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Post by serenity on Feb 13, 2020 21:02:38 GMT
You can swing `FA' because of traumatic romantic relationships, it doesn't always happen in early childhood. When trauma happens later in life, you probably have a better chance at healing your triggers and associated behaviour, compared to when it happens in early childhood.
You probably won't know how deep his avoidance runs until the 3-6 month mark, after the honeymoon feeling ends.
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Feb 13, 2020 21:05:00 GMT
You can swing `FA' because of traumatic romantic relationships, it doesn't always happen in early childhood. When trauma happens later in life, you probably have a better chance at healing compared to when it happens in early childhood. Yes, I agree. But he also has trauma from childhood (see earlier posts). |
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Post by amber on Feb 13, 2020 21:10:41 GMT
Good to kept this in mind going forward...specially when u say things like “he hasn’t showed signs of being avoidant yet”.... we all know that usually doesn’t show until 3-6 months in. If you are only one month in take everything with a grain of salt, he probably just hasn’t been triggered yet
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Post by serenity on Feb 13, 2020 21:11:19 GMT
Just be careful then? If you started Dating mid January, the relationship is still very new. Avoidants can seem stable for the honeymoon, then flip 180 3-6 months in.
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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 13, 2020 21:28:05 GMT
You can swing `FA' because of traumatic romantic relationships, it doesn't always happen in early childhood. When trauma happens later in life, you probably have a better chance at healing compared to when it happens in early childhood. Yes, I agree. But he also has trauma from childhood (see earlier posts). As studies have shown, self esteem really doesn't over the course of a lifetime vary that much from the average. As we all know is very very dependent on childhood upbringing. Sure you can have a bout of varying depression, and the self esteem may drop temporarily, or a traumatic event. But particularly when he's testing like that, with the pie chart being evenly distributed, says it all really. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 13, 2020 23:45:31 GMT
bohemianraspberry, your pie chart is firmly AP. His looks probably FA, definitely very anxious leaning. I had a very stable relationship with my long term FA ex for about 7 months. Then, after we started traveling and celebrating family occasions together (at his behest, though he'd never traveled with a gf before), he suddenly flipped and "lost attraction." We spent another 5 months in a power play as he deactivated and got nit picky, even though we still spent all our time together, and then were on off trying to mutually work things out for another 9 months after I took like 8 months of no contact and started getting more secure. It was all pretty devastating for me, so painful that I was falling apart enough to be motivated to fix myself. I wouldn't recommend this if you want a long-term stable thing. I'm also concerned about your therapist just saying you seem happy enough to not need more tools from her unless you need a tune up. If you're still testing firmly AP, there's plenty of work that you could do to earn secure if you chose. The AP will flair when you get stressed about something and your nervous system is flooded, and the time to work on that is when you're not triggered and have capacity to do the work...
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Feb 14, 2020 7:42:46 GMT
I am not even sure that I want a long term relationship (type like rest of our life). I am enjoying the moment as well. I guess that's why I am OK with it, even if I know I should not. I do not think I have fallen too deep, I feel I am in control and conscious about what's going on.
It is good for us that he is aware of attachment theory now, and his own style.
I have told him that I need a playful, but still secure and responsible man – as in playful but not immature. So he is very well aware of that his style is not exactly what I am looking for. Time will tell if he choose to do something about it, and how the dynamics between up develop.
He has just asked me to go with him on a one week vacation now. Because he didn't have a vacation at all in 2019, and he needs it, and would love to travel with me. I hesitated to say yes, and told him maybe one whole week together is too long this soon? He said if it gets too much we just have to book one more room. So I guess this will be a kind of acid test for us. One week together 24/7 has to bring up some minor irritations at least. And we can see how we handle it, and if he (or myself) turns more avoidant when we come back. Or is it still too early (honeymoon phase) for these signs to show up?
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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 14, 2020 9:02:09 GMT
I am not even sure that I want a long term relationship (type like rest of our life). I am enjoying the moment as well. I guess that's why I am OK with it, even if I know I should not. I do not think I have fallen too deep, I feel I am in control and conscious about what's going on. It is good for us that he is aware of attachment theory now, and his own style. I have told him that I need a playful, but still secure and responsible man – as in playful but not immature. So he is very well aware of that his style is not exactly what I am looking for. Time will tell if he choose to do something about it, and how the dynamics between up develop. He has just asked me to go with him on a one week vacation now. Because he didn't have a vacation at all in 2019, and he needs it, and would love to travel with me. I hesitated to say yes, and told him maybe one whole week together is too long this soon? He said if it gets too much we just have to book one more room. So I guess this will be a kind of acid test for us. One week together 24/7 has to bring up some minor irritations at least. And we can see how we handle it, and if he (or myself) turns more avoidant when we come back. Or is it still too early (honeymoon phase) for these signs to show up? All I'll say Bohemian is, if he is indeed an F-A and whirlwinding you, as a LOT do, the only loser is you as you become attached, and then he withdraws at some point. You clearly have reservations, so that is your intuition kicking in to even post this up. You are asking for an opinion. Anyone that says they gain happiness from you, does not love themselves sadly, and it's a penchant for future disaster sadly  regardless of whether it's 3 months, 6 months, 12 months or 5 years or 20 years! The only variable is the tolerance for the behaviour, as outlined in all these forums. Have fun if you can stay "unattached", which is difficult. All the best |
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Feb 14, 2020 11:22:19 GMT
All I'll say Bohemian is, if he is indeed an F-A and whirlwinding you, as a LOT do, the only loser is you as you become attached, and then he withdraws at some point. You clearly have reservations, so that is your intuition kicking in to even post this up. You are asking for an opinion. Anyone that says they gain happiness from you, does not love themselves sadly, and it's a penchant for future disaster sadly regardless of whether it's 3 months, 6 months, 12 months or 5 years or 20 years! The only variable is the tolerance for the behaviour, as outlined in all these forums. Have fun if you can stay "unattached", which is difficult. All the best You are right. I have thought about insisting on that he should see a psychologist, if this should turn into a committed relationship. I have already suggested it twice. He do not seem too unwilling. He understand he has issues. He even said:I wonder if I should choose a female or male therapist. He has not made any appointment yet, though. |
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Post by amber on Feb 14, 2020 19:04:58 GMT
All I'll say Bohemian is, if he is indeed an F-A and whirlwinding you, as a LOT do, the only loser is you as you become attached, and then he withdraws at some point. You clearly have reservations, so that is your intuition kicking in to even post this up. You are asking for an opinion. Anyone that says they gain happiness from you, does not love themselves sadly, and it's a penchant for future disaster sadly regardless of whether it's 3 months, 6 months, 12 months or 5 years or 20 years! The only variable is the tolerance for the behaviour, as outlined in all these forums. Have fun if you can stay "unattached", which is difficult. All the best You are right. I have thought about insisting on that he should see a psychologist, if this should turn into a committed relationship. I have already suggested it twice. He do not seem too unwilling. He understand he has issues. He even said:I wonder if I should choose a female or male therapist. He has not made any appointment yet, though. The issue with you insisting that he see a psychologist is that it doesn’t come from him wanting to make changes for himself. If he does it for you chances are inevitably it will not work... you have to want/be ready for change because you see and know you need to change, not for another person or for a r/ship...especially a very early r/ship. Perhaps if you were married and there were major issues this insistence may work; but you’ve only been dating a month.i personally would be pissed if someone I only knew for a short while insisted I get counselling in order to form a r/ship with me...could come off a bit controlling. He may yes to appease you but could become resentful down the track.also, I spent a year with my FA who for about 8 months, regularly stated he knew he needed to get help, and even once initiated it, but never followed through. One thing I’ve learned from r/ships is ALWAYS pay attention to actions, not words. I remember reading in an attachment book that anxiously attached people have trouble watching people’s actions, and often get hung up on words that don’t mean anything without follow through action. |
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Feb 15, 2020 9:46:05 GMT
You are right. I have thought about insisting on that he should see a psychologist, if this should turn into a committed relationship. I have already suggested it twice. He do not seem too unwilling. He understand he has issues. He even said:I wonder if I should choose a female or male therapist. He has not made any appointment yet, though. The issue with you insisting that he see a psychologist is that it doesn’t come from him wanting to make changes for himself. If he does it for you chances are inevitably it will not work... you have to want/be ready for change because you see and know you need to change, not for another person or for a r/ship...especially a very early r/ship. Perhaps if you were married and there were major issues this insistence may work; but you’ve only been dating a month.i personally would be pissed if someone I only knew for a short while insisted I get counselling in order to form a r/ship with me...could come off a bit controlling. He may yes to appease you but could become resentful down the track.also, I spent a year with my FA who for about 8 months, regularly stated he knew he needed to get help, and even once initiated it, but never followed through. One thing I’ve learned from r/ships is ALWAYS pay attention to actions, not words. I remember reading in an attachment book that anxiously attached people have trouble watching people’s actions, and often get hung up on words that don’t mean anything without follow through action. Yes, I totally see that. It came up naturally in the conversation when we talked about me seeing a psychologist myself. And I said I recommend it, for the issues he had told me about. But you are right, I just have to wait and watch the actions. |
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Post by mrob on Feb 15, 2020 23:58:08 GMT
We’re hard work. Mind you, so are all insecurely attached people in their own way.
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Post by bohemianraspberry on Jun 24, 2020 15:40:43 GMT
4 months since I last logged in. Wanted to give you an update. I am still seeing this man, my Tinder-match from 5 months ago. He is still very affectionate, and at the same time with a high integrity. We realize that time alone is a need we both have. So we give each other space. After 1-2 days together we have 1-5 days to ourselves. We are in touch everyday though, by sms or phone call. This is a perfect setting for us.
So he is avoidant in a positive way, as he is open about it and it suits my needs for personal meetings as well. But he always responds to messages as soon as he can and doesn't avoid me any other way.
About his anxious side, he has become more self-confident, because of me. And I think he still says so many lovely thing to me, partly to get that in return. So i guess he is codependent in some way (maybe me as well). There was also one occation, about a month ago, where he was unsure if I still wanted him (the first time I was reluctant to sex). He actually got a panic attack while a was with him. He looked very scared and sad and held me tight while it lasted. I managed to talk him through it. I asked if he thought negative about himself and he agreed. I assured him that I loved him and made him conscious about the moment to make him come back to reality. Afterwords he didn't want to talk about it. But I could tell he was thankful for my reaction. This is the only episode during these months that made me somehow worried.
He is very intelligent, caring, attentive, good looking, best lover ever. We are happy together, and I hope it will last.
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Post by Dualcitizen on Jun 26, 2020 2:26:38 GMT
4 months since I last logged in. Wanted to give you an update. I am still seeing this man, my Tinder-match from 5 months ago. He is still very affectionate, and at the same time with a high integrity. We realize that time alone is a need we both have. So we give each other space. After 1-2 days together we have 1-5 days to ourselves. We are in touch everyday though, by sms or phone call. This is a perfect setting for us. So he is avoidant in a positive way, as he is open about it and it suits my needs for personal meetings as well. But he always responds to messages as soon as he can and doesn't avoid me any other way. About his anxious side, he has become more self-confident, because of me. And I think he still says so many lovely thing to me, partly to get that in return. So i guess he is codependent in some way (maybe me as well). There was also one occation, about a month ago, where he was unsure if I still wanted him (the first time I was reluctant to sex). He actually got a panic attack while a was with him. He looked very scared and sad and held me tight while it lasted. I managed to talk him through it. I asked if he thought negative about himself and he agreed. I assured him that I loved him and made him conscious about the moment to make him come back to reality. Afterwords he didn't want to talk about it. But I could tell he was thankful for my reaction. This is the only episode during these months that made me somehow worried. He is very intelligent, caring, attentive, good looking, best lover ever. We are happy together, and I hope it will last. I guess the important things are communication of true needs ASAP, not pushing them down or using an unhealthy say "avoidance coping" mechanism to deal with emotions or stress. That you both are truly open and honest and vulnerable, and wont leverage that vulnerability against the other person in some fashion. Secondarily, the lack of self love could be an issue long term as that comes with weak boundaries and poor communication of needs generally. You just don't want to be the source of someone else's happiness, that's where the issues arise, or vice versa, he makes you happy, but potentially you aren't happy in yourself with your life generally outside a relationship. That will always lead to dramas in the end sadly. It's about being happy in yourself, knowing yourself, being mindful, enjoying your hobbies and exploring things you personally wish to explore, and finding someone to compliment your life. Not be a crutch. It's ok to give somewhat, be compassionate etc (I myself have said on these forums I wish to help an ex. with a potential F-A attachment and CPTSD symptoms, I have plenty of spare capacity in my life to give in this regard, and I am highly boundaried, I wont ever be a full crutch or used and abused in anyway, I will be letting the other person know ASAP) but they must be the ones ultimately who sort their issues, there truly is no other way, sadly. Otherwise it just leads to resentment, and a failure for the other person to fill the void that can never be filled. I wish you all the best in your endeavours |
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Post by serenity on Jun 26, 2020 9:10:39 GMT
I like that you have great communication too @bohemianraspberry . In my own life, I've met all kinds of people and a good many have vulnerabilities and insecurities when you really get to know them, especially with life experience and age. The way those things are communicated makes all the difference. I would never turn away from someone who says 'hey, I feel a bit vulnerable right now, I could use a hug or X,Y, Z'. Its a huge difference from someone who stonewalls you, gives the silent treatment, cheats, won't say what they feel or attacks your self worth with excessive criticism and abandons you.
I wouldn't worry about him being vulnerable in some ways. It might have specific implications for your relationship long term but you can work it out because he respects you and you have good communication.
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regardless of whether it's 3 months, 6 months, 12 months or 5 years or 20 years! The only variable is the tolerance for the behaviour, as outlined in all these forums. 