|
Post by annieb on Dec 14, 2021 17:44:07 GMT
Get this - he’s studied attachment theory professionally and is a DA. What are the odds, lol. That's pretty funny. But I bet the odds are higher than you think with the where you are in the process like attracting like type thing. Definitely curious if he has any "professional" opinions to add that are new or contrary to what we unprofessionally cover on this forum! Ah, the great odds of the insecure attachment and like seeking like. I am quite amused that once again I have picked an avoidant. Albeit this time someone who’s aware of their attachment style or “disorder” as he calls it. I will ask him more about his experiences and research into the attachment theory (he is a neuroscientist). And hopefully he can be a good resource for all of us going forward 😀
|
|
|
Post by annieb on Dec 14, 2021 17:45:08 GMT
DA's are awesome, go for it! 😂 couldn't resist Ah, yes, DAs are the cream of the crop. Love them! 🤓
|
|
|
Post by annieb on Dec 14, 2021 17:46:10 GMT
So far I haven’t toppled off the pedestal he’s put me on. He still thinks I’m the sh*t. 😅
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2021 17:53:54 GMT
DA's are awesome, go for it! 😂 couldn't resist Ah, yes, DAs are the cream of the crop. Love them! 🤓 An aware DA is a pretty cool catch but unaware, beware. 👀😂 I was catching up with my DA bf not too long ago. She said something that struck me to my core, in its simplicity. It's the heart longing of every DA I know including myself, and she actually said it with tears in her eyes. When I asked her what she wanted most from her current dating situation, she said in earnest... "Don't CHANGE me." Take it or leave it, right or wrong, she nailed an inescapable truth about DA. That independence and hunger to be who they *think they are. The * is complex. But, it's surprising how much a DA can evolve with their own momentum when they begin to really understand themselves. A tangent, my apologies! Hope things go good for you and DA man.
|
|
|
Post by annieb on Feb 9, 2022 15:05:10 GMT
A little update on my new man, still not starting a new thread on him lol. For some reason I don’t feel like I have “questions” like I used to in regards to relationships and this relationship in general. While we have the insecure dynamic play out on a loop every two weeks it seems, we are still very happy. And while I’ve definitely been hurt by his actions (emotionally), I seem to have a newfound ability to remain in pain. Gosh, this sounds terrible. But hear me out. I stay through highly uncomfortable feelings without much of a fight or flight impulse. And more of a peaceful resolve. And not in a masochistic sense either. I must also say that he has not activated my abandonment the way my two previous dating situations did. I don’t know if it is because I have stronger feelings for him or if he is more “secure”. If anything he is way more aware of his actions and can correct himself if he knows he messed up. And so do I. I’ve had no problem quickly apologizing and moving on. Or believing him when he explains to me something I find sketchy, etc. I’ve felt manipulated and I’ve felt all those terrible insecure attachment things with him already, but we have been able to cycle through them quickly.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 2:31:17 GMT
A little update on my new man, still not starting a new thread on him lol. For some reason I don’t feel like I have “questions” like I used to in regards to relationships and this relationship in general. While we have the insecure dynamic play out on a loop every two weeks it seems, we are still very happy. And while I’ve definitely been hurt by his actions (emotionally), I seem to have a newfound ability to remain in pain. Gosh, this sounds terrible. But hear me out. I stay through highly uncomfortable feelings without much of a fight or flight impulse. And more of a peaceful resolve. And not in a masochistic sense either. I must also say that he has not activated my abandonment the way my two previous dating situations did. I don’t know if it is because I have stronger feelings for him or if he is more “secure”. If anything he is way more aware of his actions and can correct himself if he knows he messed up. And so do I. I’ve had no problem quickly apologizing and moving on. Or believing him when he explains to me something I find sketchy, etc. I’ve felt manipulated and I’ve felt all those terrible insecure attachment things with him already, but we have been able to cycle through them quickly. It's progress! The road to healthier relating isn't smooth and it isn't linear in my experience.
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Feb 10, 2022 3:43:28 GMT
I think I'm confused about why people are giving kudos to DA's? Am I missing something?
|
|
|
Post by krolle on Feb 10, 2022 13:13:24 GMT
I think I'm confused about why people are giving kudos to DA's? Am I missing something? I think its more about giving kudos to aware DA's who are working on their side of things. As that doesnt happen so often, and shoukd be celebrated when it does. And also recognizing that as frustrating as all insecure behaviour is, it just formed as a defence strategy in an innocent child who was struggling to survive.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 13:53:58 GMT
I think I'm confused about why people are giving kudos to DA's? Am I missing something? I think its more about giving kudos to aware DA's who are working on their side of things. As that doesnt happen so often, and shoukd be celebrated when it does. And also recognizing that as frustrating as all insecure behaviour is, it just formed as a defence strategy in an innocent child who was struggling to survive. Thanks Krolle, you're spot on. There's also a tongue in cheek reference to how DA often get put on a pedestal by other insecure types... but a serious reference to how we are LOVABLE TOO. I'm DA and I led the kudos. We get a lot of smack. Standing by the kudos for a an aware DA. 😉
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Feb 10, 2022 15:40:37 GMT
Ah, okay! Got it. TY!
|
|
|
Post by annieb on Apr 1, 2022 15:57:01 GMT
Update on the new DA man. We’ve celebrated our four month dating anniversary with a dinner and a play, we were absolutely the happiest and almost the most miserable in the same day 😃. We started with a wonderful dinner both happy and dressed up, and ended with an interactive play that takes place on the dark, and while I’ve mentioned to him that I am fully night blind in one eye and have only some night vision in the other, he must have forgotten, he promptly abandoned me at the beginning of this play, and went off to explore (which is customary for this play, people get separated during it and follow different audience groups), at which point I was left to navigate on my own and I ended up repeating a random loop about five times and ending up in the same place; and I didn’t want to cause panic, but I could not find any staff and not finding a bathroom and getting anxious I ended up peeing my pants 🤓. Then I finally got out of the loop and took an Uber to Marshalls that was open for the last half hour and bought some sweatpants and things to clean up with; and then managed to clean up and felt better and then texted him that I had to leave and that I was ready to pick him up.
During this play they disable your phone, so we weren’t able yo connect right away, but then he finally texted me. He was upset that I had left and went into a blame accepting and blame shifting tirade. It was really cold outside and I already felt like I would be getting a cold the next day, but I really truly already got over the whole thing and just wanted to go home and I was even in a good mood still until he proceeded to perceive that I abandoned him and he left the venue without telling me which direction he is headed and saying that I should just go home; I chased him through the NYC subway system to tell him that I love him and wanted to spend the evening together despite the hiccup. I asked him if he wanted to and he said yes.
We connected and spent the evening together in silence despite me trying to lighten the mood with jokes (that I found hilarious myself). Contempt and resentment are the best words I can find to describe what he seems like he feels towards me, when he goes silent. I can’t help, but think that it’s an overreaction. This type of scenario has played out several times already. And it seems it’s playing out with even higher frequency than at the beginning. We are rapid cycling in some sort of FA DA who knows what. And yet we are still talking and we still love each other. I am consciously and actively engaging with him and each of our interaction usually starts out great and then ends up either with a meltdown or a silence..
He says that I’m contributing to this more than I think I do. Look, it’s quite possible; but when I recount my steps I don’t think so. My therapist also doesn’t think so and I feel like I have a good grip on myself. I worry that there will be a moment in which his contempt will transfer to me and it will erode my self esteem. Not that there was so much of it to begin with, but there was definitely some solid strides I had made towards self confidence.
There was a moment about three weeks ago when he abruptly stopped drinking, and good for him, and he started actively exercising and I let my routine slip and I gained a few pounds; at which point I felt I was becoming codependent. I felt like some transference had happened. And I needed to ha regroup. I am better now and back to my routine.
I don’t know what future holds. I don’t know what will happen with this man, but I don’t think I would be otherwise interested in anybody else anyway. There are so many great qualities about him, that it’s hard to reconcile this incredibly sad insecure attachment dynamic that we unfortunately have and I don’t think we can get out of without professional help. Every time I have my therapy I have a better outlook and I know that I actively choose to engage, I feel powerful in that knowledge. It feels like I need to increase my therapy frequency to maybe every week instead of every other week, or maybe at least three times a month. I don’t know if that’s a good thing. I remember last summer while I was hung up on my work colleague I was still overall happier, but I think now I’m a little bummed. Yet I don’t think I’m losing touch with reality so to speak. I feel very grounded nevertheless.
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Apr 1, 2022 16:40:52 GMT
He was upset that I had left and went into a blame accepting and blame shifting tirade. ... I was even in a good mood still until he proceeded to perceive that I abandoned him and he left the venue without telling me which direction he is headed and saying that I should just go home; I chased him through the NYC subway system to tell him that I love him and wanted to spend the evening together despite the hiccup. I asked him if he wanted to and he said yes. I don't know how the conversation went, but these dynamics feel very familiar to me. This is not to excuse his behavior, he reacted poorly, but since it could be perceived as "his fault" he might have been trying to protect himself from the shame of it. So the only way to deal with it was to put it back on you. I really hope his first reaction was asking if you were okay, but from what you wrote he really made it about him. When I get hurt by someone and I'm questioning what happened, I turn it around. Would I treat someone like this? My counsellor likes to remind me, while I may know why someone is acting the way they are, the fact that it hurt me and is not how a loving person would act, is also important. Contempt and resentment are the best words I can find to describe what he seems like he feels towards me, when he goes silent. I can’t help, but think that it’s an overreaction. ... I am consciously and actively engaging with him and each of our interaction usually starts out great and then ends up either with a meltdown or a silence.. Contempt is one of Dr. Gottmans four horsemen to predict a relationship ending. While it is great you are showing up, if he isn't also trying to resolve his issue you are going to stay stuck. Is he in therapy? What happens when he goes silent? Do you chase and try to get him to open up again or do you just let him be silent? I don’t think I would be otherwise interested in anybody else anyway. There are so many great qualities about him, that it’s hard to reconcile this incredibly sad insecure attachment dynamic that we unfortunately have and I don’t think we can get out of without professional help. Every time I have my therapy I have a better outlook and I know that I actively choose to engage, I feel powerful in that knowledge. This could have been written by me, word for word. I think you are beginning to feel the cognitive dissonance. That is why you feel better after therapy, you pump yourself up and then you have another interaction and it is hard to ignore the mounting evidence that your dynamic is not working. I know I barely believe it myself, but if you decide to move on, there are other people out there who will treat you with the love, care and respect that you deserve. I hope this post doesn't come across as too critical, I'm always so jealous of how alexandra writes with so much care and support, but your post really spoke to me. I was married to my best friend, we got along amazingly, until the times when we didn't. There was so much love, but he also treated me with contempt, resentment and disrespect. You start to question yourself more and more. There are power and control themes running through what you write, so I am glad you have a counsellor to work with you through this, but at the same time, increasing therapy to try to stabilize yourself seems like you may be trying to shoulder too much of this.
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Apr 1, 2022 18:31:04 GMT
I know which play you're describing, and I went once years ago with a friend. We intended to stay together but that was impossible basically immediately, even without vision challenges! The environment just isn't conducive unless you're able to hold hands the entire time. I'm sorry you weren't able to fully enjoy the show, and I think it actually says a lot that you were able to leave, problem-solve some cleanup, and not be overwhelmed or upset by the stress of all that happening.
I agree with what username says about contempt. I've dated enough avoidants with that go to defense mechanism (even when it's out of shame for feeling bad and feeling some responsibility for a situation not going as planned), and when I was AP this could destroy my self-esteem over time. If it's getting worse and not better, which it might be since you said the cycles for it happening are getting shorter, then it's possible that even though you're both in therapy, you're further along than him in your own process.
The repair on situations like this is really important. It's okay to have disagreements, but how does he come back around to repair with you after? Does he take responsibility and take actions to do better next time? Instead of just paying lip service by apologizing in words but then repeating in actions with no actual changes or adjustments? There's your side of how you handle things, like not taking things personally which don't need to be taken personally, but that doesn't mean subjecting yourself to repetitive and unchanging disrespect. So how you're both working together to resolve and repair after conflict is something you may need to discuss with him at a time when he's not triggered... maybe he'd be willing to go to a couple therapy appointments with you about it?
You upping your own therapy may be okay instead of a bad sign. You've been working on yourself outside of a relationship, being in one when you're still dealing with insecure attachment issues is a lot more triggering though giving you a lot more opportunity to learn. I'd see this as a yellow flag for now, that if you feel the need to permanently keep your therapy appointments far more frequent for the duration of the relationship then maybe it's not the right one for you. But as a temporary thing when you haven't been in a relationship for a while and are adjusting, yellow flag to keep in the back of your head, needing more information before it turns all out red.
|
|
|
Post by annieb on Apr 15, 2022 13:51:44 GMT
Thank you both for these posts. I took a good week to contemplate your words and came back to re read your thoughts several times. I wanted to make sure that I’m not acting out of defense myself, that I had my eyes wide open. I had started to slip in my daily life, being late for work, skipping my workouts, eating cake. Things like that, it’s a state I’m in that is in some ways self pitying and is also self destructive. I had started to internalize my bfs dismissive and rude behavior I believe, but wasn’t always aware.
After the play incident we had I believe one more minor fight and then another. Things that were misunderstandings where I was looking for support, but was dismissed by bf. One was where we were discussing a project he was working on and it was a good discussion, when he said oh here is a book that will explain it better. It was about quantum particles and how light moves, that the previous concept of photons as particles may not be accurate, etc. Sort of a contemplative book written by a scientist. I started reading it and then I was sort of grumpy that it was a contemplative book. I said I want these scientists to tell me exactly what light is instead of contemplating. I guess it was snarky, but I also thought it was funny. He said well why aren’t you rich? I said what does that have to do with anything? He said if everyone knew everything then why aren’t you rich already? Not being rich is one of my biggest insecurities. I’m very embarrassed about not making the kind of money I should be making with my work experience. I’ve shared it with him and he sort of remembered it I think and threw it at me. I can’t find another explanation why he would draw a parallel with that.
He then got in bed and was grumpy about his exercise and diet not bringing the results he wanted and I thought I was supporting him, by sharing some of my weight maintenance experiences, but he kept what I think picking a fight with me, and I tried to remain positive and encouraging even after the fight.
So we had two fights in one night, and then next time I came over I didn’t knock on the door and he was upset about that. I poked my head on and smiled and he was visibly upset. He was then unpleasant for the rest of the night again, picking on my for not doing anything (I’m at his place, where I don’t have many things, so I think I was just on my laptop),
All these fights and picking were really word salady, so I can’t even explain what was the last straw for me, but we had had sex maybe once in the last few weeks, and when I wanted to have sex Sunday morning I was over again, he said it was too late in the day (it was still morning); and he wanted to get on with his day. I understand it, but I think this time was important for both of us to stop and mend. I said I feel very bad for getting rejected. He said he didn’t need this drama and that I don’t appreciate what he does for me. He said I should leave, he wants to work and get ready for his trip.
I had committed to feed his cat for the next two days he was going to be away. I asked him do you really want me to leave because this will probably be the last time (he’s gotten agitated and asked me to leave twice before and then felt bad and guilty a few days later). He said are you threatening me? Then ran out the door himself.
I asked him via text if he wanted me to still keep the keys to feed the cat since I didn’t want to leave him hanging; and he said no, he prefers a more reliable service.
I said ok, gathered all my things I had in the bathroom and bedroom and left. I resolved it be the final time. A half hour later he texted he couldn’t find anyone to take care of his cat and asked if I would still do it. And I said, of course, no problem.
He sent me a digital key, I visited the cat twice and he thanked me after, we maybe exchanged one or two texts and that’s it. The relationship is essentially over and he hasn’t tried to initiate. I say that because I still miss him terribly and I still really liked the person he sometimes was.
|
|
|
Post by annieb on Apr 15, 2022 14:11:33 GMT
cherrycola to answer your questions about therapy and what happens after he goes silent. Usually he would chase because I would deactivate myself. When I chased him through the subway system; I was in essence challenging myself to not withdraw and not take his behavior as a rejection. When I first met him he said he was in therapy, but when the time went by and more things revealed themselves it was a psychiatrist he was seeing that also did a therapy session with him; once a month. Once a month is probably not enough and I thought quite presumptuous of the psychiatrist to take over the therapists role and it be enough. Of course I don’t know all the real details.
|
|