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Post by krolle on Nov 5, 2021 2:29:49 GMT
Just to chime in as another FA….I found talking on the phone to only be 1 step up from texting…meaning will you actually feel heard if you can’t see her face? Or will you potentially gyrate on that? I find visual cues very important. Also…..I often found when talking to B post break up that he wasn’t much into hearing what I had to say…rather he felt the need to justify his actions based on guilt and that really clouded the conversations and I still did not feel heard. Yes. Just trying to defend against guilt. Not really hear you. this is my appraisal. Also. Not a chance she'll accept a call from me. Way too shut down. Getting her to accept a call when we were "ending" was like pulling teeth. no chance now |
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Post by krolle on Nov 5, 2021 2:31:53 GMT
I wasn't suggesting he guess about her intentions. I was saying, maybe if he takes her at face value, that she wanted to wish him well but is done... then is there really anything else to add? Someone triggered anxious can go on trying to keep the connection going forever. They always have more questions or they didn't feel heard after communicating. There's a point where it's really not about that partner anymore and more talking won't help and won't provide more answers (especially if she's unaware and disconnected from herself anyway). It's about trusting self for the closure. If krolle has things he wants to get off his chest to say or ask that are directly relevant, and practice listening as annieb suggested and communicating clearly himself, he can. But beyond practicing those skills, I don't think responding will do much more besides leave the door open to keep the conversation and same push-pull dynamic going. And unless she's finished with her deactivating (and even then), I'm not sure if she'll be self-aware enough for the conversation to be productive. I say all that having been anxious and on the receiving end both of these same behaviors and of these same conversations afterwards. The only one that ever really helped me was a year and a half later, when my FA ex and I were tentatively trying to reconcile and he was far away from our past breakup in his mind and not triggered, so he could give me honest answers that I tried really hard to depersonalize, listen to, and really hear. Having these conversations right after the situation generally made things worse, got me half-answers (or half-@$$ed answers) and gave me more to anxiously ruminate about and cling to for longer. It's not a safe space to practice communication, honestly. Not yet. Oh, I gotcha. I had the impression that the communication never happened, and of course for the gross reason that she wasn't responsive when he attempted to solidify a time to talk- she was completely inappropriate in all that. To be honest, my response probably would be to communicate that well wishes and thoughtless behavior don't go hand in hand in my book, and I would clarify what I meant by that. I would express that I respect my time and hers, I wouldn't be antagonistic. I'd be open to hear what she had to say, and make sure I said what I wanted to say. If understanding can be attained even in the case of goodbye, that's a win in my book. But I would not be interested in a marathon game of tag and hide and seek. It would be better than avoiding the situation, in my journey. I've had a tangle with a flake and I felt great to go ahead and represent myself truthfully with good boundaries. I want to do this. Just tell her I don't think she's a bad person. But express how much I'm hurt and why. But I think the defence against shame will be too strong to even respond. And yes alexandra I'm finding it hard to detach from the outcome. |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 5, 2021 2:34:47 GMT
Just to chime in as another FA….I found talking on the phone to only be 1 step up from texting…meaning will you actually feel heard if you can’t see her face? Or will you potentially gyrate on that? I find visual cues very important. Also…..I often found when talking to B post break up that he wasn’t much into hearing what I had to say…rather he felt the need to justify his actions based on guilt and that really clouded the conversations and I still did not feel heard. Yes. Just trying to defend against guilt. Not really hear you. this is my appraisal. Also. Not a chance she'll accept a call from me. Way too shut down. Getting her to accept a call when we were "ending" was like pulling teeth. no chance now Yeh….it sounds like you aren’t going to get any resolution…which stinks…it really does. And honestly I have no words except to say that I hear you and I care. If you are open to it…I am also sending a cyber hug. |
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Post by krolle on Nov 5, 2021 2:38:36 GMT
Well honestly I'm just confused. I realise secure people know what's going in in their head and communicate it directly. But I find I'm often trying to communicate through people's subconscious because almost everyone I know seems insecure. Take lady #2 for example and me reading her intention to go around late at night to watch a movie and not realizing it meant a hook up. She explicitly said "I don't want a hook up" And then invited me to bed at 2am and rubbed her behind against me provocatively. My exoerience of communication in life has been one of constant incongruity. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm so confused about people communicating indirectly I have no idea what things mean anymore. In terms of the verbal content of the message then I would say no. It did not ask for a response. But I have no idea if she wanted one sunbconsciously. My honest "guess" annieb that her message was meant as a means for her to absolve guilt is just an opinion. But I can't imagine another reason for it. In regards to my response then part of me just wants to be heard. For her to understand things from my perspective. It's not necessarily to rekindle anything. But to have her listen. There are good reasons for your confusion and mistrust, she has been confusing and also not behaved with integrity herself. Im appealing to the side of you that wants to be heard. I'm a big believer in that. It's part of this healing process. She may not give you a response that is helpful- likely not. But, the fact that you value yourself enough to speak and represent yourself is positive. At least that was a big part of my growth. Thankyou so much. |
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Post by krolle on Nov 5, 2021 2:40:01 GMT
Yes. Just trying to defend against guilt. Not really hear you. this is my appraisal. Also. Not a chance she'll accept a call from me. Way too shut down. Getting her to accept a call when we were "ending" was like pulling teeth. no chance now Yeh….it sounds like you aren’t going to get any resolution…which stinks…it really does. And honestly I have no words except to say that I hear you and I care. If you are open to it…I am also sending a cyber hug. Hug is recieved 😊 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2021 4:00:19 GMT
Right. And, I agree she wants to keep interacting and wouldn't it be satisfying to let her know who it is she wants to interact with? Who are you? It seems you're a man who has certain values and expectations for mature relating. No harm in letting her know that. But I don't think she wants to keep interacting. That's what I mean. I'm confused as to the subconscious intentions. The message just felt like a finality. Not her wanting to interact with me. But her wanting to get relief from The guilt she struggles with about knowing she hurt me. I don't know why she would interact after a week of silence other than to simply feel better about herself. If Im being honest it almost reads as scripted. Not sure if this is just an avoidant unsure about how to emote. But I also have a sneaking suspicion she might have asked her therapist for a script. Sort of like. I feel guilty about hurting him. How do I not "ghost" but get out with minimal responsibility?" kind of thing. And the therapist saying "say this and it will help YOU feel better" Of course I can't know for sure, none of us can, but I'm with annieb that she's looking to interact on some level and feeling you out. I am not saying that's a good thing, in terms of "try it again with her!" , what I'm saying is that if she's super unaware I really don't think she's going to struggle too much with guilt. And, telling someone you "had fun" is not the way most women I know would go about soothing guilt. Soothing guilt goes more alone with excuse-making and apologies. Now, if she wants to avoidantly minimize her "interest " while gauging yours in an avoidant way, what she did would do the trick. |
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Post by annieb on Nov 5, 2021 4:07:42 GMT
krolle, I would be vary of making these assumptions and making scenarios of why she contacted you. No person will send you texts, unless they want to interact with you. Ask her to call you when it's convenient and to have a conversation. I do believe it will bring you clarity, and it may not stop your rumination, but it will help to some degree. (She will most likely gaslight you on some way, but you have the knowledge to decypher).
After I broke up with my last guy this spring, I did ask to have a conversation with him in July. We had a conversation and it helped me understand him better, and while it didn't stop my rumination or pain, it was the first step for me to see his side of the story. And while he wasn't necessarily forthcoming on his motives (he didn't give it to me on a silver platter), I was able to piece together a much clearer picture. And it shifted my thinking just a little. After that conversation he was very friendly and wanted to stay in constant touch, and called regularly, and when I finally confronted him why he was calling me one time, he said that I had asked him to call me. Of course, I never asked, the only time I've asked anything of him was that one conversation and maybe one ride before that. That was it. And yet during the conversation he said that during our short relationship I was becoming increasingly demanding (I am the furthest from demanding usually, in general my life, so this is farthest from the truth, (I am actually working on being more demanding, when it comes to relationships) but he was projecting his mother's behavior onto me most likely or a variation of it).
While I still liked him, the fact that he projected something completely untrue onto me also helped me detach and disconnect.
And then the next time I found myself struggling, I had some of that from that conversation help me make the decision to move on. So while the conversation was not great, and certainly didn't stop my pain, it still helped eventually.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 5, 2021 4:08:28 GMT
Of course I can't know for sure, none of us can, but I'm with annieb that she's looking to interact on some level and feeling you out. I am not saying that's a good thing, in terms of "try it again with her!" , what I'm saying is that if she's super unaware I really don't think she's going to struggle too much with guilt. And, telling someone you "had fun" is not the way most women I know would go about soothing guilt. Soothing guilt goes more alone with excuse-making and apologies. Now, if she wants to avoidantly minimize her "interest " while gauging yours in an avoidant way, what she did would do the trick. Yep, this. That's why I'm more skeptical about responding and think it's possible it'll restart a cycle, though downgraded from before. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2021 4:09:12 GMT
by the way, i don't believe she should "get away" with any of this, as in, it doesn't work with you. You KNOW it doesn't work with you. But still an opportunity to communicate, which is great to practice every single time an important boundary of yours gets crossed. Talk about it, within reason- once is enough to express some critical points here, and if you decide to do that it will be practice that serves you well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2021 4:19:56 GMT
Of course I can't know for sure, none of us can, but I'm with annieb that she's looking to interact on some level and feeling you out. I am not saying that's a good thing, in terms of "try it again with her!" , what I'm saying is that if she's super unaware I really don't think she's going to struggle too much with guilt. And, telling someone you "had fun" is not the way most women I know would go about soothing guilt. Soothing guilt goes more alone with excuse-making and apologies. Now, if she wants to avoidantly minimize her "interest " while gauging yours in an avoidant way, what she did would do the trick. Yep, this. That's why I'm more skeptical about responding and think it's possible it'll restart a cycle, though downgraded from before. I'm of the opinion that getting into a cycle is a choice. I wouldn't accept any cycle, or do-over. Another option is to make it clear that the involvement is finished, make it clear why, and block her. I don't know that it's a viable option at this point. But involvement in any sense or any level is a choice and if there really is no point in interacting then I think a hard block and working it out with therapy and peers is another way to go. Her lame little communication could be ignored but I don't think that would help the rumination or processing at all. It could go a myriad of ways but can be educational even if painful, if the choice is made to respond. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2021 4:22:18 GMT
Just to chime in as another FA….I found talking on the phone to only be 1 step up from texting…meaning will you actually feel heard if you can’t see her face? Or will you potentially gyrate on that? I find visual cues very important. Also…..I often found when talking to B post break up that he wasn’t much into hearing what I had to say…rather he felt the need to justify his actions based on guilt and that really clouded the conversations and I still did not feel heard. Yes. Just trying to defend against guilt. Not really hear you. this is my appraisal. Also. Not a chance she'll accept a call from me. Way too shut down. Getting her to accept a call when we were "ending" was like pulling teeth. no chance now Frankly if she's so stunted she refuses calls and wants to poke at you for any reason at all via text, block her azz as she is a waste of time and you can get heard by those of us who will listen. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2021 4:24:00 GMT
I wouldn't even say refusing calls is shut down, it's controlling and manipulative.
Gross.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 5, 2021 5:17:41 GMT
I'm of the opinion that getting into a cycle is a choice. It absolutely is. But it doesn't necessarily feel that way when you're first starting out in awareness. So it's still important to call out. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2021 5:24:04 GMT
I'm of the opinion that getting into a cycle is a choice. It absolutely is. But it doesn't necessarily feel that way when you're first starting out in awareness. So it's still important to call out. It doesn't automatically occur to me that there would be a desire to try again but that's because my reaction is to block someone who creates this much chaos. But man if she won't even accept a call and is just going to be a brat texting after her stupid breakup then she needs a good swift block, it's just tooooo much. |
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Post by alexandra on Nov 5, 2021 5:37:21 GMT
@introvert, yes, absolutely! This is why I'd told krolle earlier that what happened around the time she stood him up wasn't his fault. Yes, I'm sure there were dynamics coming from both sides playing into things throughout. There was probably some FA triggering and bumbling through things at times. But he did absolutely nothing to deserve this level of disrespect in how she's handled things, nor to be shut down without even a phone call. That's all about her and her issues. FWIW, in situations like this... I'd have to force the in person conversation which was when the break up would be blind side delivered. Then if I wanted to talk about anything, or even just get my stuff back!, it would take 3 or 4 weeks to accomplish direct contact. Not me trying consistently, just an email maybe once a week saying, when are you available to return my things? I still want them back. Eventually, I think out of a sense of shame from the guy about how I was treated and didn't deserve it, he'd fiiiiinally call instead of email/text and make plans to meet up. It seemed to be a combination of needing to come out of the avoidant deactivation shell (not even necessarily realizing how much time I was left hanging, losing track of time) and not wanting to hurt me so simply shutting down to avoid the entire situation so they felt safer. But it certainly didn't make me feel better!! Being direct would have been best for me. It was far less terrible once I stopped being hung up on what they might be doing and why because I was accepting that it reflected their issues more than anything I did, so fully understanding their behavior and justifications wasn't even necessary. But I did always opt for talking when I got the chance to do so. As I analyzed all sides of what was going on, I was able to recognize finally what cycles looked like and start choosing not to get roped into them, instead of seeing them as hope for change in the other person. |
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