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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2022 15:51:29 GMT
My own interactions. An example would be pleasing me, or thinking that... Not voicing opinions that are different in order to avoid a confrontation (tho I like disagreeing). Never wanting to rock the boat. Internalizing all of that. Keeping opinions in to please others.In this case me... My brother does this and it is simply “avoiding confrontation” versus people pleasing. It is actually a deactivation strategy. Not rocking the boat is due to a need to keep the internal nervous system in check and isn’t really about the other person. So again, without any confirmation from him, you have interpreted his actions through your own lens. I am sure he felt it…no one wants to feel like they are being constantly analyzed…no one wants another person deciding in a vacuum who he/she is…which is why lack of communication is not an invitation to create your own story. I get it is frustrating….but the secure thing to do is simply to own that you do not know what you do not know and turn the attention back to what you do know and that is how what he did or didn’t say impacted you….how did it make you feel? That you know…that you can speak to…everything else is just trying to analyze without enough information. You have great insight on this tnr9 ! You're right, keeping things easy and not voicing things that might draw a reaction is a great way to keep to oneself in order to protect the inner sanctum and is not at all about pleasing another person, for me. It's about keeping them from interfering, crossing boundaries into my inner private life. Its also about not crossing my own boundaries in order to not engage with something I feel could become unpleasant for ME. It's a self protective, self climate control. If you think about this as a thermostat, an avoidant likes a certain inner temperature and will shut windows and doors to maintain it. It's not about cooling or heating the outdoors (pleasing others), it's about maintaining the climate inside the home. *will open windows and doors for the same reason. Not to heat or cool the outdoors. To maintain an internal temperature. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2022 16:01:27 GMT
tnr9 I'm amazed because I have never even really thought of this or articulated it, until you described it. Thank you. I love this forum for that reason. This is how I lived for a long long time, and I understand why. I had to because I was in unhealthy relationships where I felt my inner self was under seige. It is very different now with my boyfriend, we can discuss things together to regulate my internal temperature. This is a combination of me becoming more emotionally available as I become more secure, and him being a good guest in my home so to speak. We have built trust and vulnerability together. Thank you for helping me see this facet of myself. It touches me to be understood because even if you don't enjoy what he is doing ( I dont know your opinion of it, or if it has hurt you) you see and understand and can speak to it. I don't know why but this makes me emotional.
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Post by charlii on Feb 6, 2022 16:06:51 GMT
Yes I see that now how it makes sense (for you).And not people pleasing. To the other person it just makes you think, 'why withhold that-I don't plan or want to make you uncomfortable' This ofc when it is a minor thing.
Would it ever be a good strategy for you to say things and IF it became unomfortable just tell the other person?
If he didn't answer something or deflected, I would just ask him if it is one of those things and he would say yes he doesn't want to share xyzzy with anyone. And I was fine with those answers bc I knew for whatever reason it was personal to him. And I didn't ask again.
The latest one that he did was exercising.Hard. Never told me he was. I felt it was a self goal, feel better about his problem. But he never shared he was (have a friend that goes to the same gym but he didnt know this friend)
YET for me he would ask me. 1 million questions about my gym, which I freely answered.
This is why in our case, this ending was all so strange. He got that space, understanding that need all along. All he had to do was say it and sometimes I just knew.
I know our ending was kinds of screwed up, but during...I was pretty secure, and whatever his problem is...hopped in the middle for him and made him unable to do a relationship with this problem at the same time. I had some other major life stressors right before, and then the break up so I def got anxious.
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Post by charlii on Feb 6, 2022 16:11:10 GMT
tnr9 I'm amazed because I have never even really thought of this or articulated it, until you described it. Thank you. I love this forum for that reason. This is how I lived for a long long time, and I understand why. I had to because I was in unhealthy relationships where I felt my inner self was under seige. It is very different now with my boyfriend, we can discuss things together to regulate my internal temperature. This is a combination of me becoming more emotionally available as I become more secure, and him being a good guest in my home so to speak. We have built trust and vulnerability together. Thank you for helping me see this facet of myself. It touches me to be understood because even if you don't enjoy what he is doing ( I dont know your opinion of it, or if it has hurt you) you see and understand and can speak to it. I don't know why but this makes me emotional. Can your emotional availability just turn off? Because I feel he was really really doing well. I wasn't analyzing anything at the time. I just would notice it for big and small things, he was opening . Asking advice on things, which he never used to do. Just talking. He was never shy how he felt about me and us. Ever. And would tell me constantly how much I help him, and was always so appreciattive. And then this outside problem hit...I am still not convinced it is his realization about fear intimacy. etc. I am almost sure it is something else, and he said as much (outside problem). But it caused him to beat himself up. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2022 16:28:29 GMT
tnr9 I'm amazed because I have never even really thought of this or articulated it, until you described it. Thank you. I love this forum for that reason. This is how I lived for a long long time, and I understand why. I had to because I was in unhealthy relationships where I felt my inner self was under seige. It is very different now with my boyfriend, we can discuss things together to regulate my internal temperature. This is a combination of me becoming more emotionally available as I become more secure, and him being a good guest in my home so to speak. We have built trust and vulnerability together. Thank you for helping me see this facet of myself. It touches me to be understood because even if you don't enjoy what he is doing ( I dont know your opinion of it, or if it has hurt you) you see and understand and can speak to it. I don't know why but this makes me emotional. Can your emotional availability just turn off? Because I feel he was really really doing well. I wasn't analyzing anything at the time. I just would notice it for big and small things, he was opening . Asking advice on things, which he never used to do. Just talking. He was never shy how he felt about me and us. Ever. And would tell me constantly how much I help him, and was always so appreciattive. And then this outside problem hit...I am still not convinced it is his realization about fear intimacy. etc. I am almost sure it is something else, and he said as much (outside problem). But it caused him to beat himself up. Here's a boundary I have. I will not share my internal process and explain my insecure behaviors to you to facilitate your mind reading. I find it very invasive and I also feel you are attempting to use me in an unsafe way by you asking about my internal process not to understand and support me, but to continue to act out your AP impulse to cross boundaries into his head. I'm not here for that. If I felt it would help you in some way I'd share myself, but it feels very unhealthy to me in this particular circumstance. I'd be enabling you and also crossing my own boundary. I simply shared this in the discussion because I am moved by tnr9's gentle description of an avoidant coping mechanism. I feel seen and understood. I get that this is the same feeling AP types get when someone can understand them, and I don't wish to take that away from anyone ever. But I feel emotional because she sees it is not done to impact the other (positively or negatively). I can engage with that and tune out what you're doing here but I don't want to engage with you in what you are doing. I know it's your thread but also it is a public discussion, and this perspective has been shared with you at length in the comments but you don't seem responsive. I'm not trying to have conflict with you, nor am I trying to hurt you. I'm responding to something that helps me heal on this forum and it's the insight of other insecure people who are doing the hard work to transform and gain insight into themselves and others in a healthy way. It's life changing for me. I will hop off your thread and perhaps start a new one in the supper forum. Please continue your dialog as you see fit, this was an aside not intended to merge with your agenda but definitely joining with tnr9's insight. |
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Post by charlii on Feb 6, 2022 16:39:08 GMT
No problem..you are not hurting me at all.
But sounds like you are mind reading me and my intentions.
I am not avoidant, and if I have a question I usually freely speak. So as I am trying to understand myself and why I do or have done things, and how other people act or react.
This is all new territory for me and the best way to learn, so I thought, was to ask those who share on the board. It actually had nothing to do with him, but rather the style...for myself to know going forward. To understand others as well as myself
There is difference between mind reading and really just wanting to understand how someone else thinks or feels.
I also thought tnr9 had a great insight answer to my question.
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 6, 2022 17:08:11 GMT
tnr9 I'm amazed because I have never even really thought of this or articulated it, until you described it. Thank you. I love this forum for that reason. This is how I lived for a long long time, and I understand why. I had to because I was in unhealthy relationships where I felt my inner self was under seige. It is very different now with my boyfriend, we can discuss things together to regulate my internal temperature. This is a combination of me becoming more emotionally available as I become more secure, and him being a good guest in my home so to speak. We have built trust and vulnerability together. Thank you for helping me see this facet of myself. It touches me to be understood because even if you don't enjoy what he is doing ( I dont know your opinion of it, or if it has hurt you) you see and understand and can speak to it. I don't know why but this makes me emotional. Can your emotional availability just turn off? Because I feel he was really really doing well. I wasn't analyzing anything at the time. I just would notice it for big and small things, he was opening . Asking advice on things, which he never used to do. Just talking. He was never shy how he felt about me and us. Ever. And would tell me constantly how much I help him, and was always so appreciattive. And then this outside problem hit...I am still not convinced it is his realization about fear intimacy. etc. I am almost sure it is something else, and he said as much (outside problem). But it caused him to beat himself up. I think it isn’t turning it off…I think there is a problem with the word you are using…it is self protecting….turning inward to keep from being overwhelmed by another’s boundary infringement. How do you address that going forward? That goes back to my earlier suggestion of learning where you end and where another person begins through therapy. Why? Because it is really, really challenging to do it on your own…especially when you don’t see where you are crossing boundaries because it is normalized for you….just as the need to focus on the other person is. Again….I get it…..because I have done exactly what you are doing. It feels like more knowledge about him, more analyzation will help you going forward…..but….the best thing to do is to turn the focus away from him (super hard I get it) and back to working on you…just you. |
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Post by charlii on Feb 6, 2022 17:31:10 GMT
Last question hopefully lol...So if it is seen as a boundary infringement, how does the questioner (me for example) even realize the infringement when it was really see/meant as just basic convo. Not meaning or even wanting to be intrusive.
An example: A person writes an essay in college and you asked what topic did you write, etc. and the person says they don't feel comfortable saying it. Who would even know that was an infringement to not even get the person feeling to protect
That alone is walking on eggshells trying to figure out if you are overstepping.
Are u saying to just keep doing it and when those things happen just realize it is self protecting (which I believe I was actually doing a good job with minus about 1 month when it all went down orignaally)
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 6, 2022 18:16:47 GMT
Last question hopefully lol...So if it is seen as a boundary infringement, how does the questioner (me for example) even realize the infringement when it was really see/meant as just basic convo. Not meaning or even wanting to be intrusive. An example: A person writes an essay in college and you asked what topic did you write, etc. and the person says they don't feel comfortable saying it. Who would even know that was an infringement to not even get the person feeling to protect That alone is walking on eggshells trying to figure out if you are overstepping. Are u saying to just keep doing it and when those things happen just realize it is self protecting (which I believe I was actually doing a good job with minus about 1 month when it all went down orignaally) What I am saying is….instead of walking on eggshells…take him at his word. If he consistently does not want to share…,that is his right. It is your right however to decide that you do not want a partner who doesn’t want to share….so you end things and find someone who is better suited to your needs. |
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Post by charlii on Feb 6, 2022 18:18:47 GMT
got you  |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 6, 2022 18:21:11 GMT
got you  I hope you do….because at the root of this is a decision you are making to stay with someone who doesn’t match what you are looking for. There are plenty of men out there…keep moving forward until you find one that suits your needs. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2022 19:31:50 GMT
No problem..you are not hurting me at all. But sounds like you are mind reading me and my intentions. I am not avoidant, and if I have a question I usually freely speak. So as I am trying to understand myself and why I do or have done things, and how other people act or react. This is all new territory for me and the best way to learn, so I thought, was to ask those who share on the board. It actually had nothing to do with him, but rather the style...for myself to know going forward. To understand others as well as myself There is difference between mind reading and really just wanting to understand how someone else thinks or feels. I also thought tnr9 had a great insight answer to my question. I'll just say that it comes across as definitely being about him because you asked the question about me and then wrote a whole paragraph about him. So, while it may not be your intention to make me feel uncomfortable sharing with you, I am uncomfortable with what you asked and we just aren't a good fit for the dialog. But I do sincerely wish you the best in your process. |
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Post by charlii on Feb 6, 2022 20:47:53 GMT
got you I hope you do….because at the root of this is a decision you are making to stay with someone who doesn’t match what you are looking for. There are plenty of men out there…keep moving forward until you find one that suits your needs. No..I have decided I am not going back to that in that capacity. The loss of the romantic relationship is a burn. I am moving away from that despite how hard that currently is. We had a very solid friendship before this, and I know he is a good person. I would still like that salvaged someday if possible. Not worried about any men for now:) |
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Post by charlii on Feb 6, 2022 20:48:14 GMT
No problem..you are not hurting me at all. But sounds like you are mind reading me and my intentions. I am not avoidant, and if I have a question I usually freely speak. So as I am trying to understand myself and why I do or have done things, and how other people act or react. This is all new territory for me and the best way to learn, so I thought, was to ask those who share on the board. It actually had nothing to do with him, but rather the style...for myself to know going forward. To understand others as well as myself There is difference between mind reading and really just wanting to understand how someone else thinks or feels. I also thought tnr9 had a great insight answer to my question. I'll just say that it comes across as definitely being about him because you asked the question about me and then wrote a whole paragraph about him. So, while it may not be your intention to make me feel uncomfortable sharing with you, I am uncomfortable with what you asked and we just aren't a good fit for the dialog. But I do sincerely wish you the best in your process. No I was asking in general. I did put the sentences after bc that was my experience about the topic--and he was person I experienced it with. I am not asking him so I asked those with a different mindset than my own to understand it. And that's cool saying you aren't comfortable w the question or dialog. I've never had a problem with that with you or anyone. And thanks. I am getting inching my way there, despite what it may seem like. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2022 18:08:08 GMT
Thank you. Yea it stinks completely. I just am lost. Being called and feeling that you are definitely their EVERYTHING. Eearlier in the night even. And hours later a break up. I keep wondering what the heck was going through his mind that night like the light switch. I never felt him majorly pull away. He always showed up, people pleased.(not good obv).....made sure I was ok and kept so much in. It's obvious he is longing for the partnership but I also now his fear of vulnerablity. We really really close... I guess that is why it happened. I just was curious if they had moments of missing their 'everything'...or they just really want to forgot the pain. This is the 2nd time this happened... The first time I felt he was anxious....(leaning). This time I feel he was dismissing (leaning) bc he blamed me for this (no 'space' after last breakup and I made it worse???) and seemed a little terse for him. I really think me going away over the Christmas and gone longer set him off (I could see he missed me alot). Actually better yet...do they EVER go back to that place..what happened, the feelings, their guilt..even if not right away? I'm not trying to beat you up here charlii... but are you sure that in 4 days you are trying to understand general things and have shifted away from the pain of this post? I'm asking because I do understand the feeling of needing this all to make sense, but I also know that you can't get the relief you are seeking by trying to figure it out this way. tnr9 really is trying to help you see the kinds of questions you could be asking yourself. You haven't answered any questions that she has prompted as a focus- at least not here. Not that you need to. But this is why you're runnning into obstacles getting clarity about him. It just can't be had, not in the way that seems helpful to you. The people responding to you hear understand that even though it's difficult for you to grasp with the pain fresh as it is. |
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