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Post by stayhappy on Jan 13, 2019 17:11:43 GMT
@blacksnow "There are exceptions to this though, e.g. we'd be more obviously avoidant in relationships with APs, depending on how they trigger us." Mine must be heavy FA/DA as Im not AP and I seem to trigger him hard. I swear I trigger him harder than others have.
He goes avoidant fairly quickly but keeps circling back. His circle backs take longer now though. I know hes in an anxious state when he circles back but acts more secure, 'normal' not anxious when he comes back. His anxiety can have nothing do to with more but be a reaction to his feelings of intimacy and closeness that create fear in him. That circling back is a huge indicator that he’s FA. My ex avoidant never circled back. I always have to reach out. He speaks of shutting down and not letting others in. DA have strong walls and boundaries and strong distrust. They don’t admit admit their needs or expect anyone to meet them. Very tough bc their emotions are suppressed. Any high’s and low’s, back and forth would indicate FA’s anxiety and fears. I think the guy I see sometimes is more DA and he does come back. But when he comes back he never think it was over he was just taking some time apart. |
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 13, 2019 17:27:18 GMT
I think the guy I see sometimes is more DA and he does come back. But when he comes back he never think it was over he was just taking some time apart. Sounds FA to me...Does he shut off his emotions and withdraw- truly withdraw not just for a month? Speak of being afraid to trust? DA’s also are fiercely independent and feel they are better off alone- they assume they need to take care of themselves and no one will consider their needs. They have a lot of negative beliefs about relationships that come from emotional neglect and pain. You’re not on a roller coaster with them. Dismissive, their name, describes them well. On and off again is a nightmare to them so they won’t participate in that dance. My ex DA- 14 months later still is afraid to trust. No up or down. Steady shut down. |
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Post by 8675309 on Jan 13, 2019 17:37:37 GMT
Mine is FA but with some DA behavior. stayhappy I have a feeling he thinks the same, it’s just a break. My DA friend brought this part up as I would have not even thought of that when we chatted. she said she feels that way when she’s been apart. They are still there even though they are not around. She’s an aware DA. I told her things I say to him and she also said I she would not show it outward but inside would be melting if some of those things were said to her. like I’ve told my guy I have his back and understand him, etc. |
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Post by stayhappy on Jan 13, 2019 17:54:28 GMT
Sounds FA to me...Does he shut off his emotions and withdraw- truly withdraw not just for a month? Speak of being afraid to trust? DA’s also are fiercely independent and feel they are better off alone- they assume they need to take care of themselves and no one will consider their needs. They have a lot of negative beliefs about relationships that come from emotional neglect and pain. You’re not on a roller coaster with them. Dismissive, their name, describes them well. On and off again is a nightmare to them so they won’t participate in that dance. My ex DA- 14 months later still is afraid to trust. No up or down. Steady shut down. The reason I think he is more DA is because I kind of start to know when he will withdrow. If I don’t get in touch first he usually come back with 2-3 weeks. He has a very good jobb, works a lot and he seems to have a good self-confidence (I have a feeling that his confidence is not that good). He is not so good at talking about feelings. I do think I was in a roller coaster with him but it changed when I just stopped caring and start to enjoy the moment. He has said he has a hard time to let people in his life. He wants to stay together he just don’t want to commit, It scarys him because he is probably waiting for the one. He comes back because in his mind he was never out. I know he misses me efter some time apart, he just need to regulate himself. |
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Post by sissyk on Jan 13, 2019 23:29:26 GMT
Interesting thread! I do think its helpful to keep in mind one's attachment style is not the whole story for why people act the way they do and react to others the way they do. It is not like they follow manufacturer's operating instructions.
A person can be DA or FA and ALSO just not that into you....or fall out of love...or never had the feels....or DA/FA and want to keep you around on the bench because you are willing, they like the attention, and there is no down side to doing so.
So while I have found these categories enormously helpful in understanding my DA/FA and my AP reactions, I think there is a danger of getting swept into a narrative that is overly simplified.
My DA/FA may indeed have trouble with intimacy and shuts down with closeness--but part of the reason were not a storybook romance is he might also be secretly hoping to meet a petit Jennifer Lopez look alike
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 14, 2019 0:17:34 GMT
Interesting thread! I do think its helpful to keep in mind one's attachment style is not the whole story for why people act the way they do and react to others the way they do. It is not like they follow manufacturer's operating instructions. A person can be DA or FA and ALSO just not that into you....or fall out of love...or never had the feels....or DA/FA and want to keep you around on the bench because you are willing, they like the attention, and there is no down side to doing so. So while I have found these categories enormously helpful in understanding my DA/FA and my AP reactions, I think there is a danger of getting swept into a narrative that is overly simplified. My DA/FA may indeed have trouble with intimacy and shuts down with closeness--but part of the reason were not a storybook romance is he might also be secretly hoping to meet a petit Jennifer Lopez look alike Lol...ok, I def hear you and certainly some people just really aren’t into another, but those pesky attachment insecurities get in the way a lot!! |
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Post by happyidiot on Jan 15, 2019 2:12:48 GMT
The reason I think he is more DA is because I kind of start to know when he will withdrow. If I don’t get in touch first he usually come back with 2-3 weeks. He has a very good jobb, works a lot and he seems to have a good self-confidence (I have a feeling that his confidence is not that good). He is not so good at talking about feelings. I do think I was in a roller coaster with him but it changed when I just stopped caring and start to enjoy the moment. He has said he has a hard time to let people in his life. He wants to stay together he just don’t want to commit, It scarys him because he is probably waiting for the one. He comes back because in his mind he was never out. I know he misses me efter some time apart, he just need to regulate himself. What makes you think he is waiting for The One? Is that common with DAs? My experience with the strongly DA men I've dated has been that they value their freedom very highly and feel good without a serious relationship, whereas the FAs are the ones who are looking for The One, when really that person doesn't exist and is a way of preventing closeness. |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 15, 2019 2:24:35 GMT
I've had a lot of experience with DA men fantasizing about the one (either the one who will make them want to settle down in the future or a long-lost ex they loved), and it also being an unconscious distancing mechanism. Not just FA. The only DA I've had be totally fine with, I'll just be alone forever and enjoy that, it's cool, were aware DA.
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Post by happyidiot on Jan 15, 2019 2:46:33 GMT
I've had a lot of experience with DA men fantasizing about the one (either the one who will make them want to settle down in the future or a long-lost ex they loved), and it also being an unconscious distancing mechanism. Not just FA. The only DA I've had be totally fine with, I'll just be alone forever and enjoy that, it's cool, were aware DA. Interesting. Maybe the people that I have dated or have been friends with that I peg as clearly DA are just very extreme (which may be why I'm confident they are in fact DA). And it's possible that, for the ones I've dated, maybe they wouldn't share it with me if they were secretly imagining The One is out there. Whereas multiple FAs have come out and told me that they are looking for The One, and I'm of course not it, and they believe she would magically break their shell or inspire them to commit without any effort on their part (and/or they're not over their phantom exes from ages ago). The DAs I've dated didn't want to be totally alone, they just have a succession of very casual relationships or date multiple people, rather than "serious" relationships, and they seemed to feel fine about that. And my DA friend is completely ok with not even dating. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 3:05:17 GMT
I've had a lot of experience with DA men fantasizing about the one (either the one who will make them want to settle down in the future or a long-lost ex they loved), and it also being an unconscious distancing mechanism. Not just FA. The only DA I've had be totally fine with, I'll just be alone forever and enjoy that, it's cool, were aware DA. I agree with this. My take on this as a DA, is that, when you grow up as a dismissive you don't know you are different from about 75 percent of the population in terms of your ability to attach and remain attached. That is, even in anxious insecure, there is the strong pull, the attachment that feels like "love". In secure people; there is obviously the ability to attach and form long lasting bonds. In dismissive attachment, we experience a muted or even completely lost sense of attachment in deactivation. The attachment center shuts down. Not knowing that this is internal wiring, a mechanism of our nervous system, we probably just believe that we haven't found the right partner to evoke the love connection and attachment. We don't feel the pull, in fact we may feel a strong need to get away. We may remember a person in our past that we attached to, maybe even anxiously if they were somehow unavailable to us. We may reach back to that as the only time we felt really "in love" or attached. Someone made us feel it. It was probably just insecurity I guess. DA want to connect. When unaware, we don't know it's our brain that shuts down when we try, or when we feel threatened somehow in our inner sanctum. I'm sure we think we just haven't found the right partner, everyone talks about "The One.". That idea is common. We buy into that like anyone else would I think. Also, I agree that as an unaware DA I was more looking or waiting for "The One" that would make me feel what I thought love looked like- in movies and around me in other couples. Someone that I wanted to be with comfortably for a long time. Someone that I COULD be with. But, being insecurely attached and unaware, I chose toxic partners who were no more capable of intimacy than I. Cue the deactivation, the action and reaction of insecure attachment. Nope, I guess that wasn't "the One." Now that I am aware and have worked through a lot of inner stuff, pain and historical things, I feel quite comfortable with a life long solitude. I could also see myself in a long term relationship. I'm open to either, and both have advantages. Also- As for the "coming back". If a DA comes back it seems like it will always be as friends. I'm not saying FA won't do that also, I have no idea. But, there isn't the same anxious need in a DA to rekindle a romantic relationship. We've probably deactivated either in response to you breaking up or in our own process of breaking up with you. We probably feel some relief that won't soon be altered by an anxious flip/flop. The relationship has been threatened to the breaking point and is not easily repaired, and we are most likely investing ourselves more in other outlets for our satisfaction and enjoyment and personal progress. Or, the less healthy may just be distracting if they are generally unhappy anyway. We may not desire the relationship at all in romantic terms any more- and yet still appreciate a friendship if it's manageable. Some people can do that. If we enjoyed aspects of the connection and would like to continue, it will most likely be in a more relaxed way, that allows us to re establish some rapport without putting ourselves in the line of fire emotionally again somehow. Intensity tends to shut us down and breakups = intensity. I don't know of any DA that would jump back into what they jumped or were pushed out of. However, I remain platonic friends with some exes and we talk more than my girlfriends and I do. With no romantic inclinations between us at all. I can't speak for all DA by any means, this is just my experience and thoughts on the matter. I probably shouldn't use the term "we" and keep it to "I" statements but I don't want to go back edit, I will keep it in mind in the future. Sorry. |
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Post by stayhappy on Jan 15, 2019 8:19:17 GMT
I think you already got good answeres happyidiot 😊. I remember that one time a asked at the DA forum why did they deactivated when things were good as I could totally understand why do they deactivate when things are bad. It make me understand why my DA need some distance and come back later. He never deactivated because of it was any fight or things like that. He would always need some time apart after very good moments and of course sometimes I was not in my best days and could start a fight because of that. When he came back he would say like “It’s is who thought it was over, I was always here”. I think I could get irritated because I thought that he distancing himself meant he was not into me and instead and afraid to break up. One time he came back and I said “If you want to continue seeing me you will have to give me some clarity about distancing because that is making so irritated!” And he couldn’t explain so well but he said it was he need to get some power back because sometimes he felt he was losing it for me. Than I asked if I was too bossy and he answered it had not to do with that and he didn’t want to talk about it anymore because I wouldn’t understand it anyway. When I wrote about this situation at the DA forum I got really good insight if someone wants to read. I think he comes back because as he said it was never over but I’m sure when he decides to leave he will let me know. We are not in a relationship but we meet sometimes and in the moment I decided to not stress me about this anymore was the moment I see him more relaxed. It have been almost three months with some physical distancing but he text me to stay connected in some way. He even start joking about having kids and and how he started to long efter that. And not! I’m not waiting for him to decide if he wants a real relationship or not and he knows that too. |
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Post by happyidiot on Jan 16, 2019 22:09:15 GMT
stayhappyThat makes sense. I think you are right that FAs tend to be more inconsistent than DAs. As to whether coming back is a hallmark of FA only, I don't think so. I know one particular DA who definitely goes back to his exes. He can break up with someone for years and then go back to them (and get back into an actual relationship). I have dated DAs (who I am sure are not actually FA) who have come back, although those were situations where they didn't consider us in a serious relationship and so we hadn't had some big breakup. So based on the people I know, I don't agree with @mickey that DAs only come back as friends.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 15:33:46 GMT
stayhappyThat makes sense. I think you are right that FAs tend to be more inconsistent than DAs. As to whether coming back is a hallmark of FA only, I don't think so. I know one particular DA who definitely goes back to his exes. He can break up with someone for years and then go back to them (and get back into an actual relationship). I have dated DAs (who I am sure are not actually FA) who have come back, although those were situations where they didn't consider us in a serious relationship and so we hadn't had some big breakup. So based on the people I know, I don't agree with @mickey that DAs only come back as friends. As I said, I don't speak for all DA's. Here you are giving an example of one DA you know that goes back to exes after years and gets into a relationship. The others, you're saying were casually involved and the matter of serious relationship isn't in the equation. I reiterate, I'm speaking from my experience and from what I observe. This board has several posters trying to rekindle relationships of some kind with DA's who don't seem to want more than casual or a friendship, based on their words and actions. That rings true, to me. Every situation is different, but the prevailing AP perspective seems to be that there is potential for reconciliation to a serious relationship without clear indicators that this is true. That is a factor in the discussion as well, I think. |
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Post by stayhappy on Jan 17, 2019 16:05:44 GMT
stayhappyThat makes sense. I think you are right that FAs tend to be more inconsistent than DAs. As to whether coming back is a hallmark of FA only, I don't think so. I know one particular DA who definitely goes back to his exes. He can break up with someone for years and then go back to them (and get back into an actual relationship). I have dated DAs (who I am sure are not actually FA) who have come back, although those were situations where they didn't consider us in a serious relationship and so we hadn't had some big breakup. So based on the people I know, I don't agree with @mickey that DAs only come back as friends. As I said, I don't speak for all DA's. Here you are giving an example of one DA you know that goes back to exes after years and gets into a relationship. The others, you're saying were casually involved and the matter of serious relationship isn't in the equation. I reiterate, I'm speaking from my experience and from what I observe. This board has several posters trying to rekindle relationships of some kind with DA's who don't seem to want more than casual or a friendship, based on their words and actions. That rings true, to me. Every situation is different, but the prevailing AP perspective seems to be that there is potential for reconciliation to a serious relationship without clear indicators that this is true. That is a factor in the discussion as well, I think. I’m kind of secure and I think that many times AP believe in a reconciliation because their ex avoidant partner (fearful or dismissive) do send mixed signals, breadcrumbing, I don’t know how concious avoidants are about that kind of behavior. I just know that this kind of things don’t happen while I’m interacting with secures. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 16:11:10 GMT
Yep,that's the perennial issue.
Ambiguity exists on both sides of the equation, and the essential truth is that if it isn't clear, it isn't secure.
Trying to build a relationship with someone who says they don't want what you want , regardless of what else is said or done, is bound to be difficul. The only way to learn it is to live it and hopefully figure out your own path to secure, regardless of what someone else is doing.
Everyone hits bottom with this stuff in their own time.
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