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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 4:37:40 GMT
As evident from my last post, my last relationship was with an FA. I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to that thread here once more. Thankfully, I am at a place where I have fully accepted the break as a learning experience for both myself and ex-partner, and I am making good progress with the grief/healing process.
As I move forward I want to be more informed and so, as the title says, I am hoping to hear your input to be more perceptive. While I could instead research this heavily instead, I think adding to your community for visitors and newer members to read and interact with the content is a better option.
Unfortunately I notice that fearful avoidants are fairly common in men I encountered online or through blind dates set up by friends in the past, and so I found it most pertinent to post on this section of the forum.
I am perceptive enough to recognize some signs of insecurity in terms of attachment overall, but your thoughts to help me be more effective with my dating choices in the future when I am willing to date again are much needed and most welcome.
If it is useful (for both lurkers and discussion), here is what I notice with early signs of how I might pinpoint a plausible FA attachment:
-Very much more eager to meet and text than I am (almost going too fast, this includes attempts to initiate sexual contact)
-Very very flirty, and playful, especially when more heavy topics are at hand
-An underlying sense that they are feeling anxious to appear "perfect" during dates, and/or trouble performing sexually
-Quick to agree with me or change their opinions to suit mine
-Chatty, but usually about more general topics or sometimes on the other end of the spectrum, too open about insecurities/past trauma very (too) early on in the dating phase
Connected to the above point, they also most of the time divert attention to me through a lot of piercing questions and preferring to listen vs. talk
Of course this all slows down over a very short period of time, and then I notice more of a shame when any vulnerability is shown to me etc. (including in sexual contexts) as well as more negativity in self expression compared to the more polished and overly positive attitude earlier on.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 1, 2021 10:38:27 GMT
As evident from my last post, my last relationship was with an FA. I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to that thread here once more. Thankfully, I am at a place where I have fully accepted the break as a learning experience for both myself and ex-partner, and I am making good progress with the grief/healing process.
As I move forward I want to be more informed and so, as the title says, I am hoping to hear your input to be more perceptive. While I could instead research this heavily instead, I think adding to your community for visitors and newer members to read and interact with the content is a better option.
Unfortunately I notice that fearful avoidants are fairly common in men I encountered online or through blind dates set up by friends in the past, and so I found it most pertinent to post on this section of the forum.
I am perceptive enough to recognize some signs of insecurity in terms of attachment overall, but your thoughts to help me be more effective with my dating choices in the future when I am willing to date again are much needed and most welcome.
If it is useful (for both lurkers and discussion), here is what I notice with early signs of how I might pinpoint a plausible FA attachment:
-Very much more eager to meet and text than I am (almost going too fast, this includes attempts to initiate sexual contact)
-Very very flirty, and playful, especially when more heavy topics are at hand
-An underlying sense that they are feeling anxious to appear "perfect" during dates, and/or trouble performing sexually
-Quick to agree with me or change their opinions to suit mine
-Chatty, but usually about more general topics or sometimes on the other end of the spectrum, too open about insecurities/past trauma very (too) early on in the dating phase
Connected to the above point, they also most of the time divert attention to me through a lot of piercing questions and preferring to listen vs. talk
Of course this all slows down over a very short period of time, and then I notice more of a shame when any vulnerability is shown to me etc. (including in sexual contexts) as well as more negativity in self expression compared to the more polished and overly positive attitude earlier on.
Interesting.....I am an AP leaning FA female...so I recognize some of the behavior above...but in me...but I also saw some of these in B. FA is a result of trauma...it creates a lose/lose dynamic....the swinging between hope and fear is a result of that trauma. So yes....initially....someone with an FA attachment may come across very much like someone who is AP and then switch to behaving more along the lines of a DA because of internal signals that warn that a person is too close (fear of engulfment) or too far away (fear of abandonment). Understanding that dynamic, anything that is too much initially is a good sign that the person is insecure. Also...if my own reaction is more then what I deem is appropriate for that stage of dating....it is a sign to me that I am falling into an insecure dynamic. |
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Post by annieb on Jun 1, 2021 14:50:01 GMT
I’m FA female and this is a list of behaviors I have myself exhibited in dating and also experienced with other insecures, who all swung in all different ways after the relationship was becoming real.
Love bombing and saying I love you very early in the relationship, sometimes even before dating has begun (the last FA male I went out with is someone I work with and he had been saying he loved me for two years). I myself felt love for him quickly as well and fell into an anxious avoidant rapid cycling trap with him. This is recent and after all kinds of therapy and reflection. My emotions were all over the place and bipolar. I experienced strong repulsion to him that cycled through strong “love”. This is the first indicator now that I’m in the trap - strong sense of rejection, cycling through strong love, cycling through strong repulsion and avoidance.
Being very helpful and emphatic and helping you with a situation, advice, instead of taking about how you both are relating to one another. In some ways it feels almost condescending. But really it’s a defense mechanism. I’ve done this and FA and DA men have done this. When I asked a DA man what he wanted in a relationship with me going forward he said he wanted to help with advice, that’s it. And I myself I’m a very “helpful” person. And will often neglect my needs to help the new boyfriend. Watch for that. Watch for men who want to spend an hour giving advice.
Humor is a big one, a big defense mechanism. So tread lightly with people who make jokes all the time.
Watch how they approach you. Is it a direct hey I want to take you out or is it more if an over time slow and hesitant approach, maybe through social media, and especially the men you meet on dating apps. Some of them are slower at the beginning and very cautious and hesitant and may appear uninterested. Once they meet you they will be very eager and then the silliest thing like you left your phone off and didn’t get their text will set them off. Or a request of some sort. Defining the relationship in the most innocent way. Even using I statements, so to speak.
Insecure behaviors are really easy to spot. I sometimes wonder what it is that I give off that attracts avoidant men in droves. And they’ve told me, it’s my openness and kindness, they don’t feel judged. That is until I’m done manipulating them with my kindness, and request something of them. I recognize that as FA my MO in life in general is usually openness and kindness, I feel that it I serve the world I need to be that way. I go through great lengths to manage my anxiety and anger so that I can be kind in my interactions with others in the world. But that’s also a defense mechanism of mine. And the last FA man had that same persona. In fact at work we are often compared and paired together because of our work personas .
Often times in this forum and more and more in life I drop this kindness because it really is a manipulation. And it’s not genuine. So watch for these super kind and sweet men. They may not be able to keep it up 24/7 and will disappear into abyss trying to hide the real them. I do the same, I need a lot of introverted recovery time to be this extroverted smiling person. Although with recovery I’m very outspoken and I’ve overcome a lot of this, when in a budding relationship it all comes crashing back.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 1, 2021 16:00:18 GMT
The easiest way to recognize insecure attachment of any style is inconsistency over time. Words don't always match actions which may not match feelings. Communication and boundaries are usually also bad when this happens.
But consider that healthier dating is to give you a chance to assess compatibility before commitment, a time to stay open to learning about who the person is before jumping into getting attached. Yes, beware of lovebombing, of feeling instant sparks (which may actually just be anxiety or trauma-bonding, your old wounds being activated in an overwhelm way that feels like attraction), and of moving at a speed which doesn't feel right to you (too fast emotionally or too slow like you need to pursue). But mainly you can't go wrong in keeping open to them showing you who they are over time while not tolerating inconsistency. Then you can focus on dating as a way to build a connection over time instead of being hypervigilant for clues and seeking out negative traits to "protect" yourself from being abandoned after you're attached. It requires a bit of a perspective shift so that you're approaching the other person with less fear and vigilance (because no matter what happens it's okay because you won't abandon yourself), but it'll be a really helpful one.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 16:59:02 GMT
Nice to see this has started a discussion, thank you for all your responses! annieb, come to think of it I've also noticed this need to push down anger or any negative emotions and appear kind and friendly as well. An ex described it as "a lifestyle of positivity", when actually he was pretty pessimistic with things most of the time, including his own capabilities. Do you think this is especially connected to why connections fail and deactivation occurs with an underlying sense that one is not "good enough" or I would not like them if I "really knew" them, as they struggle to maintain the facade? I've noticed this with both a past FA partner and an FA friend. Also, do you think this could be an unconscious pattern? It was very interesting to see you label it as manipulation outright. I especially like alexandra's quote "no matter what happens it's okay because you won't abandon yourself", very true! As for tnr9, I usually have seen a hard shift to DA behaviors when the other party has resolved that their "emotional tank" has run out. As in, they are already triggered and in deactivation. Otherwise the push-pull is very brief (hours or one day tops) and the withdrawal explained away with work, family commitments, etc. and they try to frantically "repair" their absence.
Coincidentally, a person I'd went out on one date with and noticed these patterns with has contacted me today. I was pretty firm with boundaries and about why we would not be a good match if I ever want to start dating again.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 1, 2021 17:40:43 GMT
An ex described it as "a lifestyle of positivity", when actually he was pretty pessimistic with things most of the time, including his own capabilities. Do you think this is especially connected to why connections fail and deactivation occurs with an underlying sense that one is not "good enough" or I would not like them if I "really knew" them, as they struggle to maintain the facade? I've noticed this with both a past FA partner and an FA friend. Also, do you think this could be an unconscious pattern? It was very interesting to see you label it as manipulation outright. It really depends on awareness. It can be unconscious, manipulative, or both. There's a basis in an FA's needs being ignored, dismissed, or punished in childhood. In a scary or chaotic household, adults likely don't know how to deal with conflict in a healthy way so negativity or disagreement may have been met with shame or punishment. This is a double whammy: a kid both doesn't learn healthy ways of dealing with conflict or feeling stress / distress, and tries to find other ways to get around the negative feelings they aren't allowed to express. This might be fawning (agreeing with everything just to keep the peace), it might be disassociating to ignore the bad feelings, it might be rejecting the self altogether and coming up with a kind of false self that is more pleasing to the adults (or whoever) and provides an extra benefit of the FA then can't be painfully rejected for real because no one is seeing the real them. There's other dysfunctional learned coping mechanisms possible too, this isn't an exhaustive list. Yes, it can be a manipulative way to get needs met because it was all that actually seemed to work, but it's not necessarily consciously or bad-intentioned manipulation. But it is still dysfunction, and when the FA is an adult, it gets in the way of mature connections instead of protecting the FA and assisting in getting needs met as the tactics did as a child. It's unfortunate, and often reflects within the FA their shame, intentional disconnection from self at one point that became so natural it's not even conscious anymore, difficulty reconnecting to self and accurately reading their own feelings and needs, rejection of self if things are less than perfect, and need to be in control of their environment (even if it's a facade and not really controlled... magical thinking and life of positivity is a rejection of reality in some ways though that can make it very difficult to confront and solve real problems). What may also be helpful for you to understand is AP and the anxious side of FA consciously fear abandonment and unconsciously fear engulfment. DA and the avoidant side of FA consciously fear engulfment and unconsciously fear abandonment. FA fluctuate between which fears they feel and can connect with consciously depending on which way they're triggered, if it's more anxious or more avoidant. But a lot of the subsequent behaviors are driven by these two fears, and whether the patterns manifest as AP, DA, or FA overall attachment styles depends on the type of conditions faced earlier in life, and subsequent shifts to the nervous system that accompany the attachment styles. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 17:47:47 GMT
An ex described it as "a lifestyle of positivity", when actually he was pretty pessimistic with things most of the time, including his own capabilities. Do you think this is especially connected to why connections fail and deactivation occurs with an underlying sense that one is not "good enough" or I would not like them if I "really knew" them, as they struggle to maintain the facade? I've noticed this with both a past FA partner and an FA friend. Also, do you think this could be an unconscious pattern? It was very interesting to see you label it as manipulation outright. It really depends on awareness. It can be unconscious, manipulative, or both. There's a basis in an FA's needs being ignored, dismissed, or punished in childhood. In a scary or chaotic household, adults likely don't know how to deal with conflict in a healthy way so negativity or disagreement may have been met with shame or punishment. This is a double whammy: a kid both doesn't learn healthy ways of dealing with conflict or feeling stress / distress, and tries to find other ways to get around the negative feelings they aren't allowed to express. This might be fawning (agreeing with everything just to keep the peace), it might be disassociating to ignore the bad feelings, it might be rejecting the self altogether and coming up with a kind of false self that is more pleasing to the adults (or whoever) and provides an extra benefit of the FA then can't rejected for real because no one is seeing the real them. There's other dysfunctional learned coping mechanisms possible too, this isn't an exhaustive list. Yes, it can be a manipulative way to get needs met because it was all that actually seemed to work, but it's not necessarily consciously or bad-intentioned manipulation. But it is still dysfunction, and when the FA is an adult, it gets in the way of mature connections instead of protecting the FA and assisting in getting needs met as the tactics did as a child. It's unfortunate, and often reflects within the FA their shame, intentional disconnection from self at one point that became so natural it's not even conscious anymore, difficulty reconnecting to self and accurately reading their own feelings and needs, rejection of self if things are less than perfect, and need to be in control of their environment (even if it's a facade and not really controlled... magical thinking and life of positivity is a rejection of reality in some ways though that can make it very difficult to confront and solve real problems). What may also be helpful for you to understand is AP and the anxious side of FA consciously fear abandonment and unconsciously fear engulfment. DA and the avoidant side of FA consciously fear engulfment and unconsciously fear abandonment. FA fluctuate between which fears they feel and can connect with consciously depending on which way they're triggered, if it's more anxious or more avoidant. But a lot of the subsequent behaviors are driven by these two fears, and whether the patterns manifest as AP, DA, or FA overall attachment styles depends on the type of conditions faced earlier in life, and subsequent shifts to the nervous system that accompany the attachment styles. I concur with the needs being neglected in childhood heavily. None of the people I have mentioned in that post you have quoted have experienced a safe living situation as children. In fact a common thing an ex would say, "I've never felt safety throughout my life, so I cannot belong to anyone but myself". It seems as though quite simply another way to look at insecure attachment in general is that it is a form of generational trauma. Which saddens me  |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 1, 2021 17:51:56 GMT
It seems as though quite simply another way to look at insecure attachment in general is that it is a form of generational trauma. Which saddens me 100%, multi-generational trauma is a large aspect of it, which in my opinion needs to be confronted and reconciled within the insecure person's self-narrative as one of the steps towards earned security. For me, it was recognizing I took on and internalized issues and trauma that weren't actually my own. |
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annes
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Post by annes on Jun 1, 2021 19:54:54 GMT
Your post and the comments seem already pretty rich and accurate. In my experience: - definitely love bombing, appearance of being super emotionally attuned in the beginning (which is not something you would get from a DA); - emotional hungover after every meeting, like he needed to distance himself to "recharge" and may just disappear for la while. If I pulled back he'd miss me and come back, basically he didn't' want me to be available, as if he couldn't handle it and it was a turn off to him; - difficulty initiating contact if there is some sort of tension, either emotional tension after even a good meeting, or some sense of conflict. He would rather check insistently on my social media but won't reach out to me; this way he could have a sense of connection all the while not having to engage with actual connection. This relates to having a hard time being vulnerable, which is obviously essential to build any sort of intimacy; - he would want me to reach out to him, but then if I did he seemed startled, and if I didn't he seemed upset; - he could be vulnerable and attuned at the beginning, but just because it's easy at the beginning, when you're still not a "threat": when I got closer and there was a "risk" of actual intimacy, he just couldn't handle it and drew back; - lack of empathy, particularly when he shut down, he just didn't see my perspective; - expectation that I was somehow able to "mind read" him without communication, and subtle resentment if I (obviously) couldn't; - he really wanted to have a sense of control at every stage of dating; - difficulty in setting up plans, he preferred to leave things vague, like "yeah let's meet soon" without actually making plans;
- all of this basically amounts to hot/cold behavior. When I used to date this FA guy I was completely unaware of these mechanisms which left me very confused, because I only had experienced APs and DAs in the past. At the beginning I was relieved the guy didn't seem avoidant, but I was wrong. As an AP, after a great date I would start obsessing over what I did wrong, why they disappeared, etc. because I didn't know it was about them, not about me. FAs in my view are the hardest to get over, they are inconsistency at its maximum, and inconsistency leads to intermittent reinforcement, which if you've read about it, basically can drive you insane and keep you hooked exactly like an addiction. Anyways, now I'm super careful and self-protective, and will be suspicious if there is a "too good to be true" feeling early on. I think the most important thing is taking the time to get to know a person, don't assume that they will be as they are at the beginning, because in the beginning it's easy to show up with their most polished, "best self", but attachment triggers come up later on, when the risk of intimacy gets real. As for humour, it depends, I am AP and very, very jokey, so I'm not sure about the relevance of this in spotting a FA early on. |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 1, 2021 20:25:26 GMT
When I used to date a FA I was completely unaware of these mechanisms which left me very confused, because I only had experienced APs and DAs in the past. At the beginning I was relieved the guy didn't seem avoidant, but I was wrong. LOL I remember when I switched from DAs to FAs (not knowing either was a thing) and was so excited I finally stopped dating "guys afraid of commitment." Oops  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 21:17:28 GMT
Your post and the comments seem already pretty rich and accurate. In my experience: - definitely love bombing, appearance of being super emotionally attuned in the beginning (which is not something you would get from a DA); - emotional hungover after every meeting, like they need to distance themselves to "recharge" and may just disappear for long time. If you pull back they'll miss you and come back, basically they don't want you to be available: when you're available they can't handle it and it's a turn off to them; - difficulty initiating contact if there is some sort of tension, either emotional tension after even a good meeting, or some sense of conflict. They will rather check desperately on your social media but won't reach out to you; this way they can have a sense of connection with you all the while not having to engage with actual connection. This relates to their having a hard time being vulnerable, they don't want to look vulnerable, which is obviously essential to build any sort of intimacy; - they may desperately want you to reach out to them, but then if you do they may be startled, and if you don't they may be upset; - they CAN be vulnerable and attuned at the beginning, but just because it's easy at the beginning, when you're still not a "threat": when you get closer and there is the "risk" of actual intimacy, they just can't handle it and draw back; - lack of empathy, particularly when they shut down, they just don't see your perspective; - expectation that you somehow are able to "mind read" them without communication, and resentment if you can't (I know, doesn't make any - logical - sense); - they really want a sense of control at every stage of dating; - difficulty in setting up plans, they prefer to leave things vague, like "yeah let's meet soon" without actually making plans;
- all of this basically amounts to hot/cold behavior. When I used to date a FA I was completely unaware of these mechanisms which left me very confused, because I only had experienced APs and DAs in the past. At the beginning I was relieved the guy didn't seem avoidant, but I was wrong. It seemed to me that the person was AP at the beginning, but then thought they were more of DA, until I found out about this FA style. As an AP, after a great date I would start obsessing over what I did wrong, why they disappeared, etc. because I didn't know it was about them, not about me. FAs in my view are the hardest to get over, they are inconsistency at its maximum, and inconsistency leads to intermittent reinforcement, which if you've read about it, basically can drive you insane and keep you hooked exactly like an addiction. Anyways, now I'm super careful and self-protective, and will be suspicious if there is a "too good to be true" feeling early on. I think the most important thing is taking the time to get to know a person, don't assume that they will be as they are at the beginning, because in the beginning it's easy to show up with their most polished, "best self", but attachment triggers come up later on, when the risk of intimacy gets real. As for humour, it depends, I am AP and very, very jokey, so I'm not sure about the relevance of this in spotting a FA early on. Thanks for adding to the thread! These are definitely things I have experienced from my FA ex.
The thing about the plans, he would also set up plans then change them last minute for seemingly no good reason sometimes.
And as well as that "drawing back", I've heard it being described as a nagging feeling/intrusive thoughts he would get from time to time to stay away from me that he doesn't seem to understand, because everything was going well in general until it became unbearable (paraphrased quote) - the solution to him was to avoid me rather than risk delving into the "why" and root causes of how he felt.
For the vulnerability I've also heard apologies for that as time went on, and attempts to downplay any vulnerable comments that "slip out" with jokes after, a change of topic, or a less enthusiastic response when I react to a vulnerable expression by him ("you care about me more than I do for you" type of thing).
When shut down I've also seen behavior that could be interpreted as "I get your perspective but I will not change my point of view" verbally, but then in terms of actions there is some effort to self-improve and salvage the relationship until it all vanishes and he fully shut down for good. I am still not sure if that minimal effort was driven by guilt or a genuine attempt at addressing a problem.
Interestingly there are also parallels with my FA friend as well, but she has shown 0 desire to explore this when I had brought up attachment styles to her after she had asked me about why she might feel a "block" when communicating with people.
I like how you put it with the "too good to be true", that indeed seems to be the case mostly.
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Post by annieb on Jun 1, 2021 21:53:09 GMT
Nice to see this has started a discussion, thank you for all your responses! annieb , come to think of it I've also noticed this need to push down anger or any negative emotions and appear kind and friendly as well. An ex described it as "a lifestyle of positivity", when actually he was pretty pessimistic with things most of the time, including his own capabilities. Do you think this is especially connected to why connections fail and deactivation occurs with an underlying sense that one is not "good enough" or I would not like them if I "really knew" them, as they struggle to maintain the facade? I've noticed this with both a past FA partner and an FA friend. Also, do you think this could be an unconscious pattern? It was very interesting to see you label it as manipulation outright. I especially like alexandra 's quote "no matter what happens it's okay because you won't abandon yourself", very true! As for tnr9 , I usually have seen a hard shift to DA behaviors when the other party has resolved that their "emotional tank" has run out. As in, they are already triggered and in deactivation. Otherwise the push-pull is very brief (hours or one day tops) and the withdrawal explained away with work, family commitments, etc. and they try to frantically "repair" their absence.
Coincidentally, a person I'd went out on one date with and noticed these patterns with has contacted me today. I was pretty firm with boundaries and about why we would not be a good match if I ever want to start dating again.
Yes, I believe it is just that - FA deactivates because they realize they are not the person they present and they do not believe you will like them for who they are. Also for myself, I've been so busy being all kinds of great that I fail to actually stop and think if I really like the person I am so desperately auditioning for. Sometimes I rapid cycle through liking and disliking them (they've given me no reason, I lack object constancy on my own). Or I would daydream to fill in the blanks where the person has been wishy washy and I should have walked weeks ago. These are all terrible trauma responses that I do not know how to overcome and I am digging into them in my therapy. I think for a full blow narcissist this is an unconscious pattern they play out over and over, for some of us FAs, who vacillate somewhere in the space of borderlines, narcissists, and regular folk, it's a mixture. For me, gaining awareness has brought even more acute pain knowing that I may not be able to attach to another adult securely. I label acting kindly a manipulation because it is, we act a certain way to be liked. Most of the time it's harmless and not done with malice, and it probably brings a lot of good in the world. In many ways. Manipulation isn't always an evil act, it's just that it is done to achieve something. I think for a lot of my younger years I wasn't conscious of it. I would be well liked and do well at work and then disappear into an abyss because I couldn't really accept all those compliments and I couldn't act like that 24/7, it was most certainly a performance. In relationships, where I couldn't disappear and I was there 24/7 I would caretake of the other person to the point of neglect of me. Usually my appearance would suffer as my body would basically take the hits of neglect, with over or undereating, overworking, exhaustion, depression, I would be in a constant state of rapid cycling depression during a relationship, but the pressure to be in a relationship (the pressure of it defining me as a woman) is what kept me there. I think this is where a person can turn violent or hostile - at home, where the mask is off. With a couple of my avoidant exes they became violent. Vs me, as a woman I took that anger out on me and my body. Neither is a great thing. I am sure I was equally insufferable in those relationships, and stayed in them way past the expiration date. Some of my FA friends who have done therapy and had similar behaviors still have these behaviors under stress, it seems like under stress we still revert back to what's automatic. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 23:07:32 GMT
Yes, I believe it is just that - FA deactivates because they realize they are not the person they present and they do not believe you will like them for who they are. Also for myself, I've been so busy being all kinds of great that I fail to actually stop and think if I really like the person I am so desperately auditioning for. Sometimes I rapid cycle through liking and disliking them (they've given me no reason, I lack object constancy on my own). Or I would daydream to fill in the blanks where the person has been wishy washy and I should have walked weeks ago. These are all terrible trauma responses that I do not know how to overcome and I am digging into them in my therapy. I think for a full blow narcissist this is an unconscious pattern they play out over and over, for some of us FAs, who vacillate somewhere in the space of borderlines, narcissists, and regular folk, it's a mixture. For me, gaining awareness has brought even more acute pain knowing that I may not be able to attach to another adult securely. I label acting kindly a manipulation because it is, we act a certain way to be liked. Most of the time it's harmless and not done with malice, and it probably brings a lot of good in the world. In many ways. Manipulation isn't always an evil act, it's just that it is done to achieve something. I think for a lot of my younger years I wasn't conscious of it. I would be well liked and do well at work and then disappear into an abyss because I couldn't really accept all those compliments and I couldn't act like that 24/7, it was most certainly a performance. In relationships, where I couldn't disappear and I was there 24/7 I would caretake of the other person to the point of neglect of me. Usually my appearance would suffer as my body would basically take the hits of neglect, with over or undereating, overworking, exhaustion, depression, I would be in a constant state of rapid cycling depression during a relationship, but the pressure to be in a relationship (the pressure of it defining me as a woman) is what kept me there. I think this is where a person can turn violent or hostile - at home, where the mask is off. With a couple of my avoidant exes they became violent. Vs me, as a woman I took that anger out on me and my body. Neither is a great thing. I am sure I was equally insufferable in those relationships, and stayed in them way past the expiration date. Some of my FA friends who have done therapy and had similar behaviors still have these behaviors under stress, it seems like under stress we still revert back to what's automatic. I would first like to thank you for being candid, these replies have been very insightful. I would like to add to your point about awareness. I believe that with everything, the key is progress and not perfection. I feel like since you are able to express your past experiences so vividly and recognize their effects on you is definitely a marker of great progress that should be highly acknowledged.
I am also glad to see that you're drawing comparisons to narcissism because I had thought that maybe those ideas I had were too extreme, and so it is validating and I now have a more nuanced understanding for the future.
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 2, 2021 1:53:26 GMT
I honestly dislike this thread.....it has stirred up a ton of defensive mechanisms in me. Probably because it feels so isolating....let’s make a laundry list of all FA characteristics so that we can avoid them. Only...what you are describing is mainly foreign to me....I don’t switch because I am usually on the AP side of the house and usually stay there....and I really, really dislike feeling so cookie cutter, one size fits most. All insecure partners are bad choices if you want a secure match....it doesn’t have to focus solely on FA. Also...I notice that mrob hasn’t chimed in and he is an FA male. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 2:34:59 GMT
I honestly dislike this thread.....it has stirred up a ton of defensive mechanisms in me. Probably because it feels so isolating....let’s make a laundry list of all FA characteristics so that we can avoid them. Only...what you are describing is mainly foreign to me....I don’t switch because I am usually on the AP side of the house and usually stay there....and I really, really dislike feeling so cookie cutter, one size fits most. All insecure partners are bad choices if you want a secure match....it doesn’t have to focus solely on FA. Also...I notice that mrob hasn’t chimed in and he is an FA male. tnr9, sorry if I had come across as singling out or attacking FAs, I had hoped my original post had cleared up why I had posted about this particular attachment. Perhaps I should have posted on another section, then? I also view this board as a wonderful resource for all - so posting here would help also others maybe recognize patterns in themselves more effectively or help people moving toward secure make more informed dating choices.
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