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Post by seeking on Nov 19, 2020 13:27:27 GMT
So at the recommendation of my therapist, I'm going to be joining online CoDA meetings. I think they will be helpful.
I'm really healing in all realms. And boundaries have been really important right now.
So I'm learning way better boundaries, assertivess, working on early developmental trauma, no more appeasing/fawning. I've been in abusive relationships.
I don't want to bias opinions about my sister, but she can be a very difficult person - for a lot of people. I would say she is extremely neurotic. I have thought borderline or narcissistic at times, but I think safe to say neurotic. She is also very very dismissive. I don't know about her early relationships. She's been married to her husband for 12 years and has been since she was 30. They have 3 kids. I believe he is more anxious and she's avoidant. She's also very critical of people. She can be perfectionist. I know she creates her own suffering but she can also be a total b*tch, sometimes it's hard to sympathize.
Anyway, she is in a situation where she makes other people do stuff for her and has health issues that she sticks to and has admitted that if she gives up the issues she'd have to like "face life" - (not her words, but in a nutshell). So her husband runs circles doing everything for her - her kids. He provides from them, they live in a million-dollar home, he does housework, dishes, and really - when I'm there - she sits around spending money and complaining a lot. She has wanted to divorce him, for no clear reason.
I remember one time we were at their house - here's a man who loves my sister, is such a good guy, good provider, would do anything for her. She's sitting at home not working (being a mom, which is work), they have a couple kids at this point, and how she greets him - in front of me, my mom, kids - "What are those eyebrows?" To her husband?! Like way to shame your man in front of everyone.
You don't feel love coming from this person. She is very very much about herself and there is no joy around her, expect for her sense of humor.
Long story short, we have a pattern of getting "close" - as close as can be to her and I'm more the pursuer - although he has been that to me, largely when she needs help about something. And then usually something "snaps" - b/c a boundary has been crossed or maybe there is weird enmeshment and we stop talking. Usually by the next family gathering, it's as though nothing has happened, and we talk again. And we never really resolve the thing. We've gone on this way for years.
Prior to having kids though we never had a relationship. It was living in the same area and having a kid 1 year apart etc that brought us together. My whole time being a mom, I have had crazy stress - a narc ex, abuse, separation, a kid on the spectrum, little money, etc. etc. My sister was *never there" for any of it. Mostly I had to act like none of it was happening when I was around her which, writing this makes me realize that is the pain around it.
Anyway, I think I let that go for a long time. This year, she and I saw different sides to the COVID thing. She was extremely nonchalant about it and would look down on other people for freaking out. That's the odd thing about her - she'll have complete meltdowns over really small things but if you freak out she'll basically make fun of you and roll her eyes.
So it was like she had this all under control (when even no one did) and would go "I'm not worried about COVID, whatever."
Lo and behold, I have a perfect storm in August. My daughter has her birthday - my sister comes "for a little while" even though our kids NEVER get to see each other and can play and be together for hours. This year it was her daughter's softball as the reason why they couldn't play or do a sleepover, etc. She didn't want her daughter to be tired for softball.
Anyway, she makes a big deal out of seeing if my daughter will sleep over for her kid's birthday. So I make crazy arrangements with my narc ex to make it happen. I go to all this trouble and now there is no sleepover. So I'm waiting to hear what the plan is, and my attorney in my court case with my ex drops me. I'm left pro se with a shark of an attorney (opposing me) and get what appears to be COVID. Now I'm not sure if my kid can start her first day back at school. I'm getting tests, have a fever, trying to show up in online mediation. And my mom (bless her heart) says "Are you going to the girls birthday this weekend." And I'm like "What birthday?" - So odd. We weren't invited. So my sister texts me, and I said "I just got a covid test," And she said "Well don't believe the tests." Meanwhile, I'm SO SICK - like sicker than I've been in my life. I don't know what's happening. And I don't tell anyone what I'm going through because I truly don't want to scare anyone an there's nothing anyone can do anyway! I didn't want to get anyone sick.... So I make the heartbreakingly hard decision not to go. And my mom starts BARGAINING WITH ME - b/c she's literally afraid of my sister. "Oh, I can come pick up L [my daughter]" - and I'm like, Mom? Do you get that I have presumptive COVID? Do you get there is a pandemic? Do you get that children might be asymptomatic and carriers? Do you really want her to go?
So we do this 2 more times with me having to literally FIGHT my mom. And my kid and I spend a miserable weekend alone with me so sick. We email the cousins, try to do Facetime, tell them how sad we are to miss it. My daughter is a big girl about it. And I hear nothing from my sister.
2 weeks later, I get an email from her about how she has to "protect her kids" from me. And how this has become a thing now -- it actually turns out we didn't attend the cousins last 2 birthday parties.
The truth is, we love the cousins. We would attend their parties in a heartbeat - 2 years prior she had a rollerskating party, at night, a hour and a half away before my kid (who is high-functioning autism) sarted her first day at a new school. We just couldn't do it. The next year, my daughter, who also has PANS/PANDAS - which is a neuro-inflammatory issue, was in a really bad flare and threatening to jump out of a moving car. she was violent with me in a grocery store. I had to wait it out. That year, my sister stopped talking to us.
So now it's a "thing" for her.
My mom, who is uber-codependent and plays complete victim and also tries to intentionally stay out of all this says "Are you coming to your sister's for Thanksgiving." I simply say, "I wasn't invited." And she says, "Oh, of course you can come." Ha.
So my daughter is sick now (b/c her dad took her to a party this weekend). My mom finds this out, feels bad for us - and then I get a group text from my sister (to my parents - who obviously are already going to her house - my aunt - who is not leaving her house, which everyone knows - and me) "Anyone who wants to come for Thanksgiving next week."
I have no dog sitter. Can't bring out dog to her house b/c she's allergic. We can't even leave him in the laundry room. So I don't know what to do.
I have the choice to respond to her and say "okay." And just suck it up and go for the sake of my daughter. Not to mention, though, that I'm already concerned about the well-being of my parents. Even though I'm the only one who is!
Or not go.
Or address things with her. But where do you even begin with this? <----- This, I suppose, is really my question in all this. Where do I begin to say anything at all to her? I have so much hurt over being treated so poorly. Over her constant excuses for being mad at other people versus being able to truly be there for them - or even remotely be there for them!
A good friend of mine said to me, "Your sister has no f*cking idea what you go through. She's totally clueless, and not even able to get it. The legal stuff, the housing, housing paperwork, looking for a relationship, COVID, single mom, kid with special needs.
She’s like a child. She doesn't get your life."
I think this is even pretty generous toward my sister. She's not a child. She really *chooses* not to get my life. And, in my healing, I do not want to appease people anymore. I don't want to betray and abandon myself anymore. I don't want to pretend.
And, yet, I don't want a big drama right now. I can't. I don't have it. I have a kid who wants a normal life and, after everything she's been through - so the "easiest" thing would be to just go, say nothing. Act normal. But if we do end up "back together" I really have no idea how to address something like this with someone like her - she is a tough person (not a safe person) for me to be vulnerable with and I'm afraid she will - as she usually does - just make it about her anyway.
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 19, 2020 18:58:06 GMT
So...to be fair....I did not read all of this....but if you don’t want big drama...and you know that if you go, that is what you will experience, then I would not go. It is fine to say that you have other plans.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 19, 2020 19:24:27 GMT
seeking, I think a problem that I've seen before in people trying to address their own mental health that come from families with difficult personalities (ie, their own unaddressed mental health problems) is the deep wish that the family members can change. That if you change, and/or you try to have a vulnerable or rational conversation, you can improve the relationship. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Like, if you've had your own problems, by the time you become aware and want to address this stuff it's possible that maybe you never did properly communicate and the family member doesn't know how you feel and has the capacity to listen, receive it, and think about it. But, being that mental health issues generally don't happen in a vacuum, it's equally possible that they do not have the capacity to be aware or the desire to improve, and they will never choose to listen or change. After you say your piece, it's important to understand it may have no impact, and that you have strong enough boundaries to know it's them and not you, acknowledge that the relationship may never be what you'd ideally want (or anything healthy at all), and be willing to emotionally walk away from having a "relationship" to protect yourself. That if you have obligations to them, go through the physical motions, but don't have expectations for the relationship. Accept who they are and then figure out the best and healthiest ways for *you* to guide how you'll respond to them and interact, and don't feel guilty if it doesn't look like, in this case, how a "traditional" sisterly relationship would be. And that that's okay. In this case, I personally have not gone near anyone who doesn't take pandemic-distancing very seriously. I need to be able to trust the person, and have a basis for that trust. I know people with family members who have died and I know young people without underlying conditions who have ended up in the hospital with lung damage. I keep wondering how the waves grow and grow, and then read about big parties and it's so hard for me to understand. So... my advice is biased and I'm going to say, screw that. If your relationship with these people is you walking on eggshells anyway, because nothing you do will ever please them because of THEIR OWN problems which they do not want any help with or to solve period, then honestly, what's the difference if you show up or not? They'll find ways to treat you poorly whether you show up or you don't, so protect your health and your child's health and don't. After the pandemic, if you want to reengage in person, it sounds like you can waltz back in after another long no contact break, and your sister will pretend nothing happened anyway. I know you don't want your mother to nag you, but this is an opportunity to practice good boundaries with your mom. And I know you want your daughter to know her family and not suffer. I'm going to say something really sad now, building on my experience being a kid with extended family who all acted like this. Being around unhealthy behavior like this normalizes it. I had a lot more issues to work through as a result, and I still grew up to have horrible or no relationships with a lot of those family members (including cousins of similar age) because they have no inclination to work out their own issues and are emotionally abusive and crappy people. And when I say no relationship, this wasn't because I evolved and walked away from them... I was AP and kept trying and they treated me like crap over and over and kept me shut out. Now that I have good boundaries and learned all this stuff and can recognize what it is, it's sad but I accept it, don't bother, and my life is (again, sadly, but truly) better for it. I don't know how much of this and the nuance your daughter picks up if she's on the spectrum, but the way they treat you is going to be similar to how they treat her because it's how they treat everyone. So, consider if limiting her exposure to them actually protects her more. It certainly does right now during covid, in the physical sense. And if you had covid, I am glad you feel better and hope you fully recovered.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 19, 2020 19:26:26 GMT
Also, to add, drama only comes if you can't hold your boundaries. Otherwise, if you're not trapped in financial or logistical obligations, you can walk away from someone's tantrum.
And your brother-in-law is enabling your sister, which is his co-dependent choice. He knows how she treats him and accepts it as okay. That's also not something you can do anything about if he doesn't want to help himself, and I'm sure has a foundation in his own childhood, and will have very negative emotional impacts on his own children.
Multi-generational trauma cycles over and over if no one breaks their own contributions to it and heals. You can't heal others, but can heal yourself and help your own children and your own "next" generation.
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Post by seeking on Nov 20, 2020 15:47:57 GMT
Thanks everyone! I will respond more this weekend. Busy week.
But, for now, just wanted to say ...
And your brother-in-law is enabling your sister, which is his co-dependent choice. He knows how she treats him and accepts it as okay. That's also not something you can do anything about if he doesn't want to help himself, and I'm sure has a foundation in his own childhood, and will have very negative emotional impacts on his own children.
Yes. This! I have defended my brother in law COUNTLESS times. All the times she wants to make him the bad guy and I will literally pull her out of a weird divorce fantasy that she goes into.
I know he doesn't know this, and yet it still feels like a betrayal when he can't reasonably defend me to my sister. I.e., "Hey, she was really sick, and I think she just wanted to take precautions. Not hurt our children. It also sounds like she is going through a lot with her ex and the court case. Don't hold this against her." Boom. Done. Reality check.
But, you're right, NO ONE - stands up to my sister. And, if they do, they are the jerk.
My mother is the same. I've nearly stopped talking to my mother b/c over and over again she has made me the heartless bad guy (she will use the word "heartless" if I have a boundary). She will go babysit for my sister's kids while my sister has a NANNY AND A HUSBAND AT HOME and I'm struggling to work a job with a kid virtual, in a court case, health issues. It's wild.
I've also been treated by all of them like I have plague at times. Like my life is my fault and they want to steer clear and not be "infected" with my crazy. (Which is the work of healing family trauma - on both sides- my ex's and my own). Not that I can heal his. But just where my daughter is involved. And his family members continue to seek contact with us.
Anyway, my sister's oldest daughter has issues. And my sister won't go to therapy. She wants her kid to. Or her husband to. But she will not. And she'll say "Oh, S. is just like me. She'll be the same as me." And it's like, why not do something about that? You just accept that she avoids life and is scared of everything--at least her two other children seem relatively adapted and regulated and okay. But her oldest concerns me and I've tried to wake my sister up before by sharing concerns about her and of course she only got defensive, but yet she use to come to me all the time with her concerns.
Anyway, i think this is why I wanted to write to my sister AND my mom AND her husband. B/c it's like a triangulation thing and I'm in this sort of situation a lot. It happened with my ex and his new girlfriend. He was an abuser and a narc, and she joined forces WITH HIM and tried to destroy me and my daughter while others stood by and didn't want to get involved. This is the theme. I'm soo done with it.
Multi-generational trauma cycles over and over if no one breaks their own contributions to it and heals. You can't heal others, but can heal yourself and help your own children and your own "next" generation.
Examples of what this would look like? Like just a few sentences - pertaining to me or in general? I think I'm doing this work, but sometimes I'm in a blindspot.
I start my first online CodA meeting tomorrow.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 20, 2020 19:21:22 GMT
seeking, you're in therapy and have attachment awareness, you are already doing the work to try to break your cycle. It still takes a while, but you're doing the right things and are mid-process, and that's good. That's what you can do while keeping in mind that your family's terrible behavior does impact your child who is observing and receiving it. Have you looked into scapegoating? What you are describing is a very common dynamic in families with control issues and possible personality disorders like this. There's enablers, golden child(ren), scapegoat(s)... the roles can be arbitrarily assigned early in life but then stick forever because no one has the capacity to see you for who you really are. And they're comfortable stuck in this one-dimensional dynamic and playing it out forever and ever, unable to change their behavior or perception and further villainizing you if you deviate. This doesn't work without everyone enabling it, but it sounds to me like it's possible first you were assigned scapegoat and your sister assigned golden child during childhood, and now they're doubling-down to resist change as you are actually trying to grow past the dynamic (plus they don't want to and therefore can't change, so why would they expect anyone else to ever be different?). And once you've learned this it seems familiar, which may be why you've found yourself in the same dynamic with other sets of people in life. Whether or not it's obvious yet, I assure you, all your sister's kids will have issues sadly 😪 That's also how this generational trauma works. Kids getting emotionally abused while also not learning healthy senses of self or of relationships or stress coping mechanisms or boundaries. They don't know any differently and are conditioned to repeat the issues dumped on them by their adult caretakers, issues that were so normalized the next generation isn't even aware of what happened and that the trauma wasn't even their own originally and was dumped on them by older people stuck in the same loop for the same reasons.
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Post by seeking on Nov 21, 2020 2:22:43 GMT
my gosh, what a post alexandra. profound! thank you for this. i had some movement on this tonight in a journaling practice. will post more soon. thank you.
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Post by seeking on Nov 27, 2020 22:39:46 GMT
I don't know what to say about my sister.
I did a lot of journaling last Friday night and got to a place where I decided to just detach. I decided to go, stay in my own space, and just enjoy seeing my nieces, nephew, having a tradition for my daughter, and seeing my parents.
But then stuff came up about my dog. I realize she can't be direct or deal with things in non-emotional ways and is often a bit passive/aggressive. I tried to find a sitter last minute, bought a space heater (she's allergic and offered her garage). Then suddenly, she took it back and sent me photos of how stuffed her garage was, then told me her husband was upset.
At that point, I sent a text (group text) saying, simply, we can't make it but enjoy. And told my parents we could see them later that night or the next morning.
My mom calls and is confounded, and I say to my mom - look, this is what you do. You two make plans, don't consider me or my needs, and then act surprised when we can't come. So she offers to pick up my daughter - nice. Like thanks for just conveniently letting me know I don't matter and that you'd rather separate me and my daughter on Thanksgiving. So weird.
So I say, No my daughter wants to be with her mom on Thanksgiving. (As if I even need to spell that out). And then my mom bursts into tears.
I mean. The drama.
So I tell her not to put her emotions on me, go talk to my sister. Which she won't do??! Like why is this on me?
So I tell my daughter. She agrees my sister is being a jerk. She said our family is crazy. But she feels sad and wants to see her cousins. It didn't feel good. I didn't have food in my house, so now after a long day had to drive to the grocery store (we live pretty far from it) spend a bunch of money - try to get us nice stuff, then my sister texts with another idea. So I'm like sure, whatever, we can do that.
And -- this is a very familiar place to me but my emotional center (not my logical one) feels that "all is right in the world again" - like stuff makes sense. This is how I used to feel with my daughter's dad (who is a narc abuser) that when we were together and things were halfway "normal" the world would make sense. There is a "rightness" to being with the father of your child, a nuclear family, a sister, etc. Anything else feels really hard and like I have to make a ton of mental effort to not feel devastated, etc.
So I decide to go. I write my parents. I did actually feel like I wouldn't have minded staying here. I do think it would have been so much better for my heart, mind, body, soul. I do think I could have also sent my daughter, though that would have been a little weird... but I went.
That morning she texted that she fought with her husband all night and slept like 2 minutes. That's when I realized part of her issues are anxiety. I think she has a major anxiety disorder that is untreated and she refuses to get help for. She used to have OCD as a kid.... she is still like that in many ways. And needs control over everything.... so in that way, when I see/know her suffering, I can have some compassion.
I was able to share with my brother how sick I was back when I missed their kids party. I know my sister overheard, but they kept saying "well that's not a normal response to CV" - ?
I did mostly avoid. But it was hard. I felt uncomfortable. It's not homey or welcoming there.
She didn't ask me about my life. She never would. It's like there's this mutual understanding that she mostly hates me and we don't talk. But it's normalized? I can't explain it. I don't get it. She has no interest. It's like my ex.
Like there's a feeling I did something very wrong, but I'll never know what it is?
So at dinner, we went around to say things we were grateful for and I was shocked when she thanked her husband for all the work he did on their house. She lives in over-million dollar home and he pretty much ran out of money renovating it to her liking (all chemical free, etc). He looked like he was going to cry.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 28, 2020 19:25:55 GMT
seeking, I think you should feel really proud of yourself that you set boundaries with your mother and sister and spoke up about your needs. Especially telling your mom how plans generally didn't take your situation and feelings into consideration. How did doing those things and getting some sort of adjusted /negotiated outcome in response later on make you feel? I also think it's good you were having an honest conversation with your daughter about it. You don't want to put her in the middle or turn her against anyone, but it's important she has context for crappy behavior so she doesn't normalize it or blame herself. She sounds like a smart kid that she recognizes the family members have their own problems, but she'd still like to see her cousins. I don't think your sister hates you. I think she has very limited emotional capacity due to her own problems. At worst, she hates some concept of you that isn't real but is rather her own projections of her problems. But it's not actually about you, if that makes sense. I don't think you did anything wrong, but if your parents pit you against each other when you were younger or if you were treated as the "scapegoat" by family members, then yes, you likely were always treated like you did something wrong even though you didn't... which is why you'll never know what it is. The only way I know of to deal with that is creating your own self-acceptance: no matter what they think, you know you didn't do anything wrong and it is their problem. This isn't projecting or avoiding blame when it's objectively true. And THIS may be the most important thing you said: "And -- this is a very familiar place to me but my emotional center (not my logical one) feels that "all is right in the world again" - like stuff makes sense." This sounds like anxiety relief and connected to core issues and worth exploring. I don't think it's a coincidence that you say it's how you felt with your ex narc. This is that pre-conditioning you probably need to re-condition to get to a healthier place within yourself. To me, it sounds like, when you achieved the fantasy-bond concept of family and stability and getting your needs met, you got to take a sigh of relief that there was (still) an emotional connection there, even if it was not actually healthy.
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Post by seeking on Nov 29, 2020 15:14:52 GMT
seeking, I think you should feel really proud of yourself that you set boundaries with your mother and sister and spoke up about your needs. Especially telling your mom how plans generally didn't take your situation and feelings into consideration. How did doing those things and getting some sort of adjusted /negotiated outcome in response later on make you feel?
It definitely helped, but didn't feel particularly good. It's not like it changed anything - except for me. I decided as long as my parents are around, I will do holidays with them. But likely not with my sister. I will create my own traditions for me and my daughter, which I'm starting this weekend, actually. That's about as much interaction as she wants/deserves from me. I felt unwelcomed at her house, as I knew I would.
But telling them I wasn't taken into consideration felt good - it felt like that is where so much of my abusive relationships came from - I just let people walk all over me, and didn't assert myself, my needs. I feel like I've healed to even *notice* that they didn't consider us. That making that distinction felt healthy - whereas I used to just expect it.
I also think it's good you were having an honest conversation with your daughter about it. You don't want to put her in the middle or turn her against anyone, but it's important she has context for crappy behavior so she doesn't normalize it or blame herself. She sounds like a smart kid that she recognizes the family members have their own problems, but she'd still like to see her cousins.
I hope it was the right decision. Part of me was on the fence b/c she is, after all, only 11, and I don't want her to be a "parentified child" (whatever that even is) but it seems to help her to know what is going on.
Currently, half of my ex's family (who is no contact with him) are wanting to reconnect with my daughter - it's her paternal grandmother and two aunts (and one of the aunts 3 boys). It's a lot. Pretty overwhelming for me. But we've had to talk A LOT about families. And I keep telling her that my ex's one sister is "how family should be." And my daughter was SHOCKED. I said "Use her as your model." And told her our family is a mess, and some of the reasons why and how it never makes sense to take it personally.
We also talk openly about her dad and what he did (basically abandoned her) but not putting him down. Just like "Yeah, he didn't handle it in the best way." She basically says me and his sister (who just reconnected) are the only people in her family who are "normal"
But yeah, I didn't want to just stay home and not have her know why either. That used to happen to me as a kid and I'd have to glean bits and pieces, so I'd have really appreciated someone explaining things to me, although I supposed age-appropriate. Sometimes I think I treat her like an adult and she's just a kid...
She was basically able to say that my sister was being "jerky" and can't we just "go anyway" -
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Post by seeking on Dec 1, 2020 14:57:28 GMT
I started writing another long post, I forget about what now - been so busy here - but basically it got lost b/c I walked away from it. I think it was just to say that I don't think there is anything to go back to with my sister. I don't know if I mentioned the point where she snapped something and walked out of the room. Apparently she's been hanging on to the fact that I had a lot of PTSD around my father to the point where I couldn't be around him. She was "triggered" by this she told me. (?)
She was triggered by my PTSD - makes no sense.
So b/c of the pandemic, I did a family constellation with my father (never having done one) and within less than a month, we had a relationship again - which was AMAZING to me. I was so relieved. I stopped shaking around him, etc.
But my sister - who did get our family trauma or my dad's past abuse.... had one all along. And when he got stress-related illness from the start of the pandemic she would reach out to me - and I was maxed out. I had told them what I thought it was (this is what I do for a living) and they didn't want to listen, and I had nothing left (at the beginning of the pandemic) to caretake everyone. I had a boundary - hard as it was.
But I was in my own survival mode (my sister had a husband at home paying all the bills).
Anyway, so she still holds it against me and said "Well good now that you HEALED your relationship with DAD when I was the one taking care of him when he was sick. Then YOU talk to him." and stormed out of the room.
??
What does one even say to that?
Anyway, this is a bit piecemeal b/c I haven't had much time, but basically what I feel left with is a "nowhere to go from here" situation. So I'm going through the motions to do Christmas, but I am starting our own traditions. My kid will survive. Not what I would have wanted for her - but I know that I can't do much with my sister at this point. And with all that she is hanging on to - all the ways I apparently wronged her without even knowing I did, all the resentment, and then not even trying to work things out - (or I guess an email she sent a while back about how she has to protect her kids from me - still not sure what to say to that either). There really isn't a conversation, room for repair, my "side" of things, etc.
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Post by seeking on Dec 1, 2020 15:01:52 GMT
I don't think your sister hates you. I think she has very limited emotional capacity due to her own problems. At worst, she hates some concept of you that isn't real but is rather her own projections of her problems.
This makes sense.
I think she's a victim of me.
I think I'm not the sister she wanted.
I think I don't bring her enough 'value'/serve a purpose
I think I can't be real b/c she uses me as a barometer for her own health i.e., we have the same genes, so when I got really sick back in 2015, instead of having compassion for me, she made it about her. And she still does. So if I'm not "healed" that means bad news for her.... and so if I have a problem (like how I was with my dad, it triggers her).
I'm sure there's more.
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Post by seeking on Dec 3, 2020 20:29:26 GMT
And THIS may be the most important thing you said: "And -- this is a very familiar place to me but my emotional center (not my logical one) feels that "all is right in the world again" - like stuff makes sense." This sounds like anxiety relief and connected to core issues and worth exploring. I don't think it's a coincidence that you say it's how you felt with your ex narc. This is that pre-conditioning you probably need to re-condition to get to a healthier place within yourself. T
Wow, there is a lot to unpack here.
I'm curious what pre-conditioning is - meaning like early life? my parents?
How does one "re-condition"?
To me, it sounds like, when you achieved the fantasy-bond concept of family and stability and getting your needs met, you got to take a sigh of relief that there was (still) an emotional connection there, even if it was not actually healthy.
So this is a big question, but how does one heal from this? Like even in the most simplest of ways?
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Post by alexandra on Dec 17, 2020 23:32:12 GMT
Hi seeking, how's the rest of the holiday season been treating you? I'm curious what pre-conditioning is - meaning like early life? my parents? How does one "re-condition"?
To me, it sounds like, when you achieved the fantasy-bond concept of family and stability and getting your needs met, you got to take a sigh of relief that there was (still) an emotional connection there, even if it was not actually healthy.So this is a big question, but how does one heal from this? Like even in the most simplest of ways? Pre-conditioning, in this case, meant you're used to a certain dynamic that was present in your family. You were treated a certain way, kind of no matter what you did, and you learned what your "role" was as a child to get along in the easiest and least painful way. So when you encounter people with similar issues as an adult, it feels familiar and probably comfortable in a way (even if it's a somewhat painful way), and you either easily fall into that role OR perhaps you unconsciously seek out the dynamic in an attempt to see if you can then change or fix it. The reconditioning starts with recognizing it. One thing that may help is putting your thoughts about your experience together and writing your narrative. Putting adult words to the feelings and experiences to understand and take control of the story of what happened to you. This can work in tandem with other work towards earning secure... being able to put the words to your experience so you can start to talk about it, figure out and connect to what needs you as a child didn't have met but you as an adult can meet yourself now ("re-parenting" yourself), and practicing affirmation and acceptance in the sense of things aren't like they are in your fantasy version, and that's okay. You're okay, with you and your daughter. There are some threads on this forum that mention re-parenting and shadow work may be worth a search. |
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Post by seeking on Dec 18, 2020 14:11:31 GMT
Thanks, Alexandra. I've been really busy but have had some huge impactful changes here overall.
I did a family constellation the other night with my sister as the focus, but it related to so much else, and it was really helpful.
I actually do not feel like I want a partner right now. I have so much personal change happening and so much deep, rich stuff I would like to look at and be present to in my life - including a training I was just accepted into, my own therapy, healing some physical health issues, and my writing - men feel like a real distraction and like no one can really connect in the way I want. So until a more soulful connection comes along, I can't really see spending time online and talking to guys, etc. etc.
So I guess people can have romantic partnership fantasy bonds - if I understand it correctly, then the relationship is all based on fantasy - not reality. I think that is how I stayed with my ex and, I'm wondering if it's how his girlfriend stays with him. He is truly a nightmare. He has so many unresolved issues and mental illness, I don't know how he can be in a relationship and keep having kids with someone (who already has kids) and be a father to many as such a truly sick individual - and the only way is, I imagine, as a "role" he plays - and then a lot of fantasy and projection?
Or maybe there is more trauma bonding there. I don't know if I know the difference.
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