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Post by fearful8 on Jan 14, 2022 2:57:19 GMT
I should maybe say that I have a lot more FA behavior now since my marriage ended. He severely abused me and terrorized me. Horror story level abuse. I’m usually extremely avoidant of men. Barely writing back on the dating apps and really not meeting any of them. Sometimes I will choose someone I deem safe and I tend to have clingy tendencies. I have other men who want to meet me that are great choices but I won’t give them a chance and it really upsets my friends.
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Post by fearful8 on Jan 14, 2022 2:59:14 GMT
Yes, you all are very helpful and I thank all of you I was just trying to get to people individually and am such a newbie at this. Alexandra especially, thank you. A lot of what you said was so carefully written I really appreciate it. This has been incredibly helpful everyone.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 14, 2022 3:10:37 GMT
Enmeshment is basically when two people do not have healthy boundaries with each other. In a family, it's often a parent projecting all their needs on to a kid and trying to have the kid meet the needs, instead of acting like an adult to the child and meeting the child's basic needs. So an example of this might be a woman with a son is in an unhappy marriage but does not want to divorce her husband... so she starts putting her son in the husband role instead of the child role. Tries to give the son responsibilities a husband might have to his wife, makes the son spend excessive time with her or do errands for her, makes the son feel guilty if he wants to say no, later in life may sabotage any romantic relationships he has with women because she doesn't want to "lose" him to another woman because she relies on him emotionally. That is one example, but it is an adult expecting a child to emotionally regulate the adult and meet the adult's needs without taking the child's needs and boundaries into enough consideration. Does that make sense? You may have PTSD from your marriage, or C-PTSD from your childhood. The best way to start dealing with this, and getting an accurate assessment of the problems you're trying to solve, is finding a therapist who specializes in trauma or attachment styles. Some people have success with talk therapy, some with other alternatives such as Somatic Experience therapy. Other resources include the FA healing thread that anne12 already shared: jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1073/healing-disorganized-attatchment-chock-traumaAnd you may look up Thais Gibson and her free videos discussing FA online. |
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Post by anne12 on Jan 14, 2022 5:12:29 GMT
Other possible reasons for trauma/disorganised behavior - also later in life: (fight, flight, freeze (fawn) survival responses) A trauma is any event that breaks through the body's stimulus barrier and leads to overwhelming feelings of helplessness. Freud We are being traumatized if our ability to respond to a single threat is overwhelmed in one way or another (too much, too fast, too early especially if we can't reach successful resolution.' (Peter Levine) Also stress and overwhelmingness, death of relatives, bad relationships, operations ect can cause trauma/trauma like reactions jebkinnisonforum.com/post/12359/ |
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 14, 2022 15:41:42 GMT
I should maybe say that I have a lot more FA behavior now since my marriage ended. He severely abused me and terrorized me. Horror story level abuse. I’m usually extremely avoidant of men. Barely writing back on the dating apps and really not meeting any of them. Sometimes I will choose someone I deem safe and I tend to have clingy tendencies. I have other men who want to meet me that are great choices but I won’t give them a chance and it really upsets my friends. Hi there….first I want to commend you for wanting to tackle your own attachment wounding. It will be a great gift to yourself to heal from the trauma you experienced. I have found that the less safe I felt with myself, my emotions, my behaviors etc…the more I looked for individuals outside of myself to fulfill that role of safety…..the issue for me…and perhaps you will resonate….is that I picked men who felt safe “at times” but also who were “unavailable” to be with me in a secure relationship. I had to own the fact that I was not being a good judge of character and latched onto someone’s “potential”. Some people in this community have earned secure without a therapist,…but I needed a therapist in order to navigate through the trauma that was locked in my body. I needed to learn how to be a separate person from my parents (I had enmeshment issues with my mom) and trust that I was ok even with a limited set of tools. I found a great therapist whose specialty was somatic experiencing. I chose this route because I had done talk therapy and felt I had reached a plateau. Also, I knew that I had numbed my body at some point and wanted to feel again. I do recommend taking things slow with SE…because trauma tends to be in layers….the deeper you go…the more painful the memories but the victories are worth it. |
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Post by fearful8 on Jan 14, 2022 19:15:32 GMT
Okay, enmeshment makes more sense from the standpoint of adult -child but what would an example of that be for a relationship? Taking on the role of counselor for a man you are dating? 🙄😂😂😂😂 I might have already stepped into that territory, but not completely. My mom growing up was always trying to get my sister involved in her battles with my dad. I refused to get myself involved, but now that I know better, I’ll say “enmeshed.” She has severe issues mentally by the time she was early 20s and I always blamed it on her getting the brunt of my parents relationship. I would say I wasn’t picking sides.
How can I learn more about enmeshment? I haven’t seen a lot.
I would like to read and work on myself without a counselor right now because of lack of insurance and finances after the divorce. I have watched a lot of Thais Gibson videos. Sometimes they become hard to understand. I also like MacWilliam. She seems great but sometimes a few things contradict what Thais said. Like being honest and direct MacWilliam says can be overwhelming and be careful doing it but Thais says FA need directness and I agree from my personal needs.
Any great books?
Oh, and last night I went back to the dating apps and accepted a date with a cute boy so I am trying to move on, realizing I’m becoming too obsessed. But the man I started the thread about will likely reach out after some time has gone by and not sure what I will do since I very much have feelings for him. It’s a confusing thing. Should I let him know he doesn’t seem able to give me a relationship I want and need? Or just discuss the attachment?
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Post by fearful8 on Jan 14, 2022 19:26:06 GMT
I think i am for sure choosing “safe” and unavailable men. It’s so surprising to me now that I’m realizing it.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 14, 2022 19:57:59 GMT
Okay, enmeshment makes more sense from the standpoint of adult -child but what would an example of that be for a relationship? Taking on the role of counselor for a man you are dating? 🙄😂😂😂😂 I might have already stepped into that territory, but not completely. My mom growing up was always trying to get my sister involved in her battles with my dad. I refused to get myself involved, but now that I know better, I’ll say “enmeshed.” She has severe issues mentally by the time she was early 20s and I always blamed it on her getting the brunt of my parents relationship. I would say I wasn’t picking sides. How can I learn more about enmeshment? I haven’t seen a lot. I would like to read and work on myself without a counselor right now because of lack of insurance and finances after the divorce. I have watched a lot of Thais Gibson videos. Sometimes they become hard to understand. I also like MacWilliam. She seems great but sometimes a few things contradict what Thais said. Like being honest and direct MacWilliam says can be overwhelming and be careful doing it but Thais says FA need directness and I agree from my personal needs. Any great books? Oh, and last night I went back to the dating apps and accepted a date with a cute boy so I am trying to move on, realizing I’m becoming too obsessed. But the man I started the thread about will likely reach out after some time has gone by and not sure what I will do since I very much have feelings for him. It’s a confusing thing. Should I let him know he doesn’t seem able to give me a relationship I want and need? Or just discuss the attachment? The way that enmeshment has impacted my relationships is a feeling of “over responsibly” towards my partner and an expectation that my partner is “overly responsible” for me. It can come across as “caretaking” (although it isn’t really caretaking but trying to guess at a need and fill it), it can come across as “personalizing”, “crystal balling”, “second guessing” because if I am responsible for my partner…then I need to figure out the meaning of his words, actions and feelings. The other way enmeshment impacts someone (typically more avoidant) is to cause that person to distrust a partner’s intent, it can cause him to feel “conflicted” because if that person am overly responsible for you then he does not want to hurt you or deal with emotions that he cannot handle. So he might stay in a relationship even though he truly is not in it. Does that help? The best way I have understood enmeshment is where the line between who you are and who I am is blurred. |
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 14, 2022 20:20:57 GMT
Okay, enmeshment makes more sense from the standpoint of adult -child but what would an example of that be for a relationship? Taking on the role of counselor for a man you are dating? 🙄😂😂😂😂 I might have already stepped into that territory, but not completely. My mom growing up was always trying to get my sister involved in her battles with my dad. I refused to get myself involved, but now that I know better, I’ll say “enmeshed.” She has severe issues mentally by the time she was early 20s and I always blamed it on her getting the brunt of my parents relationship. I would say I wasn’t picking sides. How can I learn more about enmeshment? I haven’t seen a lot. I would like to read and work on myself without a counselor right now because of lack of insurance and finances after the divorce. I have watched a lot of Thais Gibson videos. Sometimes they become hard to understand. I also like MacWilliam. She seems great but sometimes a few things contradict what Thais said. Like being honest and direct MacWilliam says can be overwhelming and be careful doing it but Thais says FA need directness and I agree from my personal needs. Any great books? Oh, and last night I went back to the dating apps and accepted a date with a cute boy so I am trying to move on, realizing I’m becoming too obsessed. But the man I started the thread about will likely reach out after some time has gone by and not sure what I will do since I very much have feelings for him. It’s a confusing thing. Should I let him know he doesn’t seem able to give me a relationship I want and need? Or just discuss the attachment? The books that really started me on my journey before I got involved in therapy are : How to be an adult - David Richo Why am I afraid to tell you who I am - John Powell CPTSD from surviving to thriving - Pete walker I've also seen the body keeps the score reocnmended a lot. I like these books because they are very focused on inner work where some of the YouTube videos can be a bit focused on understanding the dynamics / our partners attachment which is great at a certain point but if we are already overly focused on others we need to bring it back to ourselves. I would encourage you to stop dating for a bit and sit with these uncomfortable feelings. I tried to use dating as a bandaid when I was stuck in a situationship and it wasn't fair to myself or the men I was dating. The best thing I did was stop and started to date myself. |
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Post by fearful8 on Jan 14, 2022 21:32:57 GMT
Okay, I’ll check those books out. Thanks. I feel like I’ve been ***dating***(wink, wink) myself for too long. Lol. I haven’t had anything serious in years that lasted. This is probably the best one to be honest. I really avoided. Like I said before, I went through horror story type abuse where the man I was married to was almost enjoying the pain he was causing me. I thought I’d die several times. So, stepping out and dating is sort of working on myself if that makes sense. I usually don’t see people. Stay at home and avoid. Even friends, many times. My home seems to be something I’m protective of. So you can see why I was under so much distress over the man at the beginning of the thread. I was finally letting someone into my world. I’ve let an avoidant in before, not realizing he was an avoidant and it was quickly done in two months. Anyway, yeah, maybe not dating but it does feel like dating carefully and pushing myself to see friends and other people really is working on myself.
I think that helps me with the enmeshment understanding. If I get it right, becoming too involved is sort of it. If that is the case, oh boy, I’m in trouble. Lol. I have a lot to work on! I tend to get very involved in helping friends to my detriment. I had one friend who wouldn’t even make a decision with his girlfriend without asking me for what he should respond with. It gets too much. I’ll spend hours on the phone but never see these people I’m “close” to.
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Post by cherrycola on Jan 14, 2022 23:47:21 GMT
Okay, I’ll check those books out. Thanks. I feel like I’ve been ***dating***(wink, wink) myself for too long. Lol. I haven’t had anything serious in years that lasted. This is probably the best one to be honest. I really avoided. Like I said before, I went through horror story type abuse where the man I was married to was almost enjoying the pain he was causing me. I thought I’d die several times. So, stepping out and dating is sort of working on myself if that makes sense. I usually don’t see people. Stay at home and avoid. Even friends, many times. My home seems to be something I’m protective of. So you can see why I was under so much distress over the man at the beginning of the thread. I was finally letting someone into my world. I’ve let an avoidant in before, not realizing he was an avoidant and it was quickly done in two months. Anyway, yeah, maybe not dating but it does feel like dating carefully and pushing myself to see friends and other people really is working on myself. I think that helps me with the enmeshment understanding. If I get it right, becoming too involved is sort of it. If that is the case, oh boy, I’m in trouble. Lol. I have a lot to work on! I tend to get very involved in helping friends to my detriment. I had one friend who wouldn’t even make a decision with his girlfriend without asking me for what he should respond with. It gets too much. I’ll spend hours on the phone but never see these people I’m “close” to. Your distress is 100% understandable and I know even once we recognize why a relationship wasn't healthy it is very hard to let go of it. It is a huge accomplishment that you got out of your abusive relationship and you are moving forward with your life. You seem really self-aware and that is going to help immensely with this journey. It does make complete sense that dating is working on yourself, and some parts of relational trauma can only be resolved through relations. The problem with surviving this type of trauma is it can drastically change our bar for what kind of treatment we accept/feel is normal. It can also prime us for further abuse. It seems like you have already identified things you can do, and pushing yourself to develop healthier relationships with your family and friends is an excellent place to start. Once you start to develop a language around boundaries and needs and really get in touch with yourself it is easier to put those into place in romantic relationships. I get that sense of wanting to help others, and when kept in balance it is a great thing! It also can make us feel needed and like we are of value. However it can also serve as a distraction from looking at our own issues. I am 100% guilty of being a caretaker in all my relationships. It helps to dig into what stories are we telling ourselves around it. Do we know where are boundaries are, or are we so used to ignoring them we can't even recognize our limits anymore? Your friend who needs constant support could be a good place to start and know that if he reacts badly to you setting some gentle boundaries, you are not responsible for his hurt feelings. One of my friends tends to spiral out and will start to go into circular anxious rants so I have learned to suggest he touch base with his therapist. Also keep in mind your journey is going to have layers to it. When I started I would read something or be told something and go "that makes sense" but it didn't really click beyond that, I would find that same resource a year later and it would make so much more sense and I could directly relate it to a specific thing I was doing. edit: It isn't for everyone but the baggage reclaim podcast helped me when I needed a cheerleader to remind me that I was worthy of love, trust, care and respect in all my relationships and that dating someones potential wasn't enough. |
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Post by fearful8 on Jan 16, 2022 20:56:31 GMT
Thanks, yes, I would say I tend to be on the more self aware side. I agree. One thing I’ve often noticed is that I don’t seem to understand boundaries. I seem to not even recognize what a boundary is! Lol. I must have been enmeshed quite a bit growing up? Who knows. I need to work on that.
I will check out that podcast. Thanks.
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Post by tnr9 on Jan 16, 2022 21:03:52 GMT
Thanks, yes, I would say I tend to be on the more self aware side. I agree. One thing I’ve often noticed is that I don’t seem to understand boundaries. I seem to not even recognize what a boundary is! Lol. I must have been enmeshed quite a bit growing up? Who knows. I need to work on that. I will check out that podcast. Thanks. That is not surprising for an AP leaning FA. I had the same issue until I started somatic experiencing therapy. What I found was that I was very numb in my body but very much awake to my emotions…..only when I went to a therapist who specialized in trauma in the body did boundaries become clear. |
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Post by fearful8 on Jan 17, 2022 1:28:24 GMT
So when you said AP leaning FA..does that mean you are saying mostly AP but having some FA tendencies? Or just an FA with AP at the moment instead avoidant? Trying to understand.
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