Here we go again.

Thankyou Alexandra. That makes total sense. And very eloquently written as usual.

I think what I'm trying to do is indeed play games to some extent, or be tactical. But not for the usual power struggle reasons. It's to try respond in a way that her pre-insight reactions might respond to well.
I know she knows 'something' is wrong, and is in therapy for it. But I think she is just doing some of the generic self esteem and CBT type stuff. Like me she is early on in the journey but trying to adress it. As you very astutely pointed out with shocking accuracy we were likely emotionally attracted because we are in similar stages of personal development.
I think there's only the vaguest awareness of AT. And I'm not sure she's ready for me to just reel out everything that's 'wrong with her' in that context, the same way I wasn't. I know you can't date potential. But she has demonstrate a real desire to put in the difficult emotional work and seems to be on the path. Just a bit later than me, and still unaware. When she would stay over at my place she would be very expressly interested in all the books we discuss here. My stuff on co-dependance and AT etc.

I see some things quiet obvious now in her that she is oblivious to but I'm not sure it's the time to so starkly point them out without any prior knowledge. I can see her brain working hard to try figure out stuff the same way mine did/does. But I also want to give her the chance to show she might be able to show up in a way that's respectful for me by communicating in a way she might receive well. I think that's what I'm getting at with asking you how bold to be. In agreeance that she is certainly insecure, but really wanting to be less so, and on the cusp of insight.

The example here with boundaries is that I have noticed she has a very poor idea of what they are, and how to communicate them. And this is related to the people pleasing and a very hard time saying no. She also basically completely disrespects me because I am very flimsy in my own boundaries. And I have not yet communicated them to her. Perhaps to a secure person it might seem natural to say it's not ok to be an hour late or to flake several times. But to her I think she just genuinely doesn't know, at least consciously. I think one of the reasons she downgraded our "situationship" is because she was putting way more in than she felt she was getting back, and had no idea to communicate that to me, or that it would even be acceptable to do so, and so resentment festered under the surface as I emotionally held back to protect myself and didn't give quiet so much.

I'm aware it's not my job to fix her, And trying to avoid the temptation. Nor do I see myself as her better because of it. But I can tell she is frustratingly close to discovery and it's worth at least trying to communicate. Even if we just end up being aqcuiaintainces eventually.

Like attracts like in terms of security as we've discovered. I'm not yet secure, but I'm not willing to tap out of dating. So this is what I'm working with currently. Early awareness, slightly secure women are likely going to be my dates at this stage. Indicating there's probably more unavoidable, but growth inducing pain to come.

So I guess my question is more about me, how do I communicate my boundaries in a way she will listen to and not just go into defence or avoidance. At least until such time as we can just talk openly about things that take a little eye opening to accept. What are some pitfalls I might avoid when communicating them? for example I assume I should avoid being condescending or patronising. Or openly hostile. I suppose I'm also trying to say I don't know what is the difference between assertive and obnoxious. I am after all a people pleaser too still. Just less so than I used to be.



I guess Im trying to be secure enough to pull her in the right direction a little and give us a chance to hear each other and grow. But not so secure I dismiss her as unviable as a romantic prospect yet. If I do that, part of me has to accept that I am unviable as an insecure. And that's quiet hard to accept.

I still stand by this as the right tone, krolle. It's short, simple, and direct and asserts your expectations and feelings without actually demanding anything of her. She has the choice to respond and engage, or not. There's no ultimatums or threats or surprises, it's a simple but strong message focused on what you'd like to do. Specially if she's indeed FA, then when triggered they can get more easily confused from being overwhelmed (as you probably already know). In that state, I've always failed when trying to approach things with a lot of words. They can't process it and may just shut down. I think getting her to be open to a conversation in person and not overly guarded when she shows up is your goal here. You can talk about other areas you feel you weren't communicating well about once she decides to show up and if she says she's actually willing to work with you towards being more committed. If she doesn't actually want to show up or feels coerced, she won't be open and receptive to hearing what you have to say anyway because she'll be too defensive.

I didn’t read it all, but I would not analyze so deeply. I was kidding before; but I’m not kidding now. This is not your mother, you do not need to power struggle a love out of it, so to speak. And you do not need to fix her so that she would love you. I’m sorry to be so blunt. This is a separate completely different woman you can have a relationship with and someone you can interact with as an adult. I hope that it by essence helps your secure mindset, that it’s out of your control how she will react. It’s only in your control to lay your own cards on the table.

Secure , easy, respectful relating isn't confrontational or edgy, it's cooperative. So if you cooperate with yourself (know and name your preferences) you give her an opportunity to cooperate or not. It starts with clear communication internally (what's important to me?" and then externally "here's what's important to me".

At the same time you can be sensitive and curious about what is important to her, ask, and have the general tone of "can we work together on this to make us both feel at ease?"

It's a team thing from day one actually.

great advice.....sigh

I just know from personal experience as an an FA I will push the boundary as far as it will go to not commit to almost anything emotionally difficult in advance, without the threat of genuine abandonment to rein in the avoidant behaviours.

Only when the sobering thought of genuine loss hits home do I actually take the time to value someone. If there's no threat of loss they're almost guaranteed to be subconsciously taken for granted perpetually.

I know I don't control her, nor would I try. But that doesn't mean I can't influence the outcome by my own actions. Isn't that the nature of free Will?

I really do value the advice. And I'm not trying to disagree on this occasion. Just integrate my own experience as an FA.

So really, I think you're doing the thing we all di- pointing a finger at her unreliability and unwillingness to commit to a time when it's actually something you struggle with. You both do. Again, educational. You're doing fine.