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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 12:59:35 GMT
He's DA. It seems he's aware that his behavior isn't right at times, he thinks he can't control it and he fears people will reject him based of that (he mentioned something along the lines many times even before we were together, he won't ever show it) so he reacts very strongly to criticism and as if every disagreement was the end-with him having the upper-hand. But it could also be a legitimate reason, it's tiring, I contribute to it too. It's also true. My needs have to be met, I know it now. With the difference I think it can be done, I need so little. I'm not secure so I have to fight "only if" mindset. I don't want to chase anymore but I know it was my fault, I know he's changing too and "only if" he wasn't running away from conflict and understood we are just flawed humans with emotions, nothing is black or white. I just want to know "is it it?", it's not yet for me. He sounds very similar to my ex DA that I still see. He couldn’t handle criticism- even if I was just joking around with him, for example, not making his bed or something that I considered trivial...and every conflict was a reason for him to see us an incompatible. I remember the first time I saw this- I mentioned to him that I would like us to go out on more date nights, he actually started to cry and told me he thought “things were going so well and he knew he shouldn’t have gotten attached to me.” I was stunned. I had no idea he’d react that strongly. It was the first glimpse I got of his insecure side. Our Friday night was ruined. It was also the beginning of myself being afraid to communicate openly with him. I was confused and hurt. I’d give him a couple days of space and then reach out. If he’s like my DA, he won’t be the one to reach out after a conflict where he felt wronged. i'm just going to say, about the criticism part. many of us, all insecure types, endured ruthless criticism when young. i chose mates that were consistently unhappy with me, critical, dissatisfied. that's the injury working. AP are typically chronically dissatisfied. Unhappy with their partner's "inadequacies". not enough this. not enough that. seeking validation, more, more, more. that's the injury working. when it comes to all the "joking" criticism, about "trivial" things, in my relationships, including the one with my toxic partner.... it was WEARING. EXHAUSTING to be continually ribbed about me being me. underlying the banter was a real incompatibility of needs, values, lifestyles. i don't believe necessarily in these situations that the DA is SO SENSITIVE to the smallest slight without believing that the AP or anxious leaning partner isn't overly critical and demanding with bigger things and says a lot of other critical things in jest. that would fit more with the AP/avoidant dance than this narrative about overly sensitive avoidants. let's consider that in the dynamic. perhaps one partner complains way too much and there is a critical speech overload . it could happen with an AP you know. Avoidant are sensitive to criticism and AP are critical. Avoidant are sensitive to criticism- and so are AP. Avoidant are critical to deactivate, also. why talk so much about exes? does it help, is it commiseration, i don't understand it so much.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 13:22:14 GMT
also, as DA i would most be aware of the response to criticism in me that says: "Really? i'm grown. who are you? have you seen a mirror lately? if you're miserable, why are you here?"
and finally, "OMG SHUT IT. "
there isn't a whole lot of patience with complaining in the DA mindset.
it just part of the anxious /avoidant dynamic, this unhappiness.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 13:41:06 GMT
He sounds very similar to my ex DA that I still see. He couldn’t handle criticism- even if I was just joking around with him, for example, not making his bed or something that I considered trivial...and every conflict was a reason for him to see us an incompatible. I remember the first time I saw this- I mentioned to him that I would like us to go out on more date nights, he actually started to cry and told me he thought “things were going so well and he knew he shouldn’t have gotten attached to me.” I was stunned. I had no idea he’d react that strongly. It was the first glimpse I got of his insecure side. Our Friday night was ruined. It was also the beginning of myself being afraid to communicate openly with him. I was confused and hurt. I’d give him a couple days of space and then reach out. If he’s like my DA, he won’t be the one to reach out after a conflict where he felt wronged. i'm just going to say, about the criticism part. many of us, all insecure types, endured ruthless criticism when young. i chose mates that were consistently unhappy with me, critical, dissatisfied. that's the injury working. AP are typically chronically dissatisfied. Unhappy with their partner's "inadequacies". not enough this. not enough that. seeking validation, more, more, more. that's the injury working. when it comes to all the "joking" criticism, about "trivial" things, in my relationships, including the one with my toxic partner.... it was WEARING. EXHAUSTING to be continually ribbed about me being me. underlying the banter was a real incompatibility of needs, values, lifestyles. i don't believe necessarily in these situations that the DA is SO SENSITIVE to the smallest slight without believing that the AP or anxious leaning partner isn't overly critical and demanding with bigger things and says a lot of other critical things in jest.that would fit more with the AP/avoidant dance than this narrative about overly sensitive avoidants. let's consider that in the dynamic. perhaps one partner complains way too much and there is a critical speech overload . it could happen with an AP you know. Avoidant are sensitive to criticism and AP are critical. Avoidant are sensitive to criticism- and so are AP. Avoidant are critical to deactivate, also. why talk so much about exes? does it help, is it commiseration, i don't understand it so much. This is true and but not always. As you mentioned, we had to endure ruthless criticism of our existence when young and it's understandable that someone who knew only this from a very young age perceives everything as criticisms even if it isn't- they never knew anything else, they might not know they don't have to be perfect and that not everything they're doing is wrong. Sometimes it'd beyond the attachment theory. It's true that enough is enough but I'd say it's more due to having a passive aggressive communication style rather than your attachment style. It can be a part of DA/AP dynamic but it's more due to handicapped ability to express one's needs, things you've learnt observing your parents' communication and/or having sick expectations in a relationship, imho. It's something I've seen my DA mother doing all the time. I hate those "jokes" of hers and I pointed out many times how damaging it can be but she thinks it's innocent. The pattern is clear- she won't communicate directly and she's enforcing her needs and wants using criticism.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:02:56 GMT
i mean, AP come here all he time to focus on elements of their partners behavior that are difficult for them. it could be a meme.
inside a relationship with an AP, the emotional neediness feels very much like criticism because the ap is passive aggressive in their protest behavior and often paranoid.
add the little criticisms of every day life on TOP of AP protest behavior, and that is a whole bunch of negativity focused on the partner.
a whole lot.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:30:50 GMT
Might be. I don't have any experience with anxious partners only friends who are very emotionally needy, "woe is me", passive agressive can be manipulative to get validation and throw tantrums when their needs aren't met but they've never criticized me in my face. They do criticize others/partners to others to express anger and we also saw examples of this here too but I assumed a big part of it is preoccupation, that their partner will see the neediness rather than criticism per se. They tend to be people pleasers after all.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:34:16 GMT
Might be. I don't have any experience with anxious partners only friends who are very emotionally needy, "woe is me", passive agressive can be manipulative to get validation and throw tantrums when their needs aren't met but they've never criticized be in my face. They do criticize others to express anger and we also saw examples of this here too but I assumed a big part of it is preoccupation, that their partner will see the neediness rather than criticism per se. They tend to be people pleasers after all. i always have seen criticism in it. because they seem angry. mostly anger and exasperation, and a sense of "i'm not gonna put up with this terrible treatment " while they hold on and complain.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:37:25 GMT
Might be. I don't have any experience with anxious partners only friends who are very emotionally needy, "woe is me", passive agressive can be manipulative to get validation and throw tantrums when their needs aren't met but they've never criticized be in my face. They do criticize others to express anger and we also saw examples of this here too but I assumed a big part of it is preoccupation, that their partner will see the neediness rather than criticism per se. They tend to be people pleasers after all. i always have seen criticism in it. because they seem angry. mostly anger and exasperation, and a sense of "i'm not gonna put up with this terrible treatment " while they hold on and complain. So it might be that for DA anger=criticism, it makes sense why they seem sensitive to others then!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:38:48 GMT
usually i read that AP admit having difficulty not being resentful. in relationship AP feels needy, but they are perceived as angry and demanding. true story.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:46:21 GMT
usually i read that AP admit having difficulty not being resentful. in relationship AP feels needy, but they are perceived as angry and demanding. true story. I don't doubt that. I know my AP friends are prone to that and it's not easy to deal with even if you're secure (I'm rather secure with my friends and I can put up with it, I wouldn't tolerate it in a partner) but if it's true for DAs that they tend to see anger as criticism- you're in fact sensitive to it. Anger doesn't mean criticism at all, it doesn't have to personal or related to a relationship at all. It makes so much sense now. Could it be also why DAs don't like displaying(by others) negative emotions?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:50:28 GMT
i always have seen criticism in it. because they seem angry. mostly anger and exasperation, and a sense of "i'm not gonna put up with this terrible treatment " while they hold on and complain. So it might be that for DA anger=criticism, it makes sense why they seem sensitive to others then! I find this odd. I think most people would say DAs are not sensitive, that we are cold and don't show when we are hurt.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:52:35 GMT
i always have seen criticism in it. because they seem angry. mostly anger and exasperation, and a sense of "i'm not gonna put up with this terrible treatment " while they hold on and complain. So it might be that for DA anger=criticism, it makes sense why they seem sensitive to others then! yes. especially anger coming from an anxious partner. an anxious partner is not skilled in voicing their needs in a constructive way. hence protest behavior. which is often hostile. not to say avoidant are skilled at voicing needs. but protest behavior is more fight or flight, confrontational. avoidance is more passive, flee, freeze. the tendency i have seen in relationship is for anxious to say you do this this you don't that and then the tendency on the forum is to say he/she does this he/she doesn't do that with the focus on the partner, the unhappy , discontent, "it's not enough for me" focus. even boundaries meant to get needs met seem to be negative: i feel bad when you do this. i feel bad when you do that. instead of finding something positive to build on "i love when you do this, thank you! it means so much" it's all problem-focused and the solution is so often: BE BETTER!!! the partner is the "doer" or "not doer" and the anxious is the person with the emotional reaction. the reactor. so, AP anger does actually tend to be critical. an example is, say an anxious feels insecure, not worthy. reaction? My partner is cheating. an accusation or even suspicion of cheating is in fact critical of the partners character and behavior- it's not needy. it's kind of like character assasination. If an anxious feels ignored they will likely say "you're ignoring me" , at least in my experience. until they learn better ways of acknowledging and expressing their needs , anxious tend to sound very critical.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:53:51 GMT
@mary, when i pushed back against criticism i was always accused of being "too sensitive" so weird, actually, i felt pissed and annoyed about someone all up in my business. lol.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:55:23 GMT
usually i read that AP admit having difficulty not being resentful. in relationship AP feels needy, but they are perceived as angry and demanding. true story. I don't doubt that. I know my AP friends are prone to that and it's not easy to deal with even if you're secure (I'm rather secure with my friends and I can put up with it, I wouldn't tolerate it in a partner) but if it's true for DAs that they tend to see anger as criticism- you're in fact sensitive to it. Anger doesn't mean criticism at all, it doesn't have to personal or related to a relationship at all. It makes so much sense now. Could it be also why DAs don't like displaying(by others) negative emotions? not necessarily sensitive. that's an outside perception. my reaction to it is stated above. it's more like "stop nagging."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:57:39 GMT
usually i read that AP admit having difficulty not being resentful. in relationship AP feels needy, but they are perceived as angry and demanding. true story. The AP anger is seen as criticism because the anger is about the DA not meeting the AP (sometimes irrational) need for attention, validation and reassurance. It is a criticism that the DA is not loving enough, caring enough, attentive enough, etc. I have been on the receiving end of this anger too many times and I have told them that I cannot fill their emotional space, that they need to do some of the work themselves. It falls on deaf ears and in the end, it's still my fault that they don't feel whole and loved.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:58:33 GMT
So it might be that for DA anger=criticism, it makes sense why they seem sensitive to others then! I find this odd. I think most people would say DAs are not sensitive, that we are cold and don't show when we are hurt. Coldness doesn't mean you're untouched. " "Really? i'm grown. who are you? have you seen a mirror lately? if you're miserable, why are you here?"" - that kind of reaction to something minor or to constructive criticism would be quite sensitive and defensive.
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