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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2021 4:40:08 GMT
This is so true. I wouldn't characterize the relationship I am in as a trap, as each of us is making personal growth a priority now that the honeymoon phase is over and the real stuff begins. Of the two of us, my SO (I'm avoidant, I haven't a full understanding of his type although protest behaviors ring true) has been slower to recognize his destructive patterns and also, to his credit, recognize that they exist in him independent of me- meaning he cannot blame them on me as he recognizes long standing patterns. He's finally opening up some boxes to go through his own stuff, his own childhood, his own maladaptive behaviors. I'd also add to this- that hyper focus on the relationship is NOT the same as self awareness..and it isn't love it's preoccupation. Codependency isn't love it's control. I'm not wanting to bash anybody here at all, I'm just adding my perspective to this. Self awareness ultimately should lead to humility in my opinion, which is different from shame. Different from self blame. That kind of gentler acceptance of oneself, I think, leads to the ability to see the other side without vilifying or blaming. I do agree that the preoccupation and hyper focus is not love....I will call it a nervous system in overdrive without a way to self sooth...but man it feels like love...and Hollywood does not do AP or AP leaning FAs any service with these insecure relationships that work out in the end. I think I know what you mean, because I have experienced "dismissive style" limmerance. Thais Gibson describes it. It feels like a high almost? But that was all in fantasy, not at all in a real relationship. And I agree... the love story that's told from children's cartoons on, it's so ridiculous. I fell for an Old West version where the love was actually Utility and everything was smooth as long as each partner worked hard and was respectful. That was my version. Didn't work out haha. Relationships are hard work. I think the most important purpose for them is growth. They don't always feel good. Although it sure is nice when they do. |
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dc
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Post by dc on Jun 9, 2021 9:26:52 GMT
tnr9 , sorry if I had come across as singling out or attacking FAs, I had hoped my original post had cleared up why I had posted about this particular attachment. Perhaps I should have posted on another section, then? I also view this board as a wonderful resource for all - so posting here would help also others maybe recognize patterns in themselves more effectively or help people moving toward secure make more informed dating choices.
No...this is the right section. For me, calling out the fact that this thread is triggering...but not going down a rabbits hole with it is actually a great improvement for me. Speaking to my fears and issues is part of being my own advocate. What was just so fascinating is that I was really, really feeling this need to defend myself...but more so...my mom....who is FA and my brother who is FA as well. I haven’t felt that deep defensive need in quite a while so it was surprising to feel it coming through in this thread. I am an HSP on top of being an AP leaning FA so I tend to feel things very deeply. I understand the desire to learn what traits to be aware of...but I agree with krolle that there are sometimes other factors at play....for instance the last guy I dated had ADHD so some of what I thought were traits of FA were actually his ADHD behaviors coming through. I have ADHD and after watching a Thais Gibson video on "high functioning FA's" I realised just how many of my ADHD behaviours were exactly as described on that video, it's just that my traits are lesser than full blown FA (IME). I'm not emotionally regulated so I can have extremely intense feelings then become terrified and pull away because the lows are unimaginable pain. I don't swing to polar extremes or "deactivate", but I definitely take steps back and forth which could appear as FA. |
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Post by maryisback on Jun 13, 2021 4:29:03 GMT
So many "signs" mentioned here could be attributed to certain personality traits, other reasons, etc. The only way to "see" or recognize FA, DA etc is to become more secure yourself. Looking for "signs" is futile and will only show you your own insecurity.
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Post by mrob on Jun 18, 2021 12:45:24 GMT
So many "signs" mentioned here could be attributed to certain personality traits, other reasons, etc. The only way to "see" or recognize FA, DA etc is to become more secure yourself. Looking for "signs" is futile and will only show you your own insecurity. I’d absolutely agree. Partners have shown me exactly who I am by the way they’ve acted naturally. However, my initial reason for being here was that I had acted out so wildly. I could see it was a patterning I knew I didn’t want to repeat it. I’d had enough. Nobody could tell me what on Earth was going on, then I found Jeb’s “bad boyfriends” book. I saw myself and it was very painful. Initially I couldn’t believe what secure people took as read, and how it was very different to my background. I’ve been out with all types along this journey, and can spot an insecurely attached person after very little contact with pretty good accuracy, romantic or otherwise. |
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Post by fullmoonrising on Jun 19, 2021 15:20:36 GMT
As an FA it starts as a fairy tale. Stakes are very low and your bodies are going through the chemical high of feeling connected and together.
In my past 2 relationships, correction, situationships, which only lasted 4 and most recently 3 months, I find myself exhibiting the following patterns which kills the intimacy.
1. If things are going fine, with no conflict, I will invite drama by poking at my partner to get a reaction.
2. I will decline invitations places to meet their friends and family early on.
3. I will distance myself by not texting daily and seeing how they are.
Even those these are very obscured, it is death for me by 1000 cuts, where they are just fed up with my bullshit and move on without me having to get emotionally involved.
It is only when they are gone that my emotions really come out, as that is telling me it was not love, but an attachment I had to them.
I understand these toxic behaviors now and am taking the proper steps by working with a professional to get to my issues so that I can live a fulfilled life.
I don't want to be like this and hate myself for these bad behaviors.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 19, 2021 16:34:54 GMT
As an FA it starts as a fairy tale. Stakes are very low and your bodies are going through the chemical high of feeling connected and together. In my past 2 relationships, correction, situationships, which only lasted 4 and most recently 3 months, I find myself exhibiting the following patterns which kills the intimacy. 1. If things are going fine, with no conflict, I will invite drama by poking at my partner to get a reaction. 2. I will decline invitations places to meet their friends and family early on. 3. I will distance myself by not texting daily and seeing how they are. Even those these are very obscured, it is death for me by 1000 cuts, where they are just fed up with my bullshit and move on without me having to get emotionally involved. It is only when they are gone that my emotions really come out, as that is telling me it was not love, but an attachment I had to them. I understand these toxic behaviors now and am taking the proper steps by working with a professional to get to my issues so that I can live a fulfilled life. I don't want to be like this and hate myself for these bad behaviors. Please do not hate yourself…all these reactions and tests are about protecting yourself against feeling overwhelmed or feeling abandoned….and they started a very long time ago…back when you were a child and did not have any other tools in your toolbox. Instead of being angry….can you be curious? Why would you test someone by acting out when things are good? For me, it was a “will you love me now?” “What about now?” It is because I never experienced unconditional love that I wanted to see if there was a limit to what my partner would love about me. Does that align with your experience? I truly think the behaviors of someone with an FA attachment are all about self protection when it was critical to protect against the disappointment, anger, neglect, hurt of an insecure parent. It is good you are aware…now the journey begins to add more tools to your toolbox. |
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Post by blacksnow2 on Jun 29, 2021 3:17:06 GMT
Inconsistencies. They'll be different people depending on the day and say contradicting things + act in contradicting ways. Sometimes they're open, other times disconnected and closed off. It can even change by the minute because they have so many triggers.
They aren't good actors.
With APs and DAs, you'll get more consistent 'energy' so to speak. FAs are confused, so you'll get a bag of mixed shit.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 29, 2021 9:51:45 GMT
Inconsistencies. They'll be different people depending on the day and say contradicting things + act in contradicting ways. Sometimes they're open, other times disconnected and closed off. It can even change by the minute because they have so many triggers. They aren't good actors. With APs and DAs, you'll get more consistent 'energy' so to speak. FAs are confused, so you'll get a bag of mixed shit. I don’t know that I agree….I always was the AP leaning FA with more DA leaning partners…in fact, for many decades I thought I was AP because none of DA type behaviors were exhibited in me until I hit a 3 year mark. Once I felt the relationship was stable….that is when I would start finding fault and pulling away. Now, the last DA leaning guy I dated was absolutely how you described above…so I never felt in a state of stability with him. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 13:16:40 GMT
Inconsistencies. They'll be different people depending on the day and say contradicting things + act in contradicting ways. Sometimes they're open, other times disconnected and closed off. It can even change by the minute because they have so many triggers. They aren't good actors. With APs and DAs, you'll get more consistent 'energy' so to speak. FAs are confused, so you'll get a bag of mixed shit. I don’t know that I agree….I always was the AP leaning FA with more DA leaning partners…in fact, for many decades I thought I was AP because none of DA type behaviors were exhibited in me until I hit a 3 year mark. Once I felt the relationship was stable….that is when I would start finding fault and pulling away. Now, the last DA leaning guy I dated was absolutely how you described above…so I never felt in a state of stability with him. The stuff that anne posts in her healing threads says that it's an AP thing to leave after the relationship becomes stable, commonly around 2.5 years. So that's not necessarily a DA trait. I think most people do have a mix of styles and they will be triggered to the top depending on the dynamic created by their interactions with the other person. Inconsistency is apparent in all of them though, in my opinion. |
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 29, 2021 13:18:57 GMT
I don’t know that I agree….I always was the AP leaning FA with more DA leaning partners…in fact, for many decades I thought I was AP because none of DA type behaviors were exhibited in me until I hit a 3 year mark. Once I felt the relationship was stable….that is when I would start finding fault and pulling away. Now, the last DA leaning guy I dated was absolutely how you described above…so I never felt in a state of stability with him. The stuff that anne posts in her healing threads says that it's an AP thing to leave after the relationship becomes stable, commonly around 2.5 years. So that's not necessarily a DA trait. I think most people do have a mix of styles and they will be triggered to the top depending on the dynamic created by their interactions with the other person. Inconsistency is apparent in all of them though, in my opinion. Good point Introvert |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 13:59:14 GMT
Here's a good article that goes through some key points to consider when dating, to assess the health of your connection. There's one thing that I got lucky on, that's mentioned.... it's the point of a more extroverted partner bringing me out of my shell. 😜 BUT, for myself personally, I can say that I have opened up to people, and social situations more in this relationship, and have made an effort independent of him to get in the mix so to speak. So obviously not everything here is a hard and fast rule, but I think it's generally great advice. It's a good thing to ask yourself while reading- is this an area where I myself need to develop? Overall a good way to open contemplation about oneself and relationships of all kinds, really. medium.com/personal-growth/7-signs-youre-dating-an-emotionally-immature-adult-52fcbee7701b |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 29, 2021 14:15:59 GMT
The stuff that anne posts in her healing threads says that it's an AP thing to leave after the relationship becomes stable, commonly around 2.5 years. So that's not necessarily a DA trait. I've thought about this one over the years, since that's about as long as my insecure relationships lasted, and I don't think it's about APs leaving stable relationships. I actually think this is more likely to refer to / predict how long it takes the anxious-avoidant trap relationships between two unaware insecures to break. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 14:43:14 GMT
The stuff that anne posts in her healing threads says that it's an AP thing to leave after the relationship becomes stable, commonly around 2.5 years. So that's not necessarily a DA trait. I've thought about this one over the years, since that's about as long as my insecure relationships lasted, and I don't think it's about APs leaving stable relationships. I actually think this is more likely to refer to / predict how long it takes the anxious-avoidant trap relationships between two unaware insecures to break. I think what is commonly referred to as "stable" in this case isn't referring to "healthy". For instance, Jeb also writes about the long term "stability" of the anxious avoidant trap- its stable as in both partners are locked in, but not stable in terms of security. There is the argument that a lot of these insecure dynamics continue for decades. I'd have to know more about this to be able to have an opinion not based solely on that of others... but the idea of longing comes in to play- the argument is that if an AP is unaware of their deep narrative of "I long but cannot get", then in order to maintain their own pattern they would create a self fulfilling prophecy; that seems to be the ultimate outcome of all insecure attachers. Unconsciously continue the cycle. |
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Post by krolle on Jun 29, 2021 18:36:57 GMT
Inconsistencies. They'll be different people depending on the day and say contradicting things + act in contradicting ways. Sometimes they're open, other times disconnected and closed off. It can even change by the minute because they have so many triggers. They aren't good actors. With APs and DAs, you'll get more consistent 'energy' so to speak. FAs are confused, so you'll get a bag of mixed shit. Sounds like me. I'm going to have that put on my headstone when I die lol. "Here lies Krolle, he was a mixed bag of shit" lol |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2021 18:56:54 GMT
As I read along, it seems like FA's run hot and cold, and DA run lukewarm and off. And krolle, @blacksnow, you're not a mixed bag of shit you're a mixed bag of hopes. Hoping you will be able to connect, hoping you'll be safe, hoping this will be better this time.... that's a lot of hope and when there is fear involved the stakes are high and all the hopes are dashed one by one. But not for lack of trying, with limited resources. I guess I just hurt a little to see self deprecation if not coming from a place of having healed up true pain you're having and come to the other side. Sorry if I made it too heavy, but I just want you to remember to be kind to yourselves. I could be wrong on the hope thing but that's what it looks like to me. So this is very sad, and worthy of a lot of compassion. Sure, we all get irritated or even downright angry with each other's misguided attempts to connect that are dysfunctional, but you two have been here expressing your wounds and you guys take enough of a beating without adding to the chorus. Carry on, introvert is just having a feely moment 👀 |
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