First post, want collective community insight

That sounds like more then attachment issues going on.  Was she diagnosed with BPD or are you just trying to determine the potential root of her outbursts?  I am FA earning secure and have dated several FAs and have never experienced what you are describing.

Thank you both for the replies.

No, she was not diagnosed as BPD, and the attachment style was verified through online testing, to a high degree. Technically, BPD is like a more severe form of FA attachment... same spectrum. So yes, I was trying to better understand the root of her outbursts. They were definitely aimed AT ME, very likely not from another person as a trigger in the present moment, such as work or friends. I was the trigger, definitely... but it was out of nowhere, so obviously emotional flashbacks from the past bubbling up. So maybe not as much "I" was the trigger, but just the target of the anger. I remember a quote, that anger "needs" a target... it stuck with me. And yes, it's complicated, sadly she had a very difficult childhood from many angles. I only have empathy (and boundaries!). ;-)

But this was why I was wondering, having only had fairly healthy relationships this was new to me, and if strong FA/DA behavior would have such verbal outbursts to "push away" and deactivate, because I couldn't find a lot of information about such strong language. I didn't take it personally but it was definitely abusive. Thais has hinted in some of her videos about her past FA attachment, and saying "mean" things in the past to partners, but she hasn't gone into detail so I don't know how bad it was, and honestly... still seems she holds on to a bit of guilt/shame about it, despite being somewhat open about it.

Alexandra, regarding the ADHD... I find Gabor Mate's work and theory around ADHD being caused by childhood trauma interesting, fyi.

If you want some funny examples:

I went on a walk and picked some flowers, brought them home to her apartment and put them in a glass vase she had. She walks in the room, and says "Why did you use that vase, it's so ugly." That's it... no gratitude, nothing about the flowers.

She shut down for a few weeks and was pulled back. I still told her every day that I loved her, supporting her. One day we were talking and she said, "yes I haven't said I love you in a while... I just didn't feel like it. I guess, not every day with you is special."

I could go on... but the crazy thing is that I know she had strong feelings for me, wanted to build a future, etc... and we did click on many levels as people. I think it's just a cluster of deep traumatic wounds, no matter the technical "diagnosis", one of those ironic situations where the stronger someone feels for or likes someone, the more there is to lose, the deeper the unconscious fears and sabotage, and the stronger the defenses against loss and rejection. It was a wild ride, and the craziest year of my life. :-)

Just for context, I’m FA and I control the mean things that come out of my mouth very well. I know they will end a relationship, so I don’t do them, but I distance in other ways. There is plenty of overlap between different personality disorders (what are they called now - cluster B), and attachment trauma is involved in all of them, no doubt. Whether a person has a personality disorder, is up to their doctor to diagnose, and whether the recovery is possible, I think there is. If you read these boards, some people have been on here for years and have literally changed their thought patterns and behavior 180 degrees. But the nuance is that they recognized their patterns and wanted to change in their own. They put in enormous work to do so, paid a lot of money to therapists and faithfully went.

This is typical, and it's often dissociation. So, I believe it is true.


Fully earning secure is possible from any attachment style. It just takes possibly years of concerted effort and statistically it's unlikely that people will want to make the investment (research says 25% of adults change attachment styles at some point in their lives, and there's no breakdown of how many of those are getting more insecure and shifting that way versus how many are earning secure, though my educated guess is more people changing earn secure than shift into a different insecure style).

So asi was thinking about this more.....I don’t lash out at people I care for because I tend to lean more anxious...however....for many, many years I had a pretty bad case of road rage.....getting really pissed at other drivers for driving too slow or not using a signal....and I can correlate these back to moments after I visited my mom.  I think for me....lashing out was a form of gaining back equilibrium....it wasn’t ok to get mad at mom....so whenever I felt embarrassed or shamed...it would press forward...I called them my “ripples”.  Do you know if she had a painful relationship with a family member?  Did these outbursts ever come at a time after she had spent time with or was talking to that person?  I think there is something to be said about not being mirrored a secure way to deal with emotions...meaning, if your parent or parents lash out as a form of dealing with things...then that is what you learn as acceptable behavior.  Put another way....insecure attachment is a toolbox without the right tools...learned at a very young age.

Side note,.....I love Gabor mate.  I think his approach to addiction is brilliant.  Have you read in the realm of hungry ghosts?  I so want to read it.

In the moment they feel like the most intense self hatred. That I hate myself so much that the most hurtful things about the other person that I say are really what I feel inside about me. As time and therapy has passed and I actually do let a lot more things out. I actually let more things out than I ever did as a proper FA as I no longer fear abandonment. I speak my mind since day one of my recovery, and at about 6 months mark of my therapy, that I was finally serious about, the things I say I are 100% stand by now and yet I’m sure I’m more insufferable since I always speak the truth now. I actually do let out more of it, but it’s not as terrible I think. I’ve changed my ways of thinking and in ways of thinking so I don’t really recount how I was as a proper FA. But in essence it was a lot of self denial and self hatred. Whereas as now I really do enjoy myself and my life, but I don’t think I’m as sweet and as nice as I actually used to be. I’m probable more abrasive to people now, and yet I’m having a great time.

I believe maybe that’s also that small distinction between the FA and DA. FA keeps others is higher regard than themselves and DAs keeps others is lower regard than themselves. So I think the FA still stays more in the inner critic territory vs DA perceives the self criticism as more external. I think an FA may be more aware of some of these feelings and where they are coming from vs a DA really externalizes them and projects them as criticism coming from others. Both feel the intense feelings and lack of self love and fear abandonment, but perhaps FA is a little bit more in touch with their origin.

I’ve dated a couple DAs back to back and the projections were rampant. And when I got through to them and broke down what was happening and how it was affecting me both these men actual broke down sobbing, so there was some awareness all along but as their coping mechanism perhaps they were also in more denial.

I often wonder about what exact trauma affects the child and how they cope and what strategy they end up adapting. And what strategy I adapted as opposed to my sister for example. Once I started exploring all these questions in therapy, I was able to rather quickly move past a lot of residual traumas or compounded traumas from narcissistic/ codependent romantic relationships I’ve had. A lot of the self compassion I was able to extend to my young self automatically applied to my adult traumas that I subjected myself by extension. I believe the healing is quite progressive once you’re on that path.

Abandonment for example is not even something I think about much at all, or feel or fear ever anymore. I still have stress responses I would like to work on. When I’m under pressure or stressed I still tend to feel like I’m regressing, I lose some of the maturity and go back into a more of a childlike black and white thinking mode. Mostly black, dark feeling of inadequacy. But even now I rarely lash out right in that state. In that state it’s almost like I shut down into a freeze response (always have done so).

But because I’m now more outspoken I do not get into bad feeling situations as often as I used to. Because I communicate my discontent or fear or what have you, and I don’t fear anyone abandoning me I’m less likely to fall in that rabbit hole altogether, it seems.

I’ve also haven’t had a romantic relationship for a year and a half now, with an exception of a few dates with one person earlier in the year, who was most likely an FA or DA as well and I cut the relationship short quickly recognizing a pattern, so I don’t even know how I would be in a relationship and whether it would be triggering. I keep stalling dating as I really feel like I’m not going to be “in love” like I used to be ever again. I will not crush on people like I did or abandon my own self like I did in relationships. Right now it seems like a completely uncharted territory, to date as the person I am now. The person I dated earlier this year did in a typical DA fashion re-surface months later and I was triggered, but got over it within a day or two.

Sometimes I wonder if I’ve turned into a DA or if I’m growing more secure. Because while I feel safe, I am outspoken, I often feel confident, competent, and happy, I also often still feel and am very insecure, when triggered or stressed. And I wonder if my avoiding a romantic relationship is a DA self preservation tactic.