniper I appreciate your insight. My ex didn’t say a lot but when he did, he spoke of trust. Seemed to be his main theme during our relationship and after our break. He said a couple months ago that he didn’t mean to be so tough but he has a very hard time trusting. He said, “I’m not like most people. I’m not normal.” I was so taken back by his tender and honest revelation that I didn’t know what to say in response. I badly wanted to earn his trust but I feel it’s unobtainable- that I was written off weeks before our break....kind of like what you were saying, I think. It’s typical for him not to revisit anything in his life- not even seemingly minor things. For example, his dog got sick one time from something she ate in his back yard and he’s walked her on a leash ever since- that was 5 years ago. Seems to be no “do overs” with him. I feel he also sees not revisiting relationships as logical- he always told me he leads with logic. Never loses control. (In contrast, u can only imagine my “wonderful” self-control as an AP...ugh) I’ve been trying to switch my focus to me and my well-being and not be concerned about how it affects him- not bc I don’t care, I care deeply, but bc it’s counterproductive. Trying to be more logical myself. Thanks so much for your perspective, Juniper. Hope you’re well 💗 thank you for your kind words, and i am healing, but still in grief. her service is this week and i can't hardly stand the thought of entering her home without her in it. i want to go but it's like walking off a cliff when i think of it. as to the moving on, it's not a complete absence of feeling, it's a weighing of potentials, and choosing the safest route for me. i don't expect others to have my back, but when i trust them because they say they do, and then they betray that trust, i have to take my well being into consideration and just do the hard thing. sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's hard. but i look to myself for the remedy and i'm certain that's because that's the conditioning i received. i take my responsibility for my well being very seriously. i really hold myself responsible for whether i make it or don't, whether i am ok or not okay, whether i am being true to myself or not being true to myself, whether i can be a good partner to someone, or can't be a good partner. i just have to do what is manageable for a peaceful life. sometimes it takes me a long time to figure it out. internal conflicts are real obstacles for DA also. we just approach them from a different perspective, with different priorities. different motivations, different needs. it's very important to put your well being first when in a painful relationship. good things don't hurt real bad. if something is consistently triggering without remedy, or causes emotional pain consistently, it's a good sign that we aren't fully aware of, and validating, and acting to fulfill our needs and responsibilities to ourselves- we're looking out for someone else to our own detriment. it happens to all the styles, i believe. it takes whatever it takes to prioritize your own healing and heart and mind- but getting there is a landmark moment. the wounds we have is because we didn't occupy the place of priority that we needed to in our families of origin, with our caregivers. Now we are offered an opportunity to learn to care for ourselves and choose a new circle of close associations that can mirror our self love, self respect, and healthy autonomy. we can become interdependent with people who can reciprocate. that's the goal of healing and it starts with our relationships with ourselves. Juniper 💐Beautifully stated. I love your self-awareness and ability to articulate it. You hit some deep feeling parts of me when I read your comments. Being fiercely independent and relying on yourself to regulate and problem solve is something I lack. The DA’s strengths are the AP’s weaknesses. I think the DA/AP dynamic could be a beautiful example for two partners to move toward more secure behaviors- if they are willing to work together and be sensitive and understanding to each other’s needs and defenses. At 43 years old, I wasn’t self-aware of my AP ways until after this break. Then I realized how I would overwhelm by reaching out, seeking comfort, wanting a rescuer- how my partner becomes the air I breathe at the sake of my own self-care and my own routines. It puts an incredible amount of pressure, I realize now, on my partner to be my world. Abandonment is my greatest fear and the driving force behind all my anxious and needy behavior. The fear is so powerful that it makes any pulling away a threat to me. My internal dialogue would set me on a downward spiral ruminating thoughts of “he doesn’t care about me. I’m not a priority. He’s leaving.” And close as close can be wouldn’t be close enough for me. I become my own self-fulfilling prophecy as my fears of abandonment bring about my abandonment. Yes, something good shouldn’t hurt so bad. I think it must be that unloved little girl inside of me that still seeks love and assurance. Losing love is unbearable. A DA may carefully weigh options to make rational, tough decisions, but logic is thrown out the window as I lead with my heart. If I care enough, convince enough or earn love enough- then it can work out. Never give up, never give in. Always trying, earning, leaning in. This last relationship brought to light so many issues and insecurities I never knew I had...sobering to discover. These behaviors are so deeply engrained. Making ourselves the priority- the priority we didn’t receive from our caregivers is that awakening moment. This struck a chord within me. I feel like I need to reparent myself and begin to gain independence and stand alone feeling safe and loved for the first time in my life- the way I never learned in my childhood or teenage years. I guess patience with ourselves is key on this journey. Thanks so much for all your heart felt insight...I’m very sorry for the loss of your dear friend and in time, when you’re feeling more ready, I hope you can go to your loved one’s house- if only briefly. I hope you take comfort in the knowledge that you were a great source of light and love for your friend in a dark and painful time. It sounds like you’re making great progress on your journey. I’ll be thinking of you this week...hugs 💗 |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 2:06:29 GMT
thank you so much camper 🌸 |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 2:15:23 GMT
thank you also for your kind words faithopelove . i empathize with the pain of your inner child, my little Juniper was devastated by neglect and abuse. i've done a lot of discovery and work to heal her up and reparent her, and allow myself to bond and learn to trust and be truly available to my emotions, and to reach out for help. i just don't reach out to an unreliable partner once i hurt enough by doing so, i remember how to survive. so it's healthy, now- a healthy twist on a survival mechanism. this same survival mechanism had me cut off from human love and support that i have desperately needed during times of loss and pain and trauma. hell, even to simply be loved and accepted when i am a-ok is something i eventually longed for but didn't know how to actualize, because of my avoidant conditioning. so it's deep, very sad pain for all of us, we just developed different ways of coping/. the fear of abandonment for a dismissive is unconscious. the fear of engulfment /control is conscious. our need for intimacy and love is unconscious. our need for independence and autonomy is conscious. but each of those things is real and touchable and painful, and unstable relationships trigger it all. even stable relationships trigger it. it's such a deep process but healing is possible. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 24, 2018 2:18:36 GMT
I agree with Boomerang, but I know it's easy for people to say that the healthiest thing is to drop the hope and accept reality-- and incredibly difficult for someone posting on an AP forum to actually do.....
I've wasted a LOT of my life on hope, and maybe that's just the journey some people have to take, some long painful circuitous journey towards acceptance of reality, but my advice would be to try to make that journey be on the shortest possible side. If you're waiting for someone to decide they want to be in your life, then ultimately you're short-changing yourself. You can invite him in, but don't stand around waiting.
Yes, very tough for the AP. I agree that the journey to acceptance is a long one, and I’d like to not drag anything negative out any longer than necessary. Some days are easier than others. Thx for your response 💗 |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 24, 2018 2:24:20 GMT
FHL, your story is similar to mine, minus the depression in my former guy: Magic, his breaking it off once it got emotionally intense, him coming back briefly--and then a long period of measured contact (in my case, mostly by text initiated by me). In that latter period, I think I was where you are now. I also tried to regulate myself, to give him space, to not make demands, to not raise issues as I had in the past for fear of shutting him down--all to the end goal of making him feel safe to start again with me. As he did engage with me when I reached out, I felt that was progress, but actually, in my case--it wasn't. It felt like it was at the time, that engagement meant we were on a slow path to getting back together, but...it really wasn't. Not sure why he engaged, probably because he likes me, which he does, and saw no reason to cut me off. What happened in the end was after 5 months of this, I reached a point where I couddn't handle the ambiguity anymore and finally revealed my feelings, at great cost to myself as I made myself extremely vulnerable, and then heard him say what I had been so afraid of. I wish in retrospect I had not tried to adjust to what I thought he needed to start again, but had simply asked and heard his answer much earlier. I was too afraid. However, it would have spared me a lot of anxiety and uncertainty. Because in the end--and this is the key point--the answer was the same from him. I am sharing this because I would hate for you to go through this same thing. if your situation is like mine, you will hope and see small signs, but nothing will fundamentally change bringing up anxiety, fear, sadness, and whole tangle of emotions. Then when you cannot stand it, you WILL reach a point where you want clarity. Where you will NEED to pin him down. And the odds are that it will be a very painful experience. Tactics do not change anything. They just don't. Truly, truly. They do not. If I were giving advice to the me of several months ago, I would say, "don't adjust, don't wait for him to decide he wants you/tell you he is done. Rather, tell him that you are done as the current way of relating is not what you want." I would also say to my past self, "Accept what he is showing you for what it is--not a path to hope, but his truth of where he is and what he wants." I know that it is terribly hard to do that when it is so much not what you want, when you want to have back what you had and just want to do all you can to get back there. In my own case, though, I wish I had just accepted that he was not moving toward me for reasons of his own and that it was nothing I could influence. The trap of coming to understand attachment wounds is that you think that you can. But really, you cannot. Again, speaking for myself, I wish I had just believed what he was showing me and taken care of myself accordingly. Nothing I did ...changed anything. I totally empathize with where you are, and hope you know I write from that place... Boomerang- I appreciate your response and advice. I just recently saw your response 💗 You get it. We sound very similar and I will read your post often as some days I feel strong and some days I forget why I’m not reaching out to him. The urge is at times overwhelming to reconnect and hear, in some way, we’re ok, but I know that’s my anxious self talking. And I know how he told me he felt about not being capable. Thank you again for your kind and thoughtful words. 💐 |
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