Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 3:21:52 GMT
i feel anger in the chest, like a ball of fire that fills up my entire upper chest to throat, so think of the space between your mouth and underboob. it also comes out from my throat - that's why my voice rises when i get angry. and if i get really angry, i snap. the emotion just shoots out of my head lol, and it feels like my head exploded. I've rarely reached that state, but if i do, it's like a fire hydrant. happiness and fear come together, usually followed by sadness. This combination of feelings usually is from social interactions e.g., someone made me happy. when i'm feeling happy, it starts from the heart, very localized. then it squeezes probably from fear. when it comes out, it's also from my throat, but in a much smaller "stream" compared to anger - anger is like this massive water column exploding from a fire hose, happiness + fear is more constricted, softer, and weaker stream of intense emotion. sadness then just starts from the mid chest, sternum area, usually more like a welling up. awkwardness and embarrassment start with a pinch in a chest. could go all over the body if i let it, usually stays around the neck and shoulders. when im happy e.g., from eating good food tht i've been craving with no fear, it's more just a heavier, fuller, steadier spread of warmth from diaphragm area. contempt and disgust usually starts from the throat and eyes - eye rolling, and gag reflex. much more localized in the head (cos of judgment and wariness) than in the body. dread for me comes from the stomach and below the heart. this increasing sense of heaviness. anxiety is usually located around the area from the eyes to the boobs. lots of light, tense energy - think deer in headlights. The one time that "broke" me was when my ex started pulling away then texted me that he wanted to spend more time on work and less time on us. it just felt like my entire soul was ripped out of my chest from my throat - everything was empty. that ripping out emptied out both my brain and heart - I just wasn't there anymore, even though i was completely functioning e.g., going to work and having meetings. I don't think there was much feeling most of the times, just this big emptiness that was gaping and it felt no matter how much i breathed, the gap cannot be filled. usually, deep breathing helps to diffuse all the other feelings described above. A long time ago up to my early 20s, i rarely felt anything. I was quite cold and clinical, but probably just suppressed alot of emotions. I remember those times, the feelings mainly stayed in my eyes and head, not so much bodily. like what @janedoe said, i started "feeling" when someone told me I was emotionally retarded, and it was just... messy. I think as part of "feeling" I also got involved in alot of emotional trauma and drama, which I could have dealt with better when i was dissociated, but the experience of "feeling" PLUS the drama was just crazy making. It's like going to war without training but coming out of it as a soldier versus going to war as a trained combat soldier and coming out a veteran. @shiningstar - Wow, you’re good at this! Since I’m severely DA with my parents I wonder if I also suppress a lot of my feelings? I’m only AP in romantic relationships. i'm the same. DA with parents, AP in relationships (but I usually only get very involved with DA leaning men, so...who the hell knows). One other thing, alot of times, I feel quite empty in the pit of my stomach or the middle of my torso. When that happens, that usually means i'm somewhat dissociated and my eyes get very tense and heavy cos all the energy goes through that but my head feels empty. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 3:25:29 GMT
Interesting. I just read a very sad article about a Mormon family who was ambushed in Mexico, a man and his young son survived. It made me cry, that brave boy hid his siblings in the bushes and walked miles for help. My face felt hot and my eyes were stinging with tears but the rest of my body was neutral. Sometimes I will feel something like that as a crushing feeling in my chest. Would anybody else experiment with this , and add your observations? I think it could be a really good exercise. emotions are not always felt evenly across the body. It originates somewhere and then it depends on how well you feel and control it, it'll spread/localize. having a fuller experience i.e., more spread out, can be a good thing. Yoga/TCM principles believe that emotions are trapped as energy in localized spots when not felt and released. For women, it tends to be in the hips area, so doing pigeon is very freeing. The first time I did yin yoga, i came out of it so angry and sad all at the same time. these days, when i give more space to my emotion, i notice that it spreads out more evenly and so sits less intensely in one spot. This also has an effect of making the emotion seem alot less serious, and so i can deal with it more calmly than exploding so that the intense energy can get out of my body. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 3:27:32 GMT
Oh wow!! I'm sorry. I have felt punched in the stomach but I can't remember why. I think it was rather quick to subside. Does it stay with you? You don't have to answer all these questions. @inmourning - I don’t mind sharing. The abandonment/loss/rejection pain I feel in my stomach isn’t constant but in the direct aftermath of a break up or, for example, a partner shutting down on me will bring about those feelings. The severity wears off as time goes on- recalling different events w my therapist though brought up familiar feelings of abandonment in my stomach. I never notices where these emotions were felt before my therapist had me pause and feel the emotion. My DA has started to come out of his deactivation or “thaw” state as I call it. He responded to me Sat night and said he’d like to try again this upcoming week. I have a feeling I’ll get to practice my emotional self-control, communication and conflict resolution skills all at once. I do need to get a better handle of the self-awareness and questioning the negative self-talk. Be more direct in communication. And I want to tell him these things when we talk. Thank you for sharing that about your feelings. Also, about your DA. I am avoidant and also K is avoidant, and you would think that I'd always be aware of that but actually I'm not. So, I forget that he is a lot like me, and sometimes it gets very confusing to try to know what the hell is going on emotionally. Seriously, sometimes it's a clisterfu@/. What has improved things greatly over time is being very honest, emotionally. That's come in layers. At one time it was hugely vulnerable to tell him about a feeling that by now seems like just a fraction of what I share with him these days. It gets deeper and deeper. But really, telling him about my confusion, and speaking directly to what I'm working on emotionally, has enabled him to support me and we have built trust. If I didn't explain it I'd be alienating him all the time with no hope of resolving it. I still alienate him but he understands my dilemmas. I've told him it's confusing to me to lose all my feelings. He relates, of course. But I don't think he's heard anyone talk about it, or seen anyone to go to therapy about it. I've told him it's painful to feel love sometimes, I tell him pretty much everything I go through. I know it's different because you're AP with your man, and he shuts down in response. But avoidants shut down with each other too, don't feel like you're more defective, we all are. I am sure your man is actually a very deep feeler and he struggles with that. He does sound empathetic, just subject to deactivation. I don't know him but he doesn't sound like a mean guy. I don't know what you've shared about your personal growth struggles with him, but today K and I had a conversation about how valuable that's been for us. Being real about our struggles and insecurities and confusion about life. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 3:32:43 GMT
Oh wow @shiningstar, I am going to read that a couple times to reflect on it. So you're really fluent in your body language. I'm kind of amazed that you can articulate and differentiate that way. I've never thought about some of the things you mentioned, like really parsed it out like that. I think that I used to be more in tune, I as though my freeze got worse over time. Actually I think it's varied a bit over time. With increasing loses which count as trauma it got worse.
Thank you for sharing that detailed response. Do you just automatically know all that off the top of your head, or did you have to really think about it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 3:34:46 GMT
Interesting. I just read a very sad article about a Mormon family who was ambushed in Mexico, a man and his young son survived. It made me cry, that brave boy hid his siblings in the bushes and walked miles for help. My face felt hot and my eyes were stinging with tears but the rest of my body was neutral. Sometimes I will feel something like that as a crushing feeling in my chest. Would anybody else experiment with this , and add your observations? I think it could be a really good exercise. emotions are not always felt evenly across the body. It originates somewhere and then it depends on how well you feel and control it, it'll spread/localize. having a fuller experience i.e., more spread out, can be a good thing. Yoga/TCM principles believe that emotions are trapped as energy in localized spots when not felt and released. For women, it tends to be in the hips area, so doing pigeon is very freeing. The first time I did yin yoga, i came out of it so angry and sad all at the same time. these days, when i give more space to my emotion, i notice that it spreads out more evenly and so sits less intensely in one spot. This also has an effect of making the emotion seem alot less serious, and so i can deal with it more calmly than exploding so that the intense energy can get out of my body. I'm limited to my face and head a lot of the time. My therapist says that's the freeze response, numbing me out. My body doesn't go numb to feelings like my socks and itchy pants or stuff like that- but I often search to find an emotion in my body when he asks me and it's not there. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 3:37:57 GMT
When that happens he asks for my word pictures because that's how I "feel" the most, when I paint the picture with words. Metaphors and such. For instance something I shared recently but deleted, was a feeling of relief and happiness that I sensed as "People I love putting presents on my chest and laughing. " So if you think of that as an emotional feeling it's pretty good. The strongest sense I had of it was a visual. The visual is spontaneous and on point, and sensed stronger than the "feeling", for me. It's what I notice.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 3:44:46 GMT
as a kid, i've always been very sensitive to my body - i was sickly alot so i often have to "feel" what the problem was to describe it to the doctors/nurses/mother. Also, i'm sensitive to energy and so I use it to "evaluate" people. The problem was I wasn't guided on how best to use it, and when I have emotions, it's super difficult to deal because it's overwhelming physically plus other psychological traumas as we all well know. I also do alot of yoga so that helps - but my yoga skills are better than the average because I'm bodily sensitive. Yoga makes me even more sensitive, because it opens up the connections, within body, the mind and body, and at some point mind-body-soul. You might not think "it's not there", but it doesn't matter in my opinion. I think your emotions originate somewhere and perhaps just stayed there, without activating the other parts or moving to other parts, because it's your way of limiting the emotions and its effects. I guess that's the freeze response - i'm very well aware of that cos I used to do it. These days, i try to channel it as a tool, with will and skill. What changed for me was the willingness to feel and have emotions. the process might be abit chaotic, but once I've decided to be emotionally available to myself, things just unravel from there. I think everyone has a different process for themselves. for me it was just alot of lying on the couch and letting my body go so that the emotional energy can flow. (can i also say that my orgasms are way more intense now because of this ability to channel my energies  ). on a side note, you speak of talking to K about your emotions etc etc. That takes both hands to clap - you willing to talk + he willing to listen AND VICE VERSA. He is ALSO willing to talk and you willing to listen. This allows for emotions to flow because it has somewhere to go and someone to receive. It is not just sharing, but having someone willing to receive, that creates a channel of mutual communication and emotional exchange. I see it as a tunnel that connects two people. Some people have a channel that only goes one way, or nothing is shared in that channel, or there's no channel. When that channel is built strong and is free flowing both ways, that's when i think emotions are felt most intensely but safely. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 3:51:30 GMT
@shiningstar I totally agree about the channel. I kind of think or believe that his listening, and the safe place he makes for me gives life to me emotionally. I also feel that from my friends and others who love me. It's like caring and empathy water seeds and they break through. Even the negative things, sadness or anger or whatever. Him listening to it all when I need him to lets it manifest and change. If that makes sense. Instead of it all staying underground. It's a mutual way of tending to feelings. He isn't just a wall that my feelings splat all over... He hold his hands out to receive them and then helps me take care of them. I have been a mess lately. I'm glad I have help but also sometimes I get really discouraged and don't want to go through it all.
Aaaannnd I still deactivate plenty. I am, however, getting better at letting the emotions flow. The therapy has been extremely helpful for that. I was pretty stuck. I didn't realize it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 6:55:05 GMT
like i said, i was very much in my head - very DA. at some point, without therapy, i decided to try "the other way", and just swung very hard to the other side. still recovering from it though. Spot on. Without the normal coping function of dissociation/deactivation/suppression that you may be used to, it's a huge huge mess. You guys are both making it sound like deactivation of the nervous system is a conscious choice, and that somehow activation just happens to you. I don't know if that's what you're actually saying, but the attachment nervous system responses are not chosen consciously. We all have the capacity for each to some degree. I can see you both using active words for pushing things down. Maybe you've fought emotions. But not everybody pushes them down, sometimes they GET pushed down and put out of reach, by the nervous system. It can be a mess one way or the other. I don't have more sympathy for one response over the other, they are both from developmental (and other) trauma. |
|
|
|
Post by happyidiot on Nov 11, 2019 7:07:42 GMT
Spot on. Without the normal coping function of dissociation/deactivation/suppression that you may be used to, it's a huge huge mess. You guys are both making it sound like deactivation of the nervous system is a conscious choice, and that somehow activation just happens to you. I don't know if that's what you're actually saying, but the attachment nervous system responses are not chosen consciously. We all have the capacity for each to some degree. I can see you both using active words for pushing things down. Maybe you've fought emotions. But not everybody pushes them down, sometimes they GET pushed down and put out of reach, by the nervous system. It can be a mess one way or the other. I don't have more sympathy for one response over the other, they are both from developmental (and other) trauma. I often see people talking about how avoidants choose to turn off our feelings—even words like “suppress” are problematic to me because they sound intentional. I wish it were a choice! I am learning how to choose to open myself back up, but it’s challenging, and I’ve never purposely disconnected or buried my emotions. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 7:12:37 GMT
You guys are both making it sound like deactivation of the nervous system is a conscious choice, and that somehow activation just happens to you. I don't know if that's what you're actually saying, but the attachment nervous system responses are not chosen consciously. We all have the capacity for each to some degree. I can see you both using active words for pushing things down. Maybe you've fought emotions. But not everybody pushes them down, sometimes they GET pushed down and put out of reach, by the nervous system. It can be a mess one way or the other. I don't have more sympathy for one response over the other, they are both from developmental (and other) trauma. I often see people talking about how avoidants choose to turn off our feelings—even words like “suppress” are problematic to me because they sound intentional. I wish it were a choice! I am learning how to choose to open myself back up, but it’s challenging, and I’ve never purposely disconnected or buried my emotions. I think it sounds very ignorant to talk about it as conscious and calculating. We are talking about the autonomic nervous system. I usually see this coming from anxious posters who are like "Poor me I can't help this anxiety!" (triggered by an avoidant) but then point at the avoidant adaptation as if its chosen and calculated. It's not accurate. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 7:16:22 GMT
@janedoe your word choice and description imply a matter of choice, even as to where you "shoved" the feelings. Maybe that's not what you mean.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 7:19:25 GMT
And @shiningstar you write that I may "Think it's not there" which doesn't matter in your opinion? That emotions originate somewhere and etc etc because it's my "way of limiting emotion?".
If I try to feel a sensation and it's not there that means I can't feel it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 7:39:23 GMT
@janedoe your word choice and description imply a matter of choice, even as to where you "shoved" the feelings. Maybe that's not what you mean. I know. I’m hesitant to use the word deactivate because I don’t know enough about it. This is still fairly new to me. I’ve read “suppression” can be a choice or not. Ie your brain may suppress overwhelming emotions after trauma for survival purposes. Maybe that’s akin to deactivation. All I know at this point is that I felt something initially and then I didn’t. But I also lost all other feeling. When I say shoved down, I don’t think they disappear. I connected much more to my dad’s death in adulthood than I did in childhood. As an adult, as I learned to connect to my emotions, I’ve cried over things that happened to me as a child that I never shed a tear for at the time. It was weird. I had no idea any of that actually had an effect on me. I want to say choice has to do with choosing distracting behaviors. Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, activation and deactivation of the nervous system are autonomic responses. There are behaviors associated with each. I'm not new to deactivation and my experience of it is other than how you're describing it, but it is all difficult to describe, can be baffling. I know I'm deactivated a bit right now. We can learn to work with these responses, but they are instinctive responses to perceived threats. If deactivation were completely voluntary I'd have been done with this shit long ago and just living the life. For sure. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 7:44:22 GMT
I don't think anybody means that these things are intentional, including @janedoe and myself. As experienced posters, I think we are well aware that these things are rarely done on purpose as a calculating move. Anxious triggered also do shit that looks like it's intentionally meant to hurt you, but I can assure you that they also feel out of control and it's not by choice that they're "spilling everywhere". It's the same for deactivation that is not a conscious calculating move, but it appears to be so.
I think the implied "choice" interpreted from words like "shoving" is mistaken. I'm speaking in general terms here and largely from my own experience, to try to make sense of what @inmourning said. Avoiding behavior tend to be more "active" like suppressing and managing, while anxious behaviors tend to be more "passive" like letting going, going out of control. In the former, the energy/emotion is kept IN while in the latter, the energy/emotion is let OUT. The "choice" is more of what we are doing with the "emotional gates". avoidants shut it to keep it in, the anxious open it to let it out. Both are not "choices", but the former sounds more active than the latter. Don't know if this makes any sense? That is how I've experienced it.
I, however, am much more aware that im "managing" my feelings by deactivation/dissociation, as compared to when i was triggered anxious. Being triggered anxious is really spinning out of control where you cannot, no matter how hard you try, reign it in. It felt like... once I've let it out, I couldn't contain the mess at all. it's like when dams break or when you drop eggs. The outpouring of energy is unstoppable and so I felt very little control over it. While i was suppressing, it was much more of a cognitive process where there's much more "control" because I would notice the emotion and then keep it where it's at by shoving, dismissing, ignoring, dissociating from it. So at the very least, I had high perceived self-control.
Edit: I did choose consciously to feel things. It's a weird process, because i started feeling things by first asking myself - how would other people feel, and then trying to emulate that. I also stopped my cognitive processes of justifying/dismissing. If i had an inkling of anger, I have to work actively to feel , expand , and express it. But the process was very clumsy and messy, because every emotion, even the happy ones, was like a massive bomb that I couldn't contain and when it detonated, it would trigger a series of mini explosions of other emotions. Happy will trigger fear and sadness. Anger will trigger sadness and pity. Contempt will trigger fear and anger and disgust.
|
|
).
